CPE's HPFP... looking for insights if you have one....
 

Like the title/description says, I'd like some input from people who are using CPE's HPFP. I'm due for one asap, and I don't to deal with breaking in internals for over a hundred miles, and I'd like to avoid some of the problems people have encountered.

For those of you who have the CPE HPFP, how much pressure are you holding throughout the rpm range? Do you have a couple logs I could peep on?

It would be greatly appreciated!

PS> Anyone using the Hitachi HPFP from PT-Performance? This one here:
http://www.pt-performance.com/showPr...&cID=3&pID=262

insights on that one would be great as well, but I'm thinking this one needs to be broken in. Is the one that comes with the core need to be broken is as well? Their website doesn't say, so I'm assuming yes.

I've got the PTP pump. Bought it already installed by them and returned my core. Got it a few weeks ago, broke it in the way they specified and seems to be working fine for me so far. I average in the 1,700-1,800 psi range and peak up over 2,000 on occasion. See log.

Looks very solid, and thanks for the log :)

I'm just a little sketched out on the break in period... read of a couple horror stories, lol. Still curious as to how many PSI's the CPE pump holds....

Re: CPE's HPFP... looking for insights if you have one....
 

You're always going to see horror stories because it's the people who have problems that post up about it... 99% of the people who DONT have problems don't post to say that.

It's just like popping motors - 99% of the people who own an MS3/6 don't blow, but all you see are the horror stories from that small percentage of people who do blow.

Consider the number of pumps/internals that PTP has sold, which is probably in the 200+ range - I'm guessing from the number of times PTP has had to get new batches made - and then compare that number against the handfull of reported problems… again a small percentage.

And let's not forget that not everyone who buys from PTP is on MSF - they may be on one of the other inferior boards... Also, protegegarage resells PTP internals, so I'm sure there are people who aren't on any forum, but purchase from PTP directly or from PG...

And please don't think that spending the extra $300 for a cpe pump is going to guarantee your pump is perfect... There have been cpe failures posted too - I think phillyb just posted links to those fails in another thread.

Also, PTP has stated that they are (or have already) building a rig to break in the pumps for you - if you wanna pay the extra $100 for them to do it - which still saves you about $200 from the cpe price.

You can go ahead and say I'm a PTP fanboi, but that's just because in all my dealings with John, he's been 100% honest, willing to correct any problem, willing to cut me a price break for being a repeat customer, but also because all the products I've gotten from PTP have been quality!

BTW - I purchased one of the first upgraded pumps from John when they first came out... No instructions of course lol, and started beating it from day 1 with 0 problems.

Yes, PTP forgets instructions (all the time) and yes you sometimes have to wait, and yes they're slow responding to PM's and emails (which is why they have their phone numbers listed) but in the end, their products and customer service make it worthwhile...

Thanks for the insights! -much appreciated.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to wait for this rig to be up and running. I'm picking up a pump one way or the other in the next few weeks. I'm glad you've had such excellent customer service and no problems with PTP and their products. However, I really don't want to deal with a break in period, and yeah, $300 extra is a lot to spend on CPE pump for sure, but I'd rather not deal with any potential bs or break in period... dependent on the CPE pump's performance or course. I'm not aware of any other fuel pumps that have already been broken in and tested?

I am, however, quite impressed with the fuel pressure that PTP's pumps hold. I'm still waiting to hear from someone with the CPE pump, and hopefully see some those logs...

Thanks-

Re: CPE's HPFP... looking for insights if you have one....
 

No problem...

Another thing to consider is getting the PTP pump and run it for a week or two to make sure you don't have any problems, then returning your OEM core once you're satisfied... Just something to consider...

Hopefully someone with the cpe pump will chime in for you...

what eater said...

the break in period is just driving your car with added restraint to not get in to boost. i dont think that is too much to handle.

also good luck getting a cp-e pump in your hands... unless you have a saved spot for one, you'll be waiting longer than a couple weeks

Wait time on CPE pumps? Hmm, I didn't know that.

What I can say is our pumps have been proven and we have had a few errors during the build process of them. This is a machined part and we are going to have errors or failures considering the tolerances that they have to be machined at.

