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 Old 07-01-2017, 10:19 AM   #1
 
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Default CPE Stage 2 RMM No difference

I installed the CPE stage 2 about a month ago and now it has about 4000 miles on it. I noticed no difference in vibration (except slightly more with the AC on) or shifting after installing. Is this normal? I've searched and read that it's possibly the best aftermarket RMM if you still want comfort but many people noticed drastic differences. There is still the *slap* noise if I shift hard and fast (which I try to avoid because of the noise). I've also read the TMM is the one to get to improve shifter feel but this mount was what I did first because I'm not racing quite yet. Thanks.
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 Old 07-03-2017, 12:24 PM   #2
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Feeling more vibes with the AC on is normal. The RPM lowers just enough with the load of the compressor to cause it.

However, you shouldn't be feeling/hearing any movement after you installed the mount. I don't know about a slap noise, but a bang is what most people typically feel/hear, and it should be gone with just the RMM by itself.
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 Old 07-03-2017, 01:54 PM   #3
 
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Yea the AC vibration I expected.

It is that bang/clunk noise. It basically drives like the old motor mount. I'll get underneath and see if anything is loose, I just wanted to see if anyone else has experienced this.
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 Old 07-05-2017, 04:14 AM   #4
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Yeah you shouldn't be feeling that at all. This motor mount can handle abuse.
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 Old 07-21-2017, 09:13 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by CWP_MS3 View Post
Yeah you shouldn't be feeling that at all. This motor mount can handle abuse.
Apologies but I'm not as active hear anymore as before. But I'm glad I stumbled across this.

I have the CP-E RMM 60duro since the beginning of time, and I too hear/feel the "bang", especially going from 2nd and 3rd.

Since you said I shouldn't be feeling that at all, does that mean my RMM has ran its course and needs to be replaced?

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 Old 07-21-2017, 09:43 AM   #6
 
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Originally Posted by CWP_MS3 View Post
Feeling more vibes with the AC on is normal. The RPM lowers just enough with the load of the compressor to cause it.
Has anyone modified the idle RPM with A/C on ? I feel like a tuner could bump idle speed up 100 RPM to compensate for the drop when the compressor is engaged.
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 Old 07-24-2017, 04:35 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo View Post
Apologies but I'm not as active hear anymore as before. But I'm glad I stumbled across this.

I have the CP-E RMM 60duro since the beginning of time, and I too hear/feel the "bang", especially going from 2nd and 3rd.

Since you said I shouldn't be feeling that at all, does that mean my RMM has ran its course and needs to be replaced?
Isn't that the original version where the bushing is in the part that goes into the subframe? Like this:



If so, then yes. That style is notorious for failing.

Originally Posted by Bexar View Post
Has anyone modified the idle RPM with A/C on ? I feel like a tuner could bump idle speed up 100 RPM to compensate for the drop when the compressor is engaged.
I have a raised idle, but it was more to put pressure on the turbo seals because of the catless downpipe rather than it was to fix vibes caused by the motor mount. Yes, my shit vibrates a ton with the a/c on. I got over it, but I also hardly ever run the AC.
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 Old 07-24-2017, 12:04 PM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by CWP_MS3 View Post
Isn't that the original version where the bushing is in the part that goes into the subframe? Like this:



If so, then yes. That style is notorious for failing.
I'm looking at a Stage 2 CPE RMM right now for sale on a facebook MS3 for sale page. Can you elaborate on the differences so I know what the good mount should look like?
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 Old 07-25-2017, 05:36 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Bexar View Post
I'm looking at a Stage 2 CPE RMM right now for sale on a facebook MS3 for sale page. Can you elaborate on the differences so I know what the good mount should look like?

That picture I posed was their stage 1 mount. That bushing sits flat face down inside the subframe, and when you punch it, all of the stress is placed on the face of that bushing, which is what causes them to fail. That's the same reason the stock one is garbage. If you grab your stock mount, you can probably push the center of your bushing out by hand.

