Could it really be this easy? Crc intake valve cleaner for gdi engines!
 

So while grabbing some carburetor cleaner for my weed trimmer at AutoZone today I noticed this little can. I think the picture explains it all.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...1&d=1401550092

Could clean valves really be this simple? It may work , but can't say without testing so I purchased a can. I have about 10,000 miles since my last cleaning when I installed my tig. I think it's a good idea for a product if it works. The instructions say to remove the air filter, raise idle to 2000 rpm, insert straw past the maf sensor and spray for 30 seconds at a time till the can is empty. Then it says to rev engine to 3500 rpm 2-3 times let idle for 1 minute then shut off. Install air filter, let car sit for 1 hour then drive car at highway speed for 10 minutes.

Says it's safe to spray through intercooler and turbos.

I'll give it a try and report back.

Interesting. Subbed for results. Too bad its suck a pain to remove the mainifold. I would love to see before and after pics.

Could it really be this easy? Crc intake valve cleaner for gdi engines!
 

Seems kool i would try it. If anything its like a seaform but maybe better

Subbed for results

Why not just spray it down into the nipple (blue clip) on the IM by the fans? Cuts out all the travel time from the intake.

I was thinking the same thing, you might have vacuum issues running though. I have a spot on my hot pipe I could use to at least skip the turbo. Someone with pre TB meth bungs might be able to use those as well.

I would worry about the spray not getting at all the valves evenly if spraying directly in the manifold. I know this is a downfall to seafoam. I think it's best to be done pre throttle body for proper atomization.

Going to buy some right meow. Nice find, just watched their video explaining the voodoo. I'm a little apprehensive as I've seen all kinds of shit tossed at the valves but usually ending up using a pick to get them clean.

Have you seen Mazda Zoom cleaner at work before?

I use it and spray a half can into that nipple .... Not sure it works but it cleans up my idle a little bit. I can't see it NOT working being that close to the intake valves.

Good point

This looks fun.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/01/du8a4y7e.jpgust tRied it i will let u know how it works.

So who's gonna be the one to pull the IM and take before & after pics?

Not sure that stuff is safe for throttle bodies though.

I might be able to be persuaded to take the TB off and use a bore scope - if it'll get past the VCTS. I don't plan to pull the IM until I've got TIGs in hand.

My car probably isn't all that dirty though with only 18k on the odo.

Oh, it is dirty.

Yeah, 18k with no OCC = dirty as fuck.

it would have to be if you use it at the air filter, wouldn't it?

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I ran across this product on a website.
Injected Engineering - Direct Injection Intake DE-Carbon kit

Oh, I thought I read MAP sensor, not MAF.

This sure looks like a hypertech

http://injectedstore.com/collections...sel-titanium-1

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I wish this worked, but the website says "removes up to 23% of deposits...", so realistically, its gonna remove 10-15%? Thats not really much...

Hahaha just repeat...7 times

Well did this today and car feels smoother and idle is better. As far as cleaning the vavles??? I doubt it but ill enjoy the smoother ride

You can just tilt the mani back enough to see the valves if anyone wanted to try it that way.

I cheated and put in my thermal intake gasket in like that.

I'm pretty sure it works, I have 131k and I SF'd my car every 1k till about 115-120K (started on about 70K) and I've noticed a little diff since I've stopped.

Placebo, I don't think so. Then again, I go through plugs once a year if not earlier. Just save a set of plugs for the treatments. my 2¢

113k, valves never been touched lol. Even that 23% would be huge for me. @Opdahl; we should try this.

I don't even wanna know what my valves look like with 75k never being touched.

Seems like a smart move for someone with low miles and at every oil change or so. NEED before and after pics, for sure.

Okay I just used a can, and after the 3,500 RPM my car belched white smoke lol. So I guess it kinda removed some carbon build up? Or somehow this stuff blew my turbo lol.

Subbed.

Hopeful for before&after pics!

White smoke doesn't = burnt intake deposits.

Sprays thru intake... Thru turbo... Thru piping... Thru intercooler... Past manifold and hits the valves strong enough to actually clean anything... Any one who has actually tried cleaning their valves by hand will see where this "miracle cure" falls flat on its face in such a ridiculous manner.
Inforfuckedturbosealsandmafsensors

This. Valve deposits on these cars are nasty. Soaking them overnight in B12 hardly softens the outer crust. Having a cleaner pour over the valves for a split second isn't doing anything. Stop wasting money.

in4results

This tread is worthless without pictures(before and after).

