Another happy BSD install!

[ChrisK]

So I installed the F2 balance shaft delete and oil pan baffle this weekend along with the spin-on filter conversion kit.

First impressions:

Idle feels exactly the same. No added vibrations.

The only added vibrations seems to come from WOT. But you can't feel it, it's more of a noise. Like the car sounds meaner. It's not anything rattling, just seems to sound more rugged. (might be my imagination).

Complaints:

I hate the fact that the pan seals only with gasket maker, I'm really paranoid about the pan leaking, so I've been checked the oil level and crawling under the car to search for leaks, but so far so good.

The only major complaint, damn car takes like 7 1/2 quarts of oil now! Omg, at $6.99 per quart (Pennzoil Platinum), oil changes are going to be pretty costly.

Only bad thing I can really say about it is that it was kind of a paid to get the pan back on after the baffle was installed. Kept getting hung on the oil pickup. You kind of have to put it on at an angle.


Overall I'm pretty happy with the install, it went pretty smoothly. Not really any HP gain that I can tell, still can't really get on the car, still haven't put the fuel pump internals in and I'm still getting fuel cut.


On a side note, I did the transmission fluid too! And wow, shifts like butter now!

I was going to buy Pennzoil Sycromesh but they only had 2qts of it. So I went with Mobil 1 synthetic 75w-90. Took right at 3 quarts, maybe a little less because I kept spilling it.

Anyway, if you have any questions about any of this I can probably help.

[gsrtype1]

Nice write up! I was going to change my tranny fluid soon how hard is it?

[Frequentflyer]

Nice write up. BTW, where are you buying your Pennzoil Platinum at $6.99 a quart? You're getting taken for a ride without lube. You can buy 5 qt jugs of the stuff at Walmart for about $24.

[phantom6294]

Originally Posted by ChrisK The only major complaint, damn car takes like 7 1/2 quarts of oil now! Omg, at $6.99 per quart (Pennzoil Platinum), oil changes are going to be pretty costly.

It isn't THAT much cheaper, but the 5qt jugs can normally be had for ~$20 at Wal-mart. The qt bottles are just barely over $4. So, 8qts @ $4/qt = $32 versus 8qts @ $7/qt = $56.

Edit: Looks like FrequentFlyer beat me to the punch.

[SharkDiver]

What is the reason for removing the BSD?Is it to help the car rev up faster?

[gsrtype1]

Originally Posted by SharkDiver What is the reason for removing the BSD?Is it to help the car rev up faster?

Yeah it removes rotational mass similar to a light flywheel

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by gsrtype1 Nice write up! I was going to change my tranny fluid soon how hard is it?

Transmission fluid was easy for me. Have a lift. But be carefull. The bolt that "looks" like the fill bolt, isn't the fill bolt haha. Had to pull out the service manual to make sure I was taking the right one out.

The only problem is that I didn't use a funnel or a tube, I was squeezing it in from the bottle, and there isn't much room to turn the bottle up enough. But a funnel or some kind of line running from the top would make it easier.

Originally Posted by Frequentflyer Nice write up. BTW, where are you buying your Pennzoil Platinum at $6.99 a quart? You're getting taken for a ride without lube. You can buy 5 qt jugs of the stuff at Walmart for about $24.

Yeah I noticed that when I went to walmart to pick up an extra qt. Autozone screwed me hard.

[phantom6294]

Originally Posted by SharkDiver What is the reason for removing the BSD?Is it to help the car rev up faster?

Originally Posted by gsrtype1 Yeah it removes rotational mass similar to a light flywheel

There also seems to be increasing evidence that the balance shaft is a culprit in a number of engine failures.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by gsrtype1 Yeah it removes rotational mass similar to a light flywheel

correct. Like I said though, power increase is minimal, But hopefully this is a safe mod that keeps some drag off of our crank and hopefully will take some stress off of the rods.

[94jedi]

how much does it actually weigh? does it seem to you like it's significant enough, at speed, to contribute to rod snapping?

[mrlilguy157]

i have a baffle and BSD in the for sale section, for sale, if anyone is interested.

[socks]

the balance shaft assembly itself is heavy. but thats not all rotational mass that your losing...

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by Speed3shon the balance shaft assembly itself is heavy. but thats not all rotational mass that your losing...

