dun dun dun... its cursed

[dadasracecar]

Captain, thank you for a very plausible explanation for Jon's problem. I do however, have a big problem with the fact that no one with a built motor, save for evilmonkey, is posting dynos or impressions or anything for that matter. Why? You build a motor for making power and the absence of correspondence from those that have done so is suspicious.

PTP, wtf dood? You're a complete waste with your rampant and incessant innuendo over problems you've encountered and "solved." Where's your fuel mod? Now you speculate on this. It's my understanding that the block is already sleeved so again, WTF? Put up or shut up.

[bova]

so retarded. i hate when people say they know what a problem is but won't share the solution or actually say what the problem is. why say anything if you aren't going to actually provide something useful?

[JimmyMac]

He's probably kicking back early on the eggnog.....

[bova]

he has been saying his fuel pumps were going to be done for quite some time now so i take anything ptp has to say with a grain of salt. i think he has also dealt out a handful of shitty turbos.

[phailerider]

lol...for sure.

[MazdaMan13]

yea wth i think everyone should know wat you know ptp

[crazyitalian041]

>.< this in pretty crazy stuff.

[Grim]

WTF you cannot say that you know what the problem is with all the blown motors then not say what it is.

[crazyitalian041]

apparently he just did...

[CaptainKRM]

Originally Posted by dadasracecar Captain, thank you for a very plausible explanation for Jon's problem. I do however, have a big problem with the fact that no one with a built motor, save for evilmonkey, is posting dynos or impressions or anything for that matter. Why? You build a motor for making power and the absence of correspondence from those that have done so is suspicious. PTP, wtf dood? You're a complete waste with your rampant and incessant innuendo over problems you've encountered and "solved." Where's your fuel mod? Now you speculate on this. It's my understanding that the block is already sleeved so again, WTF? Put up or shut up.

well unlike some, i have no problem sharing information or thoughts with the forum when i see what i perceive to be a problem and a solution. there are several people on 6club who posted impressions of some earlier built motors we had done before the winter of 2007/2008, none of which blew during that winter time - which i see has apparently been predicted in this thread for built engines this winter.

stock compression was also brought up as a problem for building a motor. i fail to see how that is possible, at least on my end, when we've built one engine to date with a stock compression piston. i personally prefer to go lower compression and everyone knows that. and its been well proven by now that going 8.8:1 is not a problem.

dynos and impressions were also posted by skylinemonster over on 24/7. he probably has more miles and time on one of our shortblocks than anyone to date and has never had a problem. the information is out there if people are willing to look. and no offense, i've said it before, not everyone with one of these cars much less a specific part posts on mazdaspeedforums. its not a slight to this place to say that. some people just don't come over here.

its not like there is total absence of correspondence either. i have spoken to a few people on the phone who have bought them and they've been positive about this. if people were dropping $5000 plus on builds from us that were going bad, i don't think that the collective dozen or so of them would not say at least one thing somewhere. i can say if i spent that much and it came up short, much less bad, i'd be all over the place crying foul.

i recall when a member over on the 24/7 forums had a shop assemble his short block and head and within a half hour the engine was junked. it was one of the first built short blocks and people were quick blame the internals or our work. when they found two snapped camshafts and a warped head, things were a bit different. they kept dropping new or used cams into it and using the warped head, and could never figure out why that wouldn't work or why it was a bad idea.

i spoke to jon again and his rings, as he told me, were all seized into the piston and were not removable. even the thin oil control rings. i think it goes without saying that lends some credence to the ring gap argument. we didn't build jon's motor, so i can't say what was or was not done to it when it was built. all i can stress is - especially when using a used block - tolerances are extremely important. factory clearances are extremely important. supplied spec sheets from the manufacturers of the internals are very important. you can make parts as tough as possible, but if its not put together right, things will invariably go wrong and will go wrong in the worst possible way.