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Take a before and after log...

Would that not prove (in a small way) less obstruction?

Seems easier than removing IM.

I can see this being helpful on a brand new car OR on one that had the valves cleaned, as preventative maintenance. Say once every oil change should (could) help prevent build up.
Other than that would you want and huge, sticky clump of carbon poo going through the combustion chamber and turbo?
I may be misunderstanding the properties of this can of cleaner though.

My experience too. Chemtool B12 is strong shit. I had to soak each valve and then scrub with a 12 gauge shotgun wire bore brush, flush out with gasoline, repeat B12, repear scrub, reflush, and blow dry with compressed air x 4 cylinders. About 4 hours of work on top of the R&R of the manifold.

No brief chemical flush is going to do much good. The carbon is very hard.

^that's the point... you don't wants chunks going into those areas.

I used Mazda zoom engine carbon cleaner. 1 hour soak, gooped off thick and nasty.

Then what is the point? Other than to pour ten bucks through your intake?

Someone run that through the intake

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lol, easy and DISI are two words that do not mix

To slowly get it out... not dynamite it out. It's a maint thing

I run it through the IM. If that's what you are referring to.

Hence why you don't spray it before the maf, the straw goes behind the maf. Also.... Turbo seals are metal on metal. Nothing that can be harmed by chemicals.
I'm trying to borrow a borescope and see if I can do some before and after pics.

You are smart enough to know that.... But a newb with a cai that just takes off the filter will spray it all over the maf... And really a turbo compleatly seals metal on metal...
Understand that even spraying GALLONS of meth right at the throttle body BARELY cleans already dirty valves... And does a meh/ok job of keeping them clean after... What do u think 16oz of alchohol going to do after a spinning fan, a baffle system and 6ft of pipe.
Dont get me wrong I really hope this does some thing but i aint holding my breath.

no, i meant that i want someone to run the zoom zoom cleaner through the valves since it works best for cleaning. i'm assuming it's combustible.

i'm not going to try it, of course.

after cleaning my fair share of intake valves, i will promise you this stuff isnt go clean any of that carbon built up over thousands of miles of driving. That shit thats fossilized on your valves.

Now ive soaked valves in b12, over night (and b12 aint no pussy shit either) the only thing that will bust that carbon off is some fucking elbow grease.

Then why not run a catch can and not risk destroying your sensors? I seriously doubt pouring this through the intake will even take light deposits off of previously cleaned valves.

Because a catch can won't stop the issue. The issue is there is no fuel touching/cleaning your valves, so some carbon from combustion gets stuck on there

EGR delete is more effective for keeping the rear of the valves clean, imo. vs a catch can.

But together (EGR del and OCC/AOS) with a maint schedule should help more than nothing.

What are these sensors you speak of?

Ok, I just picked up some of this stuff. My car has been getting progressively slower (with shittier MPG to match) as of late with 35k on the odometer. I've got a really dumb question. The instructions state that the fluid is to be sprayed into the intake via an included tube so as to avoid hitting the MAF sensor. 1500-2000rpm is to be maintained during the spraying process. If I'm doing this solo, how do I hold a raised rpm? I can either spray or use the throttle. Doing both is not really an option. To anyone that has done this... will it still work if it is sprayed at idle?

If this doesn't work, I'm going to break down and do an actual valve cleaning with the intake manifold off, but figured this was worth a try first. It looks like just an enhanced version of Seafoam (which I've never done), so it can only help if anything.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_T-arlQhEsB..._in_bottom.jpg you need one of these.

Go to atr and set idle to 2k. Done

OK, managed to get give this stuff a try after finding a way to prop the accelerator pedal with an old snowscraper (ingenuity FTW). The spraying had to be done slowly as the engine stumbled a bit if I sprayed for more than 10 or so seconds at a time. After finishing the spray job, I let the car sit for an hour before taking it out for a spirited drive. Results: nothing. No Seafoam-like smoke, no improvement in throttle response, nothing. I guess there's no way out of doing a real valve cleaning.

So i finally got around to using the stuff. I will say that spraying it through the intake before the turbo is useless/pointless. It wouldn't draw it in well enough at all. It kept pooling and running out of my maf housing. So I decided to give it a try at the intake manifold. I used the port for the recirc/bov and that is the perfect spot for this IMO. I have a brass Tee in that hose for my boost gauge so I just stuck the straw in there and with the idle at 2k rpm let it go for 30 second intervals. I got smoke like I have never seen with seafoam before. I finished up the can and am letting the car sit as we speak. Will report back after driving it.

