BOOM-'FREAKIN-BOOM

[badams118]

Originally Posted by X4 SRT Yeah? How do you know they were properly tuned? How do you what AFR's were, what knock was, what the timing was like? Does everyone send you logs of their cars for every driving situation? Are you the tuning guru? I think the latest information of a ms3 hitting 400whp backs up my statements much better than anyone of the "theories" in this thread. Like they said, it wasn't any real secret that got them there it was hard work with lots of logging, tuning, and hitting the dyno. Over 200 dyno pulls to learn what they did. I've said it before and i'll say it again; it's all in the tuning.

Palerider had one of the top tuners tune his car & it blew. JerseySpeed's car was tuned by Jordan at CP-E.

The tune won't save you.

[HighSun_Murder]

Originally Posted by TRU-BOOST I have to believe it a quality issue and has little to nothing to do with your driving habits. I am fully bolted, and i am that asshole that beats the death out of the car on a daily basis..... No not spirited driving, abuse.... flat out abuse. So far 30k, good as new. I run high boost in heat, cold, through knock levels over 6.0 at times. If it was an abuse issue mine would have been DOA a long time ago.

LOL! I think we went to the same driving school! lol!

[Smokehouse]

Here's the deal...what these engines are doing is far from normal...tune, meth, mods, light mods...I don't give a shit, the engine should do what its doing unless it is pushed REALLY hard.

Out of all the sports cars I've ever owned...only one other had had catastrophic failures like this...it was the 3.4L Yamaha V8 cam issue...

I don't know a single "light mod" Mustang owner chucking his connecting rod through the side of his block...or a LSx owner...it's not normal to throw internals through the side of your block when you're only pushing some >30% more hp over stock...I don't care what the excuse is.

I know I'm comparing a V8 to a 4cyl but come on fellas...blaming this bullshit on something like a fucking tune or the lack of meth or whatever is absurd, this is a serious design/build issue.

The FACT is that this engine is not designed/built for what Mazda did to it. Period. Some a re lucky (my SHO didn't explode), other's aren't. The point is its a little luck, a little use. I guess we're all rolling the dice a bit.

[DaleNixon]

Are a lot of 08.5's and 09's blowing? I'm just wondering if Mazda changed anything for those years. I bet we see even fewer instances of zoom zoom boom with the 2010.

[bova]

Originally Posted by Smokehouse Here's the deal...what these engines are doing is far from normal...tune, meth, mods, light mods...I don't give a shit, the engine should do what its doing unless it is pushed REALLY hard. Out of all the sports cars I've ever owned...only one other had had catastrophic failures like this...it was the 3.4L Yamaha V8 cam issue... I don't know a single "light mod" Mustang owner chucking his connecting rod through the side of his block...or a LSx owner...it's not normal to throw internals through the side of your block when you're only pushing some >30% more hp over stock...I don't care what the excuse is. I know I'm comparing a V8 to a 4cyl but come on fellas...blaming this bullshit on something like a fucking tune or the lack of meth or whatever is absurd, this is a serious design/build issue. The FACT is that this engine is not designed/built for what Mazda did to it. Period. Some a re lucky (my SHO didn't explode), other's aren't. The point is its a little luck, a little use. I guess we're all rolling the dice a bit.

you also need to take into consideration you are trying to compare N/A motors to a Forced Induction motor. Shit will blow quicker in a FI motor if its not done right.

[Smokehouse]

Originally Posted by bova80 you also need to take into consideration you are trying to compare N/A motors to a Forced Induction motor. Shit will blow quicker in a FI motor if its not done right.

People have been using forced induction on many motors for many years... bone stock SOCH 4.6 V8 will handle quite a bit of boost with no modifications on the internals...same with the LSx blocks...then there's the Mitsu engines and other factory turbos...

Boost or no...pushing 15lbs of boost should not be this damaging to an engine.



BTW....are MS6's popping like this? Haven't heard much about them.

[Deadman]

i still say there are less ms6's blowing.... however there are less on the road so who knows.

[richie b 74]

wow i just bought one of these cars and now i dont want one anymore. smoking turbos, bad mm. blown motors. if this motor is so bad why is mazda still putting it in the new mazdaspeed 3? this is disappointing and im affraid to drive the thing.