Yeah the thing weights like 20 lbs. But rotating assembly isn't that much.

[socks]

and it does hold its own oil, so it is well lubricated rotating mass....

[kingpin748]

Originally Posted by phantom6294 There also seems to be increasing evidence that the balance shaft is a culprit in a number of engine failures.

Please post your source.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by 94jedi how much does it actually weigh? does it seem to you like it's significant enough, at speed, to contribute to rod snapping?

I'm sure that the balance shaft isn't the only culprit (if it is one at all, no one knows, it's just speculation). But less drag on the rotating assembly is a plus.


Also the trucks with the 2.3 (I think ranger and b-series) shares the same block (variation) and doesn't have the balance shaft. But correct me if I'm wrong. Just took that from this forum somewhere.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by Speed3shon and it does hold its own oil, so it is well lubricated rotating mass....

which is also another issue. It's oil that doesn't get changed when you change your oil.

I probably poured 3/4 of a qt out of that thing.

[phillyb]

awesome thread. i've been thinking about doing this for my next oil change.
i know some people are concerned with removing the bs saying it's there for a reason. can anyone elaborate on this please?
it's there to balance something; does removing it lead to shorter engine life?
or something?

[phantom6294]

Originally Posted by phillyb awesome thread. i've been thinking about doing this for my next oil change. i know some people are concerned with removing the bs saying it's there for a reason. can anyone elaborate on this please? it's there to balance something; does removing it lead to shorter engine life? or something?

I'm no expert... but 4-cylinder engines have a natural secondary imbalance. The larger the displacement (and generally the larger/heavier the pistons and relatively long strokes) the more pronounced this effect becomes. This is why the larger displacement 4-cylinders have balance shafts, and often heavy and/or dual-mass flywheels. The balance shaft is used to help counter act the imbalance. So, the balance shaft is partly to reduce the NVH because the average joe doesn't want his new car vibrating like a... well, use your imagination.

There are numerous cars with numerous engines where a balance shaft removal is a common modification. In theory, if the engine isn't 'as balanced' it would put more stress on the engine, or more specifically the engine mounts, but I would imagine the common mod of a rear engine mount would have more affect on the engine. If you're going to keep your car stock or very light mods (intake only for example) I would just leave the balance shaft alone. If your going for more moderate or heavy mods, get rid of the balance shaft.

[AndyMS3]

EDIT: nice post phantom.

[phillyb]

Originally Posted by phantom6294 I'm no expert... but 4-cylinder engines have a natural secondary imbalance. The larger the displacement (and generally the larger/heavier the pistons and relatively long strokes) the more pronounced this effect becomes. This is why the larger displacement 4-cylinders have balance shafts, and often heavy and/or dual-mass flywheels. The balance shaft is used to help counter act the imbalance. So, the balance shaft is partly to reduce the NVH because the average joe doesn't want his new car vibrating like a... well, use your imagination. There are numerous cars with numerous engines where a balance shaft removal is a common modification. In theory, if the engine isn't 'as balanced' it would put more stress on the engine, or more specifically the engine mounts, but I would imagine the common mod of a rear engine mount would have more affect on the engine. If you're going to keep your car stock or very light mods (intake only for example) I would just leave the balance shaft alone. If your going for more moderate or heavy mods, get rid of the balance shaft.

fuck light mods...
also, i have three mounts installed...so then i hope this wouldn't be too much of an issue. can someone else please chime in...i'd really like to get this 17 pound thing out of my fucking engine...kthnx

[phantom6294]

FWIW, here are two good Wikipedia articles on this subject:

Balance shaft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Balance_shaft

Engine balance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Engine_balance

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by phillyb fuck light mods... also, i have three mounts installed...so then i hope this wouldn't be too much of an issue. can someone else please chime in...i'd really like to get this 17 pound thing out of my fucking engine...kthnx

What you wanting to know?

about extra vibrations? or reliability?

I'm gonna go ahead a say it. All these blown engine threads are funny. It's always someone with a MBC and no tuning or meth. Or a cracked oil filter housing or missing drain plug. Yes there are some cases where a stock motor goes. But seriously, the number is still really low.

