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Mazdaspeed Forums (http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/)
-   MazdaSpeed 3 - Engine, Transmission & Driveline (http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f10/)
-   -   DISI Compression Results (http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f10/disi-compression-results-43395/)

SLOWHATCH 05-01-2013 07:44 PM
Finally did another test. Car has 40,500 miles. Bought used with 16,800 with dp, tp, sri, tih and no fp internals or tune. :smashfreakB:

Dry test:
Cyl 1- 180
Cyl 2- 180
Cyl 3- 165
Cyl 4- 172

Wet test:
185
185
175
175

No oil in intake etc. In process of finding someone who can do a leak down test. Still on stock injector seals. Contemplating on replacing them.

Is piston design on gen 2 the reason for what appears to be lower #'s. I see lots of gen 1's hitting 190's more often than gen2.

scubasteve711 05-15-2013 10:56 AM
7 Attachment(s)
Here's my results!

Car has 79K on it, Coolant temp was 111* during testing according to the AP. The motor was pretty warm but I could keep my hand on the valve cover with out it being too hot. Car had been run for no more than a minute to pull it into the garage bay about 30 min prior to the tests, and was driven home from work about 2.5 hours prior to test. Warmed engine, recently run engine, and possible gauge differences may be to blame for the seemingly elevated numbers... I'll try and use this gauge/tester on another DISI at some point to verify... All I know is I am extremely happy with the results being nice and even across. Engine was cranked until the gauge very little more, probably 7-9 turn overs of the engine.

Results - 1/2/3/4 as one would look at the engine from the front of the car:

(197/203/200/196)

Pictures are all below and labeled. I replaced the old plugs while in there (ITV22) they had about 40k on them. Definitely worn.

theurgy 05-15-2013 01:52 PM
Those are very good results.

scubasteve711 05-15-2013 01:54 PM
Well, fighting a pretty irritating KR issue at the moment which is why this was done... At this point, I've pulled a ton of timing and it has brought KR down, but not totally eliminated it... Next step I think is going to be to determine if this is real KR or not... Car has run more timing in the past without any issue at all.

Lex 05-15-2013 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scubasteve711 (Post 2063502)
Well, fighting a pretty irritating KR issue at the moment which is why this was done... At this point, I've pulled a ton of timing and it has brought KR down, but not totally eliminated it... Next step I think is going to be to determine if this is real KR or not... Car has run more timing in the past without any issue at all.
Put some E85 in the tank or methyl hydrate to see if it is fuel related.

theurgy 05-15-2013 01:57 PM
Hate to say it, but have you checked your intake valves?
I trust that you're datalogging these knock events.

scubasteve711 05-15-2013 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex (Post 2063510)
Put some E85 in the tank or methyl hydrate to see if it is fuel related.
No E85 around - "methyl hydrate" any good place to get this? or a more common name for it? (besides meth :p) I've heard of denatured alcohol being used in place of E85...

Quote:
Originally Posted by theurgy (Post 2063512)
Hate to say it, but have you checked your intake valves?
I trust that you're datalogging these knock events.
Yes - It is all WOT KR, and I've pulled a ton of timing out of the tune to reduce it. I'm basically not going WOT without the AP hooked up and displaying KR though at this point to avoid any issues.

No Valves never been done - this is VERY much on the to do list however. The VVT / Timing chain has never been done either - Anything that could be see in the logs regarding the VVT? The engine is a little noisy on startup, but it last for only a couple seconds and is absolutely nothing like any of the youtube vids I've seen.

theurgy 05-15-2013 02:07 PM
I know you can get some at Home Depot:
Recochem | Methyl Hydrate - 3.78 L | Home Depot Canada

Oh yeah and Valves and VVT stat... the youtube videos are pretty extreme, mine didn't make as much noise as what I heard online, however, I did notice the noise and brought it into my dealership and they confirmed and swapped it under warranty.

scubasteve711 05-15-2013 02:10 PM
As far as the warranty goes, I have an extended for exactly 600 more miles... As I am at 79k and change,,, :( This will probably be something I will be doing on my own unfortunately. I'd have to front the 200 for them to pull the valve cover and confirm, and then hope the extended covers it, by the time I spend 200 bucks, I might as well have put that towards the parts.

Starting point on how much for a tank?

theurgy 05-15-2013 02:11 PM
I would ask @Lex; on that one.. he's the expert.

scubasteve711 05-15-2013 02:17 PM
ahhh f*ck a duck... Us US peoples can't get that stuff... Brings me back to denatured alcohol lol...

Tokay444 05-15-2013 02:40 PM
A gallon of meth in tank will tell you if it's fuel related real knock b

Dano 05-15-2013 03:06 PM
Results on my new motor with 350 miles

185 across the board on a very warm motor. PU pistons.

Lex 05-15-2013 03:30 PM
methanol, I would put in 1 gallon per tank for testing, e85 2 gallons.

sidekick 05-15-2013 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidekick (Post 1968752)
My compression test numbers before buying the car:
190 - 165 - 150 - 175

I have noticed that since I started running 18PSI, it seems like I've been losing/burning more oil. Every fill up (about 1 week/200-250 miles), I lose about 1/4 of a quart of oil. I assume that is PCV related, since it only started happening after turning up the boost, but an OCC should put an end to that, if that's the case.

Clearly there is something up with cylinder #3 , but I have not done a leak down test. The car seems to run fine overall, maybe a slightly rough idle, but it also has not had the valves cleaned yet and needs a new VVT actuator/timing chain. It makes pretty good power, but @cld12pk2go; pointed out that I seem to be making lower numbers than he would expect. However, I'm also right on par with my old speed3 with the same mods in terms of crank horsepower, so I'm not too sure what to think.

Honestly, if anything, I expect it to be a cracked ringland. The oil loss and low compression point right at that. I will do a leakdown test sometime soon and try to figure it out. The best part? The dealership tech who did the test stated "the engine is in very good health" on the work order. It's pretty much outside of Mazda's specs even if you don't count the highest cylinder. It has received a healthy amount of beating over the last 3 months, so I may do a compression test next time I pull the TMIC, just to see if it has changed.
I made this post about a page back, but it turns out the techs that did the compression test did something wrong. Either they didn't crank until the number finished going up or they let the car cool down too much before doing the test. I finally got a compression tester kit that actually worked, so I did a compression test while I was tearing it down to do VVT/timing chain. I had the plugs out within 20 minutes of turning the car off and started doing the compression test right away. Here are my results from today:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7287/8...e4fcfdac_c.jpg

I did the test twice just to make sure and I got pretty much exactly the same numbers. I'm thinking my oil consumption may be either PCV related or turbocharger seal related. I will look further into the oil consumption issue after I finish the VVT/timing chain swap.

@Dano; @Lex;


Edit: This is with close to 87K miles too, even though the numbers themselves may be slightly off, I'm amazed that they are all within 10PSI(about 5-6% variance) of each other.

Lex 05-15-2013 10:03 PM
Those numbers look strong to me. A good indicator for blowby is oil in your intake tract via the valve cover vent.

Dano 05-15-2013 11:27 PM
+1 on the oil in the TIP. if you go the extra mile and pull it you may see oil pooling in the compressor inlet like I did but that was with a busted ringland and your numbers don't seem to point to something that severe.

BackRoads 05-16-2013 11:51 AM
Ok, had the techs do a comp test this morning - I am now at 165k.

155
150
155
145

I plan to put in the step-colder plugs soon, and will probably see if I can get a gauge and do my own leak-down test as well. The gauge is not very expensive, is it?

theurgy 05-16-2013 01:13 PM
Depends on the ones you get. The ones on ebay or Harbor Freight are pretty cheap.. but you get what you pay for on those.
Have you considered renting one?
I know there are some places that loan them (with a deposit) or rent them.

himurax13 05-16-2013 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BackRoads (Post 2065317)
Ok, had the techs do a comp test this morning - I am now at 165k.

