Drop-in forged internals

[SilverDemon]

I calculated the static compression ration on my built motor....piston was .050" in the hole, 13.5cc inverted dome on the wiseco piston...and I can't remember the combustion chambers off the top of my head, but it calculated out to 9.49:1 with the stock .039" 3 layer head gasket...change to a 5 layer cometic .070" gasket and I think it brought it down to around 9.2:1

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Im running ~2.2 load at 2000rpm, stock block and turbo, zero knock. I am also running ~30* max cam advance from idle to about 1500rpm because there isnt enough oil pressure to keep the vvt from hitting its internal stops.

I'm talking about nitrous

[Chimmike]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Im running ~2.2 load at 2000rpm, stock block and turbo, zero knock. I am also running ~30* max cam advance from idle to about 1500rpm because there isnt enough oil pressure to keep the vvt from hitting its internal stops.

So Kmac is running around with 500whp. Is he touching the ceiling or does he still have headroom with stock pistons and rods?

[SilverDemon]

Originally Posted by MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex I'm talking about nitrous

Piston and ring clearance is set up on my engine for N2O....

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

Originally Posted by SilverDemon Piston and ring clearance is set up on my engine for N2O....

Then wtf are you waiting for?! Lol

[SilverDemon]

Originally Posted by MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex Then wtf are you waiting for?! Lol

Money...money...monnnnney!!!

No fear though...N2O is right around the corner.

[djuosnteisn]

Jar jar jar jar... i'm late to his party.

Originally Posted by MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex No, the bearings should already be manufactured to the correct clearance.

GL with that Tommy boy. All bearing thicknesses will vary batch to batch, even if they're all called "standard", or "10 under / 20 under"... etc. Serious race teams who rebuild motors on the regular, will keep a shelf of all "standard" or "over-sized" bearings, and measure them til they find one that's perfect. At least that's what they do according to my machinist (i've never been on a serious race team, hahaha).

You'd certainly want to at least check the clearances of the new rod bearings.

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 ...or source some oversize bearings...

AFAIK, there still aren't any over-sized rod bearings available. Only mains. That's why you have to either coat em, or lap the rod caps like bluestreak did. I mentioned the rod cap method to my machinist and he said he wasn't a fan of that approach. But both probably work just fine IMO.




Doing a rod swap in the car sounds risky, and kinda difficult. But i guess it's doable. I just think it invites a lot of opportunity for "fail". But shit... what doesn't lol.

If you do it Tom, lots of pics mandatory.

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Im running ~2.2 load at 2000rpm, stock block and turbo, zero knock. I am also running ~30* max cam advance from idle to about 1500rpm because there isnt enough oil pressure to keep the vvt from hitting its internal stops.

Hahaha, so the diesel transformation has begun?

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Jar jar jar jar... i'm late to his party. GL with that Tommy boy. All bearing thicknesses will vary batch to batch, even if they're all called "standard", or "10 under / 20 under"... etc. Serious race teams who rebuild motors on the regular, will keep a shelf of all "standard" or "over-sized" bearings, and measure them til they find one that's perfect. At least that's what they do according to my machinist (i've never been on a serious race team, hahaha). You'd certainly want to at least check the clearances of the new rod bearings. AFAIK, there still aren't any over-sized rod bearings available. Only mains. That's why you have to either coat em, or lap the rod caps like bluestreak did. I mentioned the rod cap method to my machinist and he said he wasn't a fan of that approach. But both probably work just fine IMO. Doing a rod swap in the car sounds risky, and kinda difficult. But i guess it's doable. I just think it invites a lot of opportunity for "fail". But shit... what doesn't lol. If you do it Tom, lots of pics mandatory. Hahaha, so the diesel transformation has begun?

Pics and a write up will certainly be a given good sir. The bearings still seem to be the only issue. I looked and it seemed rockauto offered our rod bearings in .010 and .020 thicker along with standard. Maybe I'll just order one set of each and pray to god one set will meet the correct clearance lol.

Rockauto link: 2007 MAZDA 3 Connecting Rod Bearing

Itd be more than just a rod swap though. Bearings, gaskets, pistons, head studs and cylinder hone are pretty much everything I associate with a drop-in internals swap.

The rod bearings seem to be the biggest issue here still. Besides my inexperience in removing and working with our cylinder head but whatever, I'll figure this shit out lol.

[djuosnteisn]

Fucking DOPE. I'm gonna order a set of those 10 unders for a build i'm doing right meow.

Bout time, i've never even heard of DNJ before lol. And honestly man, the time spent pulling the motor would probably be more than worth it to do all that work on a motor stand. But i'm rooting for you, wanna see it done in car.

You have my number, if you have any questions at all

When is this gonna happen?

.... and man... $30 seems awfully cheap for bearings.

[06Speed6]

Sure those arent mzr journal bearings? I believe they are smaler than mzr-disi bearings.

[kmac]

Originally Posted by chimmike So Kmac is running around with 500whp. Is he touching the ceiling or does he still have headroom with stock pistons and rods?

I thiunk I have maxed the stock shit. It's border line reliable. any further and I believe it will pop. I can push it for bragging rights , but as of now 503 with a blown clutch is impressive enough for me.

[06Speed6]

500whp is pretty impressive for the stock head, im not so sure its impressive for the stock bottom end. I ballparked the stock head around 420whp or 475-480ish crank before it becomes a restriction and you are way past that.

[mrmonk7663]

What would you consider impressive for the stock bottom end?

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 500whp is pretty impressive for the stock head, im not so sure its impressive for the stock bottom end. I ballparked the stock head around 420whp or 475-480ish crank before it becomes a restriction and you are way past that.

[06Speed6]

I dont know, its been pushed over 1000hp in that drag car. Ide say 600 to 700 daily would be very impressive, at 500hp in a 4 cylinder we are already we are already showing off one of the top oem short blocks ever produced.

[Bucker]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 I dont know, its been pushed over 1000hp in that drag car. Ide say 600 to 700 daily would be very impressive, at 500hp in a 4 cylinder we are already we are already showing off one of the top oem short blocks ever produced.

So true. And people bitch about this thing non-stop.

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Fucking DOPE. I'm gonna order a set of those 10 unders for a build i'm doing right meow. Bout time, i've never even heard of DNJ before lol. And honestly man, the time spent pulling the motor would probably be more than worth it to do all that work on a motor stand. But i'm rooting for you, wanna see it done in car. You have my number, if you have any questions at all When is this gonna happen? .... and man... $30 seems awfully cheap for bearings.

Yes I've got your number lol.

Not sure on the time frame yet. Preferably after jesse gets his together so I have an idea about what bearings to buy for the Eagle rods.

I'm hoping before the April track rental if I can swing it financially though.

[06Speed6]

I looked up those rod bearings and they are for the n/a 2.3 and it has a different rod bore diamater.

[djuosnteisn]

So.... back to coating lol.

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

I'm speaking with maperformance about his bearing issue now.

[essejkcamraw]

Originally Posted by MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex That sucks man. What's the time frame for you getting it back together? What about bearings, gaskets etc..? Also, what pistons are you running?

not sure time frame. sooner the better really, it's basically just me doin the work and right as the car went down, about two weeks later I was in a car accident where my side of the car was hit and my backs been fucked up since. bending over and getting from underneath the car sucks.

it's been work and going 3 times a week for therapy so it hasn't left me much time or ability at this point. Ideally I'd like to spend this coming weekend getting a bunch done if possible, beer and pain pills should make it interesting.

I'll be using Wiseco pistons, same as I used with the K1s. I still have perfect compression in the motor, just a spun bearing in cyl#1 cyl walls still look perfect. hell, the other 3 rods are perfect haha.

I'll be sticking with all OE gaskets and bearings hopefully. minus the head gasket, I'll be throwing on a Cometic this time. I'll see how the Eagles match up with the bearings when I get everything, last I checked the rods were being cut then shipped out to me.

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

Originally Posted by essejkcamraw not sure time frame. sooner the better really, it's basically just me doin the work and right as the car went down, about two weeks later I was in a car accident where my side of the car was hit and my backs been fucked up since. bending over and getting from underneath the car sucks. it's been work and going 3 times a week for therapy so it hasn't left me much time or ability at this point. Ideally I'd like to spend this coming weekend getting a bunch done if possible, beer and pain pills should make it interesting. I'll be using Wiseco pistons, same as I used with the K1s. I still have perfect compression in the motor, just a spun bearing in cyl#1 cyl walls still look perfect. hell, the other 3 rods are perfect haha. I'll be sticking with all OE gaskets and bearings hopefully. minus the head gasket, I'll be throwing on a Cometic this time. I'll see how the Eagles match up with the bearings when I get everything, last I checked the rods were being cut then shipped out to me.

Sorry to hear about he accident man.

If you get to it this weekend let us know.

[kmac]

I'm really interested to see how this pans out.