If an engine blows, more than likely you will here about it on a forum. You never see threads like "I'm full bolts ons and running great!" or "My car has 75000 miles with no issues". because people don't sign up for forums to tell you that there car is doing great, but they will sign up in a heart beat to tell you they blew a motor.

Now with that said, hopefully the mazda engine gods will not blow my motor tomorrow for saying this.

As far as vibrations go.

If you have 3 mounts already, you will probably not notice or even care about the added vibrations you will get from deleted the balance shaft. I only have the TRZ poly rear mount and I can barely tell a difference. In like 3 days I will not even remember what it felt like before the BSD.

[phillyb]

yeah...i'm not worried about doing bsd and my engine blowing...i meant more along the lines of reliability and engine life...or how well it runs...
fuck it, i'll probably be doing this mod

[Lex]

Putting 1 and 2 together here in terms of failures and the BSD ... It seems this engine has quite a bit of crank walk (or lateral movement of the crank). If the crank moves too far, the alignment and change of alignment with the BS can cause some problems. I am quite convinced that MOST of the failures we've seen are defects from the factory where the rotating assembly locks up. Whether the BS is to blame or not is still unknown.

Good write-up Chris, glad to hear the vibrations aren't bad.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by phillyb yeah...i'm not worried about doing bsd and my engine blowing...i meant more along the lines of reliability and engine life...or how well it runs... fuck it, i'll probably be doing this mod

I don't think anyone can for sure answer this. Because no one, that I know of, has had it for a long time. Our cars are still new, the most miles I've seen so far is like 75000. Maybe some have more?

I can say that I owned a dsm and had both balance shafts removed. And it lasted a while. But it did die, and it wasn't because of the balance shafts, it was because it was a dsm haha.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by Lex Putting 1 and 2 together here in terms of failures and the BSD ... It seems this engine has quite a bit of crank walk (or lateral movement of the crank). If the crank moves too far, the alignment and change of alignment with the BS can cause some problems. I am quite convinced that MOST of the failures we've seen are defects from the factory where the rotating assembly locks up. Whether the BS is to blame or not is still unknown. Good write-up Chris, glad to hear the vibrations aren't bad.

Thanks!

[phillyb]

lol at the dsm comment...hahahaha

[mlassek]

what was the GL rating on the mobil1 75-90 you used? GL3 or GL4?

[ChrisK]

The only thing it said was that in was compatible with GL-5 vehicles. It wasn't very clear on that.

But the owners manual said GL-4 or GL-5 can be used so I figured it was ok.

And if not, it won't stay in there long, was planning on ordering some good stuff.

Doesn't seem like there is much difference between gl-4 and gl-5.

Taken from Wiki :

Wikipedia (Links)

Gear_oil

API GL-4, oils for various conditions - light to heavy. They contain up to 4.0% effective antiscuffing additives. Designed for bevel and hypoid gears which have small displacement of axes, the gearboxes of trucks, and axle units. Recommended for non-synchronized gearboxes of US trucks, tractors and buses and for main and other gears of all vehicles. These oils are basic for synchronized gearboxes, especially in Europe.
API GL-5, oils for severe conditions. They contain up to 6.5% effective antiscuffing additives. The general application of oils in this class are for hypoid gears having significant displacement of axes. They are recommended as universal oils to all other units of mechanical transmission (except gearboxes). Oils in this class, which have special approval of vehicle manufacturers, can be used in synchronized manual gearboxes only. API GL-5 oils can be used in limited slip differentials if they correspond to the requirements of specification MIL-L-2105D or ZF TE-ML-05. In this case the designation of class will be another, for example API GL-5+ or API GL-5 LS.

[phantom6294]

Originally Posted by mlassek what was the GL rating on the mobil1 75-90 you used? GL3 or GL4?

I believe Mobil 1 only makes a GL-5, but their website indicates it can be used where GL-4 is called for. Also, to pre-empt it.. a GL-5 shouldn't have any effect on the tranny synchros. If anything, one might get a little LSD chatter.

Originally Posted by ChrisK But the owners manual said GL-4 or GL-5 can be used so I figured it was ok.

I believe the manual says GL-4 or GL-5 for the regular 3 but calls for GL-4 in the MS3. I'd venture this is because the MS3 has the LSD and nothing to do with synchros.