We have less than a 2% failure rate and had a 1% failure rate before this last batch hit the market. Some can be blamed on installation error others can be from poor machine processes. Nothing is perfect and breaking in the pump doesn't mean that its going to be a good part "forever". Parts break and parts wear out.

We have decided to make our own test rig to break the pumps in because we want to offer a install and "GO" part for customers like yourself. Even with this option, we are going to recommend a 25 mile "cruise" period to make sure you got all the fuel lines tight and the PCM can adjust to the new fuel pressures. Just putting the pump in and going WOT from the word go is not a good idea. Doing that with any new part is just not a good idea.

So with that said, you can get one of our pumps or you can get the CPE pump. It time is money to you, the CPE option will be better since its been ran previously to you installing it. If you want to save a few $100 dollars, get ours.

Hey guys, thanks for the information and the honesty... not something you come across a lot these days. I do break everything in, or at least give the ECU time to learn the new FTs (intake, etc..), but I see your point. I would not romp on it right after install (though I admit I'd be very tempted to, lol). The break in is a bit of a pita for me because most all of my driving is in the city, so it would take a while to put that many miles on her (while consciously staying out of boost). I could take a road trip I guess.... Can you pile the 120 miles on her all in one go? Or does it have to be over a period of a few weeks?

Thanks!

P.S. I guess I'm not getting any feedback on the CPE pump because they've been on back order since inception.... I'm starting to think they don't even exist! lol

I called them on a Friday about 2 months ago and asked about a pump, and they said they had some. I drove over the next day, pulled in their shop and they swapped it out for me and I was on my way.
It performs beautifully, and I've had no problems.
If you want a CP-e, just call them (301.576.6143) and see what they can do.

I have had the CP-E pump now for about 2 years. I bought one of the first 20 units that they put out. I am quite impressed with the pump, it is little on the pricey side though. Mine will hold 1800 all the way to red line, and has done that since new. I do not have time to get a log for you right now (I recently switched to a new laptop and all the logs are on the old one) but if you can wait, I will try to load one up for you a little later.

No CPE pumps in sight... I think I'm gonna go with the Hitachi pump from PT-Performance. It is cheaper, and all I hear is great things about the company's customer service. The loot I'll save over the CPE one is going towards a DH. That way, I can monitor fuel pressure, and set alerts during the break in period, and not have to worry about what is going on.

Thanks again for all your input guys!

I just picked up a CP-e pump from therpmstore dot com yesterday and it will be here tomorrow. They are in stock, you just need to ask around. They have 3-4 more I believe. Also consider that the CP-e pump has a lifetime warranty, comes with a spec/flow sheet and is broken in. worth the extra bucks to me.

city driving is probably better since you can vary the rpm's more. you can do it on the highway, but you will look like an idiot slwoing down and speeding up to vary rpms. I drive 25 miles a day to and from work (not exactly city, but tons of red lights)so it only took me a few days to get 100 miles.

you just have to get used to shifting alot higher than normal with only light throttle.

yeah, i was about to say...according to rpmstore, they have some - http://www.therpmstore.com/product_i...roducts_id=796

they're a vendor here, it's ok man. you're allowed to link to their site.

i have a cpe pump. never goes below 1750 at WOT. in daily driving at part throttle, where on the stocker you would typically see 800-1000psi becomes 1400-1500 psi. car runs a bit smoother too. only thing i have is the idle pressure is a bit lower 410 instead of 430 but thats no biggie

I look like an idiot anyways, so this wouldn't be a big deal, LOL. Thanks for the info though, that is helpful!

D

PTP's pump is lifetime warranty also...

also, PTP's pump gives you the option of upgrading to their stage 2 and stage 3 fuel solutions

My CP-e pump is going in this Saturday, can let you know how it goes.

That's great if you catch the problem in time. However, if I'm at the track (or wherever) and the pump happened to fail in high rpms under WOT and my engine blew, I don't think the $375 or $600 refund or new pump would make me feel much better. I'm assuming neither company covers the cost of a new engine if it blows due to a fuel pump failure. I don't mean to be pessimistic, and I know that is unlikely... I'm just saying...

I'm not 100% sure, someone else may know better, but I think that if the pump seized at WOT, you would feel like you hit a wall, but your motor wouldn't blow. basically, I think it's the same as if you hit fuel cut - the pump stops delivering fuel to the engine, and you get no more combustion.