A stage 2 looks like:



The stock bushing location is now a solid chunk of metal, and your bushing is not turned vertically. Meaning, when the stress is put on the bushing it pushes the bushing into its frame, so it can no longer tear and push itself out of the frame of the mount.

If that makes any sense.... Its the difference of pulling and pushing the bushing up and down, versus pushing on the face of the bushing itself.
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 Old 07-25-2017, 08:00 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by CWP_MS3 View Post
Isn't that the original version where the bushing is in the part that goes into the subframe? Like this:



If so, then yes. That style is notorious for failing.



I have a raised idle, but it was more to put pressure on the turbo seals because of the catless downpipe rather than it was to fix vibes caused by the motor mount. Yes, my shit vibrates a ton with the a/c on. I got over it, but I also hardly ever run the AC.
Yeah. That's the one I've got. I will look into replacing it, it's got close to 80,000 miles on it anyways. Thanks!

Would you say this is (still) more pressing then say, a passenger side motor mount?
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 Old 07-25-2017, 03:36 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo View Post
Would you say this is (still) more pressing then say, a passenger side motor mount?
Yes. RMM improves shifting and everything more than PMM.

I previously had DM RMM, DM PMM, CS insert in TMM. The cabin noise was way too much for me with the PMM, so I switched that back first. The RMM had driven me nuts from day one due to a pretty subtle noise it would transmit - probably it would have been fine for most others. So I currently have CPE stage 2 RMM, CPE 60duro PMM, CS insert in TMM - and I find it an excellent balance for stock-block power levels between solid shifting and other benefits while still keeping NVH reasonable.

The main reason I did PMM was as a prophylactic measure against it squirting its gooey goodness in my engine compartment. It did have shifting benefits when combined with the CS TMM insert but only about 15% as much improvement as the RMM so it's definitely not as important.
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 Old 07-25-2017, 03:58 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by aackthpt View Post

The main reason I did PMM was as a prophylactic measure against it squirting its gooey goodness in my engine compartment. It did have shifting benefits when combined with the CS TMM insert but only about 15% as much improvement as the RMM so it's definitely not as important.
"gooey goodness"... Do you mean yellowish/brownish look stains near the passenger strut tower/coolant reserve tank, and it makes it look like the coolant reserve tank exploded?

Because if so, I may have the same issue as you.

Damn it, old car is old.
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 Old 07-25-2017, 04:21 PM   #13
 
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Okay, OP here. I'm thinking it did just vibrate lose a little bit. Overall I really like the mount and shifting anything besides 1-2 is super smooth and nice. Maybe I'll get the full CPE kit when I go full race car. For now, it needs to get me to work and back without vibrating to pieces.
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 Old 07-26-2017, 11:43 AM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo View Post
"gooey goodness"... Do you mean yellowish/brownish look stains near the passenger strut tower/coolant reserve tank, and it makes it look like the coolant reserve tank exploded?

Because if so, I may have the same issue as you.

Damn it, old car is old.
I don't have the problem. "Prophylactically" means used to prevent something. If your PMM has exploded, then you need to replace that before your RMM. The cheapest option is a used market OEM PMM, next is a solid rubber aftermarket mount, performance options are well documented.
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 Old 07-26-2017, 12:06 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by aackthpt View Post
I don't have the problem. "Prophylactically" means used to prevent something. If your PMM has exploded, then you need to replace that before your RMM. The cheapest option is a used market OEM PMM, next is a solid rubber aftermarket mount, performance options are well documented.
How can I tell if my PMM has exploded?

To make things a bit complicated, I also think my coolant reserve tank has a leak. Because it's never full. I have refilled it and the coolant level doesn't stay at the max level.

Doesn't help that the PMM and the coolant reserve tank are in the same location. Thanks for your help on this!
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 Old 07-26-2017, 12:17 PM   #16
 
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Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo View Post
How can I tell if my PMM has exploded?

To make things a bit complicated, I also think my coolant reserve tank has a leak. Because it's never full. I have refilled it and the coolant level doesn't stay at the max level.

