WTF is with the attitude of everyone on this website? I just joined the other day and have been harassed non stop! ive been building fast turbo cars for 16 years and im a master mechanic, i can tell that most of your are new to the "going fast game" and that u just listen to each others bullshit and make fun of people trying to find answers, when in fact most of you haven't got a clue with this shit. I will try this new reverse EGR delete idea i thought of and if it works i wont tell any of u ass holes because im not like u, geeeewizzz IM OUT!!!

I think you may be confused with the PCV valve... EGR connects to the intake manifold via a small steel pipe. The reason for deleting the EGR is because its a one-way street dumping sooty exhaust from the head -> into the Intake Manifold. The EGR delete essentially blocks those gasses from flowing back into the intake manifold, if you don't put a block off plate and remove the pipe you basically have an open hole in your head that will channel that exhaust into your engine bay... I guess if you were hardcore you could connect something from the head and pipe it into the exhaust which would prevent any low flow issues but I don't know how the ECU would take that.

I dont think your using enough question marks???????? And for "master mechanic" you dont know shit. If by "circulate fresh air back into our engine!!!" you mean create a giant vacuum/boost leak by all means go right ahead

the egr closes when you hit boost dumb ass! so no boost leak. at warm up, idle, and engine decell it will open, and that's fucking vacuum!!! so if the exhaust side of the egr valve was open with just a breather, it would only allow clean cool air in when your decelerating or at idle. BTW dont talk shit to anyone if your an idiot that thinks he knows it all because u read forums all day long, go get some real experience, get your hands dirty and actually learn how a fucking motor works!!!!!!! :fuckyou:

Who said it does that? Doesn't do that at all, as far as I know.

sorry for the confusing question , i was strictly talking about if you start your car cold and let it sit and warm up without driving it does the egr close after the car reaches a certain temp?, thats a better version of the question i was asking earlier.

No, it does not.

HMMMMM... if the egr does not close when your intake manifold has boost in it wouldn't that be a huge boost leak?, you would be adding 17-20psi into your exhaust system, thats why im pretty sure that on turbo charged cars the ecu tells the egr to close during boost and then opens again during deceleration, idle and stuff. Am i right or is there something im not aware of? please inform and thanks for all your responses

I got a better idea, let's just delete the shortblock and let the head recir fresh air, that way we'll keep all the carbon out of the exhaust. We can put a breather on the A/C to filter that air and add an oil catch can to the spark plug wires to prevent power surges. Just make sure you use the baffled kind or the those pesky surges will slip right past.

Now that will make some serious powa........lol

did i miss something or is there a reason everyone is busting this guys balls everytime he posts something? I know why everyone does it to TXspeed but i guess i missed the reasoning behind this assault. He seems pretty knowledgable to me about these types of things maybe we should try listening since our pcv and egr systems are so fucked and new ideas on how to fix stuff have to come from somewhere dont they?

LOL:wizard:

You asked about temp, if the EGR closed after it got to a certain temp. No, it doesn't Now you are asking a totally different question, does it close at boost. I think it does. But if your RPM is below the spooling RPM, then you are running in vacuum.

So thats perfect then, if the egr must close during boost to obviously prevent a boost leak, then my idea will work just fine. i will try hooking up my bad ass gynesyss scan tool to my car and watch the activity of the egr valve while in boost to prove whether or not my idea of adding a fresh air breather to the exhaust side of the factory egr system and then just blocking off the exhaust opening will work or not. This way whenever the egr opens only fresh air will enter our engines and we wont have to worry about throwing any codes, like the traditional way people have just been blocking off the egr system on the IM side of the egr causing egr flow codes and manifold pressure codes because the maps detects that the pressure doesn't change when the egr system is just blocked off like the way people have been deleting the egr system. Im pretty sure my way will work just like the factory egr system but slightly modified to add clean fresh air to the intake when the egr opens, plus this modification will be even easier to do! i will run my egr test later tonight and post the results.