Yeah, you're right though, I doubt either PTP or CPE would cover the cost of an engine.... Although John has been known to help out guys that need motors - there's another thread out there about someone who popped their motor, and John's hooking him up with a built short block...

i know what you mean man... you dont want your pump to be the reason of failure.
upgrading isnt always gonna give you that benefit of security though...
its is highly unlikely an upgraded pump will cause any more problems than the stock pump... but then again... it happens...
Ive gotten from the "very paranoid" state of mind to the... "im tired of being paranoid, lets just hope for the best" or "fuck it" state of mind

LOL, I totally hear that! haha. I go through a brief period of paranoia whenever I add something significant to the car for about a week. I was driving my gf's 09' TL (~270hp) yesterday on the highway and some ass was driving like 5 feet behind us, despite the fact that there was traffic and no where to go. In my car I usually romp it, and watch him disappear in my rear view. Now, granted the stock MS6 is quicker than the TL... when I romped on it, I pulled away okay, but I was like wtf? Then I remembered I wasn't in my stage 2 MS6 with 3.93 final drive! Then I was thinking... damn, my car is pretty damn quick, but it's only a 2.3L with those skinny ass rods... hmmmm...maybe I should lower my boost a bit! LOL If I could afford a build, I wouldn't really care, but I cannot. Far from it, atm.

In the meantime, I'll make myself a couple stiff drinks and chill the F out! lol

yeah dude... i honestly dont think id ever get a forged engine for this car as a prevention... id rater trade my car in, put the 5-6grand down on the next car (instead of forged engine) and stop worrying...
now if i blow up.... thats a different story, not a lot of options there...
but thats why im getting OCC,fuel pump.. and stop modding now before it gets too risky.

Neither would I... I meant a build + 3076 :D

Here's a recent 4th gear log of my PTP pump below. It's getting warmer, so I haven't had much experience with the pump during the cold temps of winter like I did with the stock pump. I was seeing dips below 1200psi on the stock pump occasionally, but it'd normally recover. This pump hasn't done that and I've seen peaks of over 2,000psi. I haven't experienced any odd drops in pressure yet and I've got over 1,000 miles on the pump. Not to say it still can't happen, but it seems most of the failures have been right off the bat. When you have a part like this machined to these tolerances, there are chances of failure. Shit, look at the stock pump! There may be bad batches here and there and it sucks when it happens to you. How many CPE pumps are running around out there? I'd be willing to bet there are more PTP pumps out there at his price point than CPE pumps, so it may be hard to compare the reliability rates of both. I think once PTP starts test benching them, it will eliminate the bad apples. How many pumps does CPE fail on their test bench that you don't see? Probably quite a few. Why do you think the price is almost double the PTP pump?

exactly... there are a small handfull of cp-e pump owners, the comparison itself is apples/oranges

thats a beautiful datalog... nice setup u got.
I personally would feel safer with lower AFRs at wot, but thats just cause im a pussy about this engine

Frequentflyer, help me understand the point you're making...

First you say that there are probably more PTP pumps out there than CPE, so comparing the failure rates of both would be difficult. I don't think this is true considering the volume CPE moves, and has been moving for the last two years, but that's not really my point here...

You say that if PTP were bench testing their pumps it would "eliminate the bad apples." Well, considering CPE already bench tests their pumps, wouldn't it stand to reason they've already eliminated the bad apples as you put it? How can you say that the failure rates are comparable now, but PTP's will be even better once they're bench tested? That just doesn't make sense to me.

umm... im not a fanboy of any brand... i actually just had a ptp pump and now trying the cpe but the point i wanna make is... i think what frequentflyer means is that... the amount of ptp pumps you hear about failing is greater than cpe's simply because theres more ptp pumps out there...

bench testing would help ptp catch some of those pumps meant to fail, therefore reducing failure rate... whats so hard to understand?

LOL! First of all, I never called anyone a fanboy, so I'm not sure why you're getting defensive. I think someone needs a chill pill :wave:

Second, I asked how he can compare the reliability of both pumps to each other when he openly stated that testing them would eliminate the "bad apples" as he put it. If bench testing eliminates the bad apples, and CPE bench tests their pumps, then didn't he just answer the question as to which one is more reliable?

