Boom this shit sucks

[SuperVillain]

I think its cuz he tried to floor it under 3k with it being cold outside. But then again im not an expert i the matter lol

[Speedn3]

Originally Posted by SuperVillain I think its cuz he tried to floor it under 3k with it being cold outside. But then again im not an expert i the matter lol

I dunno...I just don't think this is the case. I would wager their are thousands of MS3 owners that drive this car just like any other n/a car. Most would not know that it's harmful to do so.
IMO....modding the 3 is a crapshoot. Some of us just come up with snake eyes.

[SuperVillain]

Originally Posted by Speedn3 I dunno...I just don't think this is the case. I would wager their are thousands of MS3 owners that drive this car just like any other n/a car. Most would not know that it's harmful to do so. IMO....modding the 3 is a crapshoot. Some of us just come up with snake eyes.

True, I did this when I fust got my BOV in VTA. I would shift to a higher gear to lug my motor to get the BOV to go off without going fast. Perhaps this car was just made to be maxxed out the dealer. But then again why did Mazda make that Crappy CAI for the car? One can only assume but either way its sucks for the OP.

makes me want to rethink modding my car. Only thing I could see worth changing is the plastick BPV since it is known for boost leak.

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by speed_3 If the seals were no good what what the compression test turn out? Vs The valve dropping.

when doing a compression test on this motor count 165-170 as the middle and i believe its 20 either way is within spec, sorry to be vauge but I got that from a member on here.

[Darksun280]

edit

[Speedy3]

Another person here heavily modded told me he heard audible knock under WOT and his dash hawk alert went off with the KR being displayed and immediately let off the gas. He and I both believe his engine would have blown if he hadn't let off the gas.

BTW, KR of 6 is NOT normal under WOT in this car. If you EVER get high KR under WOT on this car, LIFT YOUR F'ING FOOT OFF THE GAS.

Sorry about the rod btw. Good luck.

45k miles and running strong!

[Bravnik]

Originally Posted by Speedy3 Another person here heavily modded told me he heard audible knock under WOT and his dash hawk alert went off with the KR being displayed and immediately let off the gas. He and I both believe his engine would have blown if he hadn't let off the gas. BTW, KR of 6 is NOT normal under WOT in this car. If you EVER get high KR under WOT on this car, LIFT YOUR F'ING FOOT OFF THE GAS. Sorry about the rod btw. Good luck. 45k miles and running strong!

Sorry man, but 6degs of knock is very normal in this car. Not saying it's good, but normal. Also, unless they have a KR light or DH they will never know they have it.

Now it might be more normal in places that have 91Oct Fuel like for me in CA. That is possible. I would LOVE to have 93 but not going to happen unless I mix 100Oct.

Just a note. In my testing of the KR (I think I had MSCAI, Test Pipe, MBC/Map Clamp running 18PSI at the time) I did run a mix of 100oct/91oct for about a 95Oct rating and I still had KR of 6degs.

As my logs earlier show (I use to have a shit load of them), I had 6deg of KR as normal. The first mod I got was a MSCAI and a DashHawk. I was shocked to see the KR this car had stockish. This is why a lot of people believed that the KR was just excess noise getting picked up and not actual KR. It's just that common. The highest I ever saw was 7deg.

Now with the AP I have zero KR.

And yes, if you HEAR pinging let off immediately. What you feel with 6deg of KR at WOT is a light stutter only with no pinging at all, thus without a KR light or DH you will never really know you have it.

[Speedy3]

Originally Posted by Bravnik Sorry man, but 6degs of knock is very normal in this car. Not saying it's good, but normal. Also, unless they have a KR light or DH they will never know they have it. Now it might be more normal in places that have 91Oct Fuel like for me in CA. That is possible. I would LOVE to have 93 but not going to happen unless I mix 100Oct. Just a note. In my testing of the KR (I think I had MSCAI, Test Pipe, MBC/Map Clamp running 18PSI at the time) I did run a mix of 100oct/91oct for about a 95Oct rating and I still had KR of 6degs. As my logs earlier show (I use to have a shit load of them), I had 6deg of KR as normal. The first mod I got was a MSCAI and a DashHawk. I was shocked to see the KR this car had stockish. This is why a lot of people believed that the KR was just excess noise getting picked up and not actual KR. It's just that common. The highest I ever saw was 7deg. Now with the AP I have zero KR. And yes, if you HEAR pinging let off immediately. What you feel with 6deg of KR at WOT is a light stutter only with no pinging at all, thus without a KR light or DH you will never really know you have it.