I would like to know your results. The first time i saw you mention it I thought you had a good idea. Please dont leave us in the dark if you get the time to do this. Dont forget to plug your exhaust side:scratchchin:

Success!!! its official!! i data streamed and recorded the egr valve and this is what i found. the egr valve is completely variable and computer controled, meaning its not just open or closed, sometimes its only 25% open or 80% ect..., The EGR valve is completely variable depending on the engine load, vacuum, boost ect..... when i data logged the egr it was fully closed at idle ( of course or it would be a vacuum leak) the egr valve only opens during normal driving conditions, cruising at low vacuum, part throttle, deceleration ect, sometimes alot and sometime partially, but as soon as you start to get into boost it instantly closes off, (preventing boost leak) and will open up allittle between shifts and then instantly closes again when you hit the next gear!! So from the data i found out tonight about our factory EGR system it would be stupid to just block it off!! (maybe on an old car you could get away with this) but the ms3's egr system is very smart, this is why people who block off there egrs are having problems with engine lights and warm up's ect... because the ecu is expecting the pressure change when the valve opens and can also throw codes for egr low flow.

So its official i think the best way to modify our egr system is not by blocking or bypassing them but rather leave it alone and allow it to work like factory, the only difference is that u have got to modify the exhaust end of the oem egr valve and just completely remove it from the exhaust, block off the left over hole in the exhaust and then just add a simple breather filter to the pipe that u disconnected from the exhaust, make sure and bend it over or cut the pipe further away from the exhaust so that heat from the exhaust wont melt your breather filter. this modification will allow your computer to think that everything is still working properly with the egr system and will only allow fresh, clean uncontaminated air back inside your engine!!!!and trust me thats a good thing because the egr valve is open around 90% of driving, think how much cleaner your intake air charge will be whooo hoooo:439:

Any proof of this? Like logs or something?

i will try and print the info off my scan tool, its very interesting, i can datastream and record any aspect of the car. give me some time to figure it out

that seems to sound like a good idea...and pretty easy...


if it works then I will try and sell my egr delete "kit" to some doosh:popworm:

Ok here is solid proof of how our egr valves react under different driving conditions and especially under boost. i didnt have a male/male usb cord so i couldn't post the actual data from my scanner but i was able to take a picture and tried to label what was going the best i could, dont laugh LOL

http://i29.tinypic.com/2m2j9q8.jpg


as you can clearly see in this 6 second recording of my egr activity, under idle it fully closes and only when driving normal with no boost does it fluctuate and also between hard gear shifting it will crack open between shifts for split second. with this info its now safe to assume that my new clean air egr modification should work flawless and increase performance!! i will be doing this modification tomorrow hopefully i will try and do a simple write up with some pics too. also whenever i can find the right usb cord and can record and data stream, manifold pressure, egr position, rpms and intake temps before and after the mod to actually see if the fresh air is cooling the intake charge down some as compared to piping hot exhaust fumes. i will keep u informed :dance:

I'll bet you anything you can match that you won't be doing what you say

there is no EGR exhaust tube
the EGR valve is mounted directly to the drivers side of the cylinder head
there is a small cast path in the #4 exhaust port of the head that directs exhaust flow through your cylinder head which then passes through the EGR valve which flows to your intake manifold via the hard metal tube. The path in runner #4 is sealed by the large flat part of the exhaust manifold
the only way to stop the flow prior to the actual EGR valve is to remove the head and weld the path shut which is the ultimate way to go but blocking off the valve has the same end result minus removing the head and welding it

trying to run a breather prior to the EGR valve would equal a full time exhaust leak dip stick
again, unless you weld the path shut

deleting the EGR, deleting the VCTS, deleting vacuum lines, deleting solenoids here and there have never resulted in ANY issues regarding normal start up, idle, or any engine operation other than some may result in a CEL which I'd rather see vs the gunk the EGR dumps into the dirty DISI



looks like it's back to the drawing board

lol

i need to see some more drawings so i can make up my mind on this one...

Why the hell would I want to go through all this extra trouble installing it this way, when it's way easier just to plug the fuckin thing and get the same results. Because you MIGHT not get a CEL? No thanks, B- for trying though.

well,....I agree with you or course...but I have your delete kit..rmember?

what would be the diff if I just plug the head up with the plate you gave me then cut the hard pipe half way down before the egr valve and then install a ghetto auto zone breather?

