Dirty Valves Were Dirty

[ms3blackmica]

59k on the clock...

First cleaning, ever..

I know its been said hundreds of times, but holy mother of god what a night and day difference...Engine is so responsive now. Rev's work up so much faster, extremely responsive, have to basically learn to drive the car again with how responsive its become. A good amount of power to be made back thats for sure. So this is a reminder, keep your valves clean !!


ohh and its fasttttttt !!

A couple before & after pics

[snailD]

HAHAHAHAHA i cant wait to do this in the spring. im gonna have around 52k on the clock by that time

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by snailD HAHAHAHAHA i cant wait to do this in the spring. im gonna have around 52k on the clock by that time

I just could not wait any longer lol it got pretty damn cold as i worked into the night but i just steamed through it.

I'm in love with this car all over again

[theurgy]

What procedure did you use to clean it all up?

[snailD]

Originally Posted by ms3blackmica I just could not wait any longer lol it got pretty damn cold as i worked into the night but i just steamed through it. I'm in love with this car all over again

in for new 60-100

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by theurgy What procedure did you use to clean it all up?

B12 chemtool, picks, and some other various tools from the random tools drawer. Flat hades seemed to work best for the inital scraping of the heavy layered gunk. Then shop vaccing and blasting with compressed air. Not as bad as you'd think you just have to be aggressive and go to town on them.

I will deff. be investing in a media blaster though for the next time around.

Originally Posted by snailD in for new 60-100

Shit I didn't think about that, but it would be very unfair lol Its all 50's from now on here

[Karmat]

Looking good. I gotta get around and do mine. I got a little less miles but its probably just as bad.

To derail a little bit what is the procedure to keep them clean without running water/meth? Is EGR delete and OCC sufficient or is there another awful source?

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by Karmat Looking good. I gotta get around and do mine. I got a little less miles but its probably just as bad. To derail a little bit what is the procedure to keep them clean without running water/meth? Is EGR delete and OCC sufficient or is there another awful source?

Yep, go port injection ! lol

[atvfreek]

God damn, those fuckers were dirty. Meth from day1 or bust. Haha

[anavrinIV]

NATOR NC has organized a mass cleaning for today that I'm unfortunately unable to attend. @mzr0818 has been great about getting all the tools and materials together, and has even made a special mazda adapter for the BMW blast can he's using. I know that at 57k mine will be nasty, I can't wait to get this done.

[dpolseno41]

@franz is still having nightmares.

[trf5000]

If you could get some before and after logs that would be awesome. I would love to see if you picked up any flow.

[ckMS3]

Nice job! I need to find time to do this. I'm getting a lean and rough idle and way lower VD numbers lately I'm thinking this may be the problem.

[lilred]

Mine were pretty bad at 38k

tapafuck

[dantes5823]

Originally Posted by Karmat Looking good. I gotta get around and do mine. I got a little less miles but its probably just as bad. To derail a little bit what is the procedure to keep them clean without running water/meth? Is EGR delete and OCC sufficient or is there another awful source?

OCC and egr delete are the only things you can do. If your not spraying. I got them both done around 7k and in checked em a little after meth and they look fine.

[Fatguy729]

Originally Posted by trf5000 If you could get some before and after logs that would be awesome. I would love to see if you picked up any flow.

Unnecessary... Google shit. Look at the clearance when our valves open and close. Even 1/10th of an inch of gunk will make a huge difference... Hell, research any car, di or not!

[franz]

Originally Posted by dpolseno41 @franz is still having nightmares.

Yeah it was a pain in the ass even with walnut , but we finally got a good method going alternating between B12 soaks and blasting. My car had around 80k when I did them and they were heavily coated. I wish I was able to get pics of the before and after.

I didnt do any logs because I also installed a FMIC and new intake that day, so the numbers are completely different.