[yang_jackson]

Originally Posted by richie b 74 wow i just bought one of these cars and now i dont want one anymore. smoking turbos, bad mm. blown motors. if this motor is so bad why is mazda still putting it in the new mazdaspeed 3? this is disappointing and im affraid to drive the thing.

dont worry about. drive it like you stole it. nothing to worry about unless you are heavily modded. its really a tiny % of cars that are being affected. despite all these posts, im still happy as fuck i got my car and am enjoying the thing to the fullest. if my motor pops in the future, ill worry about it at that time. and despite other posts, warranty is worth something in these instances. im just staying under 300 hp, maintaining it like im supposed to, and not doing anything stupid.

[Smokehouse]

Originally Posted by richie b 74 wow i just bought one of these cars and now i dont want one anymore. smoking turbos, bad mm. blown motors. if this motor is so bad why is mazda still putting it in the new mazdaspeed 3? this is disappointing and im affraid to drive the thing.

Replace the MM and deal with everything else....drive it, love it and trade it in before the warranty runs out. That's my plan. I have a SRI and a BPV on my car...and other than the motor mount, that's it. It's a fun car that's not a rocket ship but still a good experience.

I too went through the whole "Holy fuck! What have I got myself into?" thing once I started reading threads but I eventually had to let it go. I don't have a thing on my car that I can't pull less in less than one hour. If my car pops under warranty, I'll remove the SRI and BPV...simple simon.

I wouldn't suggest driving it like you stole it though...Mazda seems to have a thing about voiding the warranty on abused vehicles.

[TRU-BOOST]

Originally Posted by yang_jackson dont worry about. drive it like you stole it. nothing to worry about unless you are heavily modded. its really a tiny % of cars that are being affected. despite all these posts, im still happy as fuck i got my car and am enjoying the thing to the fullest. if my motor pops in the future, ill worry about it at that time. and despite other posts, warranty is worth something in these instances. im just staying under 300 hp, maintaining it like im supposed to, and not doing anything stupid.

I agree with you about the warranty aspect, stock or close to stock cars have blown as well. I really dont think the mods matyer either in all honesty. I dont think anyone has actually reached such a high level of power on these cars that the engine just couldnt handle i and let go. I do think it is crankshaft play. This has been an issue for many cars in the past including a few mazdas. I agree with a previous poster about the v8 sho's. Those hing were popping left and right, until they learned about the cam welding. I think it is just a factory defect like that. If it worries you that much stay stock and let mazda fix it. That is unless it happens after your powertrain warranty ! Trust me i dont want to blow, but if i do that just gives me an ecuse to go forged and run a much larger nitrous shot !!

[kgb]

Originally Posted by Smokehouse Replace the MM and deal with everything else....drive it, love it and trade it in before the warranty runs out. That's my plan. I have a SRI and a BPV on my car...and other than the motor mount, that's it. It's a fun car that's not a rocket ship but still a good experience. I too went through the whole "Holy fuck! What have I got myself into?" thing once I started reading threads but I eventually had to let it go. I don't have a thing on my car that I can't pull less in less than one hour. If my car pops under warranty, I'll remove the SRI and BPV...simple simon. I wouldn't suggest driving it like you stole it though...Mazda seems to have a thing about voiding the warranty on abused vehicles.

I know what you mean...before I bought this car last June, the most work I had done on an engine was change the spark plugs on a 1970 something Pinto back in '92....lol

I have never had a car with more than 115 hp in my 34 years....

Come to find out that I, we, pick one of the hardest cars ever to tune and do it safely...thank God for this forum to guide me on everything...

...but what a reward it will be if we can get safe power....

[lidokrantz]

if you stay lightly bolted or stock you are safe.....there has been no proof that stock cars are blowing...what maybe 2 compared to 40 with mods...i don't buy it...and i do believe that whatever damage is causing these engines to grenade is because PRIOR damage was done to them with extra boost and high heat, "oil hydrolocking" ( new theory) or something else with a combination of mods...and after many miles later randomly blowing at 3000 rpms or on light throttle somewhere low in the power band.....stock cars at stock boost are not blowing. If stock cars were grenading than a CALS would of been already been filed.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Ian This worries me... Unfortunetly, this seems to be happening a lot lately. Hopefully somebody can figure this out. If my engine does blow, i am sure in hell NOT buying a 2010 because they look like shit... Did you notice anything odd about driving around before it happened? Shooooooot man sorry about it.

We are working on it, I think we have a pretty good idea. Give us a week or 2 to figure it out.