[IMG]http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/s...psc3853b1e.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/s...psf64b0029.jpg[/IMG]

Picks of valves?

Ok, so this non scientific test has my initial stamp of approval. Ideally before and after pics of the valves would be taken. That is for someone else to do.

My impressions upon driving the car after the 1 hour wait time. Car initially felt worse. Drove a few block to a faster road, a little smoke from the tail pipe, but not bad. Chemical smell was present. Drove 10 mins at about 45-55 mph, came back to neighborhood streets for stop and go driving. Car deffinetly has smoother low throttle response but wasnt bad before. I did notice the little hick up the car made at idle every now and then isn't here anymore but a few more days driving will help figure this out.

I have 2,600 miles left till my next oil change. I will make this test more of a long term project now as I will run the cleaner again just before my next oil change(this makes 12,000 miles since I last pulled the manifold to clean the valves) and then I will pull the manifold and take some pictures of how the valves look.

I'm going to flat out say that this product won't replace doing a real valve cleaning if you have lots of miles on your motor. But it may be a good way to keep them clean if used every 3,000 - 6,000 miles. I think that if i pull the manifold after the second cleaning and the valves are gunked to shit then this stuff is a waste.

Will update probably late july when I get to the next oil change interval.

Do your oil change now.

Or at least send off an UOA when you do change it to see if any of this shit is left in the oil. I did a UOA after SF'ing every 1K miles up to 3K and nothing was off other than viscosity ("but this could be from fuel in the oil as well" is what I was told by Blackstone).

@Turbo_Steve how'd that oil change go?
I've got a test can of the GDI IVD stuff in my basement and a few NATOR folks interested in using it.

Ya, so I sort of invalidated this test. Added wmi so the results may or may not be accurate. Have a new dd so I am putting the car away for the winter. I am going to pull the motor in spring for a build. I won't have pics till then. I think the spray is promising because I used some to clean my exhaust tip and it got the baked on oil off fast.

No worries on the pics.
I'll try to convince whoever is doing the GDI spray to do before/after valves pics.

Also, word was that there might already be valve pics with this cleaner, but for the life of me I can't find them. If anyone knows where they might be, please point me in the right direction.

@redneck4Christ; maybe buy a bottle of this when you do your valves. we can compare side by side with direct application to the valves.

Too much to read at this time of night, but sounds like a good idea. I'll get a bottle to have on hand for January. Compare it to Mazda's zoom zoom cleaner? Thx Joe.

I've got nearly 140k on the car and have never cleaned the valves. No way I'd run this thru my running engine before a proper cleaning.
But direct application after pulling the manifold, sure. I'll get this and B-12. I have Mazda's ZoomZoom. What should we use for the 4th cylinder? @

i'll have to look at my valve cleaning thread, but i think b12 was best for me out of b12, pure methanol, and denatured alcohol. i didn't have zoomzoom cleaner. i wouldn't buy anything else, unless you're just wanting to play around and experiment.

I saw this stuff a few months ago but i was skeptical. instead i soaked mine in B-12 and blasted them spotless with walnut shell. first timer @75,000 miles my valves were fucked

I work at Lexus and we are replacing pistons on is250s' (google the lsb) due to carbon buildup on the valves fucking shit up. Which doesn't work btw but still.

Some spray in a can wont do shit. Media blast the valves is the only way to really clean them.

My other concern about this spray is if you happen to blast off a nice big chunk do you really want that falling into your engine?

I don't see anyone saying this is a pancea for DI valve cleaning. Maybe it's a more focused alternative to seafoam or other regularly used intake based cleaners.

Please read the thread.

For sure. I think this product is something to do every oil change or maybe every other oil change from the time a DI engine is new, or after a full on valve cleaning. If it helps prevent the valves from getting super gunked up over time by using it every 3k miles then it could be a worthwhile product. This is still new to the market and time will tell if it is a good product.

I think a good way to tell would be for someone with their IM off to blast anyways - spray this directly on all closed valves, then blow it out with compressed air and take before and after pictures. nobody is gonna pull their IM before doing a lazy spray, we will just all "SUBBED FOR RESULTS OP".
maybe even more scientificy, compressed air it out, wait 20 min, do the next cyl, wait 20, do the next cyl, etc. then maybe do another cylinder with something like b12 or zoom zoom at the same time for comparison

Compressed air might be a reasonable comparison between chemicals. I was thinking 'scrub 5 minutes with a cheap toothbrush'. Compressed air might do better to clean the valves, but more of a mess for the rest of the engine bay.

compressed air would much better replicate the conditions in real product use (and not 200psi 1/16in of an inch from the valve, a much lighter hit). Physical abrasion is cheating and won't really show what the valves will ACTUALLY do from this stuff.