Doesn't help that the PMM and the coolant reserve tank are in the same location. Thanks for your help on this!
Frankly, what you described is pretty much what I see everyone who has the problem describe. I'd guess that yours does have the problem. Secondly, inspect the rubber of the mount very carefully. You will probably find it is torn/cracked somewhere where the oil came out. And shove the engine around with your hand, if it's broken it should move around in that mount very easily I'd think. Other than that, use Google to search the forum for some images (which is what I'd do at this point).

Also consider that you may have a radiator leak also or, worst case, a broken head gasket and your coolant is leaking into the oil. Lets hope that's not the case.
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 Old 07-26-2017, 12:25 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by aackthpt View Post
Frankly, what you described is pretty much what I see everyone who has the problem describe. I'd guess that yours does have the problem. Secondly, inspect the rubber of the mount very carefully. You will probably find it is torn/cracked somewhere where the oil came out. And shove the engine around with your hand, if it's broken it should move around in that mount very easily I'd think. Other than that, use Google to search the forum for some images (which is what I'd do at this point).

Also consider that you may have a radiator leak also or, worst case, a broken head gasket and your coolant is leaking into the oil. Lets hope that's not the case.
Further questions, and thanks for answering!

1) The rubber of the PMM can be inspected without taking the thing apart, right?

2) PMM restricts lateral engine movements, right?

Also, a quick google search gave me this image for failed Mazdaspeed 3 PMM:



I have to say, that yellow/brownish stain is very similar to the stain near my passenger side strut tower, just that my pattern is a little different. But the color is pretty much spot on.

Damn it... Upgrading parts out of necessity doesn't feel as joyful as upgrading parts for the hell of it.

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 Old 07-26-2017, 02:12 PM   #18
 
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Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo View Post
Further questions, and thanks for answering!

1) The rubber of the PMM can be inspected without taking the thing apart, right?

2) PMM restricts lateral engine movements, right?

Also, a quick google search gave me this image for failed Mazdaspeed 3 PMM:



I have to say, that yellow/brownish stain is very similar to the stain near my passenger side strut tower, just that my pattern is a little different. But the color is pretty much spot on.

Damn it... Upgrading parts out of necessity doesn't feel as joyful as upgrading parts for the hell of it.
That PMM looks like a Walmart public toilette in the morning.
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 Old 07-26-2017, 02:18 PM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo View Post
Further questions, and thanks for answering!

1) The rubber of the PMM can be inspected without taking the thing apart, right?

2) PMM restricts lateral engine movements, right?

Also, a quick google search gave me this image for failed Mazdaspeed 3 PMM:


I have to say, that yellow/brownish stain is very similar to the stain near my passenger side strut tower, just that my pattern is a little different. But the color is pretty much spot on.

Damn it... Upgrading parts out of necessity doesn't feel as joyful as upgrading parts for the hell of it.
Oh no, someone took a shit in your engine bay! Lol
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 Old 07-26-2017, 02:39 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by 5doorsoffury View Post
That PMM looks like a Walmart public toilette in the morning.
Originally Posted by JakeMS3 View Post
Oh no, someone took a shit in your engine bay! Lol
That was a picture from Google. But, my passenger side strut looks more or less like that.

Just that it's less concentrated of a pattern, more of a shotgun blast pattern.
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 Old 07-26-2017, 04:55 PM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo View Post
That was a picture from Google. But, my passenger side strut looks more or less like that.

Just that it's less concentrated of a pattern, more of a shotgun blast pattern.
Yeah I know it was from the interwebz. But if you have that brown gunk anywhere near your PMM it is busted and needs replacing.
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 Old 07-27-2017, 10:15 AM   #22
 
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Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo View Post
Further questions, and thanks for answering!
1) The rubber of the PMM can be inspected without taking the thing apart, right?
2) PMM restricts lateral engine movements, right?
Also, a quick google search gave me this image for failed Mazdaspeed 3 PMM:
I haven't seen a picture that's quite that bad previously but it's probably the same thing yeah.