Tell me all the posts where people claim they get 6 deg of KR at WOT. The average I see posted is .3-.7 at WOT. 6 KR is common at cruise in the 3k rpm range.

[Deadman]

*cough* balance shaft *cough*

[Strizzo]

tell us why you think its the balance shaft?

[Lex]

On a bone stock car, I had 3+ Deg of KR at WOT in gears 4+ on 94 octane.

[wassup61]

Originally Posted by Strizzo tell us why you think its the balance shaft?

Strizzo,
My theory on the balance shaft-why I deleted mine:
what you have essentially is two geard shafs that are mated to a ring gear on the crank. The shafts are housed in a windage to keep them lubricated. When the motor is loaded up at low rpm with the tiny turbo that we have a massive torque spike is induced. The weight of the balance shafts and the drag brought on by the windage that surrounds them puts a huge amount of stress on the entire rotating assembly of cylinder 3 (others less so).

In the end, this can cause undue stress on the rings due to heat, torquing of the rods, and in general unhappiness of the motor.

P.S. Keep in mind that the balance shaft is there ONLY for NVH reduction and does not actually balance anything. It could be perfectly fine on a stock car without breathing mods, but once you start to increase the efficiency of the entire engine...

[badams118]

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...html#post98577

There you go, 6.0 KR with stock ECU. Take it for what you will.

[Strizzo]

i guess i can see where your theory is coming from, but i would think it would affect the crankshaft more than the rods or pistons, since the rods wouldn't really see the force of the balance shaft drag, they just transmit power from the piston to the crank. follow?

[Lex]

Unless the BS assembly locks up or binds, I have a hard time believing it causes engine damage.

[Boonestafa]

Originally Posted by twisted99 Sounds like a bent rod, but based on the log I would say it was caused by load on the engine. Looks like the run was started well under 3000rpms. You just can't do that in a turbo car with out asking for trouble.

i just cant believe that to be true. i've driven the piss out of the 1.8t at every RPM for 180k miles.. if this is an issue of this car.. which it seems to be.. then this is the most bullshit "engineering" on an engine that i've ever heard of. How much HP is the OP putting down? i can see snapping a drive shaft or blowing a gear out.. but bending a rod because he got on it below 3k just sounds like an excuse to me and not a real reason.

i got to say this car is giving me a headache and i've yet to mod the motor. this shouldnt be this difficult.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Boonestafa i just cant believe that to be true. i've driven the piss out of the 1.8t at every RPM for 180k miles.. if this is an issue of this car.. which it seems to be.. then this is the most bullshit "engineering" on an engine that i've ever heard of. How much HP is the OP putting down? i can see snapping a drive shaft or blowing a gear out.. but bending a rod because he got on it below 3k just sounds like an excuse to me and not a real reason. i got to say this car is giving me a headache and i've yet to mod the motor. this shouldnt be this difficult.

MS3 motor makes a lot more power than the VW 1.8t and there are consequences to that since the physics of an engine have not changed. The byproduct of power is heat and that heat takes a toll on things. Most people don't understand this. Take your old non-water cooled turbo 160hp SAAB and run it up a hill in boost for 5 minutes and see if you make it to the top.

On top of this people make it seem a lot worse than it is.

[bf360]

Originally Posted by Boonestafa i just cant believe that to be true. i've driven the piss out of the 1.8t at every RPM for 180k miles.. if this is an issue of this car.. which it seems to be.. then this is the most bullshit "engineering" on an engine that i've ever heard of. How much HP is the OP putting down? i can see snapping a drive shaft or blowing a gear out.. but bending a rod because he got on it below 3k just sounds like an excuse to me and not a real reason. i got to say this car is giving me a headache and i've yet to mod the motor. this shouldnt be this difficult.

i doubt your car had as much torque as our engines can make at such a low rpm

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by Lex Unless the BS assembly locks up or binds, I have a hard time believing it causes engine damage.

I was leaning more towards improper oil cooling to the bearing. That was always my guess with the BSD delete.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 I was leaning more towards improper oil cooling to the bearing. That was always my guess with the BSD delete.

