Clutch opinions for Gen1 MS3 that are not like doing a leg press

[Raider]

Time has come for me to replace my clutch . 89,000 miles and 6th slipping dropped to 4th on a freeway merge. Tax returned found way to my car.

Now what makes this different for me than any other thread, is that I need to have one that is not gonna kill my knee. I got my knees all cracked up, so having to jam on it to shift is not really desired. Nothing like 4 heavy car crashes (knees into metal dash), working as a cable tech, and just plain Dollar Tree DNA has left me virtually no cartilage in my knees. Getting old sucks.

Other than the OEM replacement (yikes at OEM flywheel cost!) anyone have aftermarket experience in their swap that is not painful? Google search got nothing.

Oh, I have read enough of the light flywheel chatter. Really don't want that at all.


Update 4/2015. Clutch installed. Here is what I ultimately ended up getting a South Bend Stage 2 Daily Driver clutch kit at EdgeAutosport.com, plus a pile of OEM stuff per recommendations here. OEM parts were also ordered through Edge. I initially skipped the slave cylinder, only to have it fail in 20 miles after install. It is common. Do not skip that. I had to overnight it for work, so just add it when you order.

1 x South Bend Clutch Stage 2 Daily Clutch Kit w/ Flywheel Mazdaspeed 3 2007-2013 / Mazdaspeed 6 2006-2007
6 x Mazda OEM Flywheel Bolt Mazdaspeed 3 2007-2013 / Mazdaspeed 6 2006-2007
1 x Redline High Temp Synthetic Grease
2 x Mazda OEM Transmission Seal Mazdaspeed 3 (Makes sure you get 1 driver's side, 1 passenger's side. They are different!.
3 x Redline MT-90 75w90 Transmission Oil Quart
1 x Mazda OEM Pilot Bearing Mazdaspeed 3 2007-2013 / Mazdaspeed 6 2006-2007
1 x Mazda OEM Release Bearing Mazdaspeed 3 2007-2013 / Mazdaspeed 6 2006-2007
1 x Mazda OEM Release Fork Mazdaspeed 3 2007-2013 / Mazdaspeed 6 2006-2007
1 x Mazda OEM Rear Main Seal Mazdaspeed 3 2007-2013 / Mazdaspeed 6 2006-2007
1 x Mazda OEM Slave Cylinder MS3 (DO THIS OR DO IT IN 20 MILES AFTER IT CRAPS ITSELF!)
3 Gallons of Rotella T6 5W40 full synthetic (used 6 quarts). (locally sourced)
4 quarts of high temp brake fluid. (locally sourced)

Initial impressions after slave replaced and everything proper, LOVE IT. Will post more later.

[jonspeed3]

damn bro, my stock clutch is on 128k miles and still going strong. I literally WOT all the time. Best of luck bro, and definitely gonna keep on eye on this thread because inevitably mine will go soon-ish.

[Raider]

Yeah it's just par for the course. VVT/Chain replaced 3,000 miles ago. Next the turbo as that is 8 years old too.

[Agent_Orange]

[Cataphract_40]

I've heard good things about South Bend - good enough that I bought one. I'm planning on getting it installed first thing on Monday, so I should have some feedback for you on Tuesday.

Paying a shop to do it because NO WAY do I have the free time/patience for that job.

[Raider]

Yeah I got local guy doing it for $385. Just need all the stuff.

[Easter Bunny]

Buy a cx-7 to save your knee? Better get something good since we know when the turbo goes your going bnr s3.

[Raider]

1) donate
2) wife had CX-7 for years. Was good. But not for me.

[Easter Bunny]

Ill donate when you post topless pics of yourself in VIP............

Cx-7 transmission in the speed3

[Spec]

Southbend "stage 3" felt pretty stock to me. I was coming off of the act 6 puck hd pressure plate and prolite flywheel , so maybe the SB is a tad stiffer than stock. SB seems to use the factory pressure plate, not sure if they tweaked it or just masked it off and painted it but, it looks the God damn same. Anyhow, if the stock clutch pedal serves you well, the SB should be fine for your knee.
What I would suggest, if your not worried about upgrading the flywheel, is find a used one from a source you trust hasn't turned it 2 or 3 times and find a shop that will actually turn a dual mass flywheel.

