Clutch Issues with ACT

[spnkr21]

Lenny which replacement did you buy from act?

[jwilkins88]

I wanna know where ACT went. Have they given up?

[rodrigo]

Originally Posted by spnkr21 Lenny which replacement did you buy from act?

i bought the 6 puck , even though for drag racing it will be more difficult to drive because it grabs harder and faster. at this point i just wanted to have my clutch work so im going the cheapest route

Originally Posted by jwilkins88 I wanna know where ACT went. Have they given up?

who knows....

[jwilkins88]

Oh, and the thread title should be changed haha... It's clearly not about an exedy clutch anymore

[spnkr21]

Well let us know how it goes Lenny, I know you will.

I'll be putting a beating on my spec soon enough.
We do need more options so jwilks see if exedy is interested?
I know CM has been mentioned. Has anyone actually tried them on their speed yet?

[Amazon]

Originally Posted by hnda etr I'm guessing it got destroyed because of the vibrations caused by the bent rod - after all, the vibrations that get transmitted to the pedal get transmitted through the pilot bearing first.

Suppose you're gonna tell us that vibes from bumpy roads are going to destroy our clutch bearings too?

[laxplayermjd]

what about a few members and the broken fingers off the pressure plates?

[11cruzito11]

Originally Posted by spnkr21 Well let us know how it goes Lenny, I know you will. I'll be putting a beating on my spec soon enough. We do need more options so jwilks see if exedy is interested? I know CM has been mentioned. Has anyone actually tried them on their speed yet?

I have the ACT 6 puck clutch in right now but haven't launched the car yet.

[NJSPEED3]

ACT realized early in the game their approach was all wrong coming here posting.

[Tech/Sales@EM]

Originally Posted by spnkr21 Well let us know how it goes Lenny, I know you will. I'll be putting a beating on my spec soon enough. We do need more options so jwilks see if exedy is interested? I know CM has been mentioned. Has anyone actually tried them on their speed yet?

I have them in production at this very moment. THey will be released in the coming weeks.
So the ones wanting to stray away from SPECs use of a SAC mechanism pp and ACTs hit or miss clutches will now have another option.

[spnkr21]

^ sorry do you have more details? Is this about the clutch masters one?

[Tech/Sales@EM]

Yeah I saw you posted a response asking about a CM kit so I figured I would let you know I got one in production and its half way completed. I dont want to post to much detail until its done. And considering this thread has nothing to do with CM product I will keep any data I do have out of this thread.

[essejkcamraw]

I think the lesson here is.....if you own an ACT clutch, stick to roll racing.

[SgtP]

lenny 1 - ACT 0

[ACT Clutches]

The past page of posts is exactly the type of unproductive banter I am going to avoid. Just because I don’t spend my weekend of your message board, doesn’t mean I am hiding or gave up. But from the nature of the administration and moderation of this forum I can already see that trying to publicly argue technical issues on here would be pointless. I will leave the hearsay, name calling, speculation and blame game to those who have more time than I do. You can call this “giving up” if you like, but I am definitely not hiding. I am always concerned with ACT’s reputation since I am the President of ACT, Dirk Starksen (although I am not always the one to post for ACT). Anyone with an ACT question or issue please email tech@advancedclutch.com because your message will automatically go to several people at ACT including customer service, my product manager and myself. Please include your phone number so i can speak with you directly. You can call the shop at 661-940-7555 or leave me a direct message (ext 111) and I will call you back.

I am not sure what response Lenny was expecting if he called last Monday to complain that our street clutch slipped at the track on slicks with a car that makes more torque than what our clutch is rated for. We rate our clutches by calculated torque capacity at the flywheel at peak clamp load and publish these calculations. We also suggest a safety margin that is a minimum of 10% over the engine torque output. For those racing, we usually suggest using one of our race discs that holds approximately 28% more torque over the street disc. There are always other options for disc design and friction materials (not listed), but each has tradeoffs. Of course there is no way to know what is going on with Lenny’s clutch or anyone else’s unless we actually see and test the parts, so I am not going to speculate on this message board concerning them. If there is something found to be defective, we will own up to it.