[ms3=evokilla]

Good write up. And good info on trans fluids

[meatball84]

ive been curious about this delete. is there any good how too's for doing this?

[ChrisK]

There are a few floating around, don't have a link for you.

But it's pretty easy to do, but it's messy. plan on getting oil in your hair and mouth, especially if you're doing it on your back. And you will probably need another person to help get the balance shaft assembly out, thing weights a lot. As you unbolt it, it falls out. So it would help to have someone hold it up while you unbolt it.

Basicly the steps are:

1) Drain oil

2) Remove oil pan. Lots of 10mm bolts and ~four 8mm bolts going from timing cover to oil pan.

3) pry oil pan at the pry points, using a pry bar or big flat head screwdriver. (you'll see notches on the pan to pry from, one on front, one on back.

4) remove oil pickup tube. (black tube that goes to the pan)

5) remove balance shaft assembly, 4 bolts. Oil will come out of it!

6) You'll notice that the BSD kit uses one of the bolt holes that the balance shaft use to screw into. Install the kit, tighten it down.

7) Re-install oil pick up

8) Clean the oil pan very well with some degreaser and wash it out. The hard part is getting the old RTV gasket off. Make sure you get it ALL off. You don't want any leaks.

9) Apply a good bead of RTV Gasket maker, (I used Grey RTV, looks stock and is oil and high temp resistant)

10) reinstall pan, torque everything to spec.

11) fill her up with oil. Takes 7qts or so now. Just check it and make sure you don't over fill.



But most kits you buy come with better instructions. But thats just showing you how simple it is. Hardest part is getting everything clean and all the old gasket junk off.

I bought the kit from Darkstar Motorsports.

It's the F2 kit I believe.

[slo4now]

Did you remove the center ring gear that drives the BS or did you just leave it in there?
And if you did leave it in there does it move around in there or not?

I might be doing this mod in the near future.

[JimmyMac]

Originally Posted by ChrisK There are a few floating around, don't have a link for you. But it's pretty easy to do, but it's messy. plan on getting oil in your hair and mouth, especially if you're doing it on your back. And you will probably need another person to help get the balance shaft assembly out, thing weights a lot. As you unbolt it, it falls out. So it would help to have someone hold it up while you unbolt it. Basicly the steps are: 1) Drain oil 2) Remove oil pan. Lots of 10mm bolts and ~four 8mm bolts going from timing cover to oil pan. 3) pry oil pan at the pry points, using a pry bar or big flat head screwdriver. (you'll see notches on the pan to pry from, one on front, one on back. 4) remove oil pickup tube. (black tube that goes to the pan) 5) remove balance shaft assembly, 4 bolts. Oil will come out of it! 6) You'll notice that the BSD kit uses one of the bolt holes that the balance shaft use to screw into. Install the kit, tighten it down. 7) Clean the oil pan very well with some degreaser and wash it out. The hard part is getting the old RTV gasket off. Make sure you get it ALL off. You don't want any leaks. 8) Apply a good bead of RTV Gasket maker, (I used Grey RTV, looks stock and is oil and high temp resistant) 9) reinstall pan, torque everything to spec. 10) fill her up with oil. Takes 7qts or so now. Just check it and make sure you don't over fill. But most kits you buy come with better instructions. But thats just showing you how simple it is. Hardest part is getting everything clean and all the old gasket junk off. I bought the kit from Darkstar Motorsports. It's the F2 kit I believe.

Did you forget to put the 4)oil pickup tube back on?

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by JimmyMac Did you forget to put the 4)oil pickup tube back on?

yep sure did haha.

Thanks

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by slo4now Did you remove the center ring gear that drives the BS or did you just leave it in there? And if you did leave it in there does it move around in there or not? I might be doing this mod in the near future.

I left the ring gear. It doesn't move around like side to side or anything, it's pressed on.

Plus only way to get it off is to use a Dremel or some other cutting tool. Screw that, anytime you cut something like that, metal flakes and shavings are going to go everywhere, even some you can't see. So all of that stuff is being sprayed into your block as your cutting it off.

[LBV]

Plus no one knows if the ring gear has an effect on the cranks balance, so best to leave it in I figure.

[802MS3]

Chris, how long would you say the whole process took? The shop I had mine done at told me that it is a 5 hour job to remove the oil pan and what not.