boom boom she goes

[Laloosh]

you figure some1 that is running a bigger turbo plus bolt on's knows what to look for...than again with some of the ms3 owners ive met...all bets are off

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by Laloosh you figure some1 that is running a bigger turbo plus bolt on's knows what to look for...than again with some of the ms3 owners ive met...all bets are off

isn't that a true, understatement! +1 Take for instance those who run high boost without adding higher octane fuel to boot. Yet, they look at you cockeyed when you tell them, they should be running alky injection. " That's $400 man! ". $400 is much cheaper then $8000.

[ElBartoRex]

Originally Posted by palerider am i correct in understanding he was running a gt3071 with a cobb ap tune? a stock turbo cobb ap tune? lol...no surprise here if this was the case. actually its kinda cool it lasted a couple months.

exactly, I don't know why everyone is blaming the car...

Originally Posted by Laloosh you figure some1 that is running a bigger turbo plus bolt on's knows what to look for...than again with some of the ms3 owners ive met...all bets are off

...gospel.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Laloosh you figure some1 that is running a bigger turbo plus bolt on's knows what to look for...than again with some of the ms3 owners ive met...all bets are off

i think considering he ran an ap tune with his gt30..... well, maybe he can weigh in here. but im not thinking thats the slickest idea around here. if he was smart enough to monitor all of that i doubt he would have considered it in the first place considering the alternatives. it sounds like a guy who got flashed, decided to go big turbo and never pulled his tune off or considered an alternative.

plus...not to sound like im flaming him...but the dealer is warrantying this with an ecu flash and a gt3071 on the car? does his uncle own the dealership?

this whole thing sounds fishy. maybe the OP can shed some more light on the sit-you-ate-chun.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by palerider i think considering he ran an ap tune with his gt30..... well, maybe he can weigh in here. but im not thinking thats the slickest idea around here. if he was smart enough to monitor all of that i doubt he would have considered it in the first place considering the alternatives. it sounds like a guy who got flashed, decided to go big turbo and never pulled his tune off or considered an alternative. plus...not to sound like im flaming him...but the dealer is warrantying this with an ecu flash and a gt3071 on the car? does his uncle own the dealership? this whole thing sounds fishy. maybe the OP can shed some more light on the sit-you-ate-chun.

Well, those raise interesting questions. For starters, the dealers can't authorize the warranty to work on a blown engine without someone from Mazda getting involved. We all know, you blow an engine and the red flag is raised. No one at Mazda is going to let an aftermarket big turbo car, fully bolted with a modified ECU program, get a warranty claim. So, how does one get warrantied without an inspector from Mazda NA themselves, coming out to look at the car? We have seen from previous threads like these, Mazda requests photographs, etc.

If i was going big turbo, you bet your ass im going with a custom tune. An off the shelf tune is far from sacred and you are playing with fire. Whos also to say, this car didnt suffer from the famous ATP boost creep syndrome?

[smakdown61]

Wait, so the OP was running a STOCK turbo OTS map on that turbo? Wow....

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by smakdown61 Wait, so the OP was running a STOCK turbo OTS map on that turbo? Wow....

Supposedly, looked like that info was left out of the initial post.

[Laloosh]

its kinda hard to go custom tune when that option is not yet available lol

[PerlMazdaSpeed3]

First of all sorry for what happened bro. Maybe once the engine is tore down and you can get some pics, we'll be able to get a better idea of the root cause.

I am still new to the MS3 world, about a month as an owner, but I've been lurking around for a bit. I still have hope for this car, as long as normal tuning logic is applied, then you would hope that the engine would treat you good. But then again, there is no true security once a faulty OEM mechanical failure happens. I have about 1220 miles on her right now and I just hope she is tough enough for once I start throwing parts at it. We'll see!!!

Thanks again for sharing and keep us posted.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Haltech Supposedly, looked like that info was left out of the initial post.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...0whp-club.html

a gt2871, followed by a gt3071, followed by cobb stockturbo ap tunes, boost cut defenders, full boltons....

this car has been tough as shit.... sorry to see it finally go.

[JimmyMac]

Sorry to hear about the pop. Clip on the piston coming loose huh? I remember I mentioned something about maybe the pins not getting enough oil (in another thread somewhere), which could cause the rod to bend/break. I have yet to take my engine apart. I have 2 1/2 weeks left for this semester in school. Then I should have free time to do some snooping around.