General information: On some applications our basic street clutch is very robust and can handle drag racing and still hold over 50% more torque than the stock parts but on many other applications this is not the case. This is why we list actual calculated torque capacities for each one. The MS3/6 has some unusual challenges in terms of clutch design since it came equipped with a DMF (dual mass flywheel) and SAC (self adjusting clutch) but I won’t bore you with the many details (inquire if interested). Our initial test prototype MS3/6 pressure plate had more clamp load than our production design, but we toned it down because of the higher pedal effort and didn’t feel that is would be a good first stage street clutch. We have had few complaints (the most common being gear noise) in the past couple years but perhaps we should revisit the design and adjust some numbers to make a stronger pressure plate again. I am confident we can make something better suited for higher power, without sacrificing too much in terms of pedal effort, clutch life, etc. Of course we will have to find a person with an MS3 to test and evaluate the design (probably not Lenny, LOL).

Although the engineering, testing, and manufacturing of clutches is very technical, clutches are not all that complex. I have been working with performance clutches for 32 years, but I know there is always more to learn. There are always reasons when a clutch fails or doesn’t perform as expected. Certain parts of the car and driving habits also play a big role, such as the hydraulics, pedal assembly and adjustment, CDV (if equipped), pedal assist spring, intended use, burnout or launch technique, etc. Safety is also one of our primary concerns which is why we participate with SFI certification. Accurate feedback, vehicle testing, calculations, close inspection of the parts and failure analysis are often crucial to get answers and make improvements. There are limitations and tradeoffs as well. For instance, to get a clutch to be pleasant on the street and perform at the drag strip isn’t always possible, or for that matter, desirable.

Please contact us directly if you would like more information on specific questions or concerns.

[rodrigo]

"General information: On some applications our basic street clutch is very robust and can handle drag racing and still hold over 50% more torque than the stock parts but on many other applications this is not the case."


well if by that you are implying or already excusing that THIS is not an application (whether it's drag racing, using slicks or just the MS3 in general) where this applies, then there isn't much to discuss because it seems you are already covering your bases.

No matter the application, it isn't too far fetched to expect an aftermarket product (that costs more than OEM and it is alleged to hold more tq) to surpass the performance of such. Unfortunately there lies the problem. Often times when purchasing a performance product as a customer you make a compromise between the added performance and the required street ability of said product.

Since you are the president, you shouldn't have to ask for opinions from anyone at ACT.... so do you not see anything odd about me being able to race on slicks on the stock clutch without severe issues (other than advanced wear) but not being able to accomplish this with a 50% better holding product???

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by ACT Clutches The past page of posts is exactly the type of unproductive banter I am going to avoid. Just because I don’t spend my weekend of your message board, doesn’t mean I am hiding or gave up. But from the nature of the administration and moderation of this forum I can already see that trying to publicly argue technical issues on here would be pointless. I will leave the hearsay, name calling, speculation and blame game to those who have more time than I do. You can call this “giving up” if you like, but I am definitely not hiding. I am always concerned with ACT’s reputation since I am the President of ACT, Dirk Starksen (although I am not always the one to post for ACT). Anyone with an ACT question or issue please email tech@advancedclutch.com because your message will automatically go to several people at ACT including customer service, my product manager and myself. Please include your phone number so i can speak with you directly. You can call the shop at 661-940-7555 or leave me a direct message (ext 111) and I will call you back. I am not sure what response Lenny was expecting if he called last Monday to complain that our street clutch slipped at the track on slicks with a car that makes more torque than what our clutch is rated for. We rate our clutches by calculated torque capacity at the flywheel at peak clamp load and publish these calculations. We also suggest a safety margin that is a minimum of 10% over the engine torque output. For those racing, we usually suggest using one of our race discs that holds approximately 28% more torque over the street disc. There are always other options for disc design and friction materials (not listed), but each has tradeoffs. Of course there is no way to know what is going on with Lenny’s clutch or anyone else’s unless we actually see and test the parts, so I am not going to speculate on this message board concerning them. If there is something found to be defective, we will own up to it. General information: On some applications our basic street clutch is very robust and can handle drag racing and still hold over 50% more torque than the stock parts but on many other applications this is not the case. This is why we list actual calculated torque capacities for each one. The MS3/6 has some unusual challenges in terms of clutch design since it came equipped with a DMF (dual mass flywheel) and SAC (self adjusting clutch) but I won’t bore you with the many details (inquire if interested). Our initial test prototype MS3/6 pressure plate had more clamp load than our production design, but we toned it down because of the higher pedal effort and didn’t feel that is would be a good first stage street clutch. We have had few complaints (the most common being gear noise) in the past couple years but perhaps we should revisit the design and adjust some numbers to make a stronger pressure plate again. I am confident we can make something better suited for higher power, without sacrificing too much in terms of pedal effort, clutch life, etc. Of course we will have to find a person with an MS3 to test and evaluate the design (probably not Lenny, LOL). Although the engineering, testing, and manufacturing of clutches is very technical, clutches are not all that complex. I have been working with performance clutches for 32 years, but I know there is always more to learn. There are always reasons when a clutch fails or doesn’t perform as expected. Certain parts of the car and driving habits also play a big role, such as the hydraulics, pedal assembly and adjustment, CDV (if equipped), pedal assist spring, intended use, burnout or launch technique, etc. Safety is also one of our primary concerns which is why we participate with SFI certification. Accurate feedback, vehicle testing, calculations, close inspection of the parts and failure analysis are often crucial to get answers and make improvements. There are limitations and tradeoffs as well. For instance, to get a clutch to be pleasant on the street and perform at the drag strip isn’t always possible, or for that matter, desirable. Please contact us directly if you would like more information on specific questions or concerns.