155
150
155
145

I plan to put in the step-colder plugs soon, and will probably see if I can get a gauge and do my own leak-down test as well. The gauge is not very expensive, is it?
I posted the link for the Craftsman one I purchased for $55 earlier. Its a nice set.

Sent via rental car

sidekick 05-16-2013 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dano (Post 2064534)
+1 on the oil in the TIP. if you go the extra mile and pull it you may see oil pooling in the compressor inlet like I did but that was with a busted ringland and your numbers don't seem to point to something that severe.
Last time I pulled the TIP there was some oil entering it via the valve cover vent, but not much and it didn't seem to be pooled up in there. There is a pool of oil in the TB coupler though and my turbo inlet does not have wet oil on it, but the compressor blades are black, which I'm assuming is from oil.

Is it possible I could be consuming this much oil via the turbocharger seals and my stock cats are not allowing me to see the smoke? I suppose it even could smoke, but I've never seen it. I suppose it could also be related in some way to the PCV valve itself. I'm just not sure how I can pin point the source of the oil consumption.

I spoke to a mechanic I know and he said he had a very similar issue with an N/A 2.3, but everything was in good mechanical condition and even replacing the PCV didn't help, but Mazda didn't offer any guidance because it fell within the "acceptable" range of 1 QT per 1K miles.
@Lex;

Lex 05-16-2013 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidekick (Post 2065777)
Last time I pulled the TIP there was some oil entering it via the valve cover vent, but not much and it didn't seem to be pooled up in there. There is a pool of oil in the TB coupler though and my turbo inlet does not have wet oil on it, but the compressor blades are black, which I'm assuming is from oil.

Is it possible I could be consuming this much oil via the turbocharger seals and my stock cats are not allowing me to see the smoke? I suppose it even could smoke, but I've never seen it. I suppose it could also be related in some way to the PCV valve itself. I'm just not sure how I can pin point the source of the oil consumption.

I spoke to a mechanic I know and he said he had a very similar issue with an N/A 2.3, but everything was in good mechanical condition and even replacing the PCV didn't help, but Mazda didn't offer any guidance because it fell within the "acceptable" range of 1 QT per 1K miles.
@Lex;
Have someone tail you in another car and see if you get blue smoke under vacuum (coasting) or under acceleration. If it's not leaking that much oil will make some smoke (and smell).

Tokay444 05-16-2013 07:40 PM
I'm pretty convinced my oil consumption issue is turbo related. Under boost only.
Small pool at the throttle body. And my valve cover is vta'd. No where else for it to come from.
Try that. Clean the throttle body and coupler. Clean the intercooler, and cap the tip and vta the valve cover. Then see if you still get oil at the throttle body.

Dahouse702 05-18-2013 02:45 PM
2007 MS3 85k miles
motor was hot relay removed and clutch/gas floored. :(

DRY
1-182
2-152
3-156
4-182

btstarcher 05-18-2013 02:59 PM
Isn't it usually the head gasket if the middle two cylinders are both low?

atvfreek 05-18-2013 06:28 PM
Checked mine today. 170-170-165-170

timjs 05-18-2013 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by btstarcher (Post 2069166)
Isn't it usually the head gasket if the middle two cylinders are both low?
Yes. Low compression in adjacent cylinders can indicate leakage between cylinders, especially if they are similarly low.

cld12pk2go 06-02-2013 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cld12pk2go (Post 1969608)
I cranked over the engine about 10-11 revolutions...

Compression check results:

Driver side to Passenger side (I forget the numerical order)

182-176-174-177

4.5% delta between max/min. I can live with that at ~500whp.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...psde7696a8.jpg

I love these motors...

Measured again today.

Cranked ~12 revolutions on each:

1 - 186
2 - 183
3 - 181
4 - 180

~3% spread. I still seem to have a happy engine. :-)

ABolewski 06-02-2013 12:24 PM
I'm at 107/115/120/110.
Trying to get another gauge on there but the gallon of oil in my intercooler suggests that those reading are correct.
How awesome is that?
But I deploy in two months so I'm DD'ing on the economy map until I can store it.

