CPE Stage 2 RMM No difference
 

I installed the CPE stage 2 about a month ago and now it has about 4000 miles on it. I noticed no difference in vibration (except slightly more with the AC on) or shifting after installing. Is this normal? I've searched and read that it's possibly the best aftermarket RMM if you still want comfort but many people noticed drastic differences. There is still the *slap* noise if I shift hard and fast (which I try to avoid because of the noise). I've also read the TMM is the one to get to improve shifter feel but this mount was what I did first because I'm not racing quite yet. Thanks.

Feeling more vibes with the AC on is normal. The RPM lowers just enough with the load of the compressor to cause it.

However, you shouldn't be feeling/hearing any movement after you installed the mount. I don't know about a slap noise, but a bang is what most people typically feel/hear, and it should be gone with just the RMM by itself.

Yea the AC vibration I expected.

It is that bang/clunk noise. It basically drives like the old motor mount. I'll get underneath and see if anything is loose, I just wanted to see if anyone else has experienced this.

Yeah you shouldn't be feeling that at all. This motor mount can handle abuse.

Apologies but I'm not as active hear anymore as before. But I'm glad I stumbled across this.

I have the CP-E RMM 60duro since the beginning of time, and I too hear/feel the "bang", especially going from 2nd and 3rd.

Since you said I shouldn't be feeling that at all, does that mean my RMM has ran its course and needs to be replaced?

Has anyone modified the idle RPM with A/C on ? I feel like a tuner could bump idle speed up 100 RPM to compensate for the drop when the compressor is engaged.

Isn't that the original version where the bushing is in the part that goes into the subframe? Like this:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...4dUruHC3SSWB-I

If so, then yes. That style is notorious for failing.

I have a raised idle, but it was more to put pressure on the turbo seals because of the catless downpipe rather than it was to fix vibes caused by the motor mount. Yes, my shit vibrates a ton with the a/c on. I got over it, but I also hardly ever run the AC.

I'm looking at a Stage 2 CPE RMM right now for sale on a facebook MS3 for sale page. Can you elaborate on the differences so I know what the good mount should look like?

That picture I posed was their stage 1 mount. That bushing sits flat face down inside the subframe, and when you punch it, all of the stress is placed on the face of that bushing, which is what causes them to fail. That's the same reason the stock one is garbage. If you grab your stock mount, you can probably push the center of your bushing out by hand.

A stage 2 looks like:

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...310_122112.jpg

The stock bushing location is now a solid chunk of metal, and your bushing is not turned vertically. Meaning, when the stress is put on the bushing it pushes the bushing into its frame, so it can no longer tear and push itself out of the frame of the mount.

If that makes any sense.... Its the difference of pulling and pushing the bushing up and down, versus pushing on the face of the bushing itself.

Yeah. That's the one I've got. I will look into replacing it, it's got close to 80,000 miles on it anyways. Thanks!

Would you say this is (still) more pressing then say, a passenger side motor mount?

Yes. RMM improves shifting and everything more than PMM.

I previously had DM RMM, DM PMM, CS insert in TMM. The cabin noise was way too much for me with the PMM, so I switched that back first. The RMM had driven me nuts from day one due to a pretty subtle noise it would transmit - probably it would have been fine for most others. So I currently have CPE stage 2 RMM, CPE 60duro PMM, CS insert in TMM - and I find it an excellent balance for stock-block power levels between solid shifting and other benefits while still keeping NVH reasonable.

The main reason I did PMM was as a prophylactic measure against it squirting its gooey goodness in my engine compartment. It did have shifting benefits when combined with the CS TMM insert but only about 15% as much improvement as the RMM so it's definitely not as important.

"gooey goodness"... Do you mean yellowish/brownish look stains near the passenger strut tower/coolant reserve tank, and it makes it look like the coolant reserve tank exploded?

Because if so, I may have the same issue as you. :(

Damn it, old car is old.