Well considering you had exploding clutches on this platform last year, i highly disagree that your clutches were even meeting the street spec's they were designed for. I am sure you have some type of cynical excuse to down play that problem too?

Fine, you don't want to address the issue and fix this problem.. including the clutches not properly engaging at wide open throttle in simple street trim. That is your call DIRK DIGGLER, but um, we will make it a point to steer clear anyone from this point on, running your clutches on this platform. You should consider going on undercover boss or something.. for having 32 years of clutch experience, you sure dropped the ball on this platform.

[R.MS3]

Originally Posted by ACT Clutches The past page of posts is exactly the type of unproductive banter I am going to avoid. Just because I don’t spend my weekend of your message board, doesn’t mean I am hiding or gave up. But from the nature of the administration and moderation of this forum I can already see that trying to publicly argue technical issues on here would be pointless. I will leave the hearsay, name calling, speculation and blame game to those who have more time than I do. You can call this “giving up” if you like, but I am definitely not hiding. I am always concerned with ACT’s reputation since I am the President of ACT, Dirk Starksen (although I am not always the one to post for ACT). Anyone with an ACT question or issue please email tech@advancedclutch.com because your message will automatically go to several people at ACT including customer service, my product manager and myself. Please include your phone number so i can speak with you directly. You can call the shop at 661-940-7555 or leave me a direct message (ext 111) and I will call you back. I am not sure what response Lenny was expecting if he called last Monday to complain that our street clutch slipped at the track on slicks with a car that makes more torque than what our clutch is rated for. We rate our clutches by calculated torque capacity at the flywheel at peak clamp load and publish these calculations. We also suggest a safety margin that is a minimum of 10% over the engine torque output. For those racing, we usually suggest using one of our race discs that holds approximately 28% more torque over the street disc. There are always other options for disc design and friction materials (not listed), but each has tradeoffs. Of course there is no way to know what is going on with Lenny’s clutch or anyone else’s unless we actually see and test the parts, so I am not going to speculate on this message board concerning them. If there is something found to be defective, we will own up to it. General information: On some applications our basic street clutch is very robust and can handle drag racing and still hold over 50% more torque than the stock parts but on many other applications this is not the case. This is why we list actual calculated torque capacities for each one. The MS3/6 has some unusual challenges in terms of clutch design since it came equipped with a DMF (dual mass flywheel) and SAC (self adjusting clutch) but I won’t bore you with the many details (inquire if interested). Our initial test prototype MS3/6 pressure plate had more clamp load than our production design, but we toned it down because of the higher pedal effort and didn’t feel that is would be a good first stage street clutch. We have had few complaints (the most common being gear noise) in the past couple years but perhaps we should revisit the design and adjust some numbers to make a stronger pressure plate again. I am confident we can make something better suited for higher power, without sacrificing too much in terms of pedal effort, clutch life, etc. Of course we will have to find a person with an MS3 to test and evaluate the design (probably not Lenny, LOL). Although the engineering, testing, and manufacturing of clutches is very technical, clutches are not all that complex. I have been working with performance clutches for 32 years, but I know there is always more to learn. There are always reasons when a clutch fails or doesn’t perform as expected. Certain parts of the car and driving habits also play a big role, such as the hydraulics, pedal assembly and adjustment, CDV (if equipped), pedal assist spring, intended use, burnout or launch technique, etc. Safety is also one of our primary concerns which is why we participate with SFI certification. Accurate feedback, vehicle testing, calculations, close inspection of the parts and failure analysis are often crucial to get answers and make improvements. There are limitations and tradeoffs as well. For instance, to get a clutch to be pleasant on the street and perform at the drag strip isn’t always possible, or for that matter, desirable. Please contact us directly if you would like more information on specific questions or concerns.