I mean it all makes sense what you say but instead of welding it shut shouldnt I just use the plate and not the bolt plug?.....his theary sounds good except for the fact that it isnt cummin from the exhaust it comes from the head....

plate up the head with half the "kit" and then try a breather....if there is something wrong with that then I guess I'll just go ahead and do the full delete with the kit you sent me.....

the difference is you will have hot exhaust gas pouring into your engine bay

that actually doesn't make sense to me and his idea is not sound + will not happen w/o full throttle FAIL

the idea here is to eliminate the the recycling of soot ridden exhaust gas back into your intake manifold
simple solution is to block off the flow
that's what I did
the unfortunate result is a CEL but the CEL doesn't mean anything in terms of how the car runs
but I guess for those that don't like x-mas lights on their dash and or need to be CEL free for car inspection / emission testing....then maybe the delete isn't for you
it would be great if ATR could actually remove the CEL
When I was working with cp-e, one of the ECU corrections Lou was going to look at was removing all EGR tables so there would be no CEL/no function
it wasn't a priority because the car runs fine with deleted EGR....so it just never happened "yet"

bro...we all know you know much more then me about any and all of this.....

did you read my entire post??...

like I said..you block off the head with the plate you gave me...and instead of throwing away the hard pipe that goes to your IM you simply cut it half way down the line before the egr valve and put a filter on there....

when you install the plate to block off the soot from the head..all you get is clean air after that..I really dont understand what you dont understand>?

I wish I could draw a picture of what it would look like or whatever but lets just wait and see what this kid does and see if it works...

only time will tell...in the end if his project turns out to be fail then I will use the rest of the egr delete kit you sent me (the IM plug) and get rid of the egr hard pipe..

it really does kinda make sense if you take your time and read it...no harm in trying this first

again..no hot soot from the exhaust cause that side is plugged and when you cut the hard pipe before the valve you put a breather filter on there so when the egr does open it gets nothing but fresh air...sorry for rewriting in the same post...

I don't wanna piss you off and argue about it...it really does kinda make sense ..juss give this kid the time and if it works i'll do the same...

instead of getting a cel (which I dont give a fuck about either) cause of no change in IM pressure you now get no cel (hopefully) and a nice fresh air change in IM pressure and this will hopefully give a lil more breathing area for the car...

i dunno...

I am really surprised no one caught this before now. Well, maybe someone did and I missed it.

Regarding the whole idea of just sticking a breather filter on a trimmed down pipe to let 'fresh cool clean air' in when the EGR is open. Can we say UN-METERED AIR anyone????

So, instead of getting a CEL for low flow on the EGR... you're gonna get a CEL for running lean and completely fuck up the fuel trims.

Unless I am misunderstanding the idea of the breather filter????

You can not get clean air on the input side of the EGR valve. It is fed directly from a port off one cylinder... You would need to weld up the port on the head and then somehow tap a different input for the EGR valve itself--for it to work the way you describe..

no no that makes much sense my friend....see...we all don't think of somethings....

but really....even tho it makes sense....what do you think about the exhaust gasses/hot soot that is coming from the head...is that unmetered air as well....???

all you are doing is replacing shit dirty air with clean air.......if it is metered air or not it really shouldnt make a difference...

i'm pretty sure that it is metered JUST by change in IM pressure.....

sooooo....lol this is a fuckin retarded way of thinking.....

our cars run rich yes...??..I have an HKS BOV venting Atmospheric..this makes me even more rich during shifts yes?.......

the factory design of the egr is to let that nasty ass faggot fuck soot/air back into our IM's and that is prolly makin us even more rich....

ifffff you do this and instead of shit air u get clean air which is metered by IM pressure not the quality of air....wouldnt it help maybe fix us running a little rich and make us run a tad bit leaner....??

maybe it won't make any difference at all..just no cel who the fuck knows...???

in the end..from my understanding the short / long term fuel trims will adjust accordingly to the variable situations.....and if you are smart/er then me and have a tuning device you can just fix this shit yourself...

i need a tuning device..what a broke faggot I am....

anyways..whoosh please read both these posts and then tell me your fully read honest opinion..

it does mean much...!!!

eeerrrrr....maybe i'm a complete fuckin tard i dunno...lol

but isnt it true..the egr valve stays closed untill shifting......does it stay open during idle??...this is another thing I didnt think of...but then again...metered air..what is it being metered by..the exhaust gasses are somehow metered as well....

Well, there goes another great idea...

On one hand, I realize the benefits of the EGR delete are worthwhile, but, I still have yet to get my car inspected, its been out of inspection for months. That, and I prefer not having a CEL so that when the CEL light comes on, I know I have something new to check. My VCTS delete hasn't caused me any CELs as yet.