[dadasracecar]

I agree with you here and think your explanation is the most probable. Where though are jcemgt2003's results or skylinemonsters. I would think that as a sponsor of this forum and a vendor of built motors you would be all over the place posting the results from your builds. This isn't just directed at you. I wondered aloud about mrlilguy and read with great interest chriscecc's issues. Where are the guys with the built motors? What are the problems they are having. Are they being timed wrong. Are the proper bearings being used in the rotating assembly? Why the issues with cams, etc? It irks me that guys talk big game about getting built and then disappear leaving us all to wonder and essentially break new ground every time someone tries to build their motor.

[oskinosmee]

Why put it out there and not share? You couldve just pmed them. Now who the hell on this forum will buy it from you. Share it or dont bring it up.

[Grim]

i doubt he even knows,he just wanted to sound cool.

[Lymerock]

Originally Posted by CaptainKRM i think it goes without saying that lends some credence to the ring gap argument. we didn't build jon's motor, so i can't say what was or was not done to it when it was built. all i can stress is - especially when using a used block - tolerances are extremely important. factory clearances are extremely important. supplied spec sheets from the manufacturers of the internals are very important. you can make parts as tough as possible, but if its not put together right, things will invariably go wrong and will go wrong in the worst possible way.

QFT
too little ring gap was my first guess when I saw the pics of the piston, extremely important because with heat expansion under full engine load, the ends of the ring will butt together and destroy the ring, cylinder wall, and piston.

[phailerider]

well again...my car goes on the dyno today. the issues with the head/ injectors have been resolved. now we'll see what the bottom end has to say about it.

[Grim]

how much boost?

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by palerider well again...my car goes on the dyno today. the issues with the head/ injectors have been resolved. now we'll see what the bottom end has to say about it.

How'd you fix the injector issue new seals?

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Grim how much boost?

as much as we can give it and not have maf or fuel issues. we'll see.

Originally Posted by Darksun280 How'd you fix the injector issue new seals?

new seals installed correctly. all that backfire is gone for now anyway.

[whoosh@Realtune]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 How'd you fix the injector issue new seals?

just to add
I actually encountered an issue when swapping injectors
keep this diagram for future use
each injector has 5 seals
1 between the head and inj
4 between the inj top and rail
I had an issue with the seals between the head and injector
they have a concave shape and must be installed rounded part toward the injector
if you have a bad ring seal and need replacements, they are about $30 each from the stealer
if you want to completely o-ring your injectors with new parts, it will cost you near $240.00

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by whoosh just to add I actually encountered an issue when swapping injectors keep this diagram for future use each injector has 5 seals 1 between the head and inj 4 between the inj top and rail I had an issue with the seals between the head and injector they have a concave shape and must be installed rounded part toward the injector if you have a bad ring seal and need replacements, they are about $30 each from the stealer if you want to completely o-ring your injectors with new parts, it will cost you near $240.00

Probably going to copy and stick your post. We need a parts database with part numbers

[boosted3]

Originally Posted by boost_me see... shit like this is the reason why i'm going to keep on keeping on...! lead the way palerider.... i love my MS3 and none can change that! ...well maybe an evo X @ 350 a month with 0 down... :l augh2:

well u guys waste all ur money thenbulding ur beast ,im gona be buying a house were i can actually get money back from putting in.enjoy

[CaptainKRM]

Originally Posted by boosted3 well u guys waste all ur money thenbulding ur beast ,im gona be buying a house were i can actually get money back from putting in.enjoy

thankfully some people are in a position to do both

[Erich]

Originally Posted by boosted3 well u guys waste all ur money thenbulding ur beast ,im gona be buying a house were i can actually get money back from putting in.enjoy

Because home values are skyrocketing right now.

[Laloosh]

every1...ptp will let you know in 2 weeks, just wait for nothing, like all his other promised parts/solutions...if you wanna call it that

[reddeerspeed3]

i really hope you guys get this shit figured out before i get to the point of needing to build

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by JimmyMac So if you know the problem, why are you keeping it secret? Why not help the community? Or are you just out to help yourself?

$7700 worth of junk motors it what it cost me. Send me the $7700 and I will let you know what the fix is.