I think the main problem here is that it's not only Lenny but several other people installing ACT clutches and either failing completely or starting to slip with less than 10k miles on them. Most of them do not have a car with more than 365ft/lbs so it's not a problem with more torque than the clutch is rated for.

You can easily search on this forum or check your own Customer Dept. to find out there are quite a lot of people running into problems with ACT Street clutches on these cars. Personally, i was thinking of going ACT but that's no longer the case with all these problems happening. You guys can refund the money in case of problems but what about the $1k+ service costs that's gonna go with the price of the installation?

I would really start looking at previous returns of clutches from these cars and research what's going on with all of them to see if something can be found.

Kinda tough...

[socks]

you have got to be kidding me. i just typed out a long response, and my hotel internet timed out. lost it all

f you guys. im not retyping it. my act experience was decent, other than the stiff pedal.

the clutch shattered and took the pressure plate with it after i traded the car in, but i attribute it to a ton of BS that occurred at the dealership with my car after i traded it in. pm me if you really want to know.

[rodrigo]

good thing sean the internet timed out on you, because you were gonna get a :

tl, dr, nce

[SgtP]

I want Exedy and CM to make us a twin disk setup. That will make me happy.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by rigor then it sounds like it is not built for a fwd, if you can't slip it a little, cause if you can't you'll be up in smoke if you have any power? btw my stock clutch is the bomb!!

The stock clutch is sturdy. I have 40k miles on it and 30+ 1/4 mile runs including one that glazed it and it still holds like new. Granted im not making huge power. After reading the stories about the ACT clutches I will just stick to the stocker when this one goes. Funny thing was that up until recently it was a forgone conclusion for me to upgrade to a ACT clutch due to my past experiences with the 2600 in my old Talon. Guess I will pass.

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by lenny127 i bought the 6 puck , even though for drag racing it will be more difficult to drive because it grabs harder and faster. at this point i just wanted to have my clutch work so im going the cheapest route who knows....

Their 6 puck sprung on the 240 was beast I loved that clutch. Not alot of room the slip and the pedal was kinda high but the pedal thing I think i could have adjusted. The evoX guys arent the biggest fan of their clutches but from what I hear their street disc and traction = won't last every long with launches. OEM Mazda clutch is great I'd just throw another one of those bad boys in and call it a night.

[Tech/Sales@EM]

For all of you that are fans of OEM, you know we can pair an OEM pp with new organic or kevlar discs or even ceramic puck discs and a slightly higher clamp load. You could then pair those combination with a fidanza or AASCO flywheel and have a higher torque capacity.

[jwilkins88]

Also, ACT, if you need someone to test a new version of your clutch, I'd be more than happy to help you guys out. Providing that you offer me a free clutch .

I'm one of the higher powered MS3s here, and I'm planning on tracking my car frequently during the Spring/Summer. I think I'd be a perfect candidate.

[laxplayermjd]

im also leaning towards a stock replacement when time comes. cant get that for around 300. labor would be free for me since ill do it. would like to get rid of the stock dual mass but aftermarkets dont come cheap and neither is the oem dual mass.