I'd have to say if you are thinking about doing this, you probably should. FWIW though, I wouldn't inject it before the turbo... I would think by the time it made it all the way down to the intercooler, it would just condense and do nothing. With that being said, it should be just fine for the throttle body.

When I use to work at BMW as a technician, we used to do the exact same thing to most of the cars. After 20-25k miles, you would notice a PHYSICAL running difference at idle, and the car would shake, especially with the A/C on. This happened on all of them, but was definitely more prevalent on the V8's (E60, E65, E53 with the N62)

The way we performed it was slightly different. The chemical we used was MOC, and it was, like this stuff, designed specifically for cleaning valves. The nice thing was that we had a pressurized tank with a fuel injector, and used shop pressure on a regulator to atomize the fluid into the air flow right into the intake. Run the car at 2500 RPM with an exhaust hose on it, and it would take 15-20 minutes to get through the bottle of fluid.

After that, put the intake back together and go for a test drive. Initially, as I saw stated by a couple people in here, the car runs like SHIT! After you blow it out, it starts running amazing, and you can feel the difference within the first few minutes of driving the car.

We would put the injector in between 2 of the intake boots somewhere after the MAF, but before the throttle plate. In our situation, I wouldn't do it anywhere in the hot side. With how an intercooler is designed internally, I'd be too concerned about the fluid condensing on the tubes and finding itself flowing into the bottom of the end tanks on the intercooler. Personally I would try to do it before the throttle plate, but unfortunately, unless you have a meth injection set up, it would be kind of hard to perform it like that. Since it is in aerosol form, I do think @Turbo_Steve 's solution would work pretty well.

As I said, I don't have any pictures to prove it, and I know there will be skeptics, but with first hand experience with it in the BMW world, I wouldn't hesitate to try it on my car, and I just may do so here in the next few weeks.

tl;dr: Used to work at BMW as a technician, and we performed induction flush services all the time with a similar fluid and it made a world of difference.

Fuck B12, Mazda unicorn sauce, or any other bullshit chemical.

Walnut blast, is the most effective method, with the least amount of ass pain. Period.

And it is what all the big boys do. Porsche, Audi, BMW ect.

Example:

REVIEW: Cleaning of intake valves with BMW walnut shell blasting tool

Will this fix my cracked ringland?

Lol

I don't know how much I believe about these cleaners, but there's something that needs to be considered: it's a whole lot different when you run shit through an engine at operating temps than it is to soak them when everything is pulled apart. Heat and pressure play a role. I know it's not the same thing, but when my head gasket shit the bed, that number 4 piston was fucking spotless. And that's just water/coolant, and not a whole lot of it.

Walnut blaster. All DI motors have this issue.

IMO, if you're gonna clean like this. It's pointless. I did a spray through on a throttlebody at work and it just condenses in the bottom of the intake mani. BG cleaner is pretty potent too. Even keeping the car at 2K RPM while spraying.

Instead, I sell a manual throttle clean and I manually clean valves like everyone else does here. Costs more for the customer, but its by far the most effective.

Don't have the blasting equipment, but Mazda zoom engine carbon remover and a rifle cleaner did it up right and was not a lot of work. Would I frown on walnut blasting? Nope. Seems easier. Maybe next go aground.

Yup, the Mini guys swore by walnut blasting...I was just too lazy/cheap to do this when I had the cooperS.

+1 Walnut hands down is the best. i will say that the b12 does help loosen shit up though. I spent nearly twice as long blasting the valves that didnt soak overnight.

I do agree with you that its definitely the most effective solution, period. I would have to disagree that its the least amount of ass pain though. When we did these at BMW it was literally 30 seconds to disconnect an intake tube, 10-20 minutes of spraying this stuff in the intake (depending on air pressure applied) and a road test, and it worked unless the shit was really bad.

Mind you, we did these before BMW came out with their walnut shell blaster solution.

Do diesel engines suffer from this same problem, espcially since they are running EGR systems now?

Can't speak as to the diesel engines with egr but I've been working on a 7.3 powerstroke that has a sensor and tube that goes to the exhaust manifold to sense exhaust back pressure and that tube was completely sealed shut with crud. My guess is they probably have the same issue hence the popularity of the egr delete on the newer diesels.