I also want to confirm 100% that it fixes the problem. 2 people are running the new machined parts right now and we will be running one personally here in the next few months.

Am I here to help myself? Well if you consider that I make parts for cars and expect to get paid for what I offer then... I guess so. I am here to bennifit from my work, just as you will when we post the results. Now its not going to cost you a bunch of money to get it done, but it will be labor intensive to get it done (tear down the motor).

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by JimmyMac $350 a month and 0 down? Really? I wonder how much insurance would jump..... So what's this fix? Timing? Head work?

Head work. I will toss you a bone... themal fractures from the DI not getting to parts of the chamber to cool properly. This only happens on motors that have crossed a set power limit. I would almost have to say that Mazda designed the motors to do this because its such a large screw up.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by bf360 posting something like this is bs, ive tried to keep your shop in good faith but come on how can you not let people know what you think needs to be done? We need to go into this together, if not this community will get no where

Because it cost us to find out. I don't see other shops offering there services up for free. Not only that but I am also taking a look at getting a PAT PEND on it. I am sorry that you feel I have shorted you some how, that was not the case. I also want to make 100% sure this fixes the problem. I can tell you that we did the 5 layer head gasket for a reason, not sure if that helps any.

Originally Posted by mdogg more pointing out what is wrong with the "everyone else" and offering zero solutions? par for the course it seems...

Well then tell the person that may have a solution to piss off then. See how happy he is to help then. I didn't come in here to piss anyone off and I have some pictures I want to post up, not till I have a confirmed fix. How happy would you be if it didn't fix it? Lets not jump the gun on this just yet and give me my 6 months to make sure its working. If it does and I get it done sooner then that, your welcome. If not and it takes a year.... you should all be use to that by now.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by MazdaMan13 yea wth i think everyone should know wat you know ptp

I will offer that up, I will post up my paypal and when I have enough money in there to release it I will.

I don't see Haltec offering this site to you guys for free, I don't seen CPE offering any of there stuff or hard work for free. Why is it expected that I offer it for free.

If Jon or Randy want to call me, I will be more then willing to share with them what I have for knowledge and what we have done so far. I will not allow another vendor to get there hands on it till I have it confirmed and protected. This could very well make the MS3/6 motor 100% dependable, and I should just "give it away". Yea right.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by dadasracecar I agree with you here and think your explanation is the most probable. Where though are jcemgt2003's results or skylinemonsters. I would think that as a sponsor of this forum and a vendor of built motors you would be all over the place posting the results from your builds. This isn't just directed at you. I wondered aloud about mrlilguy and read with great interest chriscecc's issues. Where are the guys with the built motors? What are the problems they are having. Are they being timed wrong. Are the proper bearings being used in the rotating assembly? Why the issues with cams, etc? It irks me that guys talk big game about getting built and then disappear leaving us all to wonder and essentially break new ground every time someone tries to build their motor.

I am trying, trust me. I made some posts online a good time ago about the cyl pressures and the injectors. I got flammed. I have yet again made a post on what we feel is a potential fix, again getting flammed. We are trying to make the parts for "your" cars so you don't have to rebuild them every year. This takes R&D, this takes time. Hell I have been sitting in pump upgrades for 4 weeks now... waiting for the locks and all that just so we can turn around and change them again so I don't have to have the retainers and locks on them anymore. We try to improve upon the parts that we have tested to make 100% sure they are "good".

I am trying to break that ground that will keep everyone happy for a long time.

[cbspeed3]

what problem is ptp working on a fix for?blown motors?

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by cbspeed3 what problem is ptp working on a fix for?blown motors?

Yes the blown motors and possible reason we have been seeing forged pistons coming apart. I have seen 1 stock piston with forged rods and one forged piston with forged rods break. The rod only broke the second time around but none the less it broke. We now have a process inside the head that seems to have fixed this.