Yes, you can inspect the PMM rubber without taking it off the car. It will be easier to check more parts of it with it off, or if you had a borescope ... even a dental mirror might help. But at this point it seems obvious yours is broken. Order another PMM and inspect the stocker after removal.

The PMM restricts the engine/trans up/down, and fore-aft, basically. The TMM does all those plus side-side. The PMM and TMM in concert also restrict rotation about the X and Z axes. The RMM restricts engine/trans rotation about the Y axis. Honestly I'm not entirely sure about the side-side (cross-car) but based on what I remember and how I'd design the system it makes sense to me.
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 Old 07-27-2017, 11:54 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo View Post
Yeah. That's the one I've got. I will look into replacing it, it's got close to 80,000 miles on it anyways. Thanks!

Would you say this is (still) more pressing then say, a passenger side motor mount?
Your passenger mount is blown. You definitely need to replace that. And actually, your PMM is way more important than your rear mount. The passenger and trans mount are what support the significant bulk of the weight of the motor. If it actually fails and drops the motor, you're in for a really bad time.

Don't be a cheap ass, replace them both. It probably broke because your rear mount is completely shot.
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 Old 07-27-2017, 01:59 PM   #24
 
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Originally Posted by CWP_MS3 View Post
Your passenger mount is blown. You definitely need to replace that. And actually, your PMM is way more important than your rear mount. The passenger and trans mount are what support the significant bulk of the weight of the motor. If it actually fails and drops the motor, you're in for a really bad time.

Don't be a cheap ass, replace them both. It probably broke because your rear mount is completely shot.
Fully agree with this sentiment. Replace them both.

RMM - CS "stage 2", Damond, or CP-e stage 2. No others. (OK, CS inserts and E-Focus RMM semi acceptable, kinda)

PMM - Damond, CPE 60duro, CPE 75duro. No others.

Personally I'd also say put the CS insert in your TMM while you're at it and be done with it.
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 Old 07-27-2017, 03:56 PM   #25
 
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+1 for CP-e stage 2 Rmm and damond PMM. Best daily driver combo out there unless you want the vibes.
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 Old 07-30-2017, 02:21 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by JakeMS3 View Post
Yeah I know it was from the interwebz. But if you have that brown gunk anywhere near your PMM it is busted and needs replacing.
Originally Posted by aackthpt View Post
I haven't seen a picture that's quite that bad previously but it's probably the same thing yeah.

Yes, you can inspect the PMM rubber without taking it off the car. It will be easier to check more parts of it with it off, or if you had a borescope ... even a dental mirror might help. But at this point it seems obvious yours is broken. Order another PMM and inspect the stocker after removal.

The PMM restricts the engine/trans up/down, and fore-aft, basically. The TMM does all those plus side-side. The PMM and TMM in concert also restrict rotation about the X and Z axes. The RMM restricts engine/trans rotation about the Y axis. Honestly I'm not entirely sure about the side-side (cross-car) but based on what I remember and how I'd design the system it makes sense to me.
Originally Posted by CWP_MS3 View Post
Your passenger mount is blown. You definitely need to replace that. And actually, your PMM is way more important than your rear mount. The passenger and trans mount are what support the significant bulk of the weight of the motor. If it actually fails and drops the motor, you're in for a really bad time.

Don't be a cheap ass, replace them both. It probably broke because your rear mount is completely shot.
Originally Posted by aackthpt View Post
Fully agree with this sentiment. Replace them both.

RMM - CS "stage 2", Damond, or CP-e stage 2. No others. (OK, CS inserts and E-Focus RMM semi acceptable, kinda)

PMM - Damond, CPE 60duro, CPE 75duro. No others.

Personally I'd also say put the CS insert in your TMM while you're at it and be done with it.
Originally Posted by Gnar'd Up View Post
+1 for CP-e stage 2 Rmm and damond PMM. Best daily driver combo out there unless you want the vibes.
I want to thank you all for your insights. I can tell you that for the past several months, I have been experiencing what I thought was excessive engine movements and of course, the "BANG!" in every other 2nd - 3rd shifts.

The brown/yellowish splattered gunk...



