Blown Motor

[7mileshome]

I'm making this thread to help anyone interested on what NOT to do if going big turbo, and because I want to stay away from company bashing or people blaming.

Alright so I just finished adding a GT2871 to my car, was not running right due to
certain factors. Read here... XcelXL troubles


For whatever reason, after I installed the xcelXL,
the car would not stay on. So assuming the problem was that the car
was not getting enough fuel, I added more.
I was able to get the car running by adding fuel through the MAF
table in the Standback. Looked like this..



Took the car out to dial in the fuel settings. Had every gauge possible open and running.
On the SB I was monitoring...


On the dashhawk I was monitoring Knock, stft, boost, and afr.

I also had my prosport boost, AEM wideband, and prosport oil pressure gauge.

I was in 4th Gear, around 2900 RPM, Floored it and around 5000 rpm i felt a clunk, and saw my rpms at 0. I was still rolling, so i pushed the clutch in and tried to start it again, and nothing. I was watching my fuel pressure and right before the car turned off, it was over 2200 psi.
AFR was between 15-16
Boost was 10-11 lbs.

Got CEL for random misfire, and 2 other unknowns.

I got to the side of the road and the car would not even crank. Im assuming that I bent or broke a rod. There is some oil on the drive shaft and on the subframe near the passenger side wheel, and Im taking the oil pan off now, hopefully I will be able to see more.

I think that no matter how much fuel I would have added, it would never have been enough
to work with the larger maf housing. Im going to get the engine apart, take some pictures, and help someone else from blowing their motor.

**Update** Some typical pictures from a blown MZR motor!

Peices of piston and block


This is the weakest rod, although the other 3 rods were bent like mofos


RIP a 27,000 mile engine


FWIW, that shit pulled hard!! Can't wait to get it up an running right! Got to Build a Block!

[felt]

15-16AFR while on BOOST is really really lean isn't it?

[7mileshome]

yes... killing time for a weak rod.

[AFcadet]

yes^^^

[felt]

That sucks dude, really really sucks, to see your other thread about the Xcel MAF flashes to now this?

Best of luck to you.

[Lex]

Sorry for the loss. It seems the flash did not take and the larger MAF resulted in the car being lean which popped the motor.

Did you not notice it was lean before getting on it?

[phillyb]

why the fuck were your afrs so fucking lean?

[Lex]

Originally Posted by phillyb why the fuck were your afrs so fucking lean?

Read my above post.

[phillyb]

sorry lex. i don't read.
lol.
have other people with big maf flash encountered this?
i don't think so.

[Fagwagon]

hmm, how would one make sure that the reflash actually did "take" from cp-e? That sucks and indeed sounds as if the flash wasnt done properly id call them up.

[felt]

Originally Posted by phillyb sorry lex. i don't read. lol. have other people with big maf flash encountered this? i don't think so.

I'm not 7mileshome so I can't directly speak for him but from my observations when following his CP-E Flash thread, it seemed like his ECU didn't take on the CP-E flashes, in particular the Big Maf flash.

[phillyb]

yeah, regarding that thread that seems like what happened...i guess...

[djuosnteisn]

You'll know if the maf doesn't take, cause the car won't start and run, which was 7mile's first issue.

He knew to add fuel to get it to idle, and that was definitely a step in the right direction, just sucks that the transition to a 3.25" maf is around 70% and 7mile only scaled it 15% or so.

Going wot like that was a huge no no though. I am super sorry about what happened.

My guess is if there is oil anywhere, prepare yourself for a hole in the block.

[gsrtype1]

Sorry to hear man! 15-16AFR WAY to lean at WOT did you realize you where that lean while you were flooring it? where you messing with timing? you will get random misfire when you advance your timing to much to quick.

[spnkr21]

OMG Did this just happen today? Why the hell would you add that much fuel and then stay on it that lean? You were at 5grand? You added fuel in every single cell which is closed loop and open loop. Your fuel trims were prolly way out of wack.... What other signs did you need???? This was a stock block too right? I love how Dizzi9 thanked your OP

[felt]

Originally Posted by spnkr21 OMG Did this just happen today? Why the hell would you add that much fuel and then stay on it that lean? You were at 5grand? You added fuel in every single cell which is closed loop and open loop. Your fuel trims were prolly way out of wack.... What other signs did you need???? This was a stock block too right? I love how Dizzi9 thanked your OP

I thanked the OP as well, so what's your point?

Give him a break, he's just trying to prevent this from happening to anyone else.

[spnkr21]

My B bro

[djuosnteisn]

Welp, time to go forged

[FreeFlyFreak]

Wow, someone with more Fail than me.

Sorry to hear.
I feel your pain.

But I have to say..........

Big MAF. Car wont start.
Normal SRI and OEM maf, car starts.
Back with big MAF add a little fuel with standback.
Car starts.....then....
WOT runs!!!
WTF?????

I will probably sound like an ass to say this in your moment of loss, but..........

Unless you are not telling all the steps you followed in your posts, you skipped a few important ones between getting the car to actually start with the big MAF housing and doing a WOT run.
Baby Steps were needed.