Okay, OP here. I'm thinking it did just vibrate lose a little bit. Overall I really like the mount and shifting anything besides 1-2 is super smooth and nice. Maybe I'll get the full CPE kit when I go full race car. For now, it needs to get me to work and back without vibrating to pieces.

I don't have the problem. "Prophylactically" means used to prevent something. If your PMM has exploded, then you need to replace that before your RMM. The cheapest option is a used market OEM PMM, next is a solid rubber aftermarket mount, performance options are well documented.

How can I tell if my PMM has exploded?

To make things a bit complicated, I also think my coolant reserve tank has a leak. Because it's never full. I have refilled it and the coolant level doesn't stay at the max level.

Doesn't help that the PMM and the coolant reserve tank are in the same location. Thanks for your help on this!

Frankly, what you described is pretty much what I see everyone who has the problem describe. I'd guess that yours does have the problem. Secondly, inspect the rubber of the mount very carefully. You will probably find it is torn/cracked somewhere where the oil came out. And shove the engine around with your hand, if it's broken it should move around in that mount very easily I'd think. Other than that, use Google to search the forum for some images (which is what I'd do at this point).

Also consider that you may have a radiator leak also or, worst case, a broken head gasket and your coolant is leaking into the oil. Lets hope that's not the case.

Further questions, and thanks for answering!

1) The rubber of the PMM can be inspected without taking the thing apart, right?

2) PMM restricts lateral engine movements, right?

Also, a quick google search gave me this image for failed Mazdaspeed 3 PMM:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nApdfysK5N4/maxresdefault.jpg

I have to say, that yellow/brownish stain is very similar to the stain near my passenger side strut tower, just that my pattern is a little different. But the color is pretty much spot on.

Damn it... Upgrading parts out of necessity doesn't feel as joyful as upgrading parts for the hell of it.

That PMM looks like a Walmart public toilette in the morning.

Oh no, someone took a shit in your engine bay! Lol

That was a picture from Google. But, my passenger side strut looks more or less like that.

Just that it's less concentrated of a pattern, more of a shotgun blast pattern.

Yeah I know it was from the interwebz. But if you have that brown gunk anywhere near your PMM it is busted and needs replacing.

I haven't seen a picture that's quite that bad previously but it's probably the same thing yeah.

Yes, you can inspect the PMM rubber without taking it off the car. It will be easier to check more parts of it with it off, or if you had a borescope ... even a dental mirror might help. But at this point it seems obvious yours is broken. Order another PMM and inspect the stocker after removal.

The PMM restricts the engine/trans up/down, and fore-aft, basically. The TMM does all those plus side-side. The PMM and TMM in concert also restrict rotation about the X and Z axes. The RMM restricts engine/trans rotation about the Y axis. Honestly I'm not entirely sure about the side-side (cross-car) but based on what I remember and how I'd design the system it makes sense to me.

Your passenger mount is blown. You definitely need to replace that. And actually, your PMM is way more important than your rear mount. The passenger and trans mount are what support the significant bulk of the weight of the motor. If it actually fails and drops the motor, you're in for a really bad time.

Don't be a cheap ass, replace them both. It probably broke because your rear mount is completely shot.

Fully agree with this sentiment. Replace them both.

RMM - CS "stage 2", Damond, or CP-e stage 2. No others. (OK, CS inserts and E-Focus RMM semi acceptable, kinda)

PMM - Damond, CPE 60duro, CPE 75duro. No others.

Personally I'd also say put the CS insert in your TMM while you're at it and be done with it.

+1 for CP-e stage 2 Rmm and damond PMM. Best daily driver combo out there unless you want the vibes.

I want to thank you all for your insights. I can tell you that for the past several months, I have been experiencing what I thought was excessive engine movements and of course, the "BANG!" in every other 2nd - 3rd shifts.

The brown/yellowish splattered gunk...

https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...b8&oe=5A38BCAB

Then a slightly deeper dive...

https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...24&oe=59EE3635

So I have a few more questions:

Obviously, I will have to replace my PMM, and when I said replace I mean upgrade. And also, it would make sense that my RMM is either the root of the issue, or linked to this failure:

1) Since two of the three motor mounts will be of a stiffer variety, will all of the force be transferred to the remaining stock TMM? Will that accelerate the wear on the TMM?