Then a slightly deeper dive...



So I have a few more questions:

Obviously, I will have to replace my PMM, and when I said replace I mean upgrade. And also, it would make sense that my RMM is either the root of the issue, or linked to this failure:

1) Since two of the three motor mounts will be of a stiffer variety, will all of the force be transferred to the remaining stock TMM? Will that accelerate the wear on the TMM?

I am hesitant because I have read that the TMM is one that will transmit the most noise and vibration into the cabin. My 60duro CP-E 1st gen RMM provided me with a very comfortable cabin once it was broken in. I'd only feel it if the AC is on. I am hoping that the 2nd Stage CP-E RMM and the Damond PMM would yield me a similar result, and not accelerate the wear on my TMM.

Thank you all for helping me out.

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 Old 07-31-2017, 05:50 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo View Post

1) Since two of the three motor mounts will be of a stiffer variety, will all of the force be transferred to the remaining stock TMM? Will that accelerate the wear on the TMM?

I am hesitant because I have read that the TMM is one that will transmit the most noise and vibration into the cabin. My 60duro CP-E 1st gen RMM provided me with a very comfortable cabin once it was broken in. I'd only feel it if the AC is on. I am hoping that the 2nd Stage CP-E RMM and the Damond PMM would yield me a similar result, and not accelerate the wear on my TMM.

Thank you all for helping me out.
From my experience, the PMM brings on the most vibes. The TMM brings mainly clutch chatter, but not much in terms of vibes. I doubt the other mounts being upgraded would have any negative impact on the TMM. If anything, they may keep it from tearing.
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 Old 07-31-2017, 09:19 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by CWP_MS3 View Post
From my experience, the PMM brings on the most vibes. The TMM brings mainly clutch chatter, but not much in terms of vibes. I doubt the other mounts being upgraded would have any negative impact on the TMM. If anything, they may keep it from tearing.
Thanks.

I guess I need to spend some money now

And I thought I left that mod life years ago.
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 Old 07-31-2017, 09:33 AM   #29
 
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Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo View Post
1) Since two of the three motor mounts will be of a stiffer variety, will all of the force be transferred to the remaining stock TMM? Will that accelerate the wear on the TMM?
It's commonly stated that upgrading some mounts but not others will increase the strain on the unmodified ones. That seems sensible but on the other hand I've never heard of a failed TMM. I haven't seeked it out either. But the CS insert I recommended is not very expensive ($40+shipping), not very difficult to install, and I'd think would eliminate the concern. It doesn't add noticeable NVH.

I can't speak for the cp-e 75 duro PMM but I will warn you that you will get more NVH from the Damond PMM than from the cp-e 60 duro PMM. just as you'd get a touch more NVH (but there wouldn't be quite so much difference) from the Damond RMM than from the CPE stage 2 RMM. Knowing that, take your choice.

Usually cp-e warrants their RMMs for life, so you could presumably send it in for repair after receiving your new one, then sell it to help defray the cost of the new stuff. You won't find too many willing buyers on the boards but I bet you could get someone on FB to pick it up.
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 Old 07-31-2017, 09:46 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by aackthpt View Post
It's commonly stated that upgrading some mounts but not others will increase the strain on the unmodified ones. That seems sensible but on the other hand I've never heard of a failed TMM. I haven't seeked it out either. But the CS insert I recommended is not very expensive ($40+shipping), not very difficult to install, and I'd think would eliminate the concern. It doesn't add noticeable NVH.

I can't speak for the cp-e 75 duro PMM but I will warn you that you will get more NVH from the Damond PMM than from the cp-e 60 duro PMM. just as you'd get a touch more NVH (but there wouldn't be quite so much difference) from the Damond RMM than from the CPE stage 2 RMM. Knowing that, take your choice.

Usually cp-e warrants their RMMs for life, so you could presumably send it in for repair after receiving your new one, then sell it to help defray the cost of the new stuff. You won't find too many willing buyers on the boards but I bet you could get someone on FB to pick it up.
I've never heard of a failed TMM either. Maybe I'll look into the inserts. Honestly, just browsing these forums, I don't think I've seen anyone listing an aftermarket TMM in their list of mods/signage.