Is my question clear now?

Maybe John can speak up if he sees this thread, but I think he's been moving these pumps like hot cakes at his price point, especially when they first hit the market (they were cheaper). I think there are plenty of people on the border of getting a pump or not getting a pump and the CPE pump being almost $700 plus core charge scares them away. It did me. Especially when all the previous internal kits were in the $250-300 range. Like many, I was one that was willing to stay where I am with my mods rather than A) go with an "iffy" set of internals or B) buy the $700 CPE pump.

We're talking double the price for a pump that what? Works and doesn't fail? OK. I'll buy that. A pump that is already installed for you? Hmmm... well for the people that do it over and over, it takes them no time for labor. A pump that is bench tested? OK, I buy that too, but still, it's almost double the price. I've read of some claims that there are CPE pumps out there that have failed. I can't find any threads on them if they're in the forums, but again, if you bench test and break the pumps in prior to shipping them out, the chances of failure due to machining inaccuracies once they get to the consumer goes down tremendously. It most likely won't weed out long term wear issues.

I'm not PTP fanboy or any fanboy for that matter. I've got all different parts on my car from Cobb to CPE to PTP to an Ebay friggen race pipe. Whatever works and is the best bang for the buck for me.

I actually didn't compare the reliability of the pumps to each other. I said it'd be hard to compare them to each other because A) I "believe" there are more PTP pumps out there and B) PTP doesn't test bench them. But yes, for piece of mind, it is nice to have a pumps that has been tested before it's on your motor. It still doesn't guaranty anything against long term wear.

Wow look, a lucid, intelligent, and well thought out response. And from the person I quoted too! <joy>

First off, your argument regarding the price is a great one. The fact that PTP can offer the same guarantee on their parts, and for about half the price of CPE's pump is pretty incredible. If you're going for bang for the buck, there is no comparison, period. PTP wins that hands down. But since neither of us can prove who has sold more pumps, we'll have to agree to disagree. Iz all good tho g...

You didn't, but it sounds like if an equal number of pumps were sold between the two companies then you would be able to compare them, which is what originally caught my attention. My point is that since one company tests their product before it's shipped, and the other isn't, there really shouldn't be any argument as to which company will ship more failed pumps in total. That's all. I don't think that's really disputable. Do you?

And to be clear, I don't care who sells which pumps either. I just wanted to point out that until both pumps are tested, the argument as to which one is going to be more reliable overall is kind of silly in my very humble opinion. I'm just trying to be real here. Regardless, I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to respond...and even answering my question! :biggrin:

No log, but put in the cpe pump, went WOT right away, 1750-1850 right away and runs great ever since. No break in required, just instal and go. It is the shit.

That's how it should be :sombrero:

Link to John's thread where he addresses the cause of the recent pump problems:

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...failing-53259/

Thanks a lot for that link man, that was VERY helpful for me. I am going to order a pump by the end of the week, and that makes my decision a helluva lot easier :biggrin:

It sorta makes me glad I was too broke to order one a few weeks ago! lol

Just ordered the PTP pump! Thanks again for all your input guys!

PTP HPFP Installed today and broken in today
 

I was determined to break that fuel pump in by tomorrow, but I managed to break it in by today.... just barely. I just tripped the 100 mile mark at 11:57pm just before the gas light came on. I just made it in time to throw a few gallons in at the Sunoco gas station right before they closed. I burned up a 1/2 tank of gas today driving the 100 miles. It was a pita, but I wanted to get it over with so I could go back to enjoying the car. I followed the instructions to the tee.

So, after I gassed up at the Sunoco I pulled a few WOT runs with my fingers crossed. This is the 2nd WOT run, which is the best because I was able to go full WOT through first and most of 2nd. The white horizontal bar is one I put in at 1700 PSI. The blue line is fuel pressure. My stock pump was trailing off to 1,100-1,200 PSI at redline. Note the fuel pressure now at ~6,200 rpms... circled in white at the top for your viewing convenience :biggrin2: I also attached the log of the DH with the rpms highlighted from 5K to redline for both shifts.

Thank You PTP!! Great product. PITA to break in, but once you do you'll be very happy and have an extra few hundred bucks in your pocket for another mod. In my case it was a DH, and I love it.

and you were worried....:fest30: