CP-E motor mount review and analysis.

[Sacrilicious]

ok, so i just came back from my first test drive with this mount, and i'm going to give you guys some feedback as to what i thought of this mount as compared to the CS inserts, SU mount, and stock mount.

here's a few pics to start things off:

the mount with exposed blue rubber:



the mount with the aluminum cap that covers the top and bottom of the holes in the rubber...please note that the one that goes on the bottom is flipped over to show what the aluminum cap looks like on the other side:



here's my critiques for the stock mount, CS inserts, and SU mount to build a comparison:

stock mount - lowest vibe available...smooth as hell, but wheel hop possible when you romp on the gas in 1st and sometimes even 2nd gear.

CS inserts - no added vibes...noticeable increase in shift quality and mount stiffness. did not see wheel hop. lasted roughly 2 months before i was wondering if i was back to stock or what...

SU mount - added vibes at idle and a little added roughness when partially engaged in 1st gear and when riding around in first gear. slightly stiffer than the CS inserts...no wheel hop. lasted longer than the CS inserts...was still running them without issues as i got the CP-E mount.

...and now we get to the CP-E mount:

i honestly have nothing bad to say about this mount. the idle feels completely stock. there are no added vibrations. partially engaged 1st gear and riding around in it afterwards feels smooth as butter. mount stiffness is at least as high as the SU mount. i beat the hell out of it on several pulls all the way from stop through 3rd gear. there is no wheel hop, and shifting is smooth as butter.

before this mount, i didn't even notice how much roughness the SU mount had introduced for 1st gear engagement and engaged driving until after i put the CP-E mount in. it's literally a wake-up call...everything became quite noticeably smoother. it was the feeling you get when you've gotten used to a mild ambient white noise in the background and then someone turns it off! i know it sounds stupid, but don't doubt until you have actually tried this mount out. despite the fact that it is, by far, the most expensive mount out there, it is also the best quality DD mount out there: no added vibe and plenty of added stiffness. it's obviously not as good as the delrin TRZ race mount, but that's not what it's in competition with. as far as my experience goes, it completely blows away all mounts aimed at DD upgrades.

ok, now comes the analysis part: why the hell does this 50 durometer mount maintain stock mount comfort and still give so much added stiffness??? sounds too good to be true, doesn't it? well, here's my personal take on the explanation for this:

all things equal, higher durometer = more stiffness + better shifting, which means degraded ride quality. but wait, all things are NOT equal...the rest of the market uses polyurethane bushings. why does this matter? well, here's the deal: durometer is the measure of hardness/resistance to permanent indentation. this is interesting and all, but when an engine is yanked back and forth during hard acceleration, hardness is not necessarily the thing that holds it in place. it's stiffness that matters. stiffness is the resistance of an elastic body to deformation by an applied force, and this is the force that keeps our engines from shifting around as much during hard acceleration. this is also related to elasticity, which is a material's ability to deform under stress but still return to its original shape when the stress is removed. these three properties (durometer/hardness, stiffness, and elasticity) are all related to each other, and given a constant material, raising durometer will likely raise stiffness as well, but all bets are off when you change materials altogether.

this brings us to the point: polyurethane of 50 durometer does NOT have the same stiffness/elasticity as rubber of 50 durometer. rubber is more elastic and has higher stiffness (in the general case...i dunno if there's weird corner cases for this) than polyurethane. this is why the CP-E mount can give us a smoother ride (high elasticity eats up the vibrations in the mount bushing) and still give us good shifting quality (high stiffness of rubber) when compared to the other polyurethane aftermarket mounts. ya, this about convinces me of the superiority of rubber as an engine mount bushing material. basically, the major contribution that CP-E made here was that they built a solidly-constructed stock mount without cut-outs like the OEM mount had... simple, elegant, and effective!

please make note: all these thoughts are my own subjective thoughts and analysis. you are more than welcome to point out my mistakes and misunderstandings, but make sure to remember that i am not posting any of this as an attempt to state anything as gospel!

[SgtP]

sounds great!