When I first installed the 60 duro CP-E RMM, the first 1000miles or so I kind of thought it was cool because the new noises and the rigidity made my car feel like a race car. Then the mount settled in and it felt like a normal everyday daily driver again. Having had that experience, I know what I'm getting myself into as far as NVH is concerned. But thank you for confirming that there'll be an ever so slightly increase in NVH.

I'm looking forward to these new mounts. Until then, I'm going to be easy on the car. I hope I'll get to work on the car this weekend, or the next.
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I'm just confused by your choices since you're saying you're doing the DM PMM and cpe RMM. So you're going softer in the spot where going harder will give less noise increase and more performance increase? If anything it would make more sense to go DM RMM and cpe PMM. Or both cpe if you fancy yourself more sensitive. Or both Damond if you think more hardcore or like more mechanical sound.

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 Old 07-31-2017, 12:47 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by aackthpt View Post
I'm just confused by your choices since you're saying you're doing the DM PMM and cpe RMM. So you're going softer in the spot where going harder will give less noise increase and more performance increase? If anything it would make more sense to go DM RMM and cpe PMM. Or both cpe if you fancy yourself more sensitive. Or both Damond if you think more hardcore or like more mechanical sound.

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If you're asking me about my choices...

CP-E Stage 2 RMM - Checked out the new design and agreed with it. One of the few mods that has received universal praises around here, even more so than the original CP-E RMM.
Damond PMM - I think the approval rating for this thing is something close to 99%, seems like I can't make a wrong purchase here.

By the way, just ordered the Damond PMM. I'll hold off on the CP-E Stage 2 RMM, that's less pressing at the moment.

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 Old 07-31-2017, 05:49 PM   #33
 
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Not sure how I could have lost you, though maybe it explains your choices. In any case, it no longer matters.

Damond will no doubt be better than a broken stock PMM. I'm be interested to see what you have to say about it.
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 Old 07-31-2017, 06:28 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by aackthpt View Post
Not sure how I could have lost you, though maybe it explains your choices. In any case, it no longer matters.

Damond will no doubt be better than a broken stock PMM. I'm be interested to see what you have to say about it.
I'm looking forward to it.

I still plan on ordering the CP-E Stage 2 RMM. But I'd like to experience each individual upgrade by itself (broken in and everything) first, before just throwing everything onto the car.

(I don't have much on the car, but maybe later on tonight when I come home, I'll update my signage with my mods)
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 Old 07-31-2017, 11:31 PM   #35
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 Old 08-01-2017, 12:48 AM   #36
 
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Check on your CPE RMM. I had one and after 5k the bushing was torn
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 Old 08-01-2017, 04:48 AM   #37
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I had my stock TMM tear. When I went to do my clutch the bottom of the bushing literally fell out when we lifted the TMM off of the stud.
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 Old 08-01-2017, 08:39 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by trdsw View Post
Check on your CPE RMM. I had one and after 5k the bushing was torn
Will do

Originally Posted by CWP_MS3 View Post
I had my stock TMM tear. When I went to do my clutch the bottom of the bushing literally fell out when we lifted the TMM off of the stud.
What did you replace it with?

Also, nearly 100,000 miles and I'm finally asking this question. Where is the "driver" side motor mount? Does the TMM double as the "driver" side mount? Thanks!

Last edited by Say Chi Sin Lo; 08-01-2017 at 08:39 AM. Reason: MSF Database - Automerged Doublepost
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 Old 08-01-2017, 03:37 PM   #39
 
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Since the trans is on the US driver's side (transverse engine, it's gotta be one side or the other) the TMM is the same as driver's side motor mount. I have seen the term driver side motor mount used before but only a time or two.
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 Old 08-01-2017, 11:11 PM   #40
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Umm... How long does it take for Damond Motorsports to ship their stuff? It's been since Monday and I haven't gotten my shipping confirmation/tracking/it-went-out notice.
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