That or oil dilution.

[watdog]

Did the OP have an oil catch can installed. That could cause oil up on the piston. I would think you would see it up on a few though. Are you sure it's oil and not fuel with carbon? Just out of curiosity did you have the heater or defrost turned on also? Headlights on?

I notice on mine that the car wants to stumble with the heater and headlights on in the cold weather we are having.

[speed_3]

I am going to be selling all my parts to pay for repairing my car. I just got back from visiting my brother in florida, so I have not been working on my car. Tomorrow im going to do the compression test and start taking all my mods off so i'll let you guys know what turns up. When I take the parts off I will set up a FS thread.

[evidence]

speed_3: curious why you threw itv24s in there? Sorry for your loss, hopefully the sales can cover most of the repairs.

[speed_3]

Thanks evidence. I had itv22's in there then I wanted to try to see if two step colder plugs reduced any knock at the open to close loop switch. My car always had a .4 to .7 knock pattern which has been with almost all my tunes I had. From all my readings the colder the plug the less heat it holds, which in turn could reduce pre detonation. I've had them in for about 3 months.

[mike.b]

all of us with cars that went boom, and people still mod stock internal speed's. learn a lesson before you do the hard way. thats my 2 cents

[Sanch]

That sucks. I really feel like I should have built my internals before getting full bolt ons. Sucks that this happened.

[smakdown61]

I think the real answer here is:

1. Get meth
2. Pound the gas pedal to the floor and be happy

[speed_3]

Originally Posted by smakdown61 I think the real answer here is: 1. Get meth 2. Pound the gas pedal to the floor and be happy

I had meth thats the interesting part.

[94jedi]

Originally Posted by speed_3 I had meth thats the interesting part.

I didn't read the whole thread but you're positive the meth fired?

[Lex]

It honestly sounds like timing jumped. Let us know what you find out.

[94jedi]

Originally Posted by Lex It honestly sounds like timing jumped. Let us know what you find out.

right, which is why I'm wondering if the meth fired or not...

[Darksun280]

I test my meth kit once a week to make sure its working or before any of my races. But I don't think that would have helped the O.P his symptoms sounds like another guy whos ms3 jumped timing.

[speed_3]

ok I did the compression test today, cylinder 1- 120psi 2- 145psi 3- 0psi 4-120. Now I put oil in cylinder 3 and ran another compression test to see if it would seal the rings still 0 psi. This leads me to a bent valve, hopefully the noise I was hearing wasn't the valve slapping the piston. Has anyone else bent valves on 3's?

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by speed_3 ok I did the compression test today, cylinder 1- 120psi 2- 145psi 3- 0psi 4-120. Now I put oil in cylinder 3 and ran another compression test to see if it would seal the rings still 0 psi. This leads me to a bent valve, hopefully the noise I was hearing wasn't the valve slapping the piston. Has anyone else bent valves on 3's?

Randy from being missed timed so looks like lex is right your car jumped timming.

[Lex]

The low readings in the other cyls are due to the throttle not being wide open during the test. And yes, it looks like you bent a valve - too bad this motor isn't non-interference like the old mazda BP motors.

[speed_3]

I had my foot to the floor, since it's interference type the valve hits the piston and could crack it ?where is the oil in the cylinder from.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by speed_3 I had my foot to the floor, since it's interference type the valve hits the piston and could crack it ?where is the oil in the cylinder from.

There's oil in the head. Once you bent the valve out of the way, you broke the valve seal and therefore oil entered the cylinder from the head.

Interference motors are ones where if timing is not kept, the pistons will hit valves - in other words when a valve is fully open and the piston is at TDC, they will make contact. This was a big issue with timing belts - if you had an interference motor and the belt broke, bye bye motor.

[Speedy3]

There is a lot of play in the timing chain on my motor. I noticed this when I replaced my valve cover with a ceramic coated one.

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by Speedy3 There is a lot of play in the timing chain on my motor. I noticed this when I replaced my valve cover with a ceramic coated one.

Randy just mentioned the same slack on his motor... It seems like it might be normal..

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by SSinstaller Randy just mentioned the same slack on his motor... It seems like it might be normal..

I wouldn't call normal one guy with a possible timing jump and the other has score marks inside his timing cover.