Originally Posted by lidokrantz guaranteed this cars damage was done prior to him popping. No way in hell it would pop from just cruising on the highway. quote Phantom3 What exactly should Mazda be held accountable for?? There is no proof (as of yet) regarding a flaw in the engine. The car comes with a warranty under the premise that it will stay stock. If you are stock and you blow then it is covered. If you mod your car then it's your own damn fault. Why should Mazda pay for your fuck up? Mazda engineers don't sit around and design an engine with increasing the HP with aftermarket parts in mind. In fact it wouldn't surprise my if the engine was designed to pop on purpose... I"m just saying You no i bet Mazda enigineers do no why some of these engines are popping and i bet it is not JUST from the BSD. and honestly Phantom theory is not so far out i bet the Mazda engineers took this car to the grenading point and probably have popped a few to see where the popping point is... and i bet its not to far off stock levels...Mazda clearly knows how much this engine/ecu can take before a failure happens,,,and indeed when a engine pops that has mods...Mazda is off the hook...and at this point they probably are happy when a cars has mods so they not held accountable..IMO it is a combination of all the mods putting the engine in stress because it was not designed to handle extra boost/power as well as the ECU not being able to compensate for the changes that the mods have created, especially when boost is increased..We no the car can handle a CAI and CBE as Mazda has them from the factory.....and i would bet a TBE may put this thing at its line for safe power upgrades...any more than that especially with boost over stock and it's only a matter of time..without meth... Not trying to be negative about folks buying mods as many vendors make a living selling them, but this friggin platform can't handle more than a few light bolt-ons and stock boost. My recc is drive in balance, shift by 5500 tops, keep the boost at stock levels and do not over mod this thing...TILL it's built for more power first...otherwise stay close to stock levels. I am...and so far no issues.....I like my car and as much as this shit pisses me off i am keeping it and driving it a we bit more aggressive than normal....but not by much LOL

Its not a matter of over boosting, or beating on the car. The problem lies eleswhere. We are looking for the problem now.

Originally Posted by Deadman drive the hell out of it. Runs better that way.

Yes it does, I think those that have beat on the car have had the best luck to date.

Originally Posted by lidokrantz driving the hell out of it with too many mods is why this thing is popping...the damage is done when driving the hell out of it and it pops when you would never figure...it like Phantom right Phantom?

Really, I cannot think of more then 2 motors that have popped under full boost and WOT. Most of the motors pop during cruise or right after getting off the freeway. Its a flaw.

Originally Posted by FORZDA 1 The definitive proof isn't in-hand yet, but the damage that causes these failures is most likely as someone mentioned earlier, a flaw... either in assembly, component manufacturing, or a control system(ECU) gremlin. My hypothesis is currently focused on the balance shaft/thrust clearance area until proven false with solid data. Note to the OP, I'll pay shipping for your "blown" motor to get it in my hands for a teardown/analysis. If you're game, please PM me.

I have checked 4 motors now, all have good near to stock thrust bearing clearance. I don't think that is the issue. I still think its a hydrolock issue or ECM gremlin that is causing the motors to blow. I have been checking these motors over very close, if you need any info please PM me or call us at the shop. I can dive into any of the questions you have on them.

Originally Posted by smakdown61 Since no one really knows whats causing the failures, it could have absolutely nothing to do with mods. We don't know yet until someone does a complete teardown.

We have had the rare opritunity to check 2 motors now that have not gone boom. Both of them had bent rods and no visisible signs of detonation or pre-ignition. I still feel is a hydrolock condition in the motors.

Originally Posted by GQ_WhiteMS3 How do you know 99% of the cars popping are modded? how do we know how many people blow this engine and AREN'T on the forums to tell us about it... and aren't modded.

I would have to say 20% of the MS3 and 6 owners are on the site. Every time a blown motor shows up at any of the 3 local dealers, the parts managers call me. I head down, talk with the tech a bit and look around at what happened. They all appear to be bent rod problems, that appear to look hydrolocked.

Originally Posted by bf360 I still think were looking at a small percentage of cars that are blowing compared to the number that are modded, look at how many high hp/tq cars have stayed together with meth, i really think a lot of the blown motors are detonation caused.

Yes a very small percentage, but if you look at other platforms... we have a very high amount of motor failures. Just like with the Neon clutch blowing up and cutting the trans in 1/2, we saw several that did this. Sure it was a very low % based on the number of cars that were out there, but none the less more so then any of platform out there.

Originally Posted by SharkDiver Someone said mazda has a new part # for there thrust bearings so that may be part of our problem..

Yes they do, no, I don't think this is the cause of the blown motors.