If you can find a shop that can turn a dm flywheel and you can wait for it to be turned while your car is dismantled, turn yours. (duh)

Since it will all be torn apart, get a rear main seal, axle seals and check all the bushings and balls joints, especially if you're going to drop the subframe you'll need an alignment so, no point in finding out later you need that shit when it was already off the car and could be replaced. Also a good time to swap out/upgrade front sway bar or Fsb bushings, whiteline lca anti lifts ?
have one or two axle nuts on hand. I took one off and somehow it was stripped and I uhh I uhh I took one of my Honda, I know.. I know but I was Fucked otherwise because no place had one. Axle was fine. Also, magnetic drain plug if you desire for the tranny.
Higher milage cars, I've even replace the shift fork, after a while some bend slightly and you can't really tell by eyeballing it but you won't get maximum travel if it is. Namean


Make sure the correct grease is used on the splines of the trans input shaft too, if it isn't it'll cake up and the throw out bearing will stick. I use oem throw out bearings, I never trust the ones supplied with aftermarket clutches. I also apply a 'light' layer of synthetic (800*?)high temp grease on the splines of the axles going into the hub. I'm able to push it out with my finger when I take the axle nut off, your future self will thank me.

I'm aware you just asked for clutch opinions but, thought I'd give you things to consider while it is in peices.

[Spec]

Originally Posted by Roddiy @Raider; I have a stock flywheel I can ship out to you for cheap, you can have it resurfaced and it'll be way cheaper than a full replacement. Other than that, my experience is limited to the 6-puck, which is really not that bad. Everyone that has driven my car insists it's how the car should have came from the factory.

I agree unless your knee is bad, I'm sure it'll be noticeable if you already grit your teeth a little from the pain of the stock clutch pedal.

[Raider]

I've had a Hotchkis FSB for about 8 years. I bet it needs lube. Installed brackets not realizing the zirc fittings were turned to where I could not reach. I'll grab a new main and axle seals. Axle nuts, that's nuts! Lol. I'll be finally swapping an axle then too.

Guess I'll need to get a Dimple for the trans too. Have one in the motor. Good idea.

Gonna swap the Throwout bearing too, right? All my old clutches did them at the same time.

As for the fork, is it easy? I wanna say it requires opening it up.

And funny thing, I was looking at South Bend. Searched for reviews,
The Southbend Clutch INFO Thread

Really helpful. I'm torn between daily and endurance.

I'm not gimpy and shit with my knee, but after 8 hours of driving a few years ago, they were both a mess. No AT conversion.

[Spec]

I'm not sure of your situation with the zerk but, they make 90* fittings if that will help. Something I read once, and it works, use Teflon tape, like 2 wraps around the sway bar and marine grease. Turns the tape into a hot mess and it stays greasy a long ass time since the grease is resistant to weather.

There are two bearings , the throw out and pilot. Throw out is on the spline of the trans and the other is a needle bearing that sits inside of the crank and the input shaft rests on it after being inserted through the clutch assembky. At your mileage, I'd do both. The throw out bearing sits on the shift fork and and it sticks out the front of the trans, when the Trans is off, you can see the entire fork. It's held on by a spring type mechanism that doesn't look like it works, but it does lol. Double and triple check that the throw out bearing is locked in on both sides. Nothing like getting the feeling like you should have checked it again once it's back together lol

Double triple check the direction of the clutch disc, it matters and can be installed backward ...

Also very important , you'll need new flywheel bolts and pressure plate bolts. Some kits come with them so check, because they are tty (torque to yeild) they can be checked and reused but, I don't trust them and most recommend against this practice as well.

You probably don't need a fork but, it's cheap and it's apart and you really don't know if it's bent without a new one next to it. I'm a "hey why not" kind of guy so this is up to you.