Dat Kaboom tune lyfe yo

btstarcher 06-02-2013 12:40 PM
Was that with the engine at operating temperature?

ABolewski 06-02-2013 01:21 PM
Yes after a good long drive (100+ miles) pulled into the drive way and went to work.
I'll post up some pictures later. I have no idea how my engine still runs. So much fucking oil it's insane. I'm going to try to get another tester on it, but the one I bought was a $50 one that was supposed to be decent. Not a cheap autozone one.

Lex 06-02-2013 01:38 PM
Make sure you crank it until the needled stops rising.

himurax13 06-02-2013 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABolewski (Post 2093575)
Yes after a good long drive (100+ miles) pulled into the drive way and went to work.
I'll post up some pictures later. I have no idea how my engine still runs. So much fucking oil it's insane. I'm going to try to get another tester on it, but the one I bought was a $50 one that was supposed to be decent. Not a cheap autozone one.
Is there oil in the intake as well?

This is a decent and affordable tester.
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-compr...p-00947089000P

Sent via blown passenger side speakers.

ABolewski 06-02-2013 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex (Post 2093595)
Make sure you crank it until the needled stops rising.
I did, both using the starter and then cranking it manually.

And there is oil in the intake too. My engine is toast. I just can't believe it's that low and not zzb'd, I'm just staying entirely out of boost until I can store it.

himurax13 06-02-2013 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABolewski (Post 2093734)
I did, both using the starter and then cranking it manually.

And there is oil in the intake too. My engine is toast. I just can't believe it's that low and not zzb'd, I'm just staying entirely out of boost until I can store it.
Can you stock it out?

Sent via blown passenger side speakers.

sidekick 06-02-2013 05:23 PM
So you had no issues until dantes tuned you @ABolewski;

ABolewski 06-02-2013 05:57 PM
I guess it's possible to stock out, but I'd need a stock intake manifold and gasket, a cbe, and I think a EGR tube (not sure where it is).
The problem is I do not have the time to do that before I deploy.
Maybe I'll put a little more thought into it and see if stocking out is a possibility.

First, is it even possible givin I've done all of my own oil changes, and it'll still be an obviously highly modded car?

And yes, my engine was perfectly gone until Dantes tuned me.

himurax13 06-02-2013 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABolewski (Post 2093861)
I guess it's possible to stock out, but I'd need a stock intake manifold and gasket, a cbe, and I think a EGR tube (not sure where it is).
The problem is I do not have the time to do that before I deploy.
Maybe I'll put a little more thought into it and see if stocking out is a possibility.

First, is it even possible givin I've done all of my own oil changes, and it'll still be an obviously highly modded car?

And yes, my engine was perfectly gone until Dantes tuned me.
As long as you have the receipts for the oil and filters you will be fine. How long will you be deployed for?
@lilred; still has his oem Catback.

I decided to do a compression test with 3300 miles on the new engine.

190
188
190
186

Sent via blown passenger side speakers.

ABolewski 06-02-2013 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by himurax13 (Post 2093962)
As long as you have the receipts for the oil and filters you will be fine. How long will you be deployed for?
@lilred; still has his oem Catback.

I decided to do a compression test with 3300 miles on the new engine.

190
188
190
186

Sent via blown passenger side speakers.
Definitely don't have any of that shit. Hahah
And I deploy from August '13 to March '14.

The thing is I literally have no time for that at all. I have like 6 days off for the next two months before I deploy. I don't want to even think how it would be possible for me to do that.

Thanks for your help though man.

himurax13 06-03-2013 12:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABolewski (Post 2094151)
Definitely don't have any of that shit. Hahah
And I deploy from August '13 to March '14.

The thing is I literally have no time for that at all. I have like 6 days off for the next two months before I deploy. I don't want to even think how it would be possible for me to do that.

Thanks for your help though man.
12 hours if you have no suspension to remove and if lots of fail is involved, haha. Just have someone buy oil filters and oil while you are gone every few months. Its doable but arrangements need to be made before bringing it in.;-)

Sent via blown passenger side speakers.


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