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

Anyone have a spare long block? Lol

[NJSPEED3]

lmao, I dont really see the point here. All you're really doing is saving yourself maybe $200-$300 in machine shop labor costs, and avoiding to pull the motor, which is a dumb idea in its self. This isnt an Evo Tom, and re-timing our heads inside the car is definitely not for the weekend mechanic.

I paid less then $500 to have my block hot washed, checked for clearances, balanced and assembled. I mean if someone is going to go threw all the trouble of building a performance engine why cut corners? One should also keep in mind that most guys building their motor are likely going to upgrade their clutch set up at the same time. Consider how much easier and better it is to do all this with the engine outside the car vs. the small amount of money that you will save, first Tom.

[Chimmike]

I timed my engine with the motor in the car, using the cam and crank tools for my VVT swap. Ain't a whole ton more work involved after that to pop the head off, drop the oil pan and girdle and swap pistons/rods honestly.

Not the easiest thing to do, but definitely, definitey doable.

[NJSPEED3]

Its def doable didnt say it wasnt, I just dont see the point.

[Chimmike]

point? You can do it in a full weekend and be back on the road to drive to work monday (that would be the point for me, haha)

[driver311]

Im actually thinking about doing this same thing to mine very soon. As soon as I make my mind up Illl post my own thread. Glad to see Im not the only one thinking of doing this. Been very tossed on leavin in the car or pulling.

[Chimmike]

The only thing I can think, as someone mentioned before in this thread, is prepare yourself with a full set of bearings and potentially a coated set of bearings if you're doing it in a quick weekend.

Otherwise, these things are precision manufactured so I doubt they'd be significantly different in weight from one or the other, or at least much worse than stock.

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

JP is talking to both Clevite and ACL about bearings for us

[DiGi Faggot]

Subscribed for updates. I'd love to see a write up on this seeing as I blew a piston ring in #4. Just looking for options.

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

Originally Posted by DiGi Subscribed for updates. I'd love to see a write up on this seeing as I blew a piston ring in #4. Just looking for options.

If a ring came apart in the cylinder, odds are your cylinder walls are scored. If that's the case then you'll need to machine the cylinder to remove the gouges. To get the machine work done you'll need to pull the engine. This process is not a solution to damaged engines.

[Tomas]

So when is this happening?
Can't handle the suspense. lol

[cld12pk2go]

Update?

[86AmishMs3]

Do it...best to be pro-active instead of reactive. I'm thinking about just a rod swap when I get some money and time.

[DiGi Faggot]

<--- Doing it next month. Either doing drop ins or i'm going to just replace the rings.

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

Still dying to do this so I can throw a 100shot at the car on stock snail lol. With the eventual goal to run a GTX2867 + spray. A built block would make me feel a lot better about that.

@Death-From-A-Mile had made a thread regarding doing this particular swap. Any results Scott?

@atvfreek and @dougefresh_ did this on Dougs car recently too. What kind of insight do you guys have?

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex Still dying to do this so I can throw a 100shot at the car on stock snail lol. With the eventual goal to run a GTX2867 + spray. A built block would make me feel a lot better about that. @Death-From-A-Mile had made a thread regarding doing this particular swap. Any results Scott? @atvfreek and @dougefresh_ did this on Dougs car recently too. What kind of insight do you guys have?

Honestly, a rod swap is piece of cake. It's really only a couple more steps than doing and oil pan and a head gasket. I can give you a full rundown on how it's done if you want. With a lift at my work, I could do this job in a day. On the ground, like we did it at my house, it's a day and half/weekend job.

Edit: Do we know exactly what performance rods will work with stock gen2 pistons? I have researched that far yet. On Doug's car we used a stock rod.

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

Originally Posted by atvfreek Honestly, a rod swap is piece of cake. It's really only a couple more steps than doing and oil pan and a head gasket. I can give you a full rundown on how it's done if you want. With a lift at my work, I could do this job in a day. On the ground, like we did it at my house, it's a day and half/weekend job. Edit: Do we know exactly what performance rods will work with stock gen2 pistons? I have researched that far yet. On Doug's car we used a stock rod.

I've got no idea. If I were to do this I'd be usig Eagle rods and CP pistons

[Tomas]

All aftermarket rods will work with the stock pistons as long as the small end bush accepts 22.50mm wrist pins.
The problem is with aftermarket pistons. Some of them hit the oil jets.
I am about 99% sure on this.

I have been looking into this drop in forged internals myself. Wish the god damn timing chain rail on the intake side of the engine would be like the exhaust side which is just sitting on a pin instead of bolted to the head. If the timing cover had a plug that you could remove to get at that bolt that would work too.
That way you would not have to remove the timing cover to take the head of. That would make this job sooo much easier.