I've heard, never seen it happen, that someone had filled the crank where the pilot bearing sits with grease and used a dowel pin the same diameter of the I.D and hit it with a hammer and hydraulically removed it lol. You may need a tool to take it out though, my car had 20k on it so I left it alone and didn't replace it. Just dabbed some new grease on it and rock and rolled.

[Nel Mazdaspeed]

I have SB STG3 DD, ask terry and Danny how it feels.. lol
Its very heavy comparing to stock and if you ever get stuck in traffic with your bad knee youre gonna curse life, park the car and walk home.. lol
Otherwise, the engagement is amazing, at the track it hooks like nobodys business. I haven't quite reached the power handling capacity and frankly I don't plan to so i should be just fine
Oh and it does not come with a throwout bearing.. I bought an exedy since theyre said to be quiet.

[Spec]

Oh, another item to be sure and check. Make sure the threads on the crank and flywheel are clean and free of rust or debris. It can affect torque of the fasteners, you don't want this to happen and you won't know until it backs out.
Inspect the clutch kit for any defects. Rivets holding the clutch together and anything else that looks weird. Don't want to find this defect with your transmission sitting on the earth. My act, I forgot to do this and I had wear marks on the rivets holding the pucks on.

[cyclist20]

After reading this, thus far I would recommend the following:
1. Drive to Houston
2. Do whatever @Spec; says. Provide beer and/or hand jobs for services.

After reading his post, I can't imagine anyone else giving enough of a shit to do it right. He seems tedious, thorough, and as anal retentive as I am.

Good luck with the search

[Spec]

Originally Posted by cyclist20 After reading this, thus far I would recommend the following: 1. Drive to Houston 2. Do whatever @Spec; says. Provide beer and/or hand jobs for services. After reading his post, I can't imagine anyone else giving enough of a shit to do it right. He seems tedious, thorough, and as anal retentive as I am. Good luck with the search

Na, he'd get tennis elbow from the hand job and not be able to shift or push a clutch in. Then it's autotragic transmission for sure and the other option isn't viable because I don't drink(anymore) . I don't mind if you drink if it helps you cope with the hand job.

[TiGraySpeed6]

You planning on racing & launching all the time? Massive power build in your future?

No? Then just get the LuK and quit farting around. You know it works, you know it lasts forfuckingever and you know it's as easy on the knee as anything using a clutch is gonna be. Get that stock FW from Roddiy and you're set.

[btstarcher]

OEM clutch is a very good clutch. I'm going with it again on my 5th engine. Although I will say that upgrading to a lightweight single-mass flywheel was worth it. Get the OEM clutch kit and Fidanza unless you're going to go with a big turbo in the near future. You know, not even litle big turbo; OEM will handle about 400wtq. My 1st OEM clutch still had plenty of life left after 115k miles on it.

My OEM flywheel came apart last time and I'll never get another one. Didn't even last 50k miles.

[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by Spec Na, he'd get tennis elbow from the hand job

He can just use his left hand.

[Spec]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny He can just use his left hand.

Apparently you weren't in my gym class or you'd know he couldn't.

[802MS3]

I have the SB stage3 endurance, and it is most definitely heavier than stock. I'd estimate at least 50%. Its not bad by any means, and I actually like it a lot, but I could see it being an issue for someone with knee problems.

+1 to what TiGray says, OEM is cheap, works great, is light on the knee, and Roddiy can hook you up with a DM FW. Done and done.

[Spec]

I just realized I'm an idiot, well not just now but, I just remembered I was an idiot. The clutch I installed was going to be a southbend, I put one of those in my friends gti. I ended up getting the Spec stage 3 clutch. Which Is why I was scratching my head when the other guys mentioned the pedal was stiffer. The Spec clutch pressure plate looks identical to oem and works with stock flywheel. If I hadn't gone from Act 6 puck to the Spec, I could offer a stock to Spec pedal comparison but, it's not bad at all. Perhaps today, more peeps will chime in. I know @Voltwings; had a Spec with lock out issues but when he sold his built engine , the @kashbringer; I don't think has had an issue. (driver mod?) lol

I sold my car to a close friend and I just drove it the other day and it didn't feel weird, after not driving a stick for 6 months. Caught a nice 4th gear chirp.