What we were seeing, themal fractures across the heads of the piston and we even had one piston "stick" to the cyl wall (part of the piston). The DI is not cooling the "whole" (whole being the key word here) head of the piston and hot spots are starting to show up. DI has a much greater swing temp wise then conventional injection. The the parts as a whole can not bee cooled you run into temp flux that causes material failure. This is what we have seen and I think we have fixed it now, pretty much I am sure we have fixed it. I have to pull the head off one more car to verify and then I will be posting the work we offer to fix this. I will applogize for the jumping of the gun but I would have though people would have welcomed a potential fix for this, I guess not.

[mrlilguy157]

My stress level is through the roof ecause of ridiculous posts that lease to nothing, until people beg for answers. Shitty, but productive marketing, although it does make people talk about PTP, it's 90% negative. LOL

Ps - this forum is absolutely free to all users... Donations are accepted though... No membership fees.

[phailerider]

If it matters... i dont hink youre out of line with how youre handling this jon. the problem is that alot of guys have lost trust in you becasue of timetables that have never been close. your theories are interesting however, and if this is what you say it is....

then i dont blame you for the cloak and dagger stuff. this is how you supposedly make your living... and guys in this community are used to waiting in general. so... good luck.

i just built my motor and had my first dyno session this evening... im interested to hear what it is youve disvcovered.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by palerider If it matters... i dont hink youre out of line with how youre handling this jon. the problem is that alot of guys have lost trust in you becasue of timetables that have never been close. your theories are interesting however, and if this is what you say it is.... then i dont blame you for the cloak and dagger stuff. this is how you supposedly make your living... and guys in this community are used to waiting in general. so... good luck. i just built my motor and had my first dyno session this evening... im interested to hear what it is youve disvcovered.

Thanks and I understand where everyone is coming from. Call me and we can discuss it.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by mrlilguy157 My stress level is through the roof ecause of ridiculous posts that lease to nothing, until people beg for answers. Shitty, but productive marketing, although it does make people talk about PTP, it's 90% negative. LOL Ps - this forum is absolutely free to all users... Donations are accepted though... No membership fees.

Not what I was getting at but you are all welcome to your opinions of me, its just the internet .

[Grim]

Originally Posted by ptperformance $7700 worth of junk motors it what it cost me. Send me the $7700 and I will let you know what the fix is. I also want to confirm 100% that it fixes the problem. 2 people are running the new machined parts right now and we will be running one personally here in the next few months. Am I here to help myself? Well if you consider that I make parts for cars and expect to get paid for what I offer then... I guess so. I am here to bennifit from my work, just as you will when we post the results. Now its not going to cost you a bunch of money to get it done, but it will be labor intensive to get it done (tear down the motor).

Then GTFO this forum if your not going to help others.

[LBV]

Man, why is everyone down this guy's throat for trying to help out! Who cares if he only threw us a bone - no one else would have, they would have just kept quiet and said nothing until the release date of whatever it was. Would that have been better?

Your only mistake PTP was being too eager to let the community know of a potential solution to the problem - learn from that.

Oh, and trust no one ... keep what you know to yourself.

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by LBV Man, why is everyone down this guy's throat for trying to help out! Who cares if he only threw us a bone - no one else would have, they would have just kept quiet and said nothing until the release date of whatever it was. Would that have been better? Your only mistake PTP was being too eager to let the community know of a potential solution to the problem - learn from that. Oh, and trust no one ... keep what you know to yourself.

Well honestly he has a solution to pistons cracking and as far as I know he's the only one killing stock pistons and the other two known ones were aftermarket arias ones. When he figures out why the car is throwing rods then he can come back and let us know.....

[Lymerock]

some people really need to check their ego's at the door, and I dont mean PTP
ptp timetables have been fucked up left and right, thats a universal truth, but the people who call bullshit all the time arent doing shit to help lately either.
crying about this, making suck my ego posts, running special parts and not reporting wtf they do, building your car and not telling us the truth about how fucked up it is and then there are some that havent done jack shit except grab a dyno number, so to all yall
stfu

just sick and tired of people shitting on vendors like they are owed something
CP-E, COBB, PTP, PG, the list goes on... all have a common goal, to make shit for this car and make it better, so if ya dont like how they go about it thats fine but do everyone a favor and save the comments that lead to even less progress