Bad News on the Medieval PMM V2...

[Arrowpoint]

Originally Posted by phantomspeed3 So what would be the best recommendation on the mounts then?

There's lots of differing opinion on that. But all the reading I have done seems to point to the TRZ for reliability. But it seems to be pot luck as to how much vibration/noise you will experience.

[Obey the Speed]

Originally Posted by Arrowpoint There's lots of differing opinion on that. But all the reading I have done seems to point to the TRZ for reliability. But it seems to be pot luck as to how much vibration/noise you will experience.

Dont think that TRZ makes the Passenger side mount. but yeah their other mounts (tranny and rear) have received nothing but good/great reviews.

[phantomspeed3]

so there is lots of noise and vibration from replacing the mounts??

[Arrowpoint]

Originally Posted by Kinavo Dont think that TRZ makes the Passenger side mount. but yeah their other mounts (tranny and rear) have received nothing but good/great reviews.

Correct. I took his question to be aftermarket mounts in general. I have over 9000 miles on TRZ set and the oem passenger mount with no issues. I check them regularly and there is no deforming of the bushings and noise/vibes have not changed since the day I installed them.

so there is lots of noise and vibration from replacing the mounts??

Some claim to have very little noise and/or vibes, other think the NVH is overwhelming. Mine is fairly noisy, not too much vibration. At any rate it's worth it to me to have a somewhat solid drivetrain which I am confident will handle the extra torque that my mods and tuning will apply to it as well as the vastly improved shifting, almost no wheel hop, and reduced torque steer.

[phantomspeed3]

oh wow really? looks like the pros outweigh the cons and you're talking me into it, how much do they run?

[Arrowpoint]

I can't remember exactly what I paid for them. I think it was around $170. US for the set. They were, are one of the least expensive mounts you can buy. Just go to the vendors forums and see who has them at the best price. There are how to's with really good installation instructions on the site which you can search for. You will be impressed with the improvements from these, but I can't tell you whether or not the NVH will be ok for you.

[phantomspeed3]

Originally Posted by Arrowpoint I can't remember exactly what I paid for them. I think it was around $170. US for the set. They were, are one of the least expensive mounts you can buy. Just go to the vendors forums and see who has them at the best price. There are how to's with really good installation instructions on the site which you can search for. You will be impressed with the improvements from these, but I can't tell you whether or not the NVH will be ok for you.

NVH?

[Arrowpoint]

I think it 's Noise,Vibration , in Hertz. It's a unit of measurment to guage the noise and vibration levels transferred by the motor mount as I understand it, but it is just a shorter way of saying noise and vibration.

[phantomspeed3]

oh i gotcha, getting all technical on me haha, torque increases from the mounts ya?

[gtlaw]

Originally Posted by phillyb i have the top speed passenger mount. it's still listed on darkstar's site. don't know if he has any in stock Mazda 3 Front Passenger Motor Mount

how do you like it?
I have one here I'm waiting to install. I would like to get that cp-e trans mount so I could do them both at the same time

[phantomspeed3]

torque gains?

[Arrowpoint]

torque gains?

No not torque gains persay. The mounts help recover some torque that is wasted moving the motor around inside of the large, soft bushings of the stock mounts. This movement is also what damages the stock mounts and causes what is known as drivetrain lash. Drivetrain lash is what occurs when the engine moves around causing the drivetrain componant's positions to change in relation to each other. This causes inconsistant gear shifting and uneven wear on parts. Aftermarket mounts that have the smaller, harder bushings allow less movment so that energy that was moving the engine around is now applied to the wheels. Lash is also reduced since the DT componants are now somewhat fixed in relation to each other. The downside of the harder,smaller bushings is that they have less sound dampening properties than the soft rubber stock mounts allowing more sound and vibration to pass through the frame into the chassis causing more noise and vibration in the passenger compartment.

[badams118]

I loved the TRZ trans mount functionality, but the NVH was ultimately too much for me. I wish they had had an option for something like a 70 duro busing in the plate, and I might have kept it.

[fbpem1]

the softer a mount is the more prone to failure it is.

[badams118]

I don't think it's as simple as that. I believe that a well engineered soft mount could be perfectly strong enough to handle a 400whp engine. Low NVH + strength may not be easy, but I know it can be done.

