ACT clutch/flywheel (street disk) plus TRZ mount
 

As some of you know about a month if not longer we had the ACT clutch/flywheel street disk out into my speed3. Nevertheless, the clutch currently has 800 miles on it and I started beating on it at about 500.... or so...

The clutch grips extremely well, all gear engagement/disengagement, up-shifts & down-shifts are perfect. However, it's the noise. Very similar to a "chatter" that is making me over-think if the throw-out bearing didn't get screwed up.

When the clutch is pressed it...... it's nice and quiet. The minute the clutch is released, even at idle, it chatters. During initial take off (not launches) from 1st gear it sounds like a tractor.

Note the following:

1. Chatter = rough engagement, not related to release bearing, but the choice of clutch parts, motor mounts, etc. Worst during initial take off in first when taking off gently. Common condition with puck discs regardless of solid or spring center and should be very minor with our street disc and usually improves once clutch is broken in.
2. Idle or decel noise = Gear noise, not related to release bearing, varies with rpm, load, gear selection, but goes away when clutch is fully disengaged. Caused by higher rate dampening spring within the disc, lighter flywheel or other increases in torsional vibrations from engine mods. Harmless but often mis-diagnosed as a release bearing or engine problem.
3. Possible release bearing noise - Occurs at any rpm, load, gear, etc but changes (improves or gets worse) when the clutch pedal is slightly depressed (not necessarily disengaged). Until very recently we sold the stock bearing in all our kits. The new bearing is identical and I haven't seen one failed yet.
4. Clutch arm interference noise - This condition occurs regardless of clutch brand, when the clutch pedal is near or at the floor and the arm hits the top of the pressure plate making a terrible metal scrapping sound. It is caused by the clutch arm and pivot ball being worn and needing replacement.

I am experiencing the first three. While cruising and just barely holding the gas pedal the noise goes away but it varies with rpms. When I engine break- forget, chatter up the moterfucking ass.

I will take some videos hopefully on Monday and post them. From what it seems and been told is that the noise is normal but it seems that it's just too loud.
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Mine does the same thing with my ACT street disk setup. THe clutch chatter is loud but Ive been told that its not a problem.I have about 3k miles on mine and it works great so far. I would not worry about it. There was a writeup about having a light weight flywheel and the loud clutch chatter in the P3 section but that section is gone now.

Thanks buddy I was hoping you'd chime in! I know for a fact the the install was done perfectly right and that the chatter is "normal" due to the ACT clutch/flywheel characteristics.

Just thought I post the following as a reference for others:

The reason it got me worried in the past few days is from what I've read on the roadracingengineering site about the ACT & Centerforce clutch warranty.

Centerforce and ACT Clutch Warranty Info

CHATTER PROBLEMS CAN BE CAUSED BY MANY PROBLEMS. POSSIBLE CAUSES MAY BE AS FOLLOWS:

1. FLYWHEEL HAS EXCESSIVE RUN-OUT.
2. FLY WHEEL WAS NOT RESURFACED BEFORE THE NEW CLUTCH WAS INSTALLED.
3. FLYWHEEL WAS RESURFACED IMPROPERLY OR HAS IMPROPER SURFACE FINISH.
4. FLYWHEEL HAS SEVERE HARD SPOTS OR HOT SPOTS.
5. FLYWHEEL RESURFACED IMPROPERLY (I.E. INCORRECT FLYWHEEL STEP).
6. DAMAGED OR EXCESSIVELY WORN CV JOINTS.
7. BAD U-JOINTS IN DRIVE SHAFT OR U-JOINTS MISALIGNED.
8. EXCESSIVE BACKLASH IN DIFFERENTIAL.
9. EXCESSIVE DRIVE-LINE ANGLE.
10. BAD LEAF SPRINGS, BUSHINGS OR MOUNTS.
11. IMPROPER GEAR RATIO VERSUS TIRE DIAMETER.
12. DEFECTIVE PRESSURE PLATE AND/OR DISC.
13. DISC HAS INADEQUATE OR NO MARCEL (NOT ENOUGH CUSHION BETWEEN THE FRICTION FACINGS).
14. OIL OR GREASE CONTAMINATION ON CLUTCH FACINGS.
15. WORN OR DAMAGED CLUTCH LINKAGE.
16. BENT COVER ASSEMBLY AND/OR DISC .
17. IMPROPERLY TUNED ENGINE.
18. WORN OR DAMAGED ENGINE MOUNTS OR TRANSMISSION MOUNTS.