I am hesitant because I have read that the TMM is one that will transmit the most noise and vibration into the cabin. My 60duro CP-E 1st gen RMM provided me with a very comfortable cabin once it was broken in. I'd only feel it if the AC is on. I am hoping that the 2nd Stage CP-E RMM and the Damond PMM would yield me a similar result, and not accelerate the wear on my TMM.

Thank you all for helping me out.

From my experience, the PMM brings on the most vibes. The TMM brings mainly clutch chatter, but not much in terms of vibes. I doubt the other mounts being upgraded would have any negative impact on the TMM. If anything, they may keep it from tearing.

Thanks.

I guess I need to spend some money now :(

And I thought I left that mod life years ago.

It's commonly stated that upgrading some mounts but not others will increase the strain on the unmodified ones. That seems sensible but on the other hand I've never heard of a failed TMM. I haven't seeked it out either. But the CS insert I recommended is not very expensive ($40+shipping), not very difficult to install, and I'd think would eliminate the concern. It doesn't add noticeable NVH.

I can't speak for the cp-e 75 duro PMM but I will warn you that you will get more NVH from the Damond PMM than from the cp-e 60 duro PMM. just as you'd get a touch more NVH (but there wouldn't be quite so much difference) from the Damond RMM than from the CPE stage 2 RMM. Knowing that, take your choice.

Usually cp-e warrants their RMMs for life, so you could presumably send it in for repair after receiving your new one, then sell it to help defray the cost of the new stuff. You won't find too many willing buyers on the boards but I bet you could get someone on FB to pick it up.

I've never heard of a failed TMM either. Maybe I'll look into the inserts. Honestly, just browsing these forums, I don't think I've seen anyone listing an aftermarket TMM in their list of mods/signage.

When I first installed the 60 duro CP-E RMM, the first 1000miles or so I kind of thought it was cool because the new noises and the rigidity made my car feel like a race car. Then the mount settled in and it felt like a normal everyday daily driver again. Having had that experience, I know what I'm getting myself into as far as NVH is concerned. But thank you for confirming that there'll be an ever so slightly increase in NVH.

I'm looking forward to these new mounts. Until then, I'm going to be easy on the car. I hope I'll get to work on the car this weekend, or the next.

I'm just confused by your choices since you're saying you're doing the DM PMM and cpe RMM. So you're going softer in the spot where going harder will give less noise increase and more performance increase? If anything it would make more sense to go DM RMM and cpe PMM. Or both cpe if you fancy yourself more sensitive. Or both Damond if you think more hardcore or like more mechanical sound.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

You lost me man.

If you're asking me about my choices...

CP-E Stage 2 RMM - Checked out the new design and agreed with it. One of the few mods that has received universal praises around here, even more so than the original CP-E RMM.
Damond PMM - I think the approval rating for this thing is something close to 99%, seems like I can't make a wrong purchase here.

By the way, just ordered the Damond PMM. I'll hold off on the CP-E Stage 2 RMM, that's less pressing at the moment.

Not sure how I could have lost you, though maybe it explains your choices. In any case, it no longer matters.

Damond will no doubt be better than a broken stock PMM. I'm be interested to see what you have to say about it.

I'm looking forward to it.

I still plan on ordering the CP-E Stage 2 RMM. But I'd like to experience each individual upgrade by itself (broken in and everything) first, before just throwing everything onto the car.

(I don't have much on the car, but maybe later on tonight when I come home, I'll update my signage with my mods)

Testing mod list signature

Check on your CPE RMM. I had one and after 5k the bushing was torn

I had my stock TMM tear. When I went to do my clutch the bottom of the bushing literally fell out when we lifted the TMM off of the stud.

Will do

What did you replace it with?