[JgamB]

I have knee problems also and have this same concern. I've only felt a couple of aftermarket clutches, but the ACT 6 puck in @Jonathanhair07; 's car felt just a touch heavier than stock. The other is a Kentucky clutch in @nindoja; 's MS6, and that thing is extremely heavy. I expect it to rip his clutch pedal off the firewall like I've seen happen to a few others.

[tegxsi]

My knee acts up from time to time and my car goes through stop and go traffic often. It would be nice to hear some opinions on aftermarket clutches. Honestly, anything with Stage 1+ in the name makes me cringe.

Edit: Fuck racecar, my knee hurts

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by Spec I just realized I'm an idiot, well not just now but, I just remembered I was an idiot. The clutch I installed was going to be a southbend, I put one of those in my friends gti. I ended up getting the Spec stage 3 clutch. Which Is why I was scratching my head when the other guys mentioned the pedal was stiffer. The Spec clutch pressure plate looks identical to oem and works with stock flywheel. If I hadn't gone from Act 6 puck to the Spec, I could offer a stock to Spec pedal comparison but, it's not bad at all. Perhaps today, more peeps will chime in. I know @Voltwings; had a Spec with lock out issues but when he sold his built engine , the @kashbringer; I don't think has had an issue. (driver mod?) lol I sold my car to a close friend and I just drove it the other day and it didn't feel weird, after not driving a stick for 6 months. Caught a nice 4th gear chirp.

I didnt have time to read this thread, i just had to glance and give my .02 real quick.

The spec stage 3 was "comfortable" on the street, it was stiffer than stock, but not awful. The only time i hated driving it on the street was when i got stuck in bad traffic for 45 minutes to an hour and honestly had to start working it with my right leg because i have shin splints... that was rough.

That being said, i would never and will never own another spec clutch. Mine gave me nothing but problems from the second i had it installed, and i know @Tomas; had the same issue i believe, as well as a friend on a completely different platform.

When going WOT, i could have the clutch on the floor and leave it there, go for 4th from 3rd and just scratch, no gear at all. If i shifted slow, or shifted sub 6500 it would let me in, but whats the point at that rate? I have a friend with a ~400 whp saturn sky redline and he was having the same issue and actually had to replace his transmission. On tear down, they measured and apparently the spec ... gah its been so long i cant remember and dont want to be wrong, but SOMETHING was not the proper distance, clearance, tolerance, whichever and was impacting his ability to shift. The same issue across 2 platforms is enough for me to say no deal. Plus, they aren't exactly cheap... i paid $1100 for the clutch and flywheel.

Edit: i also just remembered, i could have the clutch pedal fully pushed in, and go to put the car in 1st and the car would start creeping forward with the pedal still to the floor. No slave cylinder issues on the car.

[Raider]

I think I am going to go South Bend Daily clutch package. Yes, OEM is fine, like LUK. But piecing a ton of shit together is gonna be easier when I can call Edge, get all my OEM replacement stuff, seals, TOB, etc, the kit, and just need to source the high temp grease.

My knees are not so bad that shifting sucks all together, I just don't need a stage 6, 16 puck, teflon diamond plated clutch that can snap a femur downshifting.

Now to get my tax $, and blow it on hookers and blow. And maybe a clutch.

[Roddiy]

Originally Posted by Raider , I just don't need a stage 6, 16 puck, teflon diamond plated clutch that can snap a femur downshifting.

I forgot you're an old fuck, go easy on the hip grandpa

[Spec]

I found a clutch for you raider. A Barbie clutch. Hurr Hurr Hurr

[btstarcher]

Edge recommended the OEM for me; the clutch kit comes with everything except the flywheel. I'm telling ya man, it's a good solution for MUCH cheaper. And it will almost certainly last longer.