[Tech/Sales@EM]

You could easily throw a AASCO flywheel in, New OEM pp, Kevlar Disc and have a very capable set up.

[laxplayermjd]

Originally Posted by MazdaMadness You could easily throw a AASCO flywheel in, New OEM pp, Kevlar Disc and have a very capable set up.

I googled aasco as i never heard of them. Did not find one listed for my car. 07 MS6. it listed mazda 6 03-05. does the flywheel differ from reg 6 to turbo 6. Must also be a change in the flywheel production.

These new options for clutch disc will be available shortly from CM?

[phate]

Originally Posted by laxplayermjd These new options for clutch disc will be available shortly from CM?

Clutchmasters said they could build one for something like $700-800 when I talked to them, which makes me think they are just not mass producing them. I *think* it was Jose that I talked to at Clutchmasters, but I could be wrong about that. He said they actually have to use some Mazdaspeed OE parts due to the odd construction of the stock pieces. [This is also probably why ACT went with a complete package.] He offered a few different puck combinations in both the 400 and 500 levels of clutches.

[SgtP]

CM is on the top of my list.

[Tech/Sales@EM]

Originally Posted by laxplayermjd I googled aasco as i never heard of them. Did not find one listed for my car. 07 MS6. it listed mazda 6 03-05. does the flywheel differ from reg 6 to turbo 6. Must also be a change in the flywheel production. These new options for clutch disc will be available shortly from CM?

No and No. I have two different companies working on this. One is ready to go. The OEM pp paired with either kevlar, organic, ceramic full faced segmented or 6 puck. - which you can pair with AASCO or Fidanza flywheel.

The MS6 flywheel is different from the Mazda 6. Its a new part through AASCO and are on order and will be ready in a couple weeks.

CM will be able to mass produce the clutches because the Flywheel has been CNC and the program is written and we have the specs and such in place to continue building new clutches.

So we have two new options here guys. Depends on which way you wanna go. Upgraded OEM or CM which is completely different than OEM.

[spnkr21]

So you can or can't use cm with fidanza.

[laxplayermjd]

Originally Posted by MazdaMadness No and No. I have two different companies working on this. One is ready to go. The OEM pp paired with either kevlar, organic, ceramic full faced segmented or 6 puck. - which you can pair with AASCO or Fidanza flywheel. The MS6 flywheel is different from the Mazda 6. Its a new part through AASCO and are on order and will be ready in a couple weeks. CM will be able to mass produce the clutches because the Flywheel has been CNC and the program is written and we have the specs and such in place to continue building new clutches. So we have two new options here guys. Depends on which way you wanna go. Upgraded OEM or CM which is completely different than OEM.

Are you a employee of CM or aasco? When will we be able to view this options with pricing etc? Basically everything is still mythical at this point.

[Tech/Sales@EM]

Originally Posted by spnkr21 So you can or can't use cm with fidanza.

Preliminary yes. But that is dependent on custom throwout bearing design.

Originally Posted by laxplayermjd Are you a employee of CM or aasco? When will we be able to view this options with pricing etc? Basically everything is still mythical at this point.

Negative and Negative. And mythical to you yes. Reality to me. If someone wants OEM pp paired with upgraded discs then I have torque values and pricing ready to go. CM products are not complete as we are still working on final design.

[SgtP]

hurry up CM!!!

[Tech/Sales@EM]

Originally Posted by SgtP hurry up CM!!!

Its not them taking awhile, the throwout bearing got lost in transit so I am waiting for a fellow mazdaspeeder to ship them one for me. Probably quicker if I just have them buy one from a local dealer and dropped off than to wait tho. Ill do that today.

[SgtP]

As long as progress is being made I am happy!

[Tech/Sales@EM]

Clutch should be here by Friday next week for fitment and testing.

[4G63]

Originally Posted by MazdaMadness Clutch should be here by Friday next week for fitment and testing.

What are the parts/materials that you will be using for the first test clutch setup?

[Tech/Sales@EM]

Custom throwout bearing, 2500lb pp, either 6puck ceramic or segmented kevler disc, Aluminum LWFW