[phillyb]

Originally Posted by gtlaw how do you like it? I have one here I'm waiting to install. I would like to get that cp-e trans mount so I could do them both at the same time

you won't notice a difference. it doesn't vibe more. it doesn't really do anything, it's just in there for my peace of mind

[fbpem1]

Originally Posted by badams118 I don't think it's as simple as that. I believe that a well engineered soft mount could be perfectly strong enough to handle a 400whp engine. Low NVH + strength may not be easy, but I know it can be done.

really are you sure? drive a swapped honda w/ hasport mounts? they vibrate its what it does.

also i fyou want to go into the swap mounts for v8 cars, those motors have different movements than a fwd car.

it actually is as simple as that in all honestly.

[badams118]

There are soft mounts out there that have gone 10s of thousands of miles without failure. You don't have to have a solid mount to prevent failure. I just don't buy it, and the fact that there are non-solid mounts out there that are holding up just fine doesn't support your assertion.

I'd even say that a poorly engineered solid mount could be more failure prone than a well engineered 50 duro bushing mount. Design is the biggest determining factor, IMO.

[phantomspeed3]

so basically its gonna improve your acceleration with these mounts because there isn't any shaking under the hood just straight up power to the wheels from the motor not getting wasted on stock mounts

[badams118]

Correct. Any energy going into flexing the mounts is lost to the wheels.

[phantomspeed3]

well i definately need to get some of them then

[fbpem1]

something that moves = something that wears

less movement = less wear

what don't you get about that, its as stupid simple as it gets.

[Darksun280]

I agree with who ever says the opposite of what Ronnie says cause Ronnies always wrong.

[phantomspeed3]

who's ronnie lol

[badams118]

Originally Posted by fbpem1 something that moves = something that wears less movement = less wear what don't you get about that, its as stupid simple as it gets.

You're being obtuse. Stupid is assuming that just because it doesn't move means it doesn't break. Stupid is also assuming that just because it moves means that it is going to fail faster than something that doesn't. If you don't understand that it is as much about materials & function as movement, then maybe you should ask a high school physics student to explain it to you.

[fbpem1]

if thats the 100% truth then i would concede but the issue is its not...

What looks good on paper and by your bench research or whatever it is you do, or have done in the past. Just because it sounds good dosn't mean it is good.

Take a look at all the top import mount companies, its proven time and time and time agian the higher rated bushings or solids will ALWAYS outlast anything lesser to help "with comfort" if your modifying a car take the good with the bad that the crap thing about well...everything nothing is perfect nothing is as you want it.

Now maybe thats just fine and dandy for you who dosn't drive his car hard or whatever, but you know most people are going to, a softer bushing is taking a hit for performance of said part and making it better for "daily driving" IMO suck it up or leave it alone.

so you think that a soft bushing can take abuse and still be fine? look at it this way, a softer bushing DOES move thats what it does, if that didn't happen then why would they make aftermarket bushing kits for them that are hard as rocks, lessen movement, if you were to put the same kind of bushing in what would it matter? it wouldn't you would be doing all that work for nothing at all.

If you upgrade a part UPGRADE it don't concede performance to comfort thats stupid to do by any company and i tell you everytime they will get bit by it. Well aside from maybe here because thats all you people seem to care about is comfort.

well back to the mount, if you have movement, be it good bad indifferent, its going to wear out and get softer, over time till it fails, i have never in my life worn out a hasport mount on a honda, or broken one, the ONLY time i have broken anything releated to a motor mount on a honda was the block broke from overmachining on the timing cover side, under huge stress from slicks that were way too big.

throughout that ramble and rant is your rebuttal but of course i'll be wrong agian because aparently i'm not as educated as you. i love how everyone here is an expert in everything, and why some peoples words are taken as gold when it shouldn't be, and when there are people who really know what their talking about get ignored becuase they arn't in the spotlight of the forum with their builds and so on and so forth.

i'm done with this thread say what you want.

/unsubscribed.

[badams118]

"My anecdotal evidence proves otherwise, so I am going to unsub & QQ."

Ok...

[aviator79]

Originally Posted by medieval Honestly this is horrible. I can not rely on my employees to do anything right. The first few were rushed out the door and built by my employees. After I finished the soildworks model I turned the prints over to my employees and headed to visit my ill mother.I have had it with them and will make them myself. Give me a few days.

Wow. Maybe hire new employees. Ever heard of building a test jig? man-o-man.
Why dont you all get the TT front engine mount. You can then see what it is like to buy a part that fits the first time. Every part the send fits the first time. Its not a new concept. Think about how many planes would be falling out of the sky if midieval started making parts for them? scary...
midieval not to bash, but you brought it on yourself...