[phailerider]

I installed this thing the day we did the mani install up at cpe and I was VERY pleased with the effect. The TRZ poly was ever so slightly better shifting under WOT.... but if I hadnt been super keen on it I wouldnt have known. And as far as noise, vibration, etc..... it was night and day.

My car was getting to the point with everything that it felt like a nuisance to drive if I wasnt in my enthusiast mode..... putting the cpe mount in made that all go away.

CPE has the capability of making stiffer durometer mounts with this design as well. I think it is totally the mount solution unless youre on slicks on track days or something.

[Sacrilicious]

ok, i just did my 1-hr morning commute in crappy-ass traffic (AC on) with this new mount, and i can say without doubt that if it doesn't feel like stock, it's definitely way too close to tell. i am thoroughly happy with the way this mount idles (AC on or off), engages into 1st gear, rides in 1st gear, and (of course) helps stiffen shifting. the thing that was always a telltale sign of the SU mount's vibe for me was the fact that my garmin nuvi would vibrate visibly (not much, but enough to tell for sure) in its dash mount when idling. that annoyance is now a thing of the past. i do not get visible vibe under any conditions (outside of hitting potholes, obviously...).

unless this mount degrades quickly over time (jury is still out on this, obviously...i'll keep you all posted), it appears to be THE mount to get if you have DD comfort + decent stiffness upgrade in mind. so, unless you have a burning desire for race shifting craziness, i would recommend this mount over any other mount out there without hesitation. it may be the most expensive one, but you definitely get what you pay for. this mount, along with the cobb SRI, are the two mods that i feel the car should have come stock with...they are just THAT important!

[Sacrilicious]

Originally Posted by palerider My car was getting to the point with everything that it felt like a nuisance to drive if I wasnt in my enthusiast mode..... putting the cpe mount in made that all go away.

i've done next to nothing to my car, and i definitely agree that its nuances can be an annoyance when i'm not in my balls-to-the-wall enthusiast mode. this mount cleans up so much of what annoyed me before(mostly any vibe/roughness i felt at idle or in 1st gear).

i mean, when you're at a stoplight with have a girl in the car with you, it's somewhat embarrassing when you're car's rumbling away like it's brooding after an argument! the honest truth is that most of the ladies get turned on by fast cars (if even that) that are smooth and civilized. we may get a kick out of the "aggressive feel" of the added roughness when we're in racing mode, but they just don't get nearly the kick we do out of it! =/ with that in mind, this is probably the best $150 (after shipping) i've spent on the car since the cobb SRI...

[Jesse MS3GT]

Looks like a good mount

[subparpunk03]

Lets just say I'm gonna hang on to my delrin mount... but I think I'm convinced that I'd give this mount a try for DD.

[Crossbow]

Make sure when installing the CP-E mount, that you have a breaker bar, or some sort of leverage for the bottom bracket bolts...I swear some of them are on there with 300 ft/lbs of torque...(even though they are only supposed to be 70 ft/lbs).

[Laloosh]

im thinking of picking this up for daily driving and just swap to my trz race mount for track days. However last week i wheelhopped like a bunny with the trz race mount so starting to think side mounts need to replaced or control arm bushings need to replaced. I would love to see how this mount works with something like the SU side mounts....if the vibes are minimal im all game

[Sacrilicious]

Originally Posted by Crossbow Make sure when installing the CP-E mount, that you have a breaker bar, or some sort of leverage for the bottom bracket bolts...I swear some of them are on there with 300 ft/lbs of torque...(even though they are only supposed to be 70 ft/lbs).

haha...for sure! i have some nice road rash on my arm from when my arm slipped as one of those bottom bolts broke loose. i am guessing that they're extra tight because of the huge strain put on them from the engine torquing around and around.

[Sacrilicious]

Originally Posted by Laloosh im thinking of picking this up for daily driving and just swap to my trz race mount for track days. However last week i wheelhopped like a bunny with the trz race mount so starting to think side mounts need to replaced or control arm bushings need to replaced. I would love to see how this mount works with something like the SU side mounts....if the vibes are minimal im all game

your car just started wheel hopping out of the blue?