Obviously, most of the above doesn't apply to me nor you.

However, after hitting up of of the SRT4 forums regarding this "noise" some of the guys that are experiencing what we are, had their clutches installed by the dealer and are experiencing the same. ACTMAN- put worries aside...


Regardless, it's just annoying to have that noise or "chatter" especially when you get into another car like a n/a3 which my buddy has the findenza flywheel and is quiet as stock.

Ya it kinda suxs when you are sitting at a light and your car sounds like a diesel. I notice tho that its not as bad sometimes or Im just getting use to the noise. I know I put a new throw out bearing and a new pilot bearing in mine when the clutch was done so Im sure the noise is just chatter like other people have said.

I can speak to the gear noise issue you are experiencing. We don't normally call the typical gear noise "chatter" since clutch "chatter" usually refers to harsh engagement, and noise is not necessarily associated with that condition.

Gear rattle on the other hand is caused by the engine's torsional vibrations (violent rotational pulses) being transmitted to the gears in the transmission. The main problem is that it is impossible to replicate the torsional dampening of the stock dual mass flywheel with a light weight single mass flywheel or spring centered disc. There are a variety of different gear noises with different characteristics. Each one requires a specific type of dampening to dampen out the vibration.

There is no free lunch to performance. If you like the more responsive lighter flywheel, or turn up the power, it may tend to be a bit noisy. I have written a few pages on the subject that I can email to you if you like on a Word document. Feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions.

Dirk, thanks for posting up on this! I plan on installing your street clutch kit very shortly but would like it quiet as possible. Do you have any suggestions on what we should do?
Would removing the balance shaft help or hurt with the noise? Different gear lube?

Ahh, ACTman, good to see you on this forum. When I first heard the "chatter" or so I thought it was "chatter" I hit up the SRT forums and saw your post regarding this and put all my worries away. I will say though that the "noise" since day one obviously subsided since the clutch did wear in along with the transmission mount.

I still hear it especially at idle but it's not something I'm anal about or give two shits. You couldn't have said it better "There is no free lunch to performance. If you like the more responsive lighter flywheel, or turn up the power, it may tend to be a bit noisy.

The reason I started this thread was sort of an insurance policy if you will just in case the clutch wasn't installed right- although we knew it was.

Regardless, the clutch/flywheel combo is amazing- couldn't be more happier.

Every car is different even if you're using the same product. I know a guy who has the clutch/flywheel on his RX-8 and is nowhere near as loud as it is on the speed3 or some of the SRT4's from what I heard.

If you would like it to be as quiet as possible stay stock because you won't have it quiet any other way around. How would a balance shaft delete help this? If anything, you'll hear and feel much more vibrations after removing your BS especially at high speeds. Gear lube won't be much of significance either.

There are few things the SRT4 guys did to minimize their noise but whatever it was I don't remember.

Another member posted the following which restates what ACTman said:

If you've installed the clutch right and it's a solid hub disc then it's going to be pretty loud, but a sprung hub will still make a good amount of noise too. It's just backlash in the gears rattling against each other in the case. The stiffer springs on the disc transmit more vibration into the geartrain at idle and when there's no load put onto the gears and the result is that annoying rattle. It won't affect your driveability and it should go away when you press the clutch pedal down, since none of the crankshaft pulses will make their way through the clutch to the transmission.

This is the "TOB chatter" that everyone incorrectly describes. Most of the guys on this forum will try to tell you that its the throw-out bearing making that noise, when it's really caused by the reduced mass of the new clutch transmitting more vibration off the crankshaft into the geartrain.

The noise at idle is from the lightend flywheel is not chatter. The sound was always there you just could't here it cause the heavy flywhee masked the soundl. My buddy with Fidanza flywheel has the same noise at idle.

Reason I asked about the BS is although removeing it will deffinately cause more NVH at higher rpm's. The shock load on the flywheel/clutch/trans "may" be lighter at low rpm engaugement. (hopefully that made some sence!)
Also, some gear lubes have additives to reduce shock on gears so also, just wondering if there was one better than another.