Originally Posted by Funky What's wrong is that everybody sits around these forums saying "I'm sorry to hear that" and others speculate on the reason... BUT NO ONE IS INVESTIGATING THE CAUSE CORRECTLY. Hell we should all pitch in and send a few of these blown engines to experts who can investigate and find out why this is happening.... It would be worth it, and I would not have any problem paying my share for it. But no body does that. All everyone likes to do is GUESS... and that hasn't helped ONE BIT ever since the introduction of this car. Every single case of incident (fatal, or just a minor one) in the aviation industry gets investigated to find the EXACT reason for why it happened, and most of the time they do find out the exact leading cause, or multiple causes of an accident. This can be a 30 second investigation, or a year long investigation, but the cause is almost always found. This is a car people... not only that, its the engine in the car. I'm sure there is enough money in this community to investigate such a common problem with it. Funky

We are working on the problem now. If I could get people sending me there pistons, rods and numbering them in how they came out of the motor this would allow us to get a general status quo on what is happening. I would have to say that if motors are bending rods in the order of the intake valve opening events, that would lead me to belive that the motors are sucking something in from the intake manifold. The only thing that should be in there is air, other then that the PCV system could be filling them up with oil. This would cause the hydrolock in the proper squence (to match that of the intake opening events).

Originally Posted by Darksun280 If it was power or abuse related me and many others would be LONG ago blown up. If it was tune related I would be blown up LONG time ago cause I've been on stock ECU this entire time. boosted 30+ psi blew turbo and injector seals but still here Boosted 27psi on the dyno 3 times still here raced the car on 19-24 psi for over 9 months still here Threw a 60-1 on the car cranked it up to 27 psi made no big power BUT still here....... Trust me its not power or abuse related cause my motor would be the first one called home to mazda heaven if that was the case. That's why there's no sense fearing the thrown rod gremlins cause its all a gamble. Enjoy your car mod it how you want to and drive it how you want to. When your time comes it will come. If you don't want it to come leave the car stock, stock the car out, or trade it in.

Yep, you have the right idea. Now if we could just get your car to make some power...

Its a flaw somewhere and we are working with the intentions of finding what is going on. When we do, I will make sure to let everyone know what we found. Thanks.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by DaleNixon I don't think anyone's doing much with this data aside from freaking the fuck out that it exists.

I am tring to compile the list with an excell spread sheet. I am using STAT data files to figure something out. I still have to say that something it locking the motor up. No idea as to what, just that it is happening.

[ptperformance]

So no pictures of the carnage? I would like to see the rods and pistons to see if the motor infact locked up an bent the rods.

[ptperformance]

A better question you guys should be asking. Is how many have blown with a proper OCC on the car? That might get us somewhere.

[tutuga]

Originally Posted by ptperformance So no pictures of the carnage? I would like to see the rods and pistons to see if the motor infact locked up an bent the rods.

I talked to the dealer and they'll give me copies of the pics they take since the core is going back to mazda, I'll post them as soon as I have them

[tutuga]

and the front

[Speedn3]

Originally Posted by lidokrantz if you stay lightly bolted or stock you are safe.....there has been no proof that stock cars are blowing...what maybe 2 compared to 40 with mods...i don't buy it...and i do believe that whatever damage is causing these engines to grenade is because PRIOR damage was done to them with extra boost and high heat, "oil hydrolocking" ( new theory) or something else with a combination of mods...and after many miles later randomly blowing at 3000 rpms or on light throttle somewhere low in the power band.....stock cars at stock boost are not blowing. If stock cars were grenading than a CALS would of been already been filed.

new shortblock less than 10000 miles????!!!! - Mazda Forums

[TRU-BOOST]

I bet there are many more unmodded disi engines blowing than we know of. Forums are generally for those who mod their cars. Not every ms3/6/cx7 owner in the world are forum members you know. Are sure there are many blown stock engines. I know of a a local soccer mom who threw a rod in the family cx7 on her way home from work. Trust me they are out there.

[Meder]

Seems like most of those stories are from early mileage disi engines and in general something was wrong with the injector. I think this is the cause for a lot of our early low mileage blow ups.


I figure if most of us have made it this far we should be ok. Other failures I believe are from people really just pushing the limit on this car. maybe 330-350 is all it can take. I think most of us are worried about the OP story though. We have had a fair bit just blow cruising and there does not seem to be any reason for some of them.



It is what it is I guess. I dont really feel like we're all in danger of blowing, but I know its a chance for nearly any of us. I think most of us with modded cars will be fine, but fuck its not like it cant happen.