What vacuum lines and/or solenoids might one want to delete? I have my VCTS solenoid still operating, it just doesn't have anything connected to it. Similar to factory boost control solenoid. Sill operating, just doing nothing. These are things I could remove, but, don't see the point. Are there any that make sense to remove?

Well, if Whoosh and SSInstaller are right, and I'd bet they are, its really a moot point, unless you want to go modding your head just to avoid the CEL. I'd *like* to avoid the CEL, but, I sure the fuck ain't going to mod my head for it.

well....I had no goddang idea the valve was mounted on the head it self.....as i have not yet deleted my egr...

i guess all I wrote is garbage now ..lol

like you said...you would have to go through even more trouble to mod your head to make the egr valve further down the line on the hard pipe....ehhh

i'm done trying to get this kids idea to work..lol

i'm just gonna have my cock suckin car inspected and then delete the entire fuckin egr system...check engine light..whatever...

I can check with a dashhawk any codes I want when I want...if my motor blows then there was shit I coulda done to stop it anyway..another cel from someother BS is just as easily checked...

time to do egr delete, P&P my IM...vtcs delete (i hope) and PTP's IM gasket (already have)

I have the solution:

Stay in boost all the time...problem solved. Ive tested it out and it works!

Where to start...

Let's start with "fuckin' retarded way of thinking." Equating the "air" that comes in via the intake tract with the "air" coming from the exhuast/EGR path would imply a lack of understanding of the chemical processes in combustion. Assuming a relatively complete burn (and from a simplistic viewpoint), all the oxygen present in the combustion chamber has been 'mixed' with a hydrocarbons, 'burned' and converted to CO2 and H2O (and other combustion byproducts.

As such, ingesting this "air" from the exhaust stream does not introduce any additional OXYGEN into the flow which means no additional FUEL is needed. As such, the MAF correctly meters the amount of OXYGEN that is entering the cylinder. Displacing "clean air" that contains oxygen with "dirty air" that doesn't will not affect the fuel to air ratio and thus it isn't really "unmetered air."

Regarding fuel trims. Yes, the ECU is capable of adjusting to slight variations in the way the air is metered. However, I would imagine in a high vacuum situation (light cruise) where the EGR would be open, the engine would ingest a rather large amount of unmetered air. That's speculation on my part. Further, I would speculate that it would be difficult if not impossible to "tune" around such a situation. We can adjust the MAF curve with ATR but this simply equates the MAF voltage with a grams/second reading of much air is flowing past the MAF. Said function however can't adjust the flow rate based on other parameters, as I understand it. I would imagine such a situation would require a change to the actual ECU logic and not just the look up tables. The ECU would have to merge a MAF reading with an assumption about the flow coming from an open breather filter and/or the MAP reading.

Simple solution if this is such a huge deal, instead of using a breather filter, would be to connect to the intake tract pre-turbo. This would provide a location to pull metered/filtered air. But then, if the ECU is so senstive to IM pressure changes when adjusting the EGR, who knows if said setup would provide the same pressure changes and still prevent a CEL.

How's that for "fuckin' retarded way of thinking[?]"

Sheesh.

Can someone post up a diagram of how our EGR system is setup. I would like to study this further but need to see exactly how its setup stock.

A little off topic, but you would someone delete VCTS?
On the Subarus, a setting of 0 means 0 degrees of advance. On start up and similar conditions, the ECU requests this for emissions. The ECU can command up to 40 degrees of advance. Does the Mazda 2.3 DI work the same?

You seem to have made a good case for not doing this, but, given that I don't think anyone is going to mod their head to try it even if it could work, it seems like this whole discussion is moot, a dead end.

If the question is, why would you delete the VCTS, it blocks airflow, intentionally. Deleting the VCTS can lower the spooling RPM about 200 RPM.

In theory, the VCTS is supposed to help idleing when cold. I seem to remember reading someone who lives in snow country staying that his car ran bad on cold mornings and regretted doing the VCTS. delete But, at least for me in the south, there is no reason not to pull it. I've never had any codes from it either, but I left the solenoid and everything in tact.

Just one thing to add, I recently have got a CEL EGR flow insufficient, and I have not touched the EGR system yet. Took it to dealer and they have a TSB out there that fixes it. It is possible that the ECU reflash completely removes that CEL code from happening again. How much do the Whoosh EGR deletes go for?

Oh. I thought this was varriable cam timing. Never mind.