Brain storming here.... if the clip falls out of the piston and falls into the BS assembly... Is that possible? Was the clip found? Has anyone, who has blown a motor, inspected the BS assembly afterwards?

Anyways... lemme get back to my homework. I'll add this to the blown resource thread tomorrow.

[SharkDiver]

I didnt notice he was running a GT3071 with a AP ots tune..I feel a little better now about my car but I still wish this car came with forged internals.

[lestat13]

Subbing to see what dealer is replacing the motor under warranty...... Just in case I blow I will know where to take my almost full bolt-on car to. No offense, I can't see them giving you a new motor, but here's wishful thinking!!

[ptperformance]

Wow, guy pops his motor and gets flammed. Shit even pictures don't make people happy anymore.

I am only talking to a very few of you that seem to know better then he does, yet some of you are running turbos so low in there eff range that they are not even making the power of a modded stocker. I guess we all have our different ways of doing things.

[Laloosh]

yea but at least they are not failing like your pos modded stockers. You want to start with me? I will bury you in 2 weeks LOL

If the tunning was out to allow me to run more boost in the cold weather, i wouldnt have to run my 35 at 17 psi.

Im sick you saying im working on this working on that i have a solution fo rthis and that....and yet you make midpipes that are too short, turbos that fail and...oh wait thats about all you make outside of a mm that no1 runs

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by Laloosh its kinda hard to go custom tune when that option is not yet available lol

It is available...

[Laloosh]

Where? Cause the ap sucked on my car and cpe doesnt have their flashes ready yet.

[Lymerock]

I feel for the OP, no matter what mods you run, popping an engine sucks big.

However, I am NOT going to let a blown engine spoil my fun. Tonight I ran around for well over two hours datalogging, racing anything I could find and beating the absolute shit out of my car, and it always cuts slightly at 5k rpm in 4th which isnt necessarily "safe"
anyway, I drive my car like I am trying to break things almost every day and it has yet to skip a beat.
if the time comes for me, it will come, but until then I am not going to be a pussy and put my car back to stock so I can buy another lemming tuner.

cant wait to put my flywheel in asap so I can beat the shit out of my car even more than I currently do.

again, OP, sorry it went down like that
and a quick question, what oil were you running? when was the last time you changed it? what oil filter do you run?

[Lex]

Once again, a wrist pin will not fall out unless the piston itself is out of the bore ... thats what bothers me about the diagnosis.

[smakdown61]

Originally Posted by ptperformance Wow, guy pops his motor and gets flammed. Shit even pictures don't make people happy anymore. I am only talking to a very few of you that seem to know better then he does, yet some of you are running turbos so low in there eff range that they are not even making the power of a modded stocker. I guess we all have our different ways of doing things.

Have you not seen enough blown motor threads to be skepticle by now? We hear about blown engines, but 90% of the time never get the whole story about what happened, or we find out later they were doing something stupid....as what seem to be in this case. Blowing your motor running a cobb OTS tune NOT designed for your mods will yield no sympathy from me.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by Laloosh Where? Cause the ap sucked on my car and cpe doesnt have their flashes ready yet.

Sucked on your car because you allowed it to suck. You gave it about as much time as i did this morning taking a shit.

[Darksun280]

People are going to make themselves feel like what's happening to the people with blown motors can't possibly apply to them. If I was to blow up tomm the same way as others I wouldn't stand a chance against the members on this site. Hell they'd probably even say I deserve to blow. Open your eyes people its not a tunning issue its a manufacturing flaw so people better start thinking out side the box for the answer to this puzzle cause we are ALL up for the chopping block on this one it seems.

[mrlilguy157]

sucks. i wouldn't point to the tune at all. not going to blow under no boost (regardless of turbo) + the AP.

anyone who says that is clueless.

No boost is no boost. gt35r, or gt12.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 People are going to make themselves feel like what's happening to the people with blown motors can't possibly apply to them. If I was to blow up tomm the same way as others I wouldn't stand a chance against the memebers on this site. Hell they'd probably even say I deserve to blow. Open your eyes people its not a tunning issue its a manufacturing flaw so people better start thinking out side the box for the answer to this puzzle cause we are ALL up for the chopping block on this one it seems.