Also, nearly 100,000 miles and I'm finally asking this question. Where is the "driver" side motor mount? Does the TMM double as the "driver" side mount? Thanks!

Since the trans is on the US driver's side (transverse engine, it's gotta be one side or the other) the TMM is the same as driver's side motor mount. I have seen the term driver side motor mount used before but only a time or two.

Umm... How long does it take for Damond Motorsports to ship their stuff? It's been since Monday and I haven't gotten my shipping confirmation/tracking/it-went-out notice.

A JBR mount. I think it's an 80 duro, but I honestly cannot remember. I bought it from a NATOR brother.

Responding to an earlier post in this thread: Yes, raising idle rpm to +200 will do wonders for taming the increased NVH (vibes) that come with stiffer mounts. Also helps to reduce risk of "smoking turbo" if running the stock turbo.

Any insights on whether or not that cut into your MPG's?

I've always wondered by our idle is this low, I've seen it dip down towards ~500rpm imaginary mark.

The tuna set my idle at 850 (due to 3.5" intake) and it did not appear to change my fuel economy, or at least not appreciably. Frankly it didn't really appreciably change the vibes either, but my setup is pretty soft for aftermarket so it wouldn't be real surprising for it to be not noticeable.

You let a fish mess with your idle?

Did you eat it after it finished your idle?

Some tunas are good enough that it might be worth eating their meat, or at least handies and butt touches just to ward off that ole ZZB.


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It seems to be no different. I made the idle increase about eight years ago, though and I have a heavy right foot.

Hey y'all, if you guys are wondering why there hasn't been any update on my experience with the Damond PMM, it's because they're out of stock for (at least) the next two weeks.

So they actually told you "two weeks"?

That's why I said (at least) two weeks. They said 2-3 weeks.

Honestly, I was a bit annoyed because there's nothing on their website that says they're out of stock. Also, they did not tell me they're out of stock until I asked them about my order 3 days after it's been sitting idle.

Not impressed with Damond Motorsports' customer service at all.

Bah. It would only have been funny had they literally said "two weeks".

I mean, it's not hard right? You're out of stock, that's ok.

But you couldn't let your customers know? You had to wait for them to ask just what happened to their money and why the order is sitting the idly?

Absolutely. It should not be difficult to setup the website to display quantities remaining. Just update it everytime a shipment comes in :boggled:

Yes, it's so easy! You guys already know how to do this - you should start your own aftermarket parts company.

Customer relations is a priority for any B2C (and B2B) business. If you haven't figured that part out, then it's not a sound business.

I haven't faulted them for running out of stock. Sometimes you don't get all of the necessary components to assemble a quality part, nothing wrong with that.

But informing potential customers, and displaying an *OUT OF STOCK* disclaimer is not hard at all. I mean, they managed to set up an entire, fully functional website, haven't they?

Oh ok, so sure, you can't display an "OUT OF STOCK" disclaimer. How are customers supposed to know they won't receive a delivery within the appropriate amount of time? Oh I know, let's email these people who placed an order, and inform them of the situation!

No? Let's just keep our mouths shut until they contact us about what happened to their money days/weeks later. Sounds like a good business plan Damond Motorsports.

So far I've noticed all the vendors sites operate this way. A few times I ordered from Corksport (part was on backorder but I didn't know) and went ahead and placed my order. The next day I received a call from them letting me know it would be a few weeks. I canceled at that point. When I ordered their turbo it was the same deal, but I wasn't in a rush so I was cool with the 3-4 week wait. But I always got a call within 24-48 hours letting me part was backordered, so I can understand your frustration. I also said the same thing to CS about adding a quantity counter on their parts for their website.

See, that's fair game if they call you after and let you know what's going on with the order. Because they told you on the website itself, or post-purchase follow-up, you were informed of the status of your order/money.

I had to call them after nearly a week of zero communications from them. It was only then that they told me the PMM is out of stock. However, unlike your previous situation, my PMM has failed, that's why I wanted the part ASAP.