[steven88]

so I still haven't received my medieval PMM yet

[Arrowpoint]

Originally Posted by fbpem1 something that moves = something that wears less movement = less wear what don't you get about that, its as stupid simple as it gets.

Truth!

[TRU-BOOST]

+1. Sorry but its fact. Softer is more prone to fail...always !! Some model cars can get away with it based on the number of mounts they have, the placement of those mounys, and the power they make. It has been proven time and time again on this car that a soft squishy mount will fail. It has happened to every single company that produces an mount for this car.... Except TRZ. Not trying to pick another fight here. Smaller, harder bushings get the job done more reliably every time.

[badams118]

Like I said, a good design can overcome including a bushing. The idea that you have to have a solid mount to have reliability is only proof of lack of engineering skill.

[steven88]

Bio, any news on the updated PMM?

[bioevolve]

Nothing yet, been checking the mail everyday.

[bioevolve]

It's Saturday and nothing yet. Guess they are still being made.

[steven88]

Originally Posted by bioevolve It's Saturday and nothing yet. Guess they are still being made.

bio i got news from medieval directly....he said the bushings will arrive tuesday and should ship out the same day....he said I should get mine by friday

its still pretty lame if you ask me....I mean first week he told me "yes it is being boxed RIGHT NOW"....then following week he said "sorry for the delay but your engine mount is being made right now and should go out in 1 day, we just need to follow the list of people who bought them and your one of the last ones"......then he didn't respond to any more e-mails until last night...he says "we don't have any bushings so it will be tuesday for an update"

gah....stick to one update and stop changing it...its either shipped or its not...haha

[filphil]

I've had the exact same thing happen to me... However, I DID GET A SET OF SIDE MOUNTS. But because of all the issues Bio and Aaron went through, plus the tossing of excuses from one end of the field to the other, I talked to DSMS for a refund with these mounts.

[darkstarmotorsports]

Originally Posted by filphil I've had the exact same thing happen to me... However, I DID GET A SET OF SIDE MOUNTS. But because of all the issues Bio and Aaron went through, plus the tossing of excuses from one end of the field to the other, I talked to DSMS for a refund with these mounts.

filphil,

I wish you did keep those mounts. I received them on Friday from you, and we installed them on local a customer's car today. They performed FLAWLESSLY with very little vibration and a very satisfied customer.


As for everyone who is waiting for Medieval to send you your mounts, please email them @
sales@medievalllc.com

[filphil]

That's good to hear. I'm glad the mounts got to you safe and sound. Like I mentioned to you in one of my emails, if aaron and bio hadn't have had their issues I probably would have installed them no problem since their posts on these forums were the main reason I considered them. I have no hard feelings for you as a vendor since you've given me very little trouble except for the "field" problem I posted earlier. I do understand that it's been very hectic lately, and you've been handling everything professionally.

You guys are still good IMO, but there are others who think differently.

[medieval]

FilPhil,

I understand your concerns. It has been a tough road the last month with this passenger side mount recall. As we grow here we have ran into a few hurdles recently. One being the V1 passenger side mount. With the redesign out and then Bio's bracket issue that really pushed me over the top. Medieval as a company is only as strong as its weakest employee and with the bracket issue I had to make a difficult decision that I wise I didn't have to. On Monday I let 2 of the fab guys go! This had to be done because both did not follow simple procedures which resulted in Bio's recent issue. One must remember that when an employee doesn’t follow procedure and a parts fitment is compromised it is I that has to answer to it.
As a company it takes years to build a quality reputation and micro seconds to destroy it. Its tough to swallow, but that is reality.
With Medieval now being 2 employees short I have found myself back building product. I wish this was not the case, but until we can find some quality fabricators that follow the operations on our jigs it will be myself doing most of the fab work. What this means is that me personally will have far less time for new product development and forum interaction.
To help with forum questions we have decided to look for a forum rep to help answer questions and offer tech support. Right now we are telling people to email us directly to get an answer to any questions related to our product line.

sales@medievalllc.com

As for those that are waiting on their side mounts, the remaining batch will ship out next week once we receive our bushing order on Tuesday.
As it stands Bio is the only one that has had a bracket issue with the new mount. A new one is headed to Bio .
I want to thank everyone that has been so patience with this side mount issue. Medieval has addressed it with a correct design and everyone will be taken care of.

In the near future we will be doing a few things differently to ensure these type of mistakes do not happen again.