Well i would agree with you to a point, but... what people fail to remember is, this car is built to only withstand a certain amount of cylinder pressure, before your bottom end goes. People always want to point blame at the manufacturing side of this car. Do you think Mazda engineers said, " shit, we need to allow 50% on the table incase people decide to mod this car with bigger turbos. " No, they did not. They designed the car to operate within its advertised limits of horsepower. If you have the balls to buy big turbos, you better have the balls to accept full responsibility by not building your engine. Everything is a risk, which the same goes for having a bad tune. Ive seen 03 Cobras, which are fully built forged from the factory, blow because of a stupid aggressive tune, not enough fuel, and a big supercharger. Is that FORDS fault? At what point, do you feel its the owner who needs to accept responsibility here?

Ill give a person sympathy for blowing up their engine. What i will not give sympathy for, is doing something STUPID that caused your engine to blow. What pisses me off is everyone crying fowl Mazda fucked them by denying their warranty with a BT strapped to the car. It fucks everything up for all of us who have actual, warranty claims for stuff thats not even performance related, only because we have bolt on's on the car.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Haltech Sucked on your car because you allowed it to suck. You gave it about as much time as i did this morning taking a shit.

You must not have wipped much.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by ptperformance You must not have wipped much.

I like dingleberries on mondays

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by smakdown61 Have you not seen enough blown motor threads to be skepticle by now? We hear about blown engines, but 90% of the time never get the whole story about what happened, or we find out later they were doing something stupid....as what seem to be in this case. Blowing your motor running a cobb OTS tune NOT designed for your mods will yield no sympathy from me.

Trust me I am but why is it not every single motor? Why does the AP help with it? Is it knock? Is it faulty parts? Can we nail this down to a date of MFG? Darksun has been asking for something to let go on his motor, still nothing. Yet guys with just an intake and exhaust have there motors pop? I have a very good idea what it is and its either coming from down below or up top from the DI. I also have my issues with the turbo manifold feeding into a non merge colector at the turbo, but I will keep quiet about that.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Haltech I like dingleberries on mondays

[gtlaw]

Originally Posted by smakdown61 Have you not seen enough blown motor threads to be skepticle by now? We hear about blown engines, but 90% of the time never get the whole story about what happened, or we find out later they were doing something stupid....as what seem to be in this case. Blowing your motor running a cobb OTS tune NOT designed for your mods will yield no sympathy from me.

that is a good point, but I have to figure most people don't feel like posting every last detail after thier shit blew up.

the OP said the setalership had 3 cases of this happenng I doubt all of them were big turbos

[bova]

so if its not available it sure is weird there are ms6 guys running custom AP tunes for a GT28 turbo

[MS6 Alan]

ptp, why even make comments like that, it seems that's all we ever see from you now....its getting old.
"...i know what the fix is, i just cant discuss it..."

we are all here to figure this out and share experiences....if its all about the money for you, then just dont say anything and "fix" it for us......

Best of luck to the OP in getting back on the road.

[ElBartoRex]

This guy is just like 90% of the other blown MS3 engines, shady details and no responsibility accepted.

I call complete BS on the dealership honoring warranty on that motor, I will believe it when you scan the work order.

[Laloosh]

oh please, cut the custom ap bt tune SHIT.
I gave christian more then enough time to tune the car. The only way ill ever run a flash on my car is if i can do it myself, cause his tatits resulted in a 40whp loss and about ohhhh lets see 55 on a bt car that i know

[smakdown61]

Originally Posted by Laloosh oh please, cut the custom ap bt tune SHIT. I gave christian more then enough time to tune the car. The only way ill ever run a flash on my car is if i can do it myself, cause his tatits resulted in a 40whp loss and about ohhhh lets see 55 on a bt car that i know

Idiot. You did an EMAIL tune from christian using dashhawk logs. Look what tim bailey did with gt08's car.....300whp on a mustange dyno and ZERO knock. Try getting a REAL custom tune IN PERSON and stop whining all the time about your own damn retarded choices.

[smakdown61]

Originally Posted by mrlilguy157 sucks. i wouldn't point to the tune at all. not going to blow under no boost (regardless of turbo) + the AP. anyone who says that is clueless. No boost is no boost. gt35r, or gt12.

Thats not entirely true. Detonation during high boost will weaken parts in the bottom end making them fragile enough to break at low boost. Its called metal fatigue.