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by atvfreek God damn, those fuckers were dirty. Meth from day1 or bust. Haha

LOLZ rightt??? However spraying after they are dirty does nothing, once that shit gets hard, it stays caked on. Have to spray something from day one. And hell, that may not even do it since its only spraying at WOT. Port Injection cars have fuel spraying every second of the engines life so thats what really what does it. EGR delete (which i've done about 10k miles ago) and OCC are really the best bet to decrease the amount of gunk build-up.

Originally Posted by trf5000 If you could get some before and after logs that would be awesome. I would love to see if you picked up any flow.

Tyler I did not get any before logs. But most likely I have a log around here somewhere on my computer that I could find. I'll try and do an after log for you, however I need to conserve gas right now.

Originally Posted by franz Yeah it was a pain in the ass even with walnut , but we finally got a good method going alternating between B12 soaks and blasting. My car had around 80k when I did them and they were heavily coated.

honestly the B12 method was easy. I did not soak them though, I just poured some in and went to town. The real trick is to just not be a bitch with it lol just gotta go to town.

The funniest part about it was one of my best friends was giving me a hand with it and he was a master technician at mini cooper and he said my valves were what they consider a "level 3" and that some mini's make it to a "level 9" where the valve actually needs to be removed to clean lol

[trf5000]

Originally Posted by Fatguy729 Unnecessary... Google shit. Look at the clearance when our valves open and close. Even 1/10th of an inch of gunk will make a huge difference... Hell, research any car, di or not!

I think you missed the point. It would be nice to see how much more flow at the maf cleaner valves equate to on these cars.

Nishan would be the man to do this, as he is a ninja when it comes to logs/tuning/consistency.

No hurry on the logs man, I definitely understand what is going on around there.

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by trf5000 I think you missed the point. It would be nice to see how much more flow at the maf cleaner valves equate to on these cars. Nishan would be the man to do this, as he is a ninja when it comes to logs/tuning/consistency. No hurry on the logs man, I definitely understand what is going on around there.

I'll try to get it for you homie.

Currently searching for recent logs on my laptop and ganna match the ambient temps for a new log

[Lex]

Before and after dyno or at least vdyno! No one seems to do that part.

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by Lex Before and after dyno or at least vdyno! No one seems to do that part.

I'll try my best bro

I'm pretty sure I have some before's...And I have not changed anything but clean the valves.

[tinboi479]

Damn if they are this dirty at 50k I wonder how mine look like @86k? Trying to find time to do it this year. I'll take pics to share with fellow forum members when I get it done. I'm trying to upgrade my injector seals too so I don't have to deal with it again.

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by tinboi479 Damn if they are this dirty at 50k I wonder how mine look like @86k? Trying to find time to do it this year. I'll take pics to share with fellow forum members when I get it done. I'm trying to upgrade my injector seals too so I don't have to deal with it again.

Yeah that would be a good time to do it since you'll have the manifold and everything out to clean the valves.

[theurgy]

Yeah if you're already going through the trouble of taking the manifold off.. that's the best time to do the injector seals (it's what I did).

[Ms3_Miami]

My car is at 52k and god they are gunked up. I did an EGR delete like a month ago and still havent installed an OCC.

I dont have a compressor atm but Im gonna try your method since it gave you great results. Thanks

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by Ms3_Miami My car is at 52k and god they are gunked up. I did an EGR delete like a month ago and still havent installed an OCC. I dont have a compressor atm but Im gonna try your method since it gave you great results. Thanks

Yeah i did the EGR block off around 45k (i think) miles..I now have 59k.

If you wanna know what I did in regards to cleaning...I removed the valve cover so i could see the position of the cam lobes to ensure 100% valve closure. Once i knew the valves were certainlly closed, I went ahead and poured some B12 in there.

1. Used a long flat head screwdriver to scrape the gunk off.
2. Shop Vac it up, Spray compressed air (My tank was at 150 psi), pour more B12..
3. Scrape again (dont forget to clean the stems)
4. Shop Vac it up, Spray compressed air, pour more B12..
5. Once all the main gunk is off, I used various picks to the scrape and pick off remaining carbon buildup (with B12 in there while picking).