[Laloosh]

yea....last time i went to the track in november it didnt wheel hop. Last week i thought the engine was going to get the 60 feet before the bumper. I either have torn side mounts or the bushing are just flat out worn out. Btw it never hops on the street. Then again i went to the shitiest most unven track in the the state...so that could have something to do with it

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by Laloosh yea....last time i went to the track in november it didnt wheel hop. Last week i thought the engine was going to get the 60 feet before the bumper. I either have torn side mounts or the bushing are just flat out worn out. Btw it never hops on the street. Then again i went to the shitiest most unven track in the the state...so that could have something to do with it

Or it could of been, you are the only person there that consistently tries to drag race on radial tires!

[Sacrilicious]

Originally Posted by Laloosh yea....last time i went to the track in november it didnt wheel hop. Last week i thought the engine was going to get the 60 feet before the bumper. I either have torn side mounts or the bushing are just flat out worn out. Btw it never hops on the street. Then again i went to the shitiest most unven track in the the state...so that could have something to do with it

haha...ya, i don't wheel hop on even roads, but if i try to rip it from a dig on a slightly bumpy stretch of road, the wheel hop rears its ugly head! =/

[dallasms3gt]

Thanks for the wrie up Sacri... I just ordered these, and few other goodies... I am really liking the CPE products. I am looking at the CPE CAI, and hoping we get an offer for a Group Buy soon...!

While we are on the subject. Does anyone know if CPE is planning on releasing a side, or front mount as well?

[AG.]

hmmmmmmmm might have to sell my inserts for these....i still havent installed them...but shit 150? lol....how long are they supposed to last...i guess its a better investment since the insterts are what 2-3 months?

[Sacrilicious]

here's an update for you guys:

1. the mount has broken in a little bit. it feels a little softer now, but still does not allow any wheel hop.

2. there is still no added vibe for idle (AC on or off) and riding/engaging in 1st gear.

what does this all mean to me? well, shifting is not quite as effortless as it was before, but it's still good. the most important thing is that there is no hint of wheel hop, and that's well worth the trouble.

[Haltech]

i still got slight wheel hop, but from what i gathered, no one is interested in hearing about it.

[Laloosh]

like i said i still have wheel hop with a mount that is rock solid, so i dont see how poeple dont have it with this mount. Wait till your fast track day, bring a cc incase ure engine drops or a break an axle lol. Some has to come out with side mounts and CA bushings

[Sacrilicious]

well, all i really have as far as power mods go is a cobb SRI, so that's probably why i've not run into wheel hop problems since the mount.

[Haltech]

If you add a Racepipe and Catback, you will get the hop... you just need a little more power to see it is all.

[Sacrilicious]

Originally Posted by Haltech If you add a Racepipe and Catback, you will get the hop... you just need a little more power to see it is all.

i'll make sure to hold off on that until CP-E comes out with a race version of this mount then... i'm somewhat over my initial giddiness from getting this car, so all i want to do is preserve the power i have while keeping it as civil as possible.

[IKILLPEOPLE]

i have CAI\TBE\18psi and i do not get wheel hop unless i'm on some bumps or something. even in the rain i wouldn't get it. as long as it is a relatively smooth road, i'll just peel out

loosh: this crappy drag strip, were you talking about atco? i went there very recently, and the track sucked balls. e-town is much better track, but SO expensive for only a couple runs. when i went to atco, i did 6 runs for 15 bucks, and i hid my girl in my trunk so she got in for free. that place is run by hillbillies for sure lol

[IKILLPEOPLE]

Originally Posted by dallasms3gt While we are on the subject. Does anyone know if CPE is planning on releasing a side, or front mount as well?

i believe cp-e has paleriders car in for a rebuild correct? if so, that is prime time to design some engine mounts... i have been telling them for a while to do them, but they are on the edge... they are not 100% confident that there is enough demand to do them. if people send them a bunch of PM's and e-mails telling them to do them, i'm sure they will get on it. AFAIK tho it is not top priority ATM, but who knows..

[dadasracecar]

Originally Posted by IKILLPEOPLE i have CAITBE18psi and i do not get wheel hop unless i'm on some bumps or something. even in the rain i wouldn't get it. as long as it is a relatively smooth road, i'll just peel out loosh: this crappy drag strip, were you talking about atco? i went there very recently, and the track sucked balls. e-town is much better track, but SO expensive for only a couple runs. when i went to atco, i did 6 runs for 15 bucks, and i hid my girl in my trunk so she got in for free. that place is run by hillbillies for sure lol

LMAO. Hello Pot, this is Kettle....

[Crossbow]

ll make sure to hold off on that until CP-E comes out with a race version of this mount then...

Make sure to email them to show your interest. They can easily swap in a stiffer durometer rubber...their target audience was for those who wanted the benefits of something like the dogbone (standard not D version) without the vibes. Heck if you wanted to tear your head apart, they could probably just machine a solid billet version for those who want to be hardcore.\

i still got slight wheel hop, but from what i gathered, no one is interested in hearing about it.

Ha, definitely. I don't doubt that people will still be able to get wheel hop with just replacing one mount. I think the goal was to address the stock engine flopping issues, with minor bolt ons. (CAI and 2nd cat delete) If you start pilling on power, you'll have to address multiple mounts, and possibly the suspension as well to fully eliminate wheel hop. If it was as easy as just swapping one mount, there wouldn't be thousands of internet threads fighting over the best ways to eliminate it!

[Laloosh]

Originally Posted by Haltech i still got slight wheel hop, but from what i gathered, no one is interested in hearing about it.

why would no1 be interested in hearing about it?

[magoo]

After I changed to the Cobb suspension I have zero wheel hop. I have plenty of goodies on my car, so the power is there.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by Laloosh why would no1 be interested in hearing about it?

Just something i was told... Talk to Randy, he will fill you in.

[bani]

Originally Posted by Sacrilicious CS inserts - no added vibes...

no added vibes? are you serious? with CS inserts, reversing at low rpms my car vibrates like a mofo... the change in the ashtray rattles...

[Sacrilicious]

Originally Posted by bani no added vibes? are you serious? with CS inserts, reversing at low rpms my car vibrates like a mofo... the change in the ashtray rattles...

it sounds like there's something weird with your setup then. it doesn't sound likely that simply filling in some holes in your stock rubber mount is going to kill you...the mount is still mostly rubber.

[magoo]

Fitted mount. Can verify - zero vibrations. Just like stock

[NYpest]

Originally Posted by magoo Fitted mount. Can verify - zero vibrations. Just like stock

Any hop ?

[bani]

Originally Posted by Sacrilicious it sounds like there's something weird with your setup then.

users of the CS inserts on other forums have confirmed uber vibration at low rpm especially reverse. not just my setup.

[4thStroke]

you are the only person there that consistently tries to drag race on radial tires!

I have made many passes, and never once was I on anything sticky. I think the quickest 60' I have ever achieved was 2.1, which was with the Mazda.

For some reason, the MS3 has been extremely easy for me to drive... not that 2.1 is very quick.

I too can vouch for vibration at low RPM with the CS inserts.

[Sacrilicious]

perhaps my memory is foggy then, because i do not remember vibration at low RPMs with the CS inserts.

[MadOzodi]

If you currently had the AWR 70 duro mount, Cobb SRI and AP Stage 1+, had wheelhop trying to clean off the tires after the water box and through 1st gear with a shitty ass 2.4+ 60', but still wanted a good DD, would you get the CP-E mount or one of the other ones?

[Sacrilicious]

i've never had the AWR mount, so i really cannot comment...anyone else have experience with the AWR?

[bioevolve]

That pic in the first post, was that a prototype? Cuz the CNC milling that was done on it was way to fast, you can obviouly see the bit lines clearly. Or was it done on purpose for design?

[MadOzodi]

I gotta change my oil and plugs soon anyway so I'm gonna check to see if the AWR is torn at all. Ken (PG) told me a while back that if I ever had any probs with my AWR, that he'd replace it for free with a TRZ Poly.