[mdogg]

Originally Posted by smakdown61 Idiot. You did an EMAIL tune from christian using dashhawk logs. Look what tim bailey did with gt08's car.....300whp on a mustange dyno and ZERO knock. Try getting a REAL custom tune IN PERSON and stop whining all the time about your own damn retarded choices.

Did Tim Bailey physically touch the ECU and program the ECU directly with 0s and 1s? No, he likely altered some values outside of the ECU onto a map canvas and then uploaded it to the ECU.

What does "in person" have to do with anything? It's tuning.... you don't have the physically see the engine - you only need to know what it's doing and how it's reacting. In fact, seeing the engine "in person" will show you absolutely nothing about the way the engine is running.

No offense, but mail-in flashes have been happening for years on other cars and they are widely accepted... I'm not saying that they are the best thing, but they are proven to work. Not to mention, that is pretty much how Christian has been doing the beta thing for a while now, right? Working on many cars, in many locations, and making changes via EMAIL.

If someone is tuning a BT car over the course of 6 weeks, I would think the tuner has had more than enough opportunity to make power (IF THE TUNING METHOD WORKS).

[redrocketz]

Originally Posted by ptperformance Trust me I am but why is it not every single motor? Why does the AP help with it? Is it knock? Is it faulty parts? Can we nail this down to a date of MFG? Darksun has been asking for something to let go on his motor, still nothing. Yet guys with just an intake and exhaust have there motors pop? I have a very good idea what it is and its either coming from down below or up top from the DI. I also have my issues with the turbo manifold feeding into a non merge colector at the turbo, but I will keep quiet about that.

inherant design flaw like I've said before even regular 2.3'sare not getting sufficiant oiling to the number 2 cylinder and causing rod knock or worse think about it.

[blackmica08]

Originally Posted by Haltech Well, those raise interesting questions. For starters, the dealers can't authorize the warranty to work on a blown engine without someone from Mazda getting involved. We all know, you blow an engine and the red flag is raised. No one at Mazda is going to let an aftermarket big turbo car, fully bolted with a modified ECU program, get a warranty claim. So, how does one get warrantied without an inspector from Mazda NA themselves, coming out to look at the car? We have seen from previous threads like these, Mazda requests photographs, etc. If i was going big turbo, you bet your ass im going with a custom tune. An off the shelf tune is far from sacred and you are playing with fire. Whos also to say, this car didnt suffer from the famous ATP boost creep syndrome?

first of all i had my wastegate ported out to avoid ant boost creep, also i was running a custom veta map 93 oct set at 18psi, which it never saw more than 17 psi because i had set my turboxs boost controller at 17psi. like i said i was out of boost when it happened 2nd gear 3500rpm . when the car was put at the lift and the black plastic cover taken out there were pieces of the block and the piston pin resting on the cover, also the piston clip came off without breaking, the tech is a personal friend and he said that clip is not enough to hold that piston, he had done a couple of ms3 which had problem on cylinder 4 which mazda knows theres a problem with cylinder 4. i will get all of you doubters more pictures of the car with full bolts on at the dealer as it is.

[Lymerock]

Originally Posted by Laloosh oh please, cut the custom ap bt tune SHIT. I gave christian more then enough time to tune the car. The only way ill ever run a flash on my car is if i can do it myself, cause his tatits resulted in a 40whp loss and about ohhhh lets see 55 on a bt car that i know

Ive heard the story from you, and I heard christian's take as well. from what I understand you asked for certain things to be done a certain way. Im not going to claim the AP would have acted differently if you let him continue to work with you because that would be speculation, but on the other hand it is impossible to agree completely with your story since you did not give it a real chance. To the casual observer, it looks like you didnt want the AP to work.

regardless, burn enough bridges and nobody will want to work with you. I dont dislike you laloosh, not a bit, but I dont hesitate to call it like I see it, right or wrong.

[blackmica08]

Originally Posted by Laloosh you figure some1 that is running a bigger turbo plus bolt on's knows what to look for...than again with some of the ms3 owners ive met...all bets are off

if you take your time to read what i posted before you will see that i was closely monitoring my afr, kn reading and fuel trims and all of them were fine, i aint no noob with heavily moddified cars , 2 s/c gt, a nitrous srt8 and a head and cams ls1, also i was closely working with fynetune which they have a great knowledge of imports.