Short answer: diesels are just different. Some even have aftercooled EGR.

Not THAT different to GDI. It boils down to they're both sucking in straight air through the intake valves. Well and exhaust gas I suppose..

This method absolutely works through the TB, primarily because we're removing buildup at operating temps. It's the same approach Mazda has been using the last 5-7 years with their entire lineup after piloting on the RX-8. My understanding is they will soak the cylinders overnight, spray the TB for several min at operating temps, then swap out the oil and plugs. They may also spray the intake including MAF if the PCV system has enabled excessive blowby. So if using aftermarket variants, it should be safe providing the chemical content doesn't exceed that of the Zoom cleaner.

It's obviously not as effective as IM removal; but not a horrible compromise in time vs. money.


EDIT: I'm sure most here already know but this is fairly close to Mazda's procedure:
https://youtu.be/zfNTZp6OrQ0?t=145

I'm currently working on a adapter that goes on the pressure side of the HPFP. We have a injector cleaner at work that you can run right through the injectors. Instead of hooking up to a intake vac source.. Run a pressure can at 60psi into the HPFP and run the car. Take the fuel pressure line at the HPFP and run a line back into the tank.

This would probably clean the passages in the HPFP as well.

I used to do this method on the GM 3.6L DI motor, except the fuel line going into the pump had a schrader valve right on the line. Its different on our cars.

Thread jack. Not thru the throttle body, but still related. FWIW.
I cleaned my valves a month ago with the typical manifold removal method. I tried 4 chemicals side by side on 4 valves for comparison. Soaked for about an hour. Scrubbed with a toothbrush. Then cleared the chemicals from the ports and let them dry while I worked on walnut blasting the other 4 valves. I tried to choose 4 valves that had about the same amount of filth on them for a 'fair' comparison. One of the chemicals was CRC based on this thread.
From my experience, B12 is Way better than the other 3 for the scrubbing method. It cleaned better. It left less residue. And when I came back later, the residue was not sticky like the other 3 were.
My .02
Picz...
http://i61.tinypic.com/1z64egh.jpg
Chemicals
http://i59.tinypic.com/29o0mye.jpg
brushing
http://i62.tinypic.com/f50zfs.jpg
post scrubbing
http://i58.tinypic.com/a13hgl.jpg
residual scraped out after chemicals and scrub brushing

Thanks for doing a side by side comparison! I still plan on doing a A B test with CRC stuff sprayed into the engine after 10k miles, once I have a little more time.

Just here to say +1 for the IM removal/B-12/walnut blasting method. 100% guaranteed to work, can easily do it in a day, and the car performs better.

Not to mention, if you are doing this, might as well get TIG's & an OCC if you haven't already. With what you take off to clean the valves, makes the installation of these very simple.

Plus 1. We did 2 cars side by side this past Saturday. Next event we will probably try 3 cars.

It would have probably been 3 cars but we had one guy stocking out.

Hoping to get mine done next time. Got to save up for an OCC to have ready to install. Also will probably do EGR delete too and the Tigs

@TheFlash or @thepatient77 have you noticed a difference with your tigs?

So I got a chance to do the A, B test of the CRC GDI cleaner today in combination with an oil change.

A: Take manifold off, take before photos of valves (potatoes 1 & 2)

Install manifold, spray CRC GDI cleaner according to instructions

B: Take manifold off again, take after photos of valves (potatoes 3 & 4)

Unfortunately, photos came out terrible.

However, I will say that the simple spray on cleaners actually did take a substantial amount of the goop off- but not nearly close to what a proper walnut blast would do.

The mechanism seems to be heat and some kind of strong detergent. After application the intake manifold and associated parts of the engine bay were quite hot. It took over an hour to even partially cool and for me to stop burning my hands in the "after" tear down. I didn't happen to have any of my long Q-tips to swab the valves, but all the nasty stubborn oily deposits in the manifold and throttle body simply wiped away.

Mechanism for delivery: inserting the straw into the boost tube post intercooler, pre throttle body.

Car: stock as stock gets MS3 engine, including EGR no CC.


The verdict: if it's cheap and available, sure, throw a can the car for a regular maintenance. HOWEVER, not a replacement for a yearly walnut cleaning. Or an additional helper to cut down on soaking for walnut blasting.

Thank you for doing this. Removing the IM twice is quite a bit of work!

(double check your pictures. Pics 2, 3, and4 all look the same.)

CRC told me that it will not damage the turbo, but I'm still hesitant to try it. That debris still has to go somewhere...