The compressed air helps a LOT.

[Dr. Speed]

Moral of the story: OCC and EGR delete are a must.

It'd be interesting to see what valves look like after ~60K running with these...

[p057]

waiting on vdyno myself to see if its worth the job now or later. :S

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by p057 waiting on vdyno myself to see if its worth the job now or later. :S

unfortunately, don't count on it too much

vdyno's never come out accurate anymore for me. I don't know why...

no apparent wheel spin, but i never get nice graphs anymore.

i can tell you with 150% confidence, you NEED to do this because you will not regret it. its a night and day difference that you won't believe

[tddvrrn]

i did this back in june with the b12 and a gun cleaning kit. i even put the shaft for the wire brushes in a drill and went nutty. it worked well..

i got to thinking yesterday, though.. how about oven cleaner? i used it on my egr to great effect. the shit just blasted the carbon off. now, my only worry would be the caustic oven cleaner etching the head. i don't know if it would be in there long enough to create a problem, and it's not like the ports are smooth at all anyway. i just know the oven cleaner would work much faster than the b12.

just thinking out loud and looking for input.

honestly, i'll probably do the zoom cleaner shit from mazda next time i clean 'em..

[guitarzan134]

Dude speaks the truth. Some of us Nator NC guys did ours this past weekend. We used walnut blasting. Basically took ~10 minutes to clean all 8 valves/runners.

Night and day difference. Butt-dyno can tell an instant difference. Mine were disgusting @84k. There's no valid argument for "to see if it's really worth it". If your car has >30-40k and has never been cleaned, just do it. Your car will thank you.

I'm gonna need new tires soon...

[Lex]

Have you guys ever wondered why exhaust valves don't get as gunked up in both conventional and DI engines?

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by Lex Have you guys ever wondered why exhaust valves don't get as gunked up in both conventional and DI engines?

because god wanted to make our lives easier and only clean one side lol

[Ziggo]

Originally Posted by Lex Have you guys ever wondered why exhaust valves don't get as gunked up in both conventional and DI engines?

Because 1600*F

Zigatapatalka

[theurgy]

Originally Posted by Lex Have you guys ever wondered why exhaust valves don't get as gunked up in both conventional and DI engines?

My guess is the heat.

Either way, I used the Mazda Zoom Cleaner when i did mine about a month ago and it worked great, but you definitely have to spray and let it soak for a while to let it break down the carbon. Afterwards I used an engine cleaning kit which did ok, but I think the use of long picks and such were the most helpful to break up the larger chunks of deposits.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Ziggo Because 1600*F Zigatapatalka

Correct. You don't actually need THAT much heat to keep the clean. Next gen DI engines run a lot less cooling in the head around the intake valves to keep them clean.

We need a "regen" mode for intake valves where we just run them really hot for a few minutes

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by Lex We need a "regen" mode for intake valves where we just run them really hot for a few minutes

Lex you must engineer something for us then!

we must hazz

[Lex]

Interestingly diesel engine people don't worry or talk much about intake valve cleaning and they are DI cars, have been around for a long time, and run LOTS of EGR. They clog up the manifold but not much about the valves ...

Also you will see "redneck" diesel owners clean their manifold using a blowtorch.

How hot do you think we'll be able to get the intake valves if you run a lot overlap with a lot of of exhaust backpressure?

[aviator79]

Originally Posted by franz Yeah it was a pain in the ass even with walnut , but we finally got a good method going alternating between B12 soaks and blasting. My car had around 80k when I did them and they were heavily coated. I wish I was able to get pics of the before and after. I didnt do any logs because I also installed a FMIC and new intake that day, so the numbers are completely different.

I had to do the same thing with CX-7 with 60k. I am going to do an MS3 engine I bought with 60k on it before I put it in the MS6 I bought. Reminds me I have to get some B12.