(Neil Armstrong voice... crackle crackle ) "One small step for your right foot, One giant leap of the rod from your block"

[7mileshome]

If you are wondering why I would go Wot when the car was lean is because I had the Afr down to normal while crusing. Going wot was the only way I could see what the afr would be at Wot. So I could tune it better.
And Dustin, you are the man, thanks for trying to help understand what was going on, you make this forum awesome.
/BJ
LoL

[djuosnteisn]

I'll still help as much as i can man!

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by 7mileshome I'm making this thread to help anyone interested on what NOT to do if going big turbo

Originally Posted by 7mileshome If you are wondering why I would go Wot when the car was lean is because I had the Afr down to normal while crusing. Going wot was the only way I could see what the afr would be at Wot.

The key to preventing anyone else from repeating this problem, is dont be in a rush, take baby steps.

There is a huge difference, and many intermediate steps, between Closed Loop Cruising and Open Loop WOT.
What LTFT's were you seeing during the Closed loop Cruising you did?

Hope you get it fixed up without too much trouble and expense.
I am REALLY not trying to take a dig at you, just help prevent others from repeating the mistake.
Just as I tried to prevent them from repeating my "brake job" mistake. LOL
We are only human, mistakes WILL be made, some more expensive than others......
Good Luck, and thanks for posting, so others can avoid following in your footsteps.

[cudaman]

Originally Posted by FreeFlyFail The key to preventing anyone else from repeating this problem, is dont be in a rush, take baby steps. There is a huge difference, and many intermediate steps, between Closed Loop Cruising and Open Loop WOT. What LTFT's were you seeing during the Closed loop Cruising you did? Hope you get it fixed up without too much trouble and expense. I am REALLY not trying to take a dig at you, just help prevent others from repeating the mistake. Just as I tried to prevent them from repeating my "brake job" mistake. LOL We are only human, mistakes WILL be made, some more expensive than others...... Good Luck, and thanks for posting, so others can avoid following in your footsteps.

I'm gonna have to agree with FreeFly here. When you start going into open loop, and building boost, you have to take those baby steps. WOT should be days away after watching all the parameters when boost builds from 0-5, 5-7, 7-10, etc., all the way up. Tune it as you go and don't forget for a cold-weather tune and warm-weather tune now that the weather is changing.

Sad to hear the story though. Report back on whether you have aerated your block. Oil on the under-belly pan and driveline is not a good sign. Sounds like Mr. Piston has left the room.

[802MS3]

soo um does CP-e test the ECU's somehow before theyre shipped out? what exactly happened here?

[Darksun280]

Your ecu didn't have the big maf flash on it. You handled that entire situation horribly. Why didn't you try putting back on your stock size intake to see if the car acted normal before thinking that adding fuel to a car that can't start and stay running was the best solution? Your anxiousness to go big turbo and be fast just cost you anywhere from 3-7K.

[gsrtype1]

Man it really must sucks your situation but you should not have gone WOT when your car was running funny after the flash man. When tuning ALWAYS stay on the side of caution.

[cageyvet]

I'm sorry you didnt get to push this motor as hard as you had planned and that you are up and running as quickly as possible, lmk if there's any way i can lend a hand.

[mike8748]

That sucks!
I feel for you man.
Good luck w/ the rebuild.

[SSinstaller]

This sucks..

With afr's at 15~16 at idle, you never should have even taken it on the road. Going WOT was just asking for trouble...

You could have ran the car much safer by using the MAF Xfer to scale the MAF output up until the OEM wideband matched your AEM wideband at idle... You would have ben perfectly safe to drive it around like that and just stay out of bbost until the underlying issue was corrected..

[cpolly69]

with those kinda numbers in the maf table i'm shocked the sensor functioned well enough for the car to run - i wonder what you trims looked like while cruising before you went wot/boom
you realize, even if you got the car to function that way that after a few driving sessions the ecu would have learned it's way around the scaled maf in closed loop

as i said in the other thread tho - you make the 2nd person now that i've seen that their big maf flash didn't take -
he had the oldest and first version of the full control flash - didn't you?

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 Your ecu didn't have the big maf flash on it. You handled that entire situation horribly. Why didn't you try putting back on your stock size intake to see if the car acted normal before thinking that adding fuel to a car that can't start and stay running was the best solution? Your anxiousness to go big turbo and be fast just cost you anywhere from 3-7K.

I actually think he did put the stock intake back on and verify that it ran great. Then I believe he was trying to get the car running properly by adding some fuel.

But i don't think OP had much experience in tuning, and of course should have been a bit more cautious. Hard lesson learned in the long run. But hopefully it has a happy ending with a built bottom end and many years of fun power ahead.

[dizzin9]

Originally Posted by spnkr21 OMG Did this just happen today? Why the hell would you add that much fuel and then stay on it that lean? You were at 5grand? You added fuel in every single cell which is closed loop and open loop. Your fuel trims were prolly way out of wack.... What other signs did you need???? This was a stock block too right? I love how Dizzi9 thanked your OP

u have a man crush on me spankwire21?

[spnkr21]

Yes asszit. I have a crush on you.