Thanks for the reply twelve!

I had the ACT street disc/flywheel installed last week on my MS6. I get the same noise. I'm glad I ran across this thread to ease my worries. I'll just chalk up one more noise on my car that is "normal."

At the end of the day the extra noise is well worth the clutch engagement. No way in the world would I ever want to go back to stock.

Yup, the "noise' is sexy! Shit...fucker sounds like a tractor at normal take offs.

The trany is noisy, I have the TRZ trany mount with stock clutch/flywheel and its makes that terrible gear noise good to know what it is now.

Thanks for the great feedback guys! Personally I didn't find the normal noise with our spring center disc to be that objectionable (and that was the objective). As I said, it is very hard to provide dampening that is as effective as the heavy dual mass flywheel. We have considered a couple different methods to reduce the noise. For instance, we can add a few pounds back to the flywheel or put lighter springs in the disc but we haven't done further testing because with any change comes other tradeoffs. Our flywheel for the MS3 is already a bit heavier than what we normally would produce just to try and reach a good compromise with noise and performance. For you performance junkies, we could easily take another 5 lbs or so out of our existing flywheel for better throttle response but you can expect more noise.

So anyone got some audio of what this all sounds like?

Noise is noise. I didn't buy an ACT clutch and expected (like a pussy) for it to be quiet- I bought it for the performance aspect of it. Do not add more weight and sacrifice the "performance" & "durability" of the clutch for the sake of some noise....if those who are anal about the noise should just stick to a stock car with a stock clutch. Nuff said.

But if you can have you cake and eat it too... We are always testing new things so who knows. I would like to experiment with some different disc dampening rates, etc, but I haven't had time.

I tried answering a PM but I wasn't allowed to since my post count is too low. I guess that is new since I had PM conversations before on here. Oh well, I guess I should be more involved, huh? I usually try to stay pretty quiet unless I feel I have something valuable to offer. Otherwise I end up spending may too much time on forums instead of doing what I should be doing. Then the wife gets upset!

Fixed

Yah i am surprised noone made it very fucking clear the tranny mount ALONE adds alot of noise you dont normaly hear from your tranny, BUT I APPRECIATE THE NOISE !!!!

It reminds me of a mustang tranny sounds like a jet engine and shit, its totally normal. I like hearing that my engine and tranny are solid, the (stock) rear mm as well, takes up alot of vibes, hides them

I have the same noise with my stock clutch.

ACTman, ive been told the pilot bearing that comes with your clutches is the wrong one for MS3/MS6? I have you street clutch/ flywheel kit waiting to be installed. Comments?

Screw the noise take off the fat. I dont know of one mod that has made my vehicle past or present quieter. If we wanted quite cars we would all have prius'.

QFT!

I'm screwing up the courage to go full catless DP.

I haven't heard any complaints about that yet and we have sold quite a few over the last several months. I would definitely like to know if that is the case ASAP so we can provide the right parts to our customers.

Dirk, can you do the same, or better, prices as your distibutors?

I checked out your website, and your prices there are $200+ more than one of your resellers....

Our dealers and distributors often offer discounts that we don't. If I gave better prices than my distributors, then I wouldn't have distributors. Naturally we have discounts for dealers, distributors, and occasional sponsorships (when it makes sense).

Ok, makes sense, thanks!

I love my act clutch and flywheel. I have the street disk and I "chirp" in fourth gear! Thing grabs hard!

Thanks to JumpingJackson we found out the issue on the pilot bearings. It is indeed a screwup on our part. The correct pilot bearing is our part number PB1030, not PB1005. Many apologies guys!

I have not used the act on this car yet however i plan to. I have used them on several other cars, and at take off would get a sequel noise. I was using an un-sprung 6 puck disc. I attributed this to be normal and the clutch holds about 350wtq just fine.

If we have ordered one before you realized this problem any way you can ship us a new pilot bearing?

No problem. Just call up our sales dept at 661-940-7555 or email sales@advancedclutch.com and they should be able to help you.

This is how all vendors should handle their problems!

Thanks for being an example Dirk!

EDIT: I should also say, I will definitely be getting the ACT Clutch & Flywheel package as opposed to the other brands - as soon as I save up that is...

Awesome thanks!

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