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clutch misery 1 Attachment(s) I have a major clutch issue that brings me back to Forum. It's a bit of a long story, involving 4 different clutches, 4 shitty outcomes, 18 weeks of shop time and about $6,000! At this point I have just 1 simple question to ask any member who might know wtf they're talking about. I have run the gauntlet on clutches in this shit wagon and I've been ass-whupped every frickin time! Can anyone with some clutch savvy help the old man? Arigato Attachment 230761 |
Nobody can tell you shit unless you tell us what's going on :P |
It's not happy with you because you called it a shit wagon. Go outside and tell it you're sorry. |
I think you have a shit mechanic |
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So since you spent $6k for a $300 job + $500parts, I'd say to start over and: - buy a new clutch kit; - buy a new slave cylinder; - buy a new master cylinder; - buy some new fresh brake fluid to bleed the whole system; - get to a shop with real mechanics; - WIN. Whatever the problem is (you didn't even mention it) there's no way you can't fix it replacing the above. FFS, for $6k you could have built your car into a stock block 400 crank HP monster including the clutch job! ...And still have about $1-2k in your pocket! |
OK, OK...at 85K, the release bearing disintegrated, and took the stock clutch and bell housing journal with it. Knowing I was planning an engine build, and on the advice of the first 'shitty' mechanic (dealership), replaced the bell housing ($$$) installed ACT kit & flywheel. That shit lasted about 8K mi before going down to the rivets. (I'm a peaceful old man. I don't race!) Replaced with a Clutchmasters 3 at the local speed/tuner shop ($$$) this time. Then, a high-pressure coolant loss caused a spun rod bearing and that was the end of the engine. Shipped the car out of state for the engine build ($$$$$$$$$$$$$)(sorry, mituc , you might do it for that in Romainia, but you won't get anyone in the US to do it for that) but when it was finished (12 weeks), they "just couldn't get the clutch to work properly?". Clutchmasters refunded and a Spec 2 kit/flywheel installed ($$$). That one never made it off the lift.."spring tension, shaft length, tolerances, clamp??, "just won't engage properly!" Spec refunded and replaced with new Spec 3+/flywheel. This is the fourth clutch, in case you're not counting, and it worked fine until last week...when the throw out bearing disintegrated and took the Spec 3+ with it. (This is a recording) The book calls for 8 hrs ($110/hr @ the speed/tuner shop) to R/R clutch and I cannot do the work myself, so...can I put a STOCK kit into it using the Spec flywheel?:facepalm2: I think I've had enough of the "high performance" clutch market. Oh, I can't adequately apologize to my wonderful little shit wagon cause it's 40 mi away, sitting out in the back lot of the dyno shop. |
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Anybody there? No help for the old guy? |
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Why are you not using a stock clutch disc with stock flywheel and pressure plate? |
Stop taking car to stupid mechanics and do the job yourself? |
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As to OP I ain't got a new clue but I'm not anywhere close to an expert |
Didn't see that part in his wall of text. To OP, what's the reason for being unable to DIY? Where are you located? I'm sure a couple local speed guys wouldn't mind coming to help out and save you a good amount of money. Especially after what you've already spent. |
If you were close to Chicago I would help you. Find someone close to you from local nator, offer beer money and win. |
If you are completely stock in the engine and don't plan on heavy mods, I'd just stick with a stock clutch. No reason to go with the bigger clutches unless you plan to use them within the inch of their power tolerance. And check the entire system master, slave. How are your TOB disintegrating? I'm trying to figure that out. I just pulled my engine with over 80k on the clutch and it looks like I just broke in the clutch. Lol Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Thanks guys. I can't find any non-"stupid" mechanics, I don't have the facilities, tools, balls or know-how to DYI, and I am not near Chicago. Does anyone know if I can getaway with using a stock clutch kit with the Spec flywheel (still in the car, undamaged) or not? The factory flywheel is a dual mass monstrosity & costs $1000+. |
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The engine is anything but stock. I spent a small fortune having it built and it is tuned for 308whp/325tq. I'm told that a stock clutch will handle that, NP. I hear you about your clutch. I took my stock clutch out at 85K some time ago and the damn thing hardly looked used! That's why I want to go back to stock! |
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I need to know what to tell these guys to do first thing tomorrow! Help! |
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You can buy a new OEM clutch (made by LUK) for $200+ dollars. You just need to pair it up with a flywheel, like the fidanza. Also, something is not right if you are destroying clutches that fast As I said you need to find someone local from this forum who is willing to help. We won't be able to help you if you don't have the car and can't do any of the work. Frankly, it may be best to sell the car as is and move on. You will just keep wasting your money away. For the amount of money you have spent you could have bought a newer focus ST and added extended warranty on top of it. Without mods the car would be hassle free. |