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn I actually think he did put the stock intake back on and verify that it ran great. Then I believe he was trying to get the car running properly by adding some fuel. But i don't think OP had much experience in tuning, and of course should have been a bit more cautious. Hard lesson learned in the long run. But hopefully it has a happy ending with a built bottom end and many years of fun power ahead.

I was the First or second one to run that XL maf. Did I have tunning? Did I need tunning? This story is ass backwards to me cause I've ran the XL on stock flash and Flash and I've run the Flash on stock housing and XLMaf. CPE designed it to be flash and go minor tweaking for big power. O.P is leaving something out. Acutally I'm trying to figure out whats the goal of O.P's thread. He's either saying its clearly user error and he's responsible or he's saying the cpe flash fucked him and blew his motor. He hasn't picked a stance yet. He's using this thread to feel it out. So O.P which is it?

[7mileshome]

the disclamer is on the first post, just got to read

[Mikey95hd]

It seems to me MAZDA, wanted to compete for the EVO and STI market, so they came up with this motor. Look at the orignal Rotary / Wankel in Cali, it would not pass smog, and this car won't either if smoke is coming out of it. All new cars don't need smog for five years. So if you drive it, and it lasts for five years, you'll never pass smog, your stuck with what ever it takes to fix the problem. Mazda won't help you they know they made another engine that at first in 2006, would compete against the EVO and STI. They pushed the engine in stock format to it's limits, and probably de-tuned a little so it wouldn't blow until the now magically 3 years, 36,000 miles, after that it is your problem.

My 2007 is stock, I figured I would do nothing to it until I have the Pink slip, well it started smoking at 31,000 miles, and the dealer changed the oil to 5w-40. The problem is the PCV system, look at COBB fix for the smoking exhaust and that tell's you exactly what the problem is. Open the oil fill cap at idle there should never be pressure blowing out of it, it should be vacuum, I even had them start a 2010, vacuum not pressure. That was the tell tail sign that the engine was not running right. Also I reset all the "INFO" button on the center console, and noticed that the mileage is decreasing for the average miles. This told me that there must be a problem.

Mazda only wants your money, just like Toyota, big business, big money, and screw the customer.

I called MAZDAUSA and told them to fix the car, or give me a brand new one, my 2007 has a 60,000 mile/60 month warranty on the drive train, engine, front and rear axles...The new car is only 36,000 bumper to bumper coverage. Why?

Read the copy of the first two paragraphs of the COBB fix for the PCV, this should have been done from the very start from MAZDA. There adventure in the TURBO market with street cars is a failure. They hurried there processes and produced a engine at first seemed to be rock solid on the test bed, we became the BETA TEST team for there product. So what will they do to fix the problem? Nothing, you don't fix what is not broken, and when the problems surface, you blame the end user.

38,600 miles on the car and there replacing the TURBO, that will not fix the combustion blowing past the rings and into the crank. Rings will never seat, that is why the changed the oil from 5w-30 to 5w-40 to seal the rings, that doesn't work.

On this forum you can read the Cobb bulletin on how to fix the PCV system, and they nailed it right on the head in the first two paragraphs, There are nine 2010's sitting at the dealership I've been going to since they closed the local shop. People test drive them, but nobody is buying them.

Good luck with MAZDA, at least calling Corporate they told the dealership to replace the turbo, and if that doesn't fix it, then fix what ever needs to be fixed before returning the car to the customer. So they better replace the engine, and exhaust system, all the oil in the exhaust has probably ruined the Cat. And I think I might take it to a SMOG check station and see if they will run it, to prove that this car is a gross pollution producer.

Also I told MADZAUSA that I do not want the car back and want a refund for money payed, it has it's thrid set of tires on it now, brakes both front and real went bad at 37,000 miles, shifts funny in 2nd, 3rd, and 6th, and seems to lose power when getting on the freeway. Front end has been aligned several times, squeaks coming from the dash, Cluncking from the front end, (Sounds like a bad ball joint in my 1970 Chevy truck).

I could understand the problems, if I took it to Willow Springs and raced it on there track, every weekend, I just drive the car as a everyday commuter, too and from work. Lately I don't even want to drive it at all, the engine could let go at anytime, and do you think your getting a free tow? NO

I have been driving my 97 t-bird instead, same gas mileage out of 4.6, over this POS, and fell a lot more safer in it, driving the speed I fell like I'm sitting on a seat with no protection around me...After all look for Doug Herbert of NHRA fame and he lost both of his sons in a car accident, they were driving the MAZDASPEED 3, do a google search for it there is nothing left of the car...

ZOOM-ZOOM
BOOM-GLOOM
BIG MONEY....

[8.5MS3]

stop bitching, i blew my turbo at 15k. big fuckin deal

how do you know you have blowby? did you do a compression test or are you just bitching

all the ms3's have a 3yr/36k bumper2bumper and 5yr/60k powertrain


EDIT: Im not gonna derail this thread so i'll shutup here

best of luck OP

[7mileshome]

Yes.. that was an interesting story, I think it deserves its own thread, don't you Mikey

[djuosnteisn]

I commend the two of you for even reading it.

[dizzin9]

Originally Posted by spnkr21 Yes asszit. I have a crush on you.

lol what a fag