[BlackFlag]

Originally Posted by Raider Time has come for me to replace my clutch . 89,000 miles and 6th slipping dropped to 4th on a freeway merge. Tax returned found way to my car. Now what makes this different for me than any other thread, is that I need to have one that is not gonna kill my knee. I got my knees all cracked up, so having to jam on it to shift is not really desired. Nothing like 4 heavy car crashes (knees into metal dash), working as a cable tech, and just plain Dollar Tree DNA has left me virtually no cartilage in my knees. Getting old sucks. Other than the OEM replacement (yikes at OEM flywheel cost!) anyone have aftermarket experience in their swap that is not painful? Google search got nothing. Oh, I have read enough of the light flywheel chatter. Really don't want that at all. Post up what ya run.

Search NOOB!

[Raider]

Originally Posted by BlackFlag Originally Posted by Raider Time has come for me to replace my clutch . 89,000 miles and 6th slipping dropped to 4th on a freeway merge. Tax returned found way to my car. Now what makes this different for me than any other thread, is that I need to have one that is not gonna kill my knee. I got my knees all cracked up, so having to jam on it to shift is not really desired. Nothing like 4 heavy car crashes (knees into metal dash), working as a cable tech, and just plain Dollar Tree DNA has left me virtually no cartilage in my knees. Getting old sucks. Other than the OEM replacement (yikes at OEM flywheel cost!) anyone have aftermarket experience in their swap that is not painful? Google search got nothing. Oh, I have read enough of the light flywheel chatter. Really don't want that at all. Post up what ya run. Search NOOB!

I highlighted the part you obviously missed.

[TiGraySpeed6]

nb4 raider posting about his clutch sucks & shoulda gone with the LuK....

But that ain't none of my business....

TiGray- proud member of the old & semi-crippled club. Bad hips & wasted back here, and there are morning where I put some serious pondering into just how much less it would hurt, and how much faster the shifts are, with a good DSG unit...

[Raider]

I would need the OEM flywheel, and I do not want to bother resurfacing something that has everything I read saying nope. And chatter is crap, I don't got time to explain to my kids what squeak is coming from the dash as it is, let alone "what that noise is" to everyone else, lol.

[kashbringer]

Originally Posted by Voltwings I didnt have time to read this thread, i just had to glance and give my .02 real quick. The spec stage 3 was "comfortable" on the street, it was stiffer than stock, but not awful. The only time i hated driving it on the street was when i got stuck in bad traffic for 45 minutes to an hour and honestly had to start working it with my right leg because i have shin splints... that was rough. That being said, i would never and will never own another spec clutch. Mine gave me nothing but problems from the second i had it installed, and i know @Tomas; had the same issue i believe, as well as a friend on a completely different platform. Edit: i also just remembered, i could have the clutch pedal fully pushed in, and go to put the car in 1st and the car would start creeping forward with the pedal still to the floor. No slave cylinder issues on the car.

This mother fucker here sellin' me some fucked up shit. LMAO J/King..
I do run into the car wanting to creep in first with the pedal down but only ever once in a while... I never get locked out if FFSing but trying to shift super fast it has happened rarely but that could just be me. Anyways... normal driving isn't bad at all but after an hour in traffic it gets rough on the leg.

[BlackFlag]

I hope you realize I was joking....

[Raider]

Yup. BAN!

[BlackFlag]

Originally Posted by Raider Yup. BAN!

Not if I ban you first!

I'm haltechs undercover, I suggest you play nice

[Cataphract_40]

Minor correction - the clutch is getting installed on Wednesday. So I should be able to give you some feedback either Wednesday afternoon or Thursday.

[btstarcher]

Originally Posted by Raider I would need the OEM flywheel, and I do not want to bother resurfacing something that has everything I read saying nope. And chatter is crap, I don't got time to explain to my kids what squeak is coming from the dash as it is, let alone "what that noise is" to everyone else, lol.

No chatter at all with the Fidanza flywheel. Works great with OEM clutch kit, everything is included: pilot bearing, release bearing, pressure plate, clutch disc. And the Fidanza can be resurfaced, unlike the OEM flywheel, so you can reuse it when you just need to replace the clutch.