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- OEM VVT pinion: 350EUR here (about $370), 110$ inthe US; - timing chain: 140EUR here (around $150), $40 in the US, even if it's made in Italy, so 300 miles to the left or so. The labour is cheaper at least here in Romania, but it doesn't even out even by far with the cost of the parts (even if I get pretty much all the parts from the US, I still have to add about +25% tax + shipping fees on top of that). An engine rebuild here with all the parts sourced from the US (a normal build with rods, pistons, bearings, timing kit, gaskets, oil pump, various bits) costs about $7k in parts + labour, while you've spent $6k so far for the engine rebuild + a few sets of clutches :) Anyway, my point was that for $6k you could have build a monster stock block (so no engine rebuild, just a larger turbo, meth kit, intake, exhaust, tune). Quote:
Spec Stage3 is also overkill, I've had a Stage2+ paired with an OEM FW and apart from going to fully disengaged to fully engaged in less than an inch of clutch pedal travel which made it pretty weird in dumper to bumper traffic it was fine otherwise. More importantly, whatever clutch you get, fit it right. Considering that the release bearing exploded once you should consider replacing the clutch fork as well. The average life of an ACT kit is around 20-25k miles, yours being completely worn after 8 makes me thing of various issues you may have (slave cylinder, master cylinder, clutch lines). |
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I meant no aversion to Romania or your enthusiasm. $6000 is about what I have spent, so far, on clutch issues after installing the $12,000 engine. Thanks for the pep talk though...I think I feel better. Do you know if I can use a stock clutch kit with a Spec flywheel? |
$12,000 engine? WTF? You could get a built motor from SP63 for like $6k with a new longblock without reusing your core. Anyway, sounds like you probably have a problem with the snout on your transmission, people have run into scoring issues here, if it's out of tolerance that could be an issue. Also I'm not sure of stock TOB compatibility but I know there's been a lot of issues with non stock TOB's you wouldn't be the first. Mituc has it right, southbend is known to be pretty good too but has also had issues with some peoples cars. Something isn't right if you're going through clutches that fast, figure that out first. |
Thanks, Omega. This snout tolerance, non stock TOB bearing thing is starting to look more and more interesting. I relayed it to the shop and they're tearing everything apart to have a closer look at what has been done previously by other mechs. I still don't know what to do as far as next clutch? Yeah, it was a brand-new, factory MZR DISI long block, disassembled and built (wiseco, pauter, heads, etc.) @$95/hr + new turbo, manifolds, DP, plumbing, accessories !!! I didn't realize, at the time, what I was doing...I just kept paying |
Yeah it's problematic, I'm pretty sure most clutch kits can use the stock throwout bearing, but check with the MFR of the clutch kit you use... There's something around somewhere about how to fix the transmission snout stuff (I don't really know much about it). On a second note I'm guessing that's your plane? Just kept paying... will you adopt me? I need some discretionary spending :P - I kid I kid, all jokes aside it happens sometimes and I get not having time to work on it. Joining the forums sooner could've saved you a lot of hard earned $$ and disaster. |
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However, the general consensus is that the best aftermarket FW for the factory clutch kit is the Fidanza. IMHO if you don't get a SouthBend stage 1/2, the Fidanza FW + OEM PP+disk+TOB is the way to go. But as stated already, make sure the mechanic you hand your car over to also checks the other things from the clutch assembly and mechanism: lines, pumps, fork, whatever. It's highly unusual for someone to go through so many clutches in such a short amount of time even with built cars doing weekly drag strip sessions. |
Yikes I thought my clutch problems were bad, yeah like mituc has been saying, go SouthBend or Fidanza/LuK. I have had my SouthBend Stg 3 Enduro installed for about 400mi now and love it, just hate the no-boost break in for another 4-500mi. Be prepared for gearbox chatter with the lightweight flywheel though. |
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Kinda how I felt, but after seeing some other threads with invoices.... It wouldn't surprise me (remember TORQ motorsports? He had a 10k bill lol) |
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Or, if you don't mind spending another grand get a Southbend Stage 2 Endurance. I have had zero issues with mine. Good luck! Now if I had $12K to spend on a motor.....good god. The thought makes me horny. |
Buy the Luk Kit Buy a Fidanza flywheel Buy a Mazda OEM TOB. Make sure they grease the Mazda OEM TOB, shaft, lever, etc. during install. *Stop riding the clutch* Throw it in neutral and get off the clutch at lights, and don't drag out shifts. I suspect your repeated failures are because you think you're being nice by shifting slowly, and not changing to neutral at lights. |
I was thinking driver mod as well. |
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Gotta hit 100 posts and then do a yard sale... |
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Also OP replace your shift fork |
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Thanks MoMS3...and no, let's hope the LuK pressure plate is a mother-lovin' pressure plate and does adjust properly and does behave itself. BTW, I didn't really have $12,000 to spend on an engine...that's just what it ended up costing me.:grumpy: I've learned a lot of very hard lessons the hard way, there won't be a 'next time!' |
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http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...-forum-125031/ |
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