I might play a bit of a devils advocate for a minute here as I just replaced my Stage 2 RMM after 4 years as the bushing had developed a tear. It was nice to have a compliant vibration-free mount, but the engine was moving as much as the OEM mount by the time I replaced it.
I asked CP-e if I could just buy a replacement bushing but they weren't much help so I just bought a whole new (Stage 1) one.

This gives me quite a history of rear engine mounts over the last 7 years.
OEM - Corksport Inserts (IMO, highly underrated) - SURE REM (Replaced after all the failures that happened, mine was fine) - CP-e Stage 2 (Bushing failed) - CP-e Stage 1 55 duro (Installed yesterday)

I have now swapped back to a stage 1 RMM for a couple of reasons. Mainly, after I installed the stage 2 RMM I found my car started popping out of 4th gear under heavy downhill braking at the racetrack. This also coincided with a switch to semi slick tyres so I never genuinely had a chance to prove that this was the cause, but my mechanic made a good point that since the bushing orientation had changed, it may have altered the way the entire engine moves on its mounts. The design may seem to make much more sense on paper, but there are reasons why the manufacturers do things the way they do.

I know it's an unproven theory but it resonated with me. And now that I am back running a S1, we will be able to test this theory properly real soon.

Here is a video of what happens when you pop out of 4th gear and have no power to pick up the weight transfer on corner exit. Just watch the gearstick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtDV7yhr2Qw

Also here are some pics of my Stage 2 RMM that I just pulled off my car. Bought it in 2013, it's done 60 000km and about 25 track days. It's served me well but I am happy to go back to the way the gods (designers) intended. This design is sold on the premise that the bushing will last forever but that's clearly not the case. So if I am gonna be replacing parts, I would rather keep it cheaper.

http://i.imgur.com/wtmdIjAh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MWpHhvIh.jpg

Thanks for the reply, it seems you experienced exactly what I was in that it seemed like there was no difference in engine play. Do you have the other mounts upgraded or just this one? I do like the idea of the S2 and it makes a lot of sense to have it over the OEM one but the full benefit isn't happening for me. I don't track/autox this car yet because it's my only car but I'd like to get out there. I was expecting a lot more from this mount. I've read the inserts have a lot of vibration and I really didn't want that since I have to drive this every day.

It's an engine mount. I don't know what you want from it exactly but it was never going to change the world. All aftermarket ones cause vibrations but they also settle down with time as the mount beds in. I just have the rear one rest are oem.

I'd be willing to put money on it not being the mount. This is probably the same as the classical autocross 2nd gear popout. Probably you need a lighter shift knob and linkage weight.

Yea I'm inclined to agree, that's why I didn't replace it for 4 years. Hopefully my new turbo setup will be done by the end of the month and I'll be able to test it on the 1st of September.

I think that's your problem right there. lol My FMM made for a great addition. It's a shame they don't make them anymore. Only downside is it would fuck your FMIC plans. :/

Well they supposedly warrant it for life but I have never heard of a self-replacement bushing. Usually they tell people to send it back and they replace it. I presume you weren't willing to do it that way?

They did offer to fix it but I live in Australia so didn't want to go without a car for a month while the thing shipped. I just wanted to buy a bushing from them but they said it needs to be pressed out/in, which I am perfectly capable of organising myself but they didn't seem to want to trust me with that.
Once I removed it I unscrewed the flange and the bushing came out by hand very easily so even if it does need a press it probably doesn't need a very powerful one. My money is on a big vice being enough.
In the end it just became too difficult.

Checked in with Damond Motorsports and emailed them about my 2 WEEKS OLD order.

Loving the lack of communications from them.

Fair enough. Didn't realize you were in Australia, yeah that changes the equation some for sure. And yeah from what I've heard it (the bushing switch) is not all that difficult. I'm guessing they're sensitive about it because of the damage they took when the retainers were coming out.... though they still have a TMM that they ask the user to assemble with threadlocker AND they have an anti-backout plate. Seems strange to trust the users on the one hand and not on the other. But oh well, companies' policies often aren't really rational like that anyway.