EGR delete survey

[Lex]

SpeedSixxx, you'll see a lower spike with higher temperatures.

SilverDeamon, it is expected to see more KR during cruise because now you have more oxygen content that used to be taken up by EGR before which is inert.

Did your fuel trims go up as well after the delete?

[djuosnteisn]

sixxx, i thanked you cause i believe its time to put the rest of your mods on

[Lex]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Damn, These seem quite pricey for what they are. Maybe that's the price for no boost creep and drop in replacement.

It's basically a GT2871 mated to the stock housings. Those turbos run over 1k new as is + you have to fuck around to get them to fit and change some parts.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn sixxx, i thanked you cause i believe its time to put the rest of your mods on

lol, I'm waiting on a new compressor housing for the 35R.

now that the nice weather is here it's time.

[SilverDemon]

Lex, never checked the trims....sorry. I saw no difference in performance, only in lower manifold temps.

[aaronc7]

lol this thread is all over the place

[aaronc7]

I've already talked to Lex about this but these are my observations

I was getting exactly what Lex described in the OP.... if I would drive nice and easy for an extended time and then go WOT, car would kind of stumble, KR, puff of smoke. I could easily repeat this as many times as I wanted to and did to make sure it wasn't a fluke. I even started giving the engine a good rev before going down the 1/4 or go WOT for a few seconds before doing a roll race or something because it made a difference for me.

At this point... I have catch can(s), had seafoamed the car a few times but it still did it. Didn't have this issue early on but as I got more and more miles it seemed to get worse. Once I added meth it seemed to help a little but it would still do it from time to time. I had talked to a few other guys with higher miles like myself and they had seen it before, but none of the guys with lower miles had any idea what I was talking about.

Then... about 55k miles or something if I had to guess, I removed the EGR. Almost instantly I noticed my car didn't do the stumble/KR/smoke thing at WOT initially if I had been driving it easy.. EGR was the only change I did. Now does this puff of smoke, or whatever was going on contribute to blown motors.... I don't know, but I can say with pretty high confidence that the EGR did fix the issue which I discussed and Lex talks about in the OP. For me I think it's awesome because the car is a lot more consistent.

It's possible many of you guys here simply don't have enough miles on your car yet to experience this, or if you did the EGR delete a long time ago... your car never got to that point where it started to do it. But then again I'm sure someone will pop in who has 60k miles and hasn't seen this before, so who knows. All I know is when I read the "issue" Lex described in the OP I instantly could related and wanted to share my experience regarding it.

[djuosnteisn]

The puff of smoke has me a bit puzzled.

If it was legit detonation from a hot crown or slow timing retard... why would there be smoke? I mean maybe there is something to the oil in the intake theory.

Do you see the smoke with your knock Lex?

[aaronc7]

on a side not I wouldn't always see KR with smoke... sometimes just a huge smoke screen.

but either way it was gone after EGR delete

[SilverDemon]

Aaron, did you do any tuning on the car after the delete?

[TRex]

is there just a defect in our EGR system? (like the PCV system?)

as far as cruising knock i personally see it while cruising at around 3k in the first 5 min of driving...i chalk it up to the motor just adjusting timing ...after about 6-7 min it settles down...i will often see KR as high as 5...does this mean i have knock? i dont really think so...someone told me a long time ago that part throttle knock was very unlikely

now about the knock when going WOT i can say that i havent experienced this...my normal drive to and from work involves about 20 min of 60-65 mph with the occasional WOT sessions (when i run into S4's and BMW's acting like assholes) i have never experienced any knock while going knock ever....granted...my car only has 10k miles....so im wondering if there isnt something to this being a higher mileage problem

curious though....what years are people experiencing these problems...all pre 08.5?

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by aaronc7 I've already talked to Lex about this but these are my observations I was getting exactly what Lex described in the OP.... if I would drive nice and easy for an extended time and then go WOT, car would kind of stumble, KR, puff of smoke. I could easily repeat this as many times as I wanted to and did to make sure it wasn't a fluke. I even started giving the engine a good rev before going down the 1/4 or go WOT for a few seconds before doing a roll race or something because it made a difference for me. At this point... I have catch can(s), had seafoamed the car a few times but it still did it. Didn't have this issue early on but as I got more and more miles it seemed to get worse. Once I added meth it seemed to help a little but it would still do it from time to time. I had talked to a few other guys with higher miles like myself and they had seen it before, but none of the guys with lower miles had any idea what I was talking about. Then... about 55k miles or something if I had to guess, I removed the EGR. Almost instantly I noticed my car didn't do the stumble/KR/smoke thing at WOT initially if I had been driving it easy.. EGR was the only change I did. Now does this puff of smoke, or whatever was going on contribute to blown motors.... I don't know, but I can say with pretty high confidence that the EGR did fix the issue which I discussed and Lex talks about in the OP. For me I think it's awesome because the car is a lot more consistent. It's possible many of you guys here simply don't have enough miles on your car yet to experience this, or if you did the EGR delete a long time ago... your car never got to that point where it started to do it. But then again I'm sure someone will pop in who has 60k miles and hasn't seen this before, so who knows. All I know is when I read the "issue" Lex described in the OP I instantly could related and wanted to share my experience regarding it.

My car doesnt do that, I have 93k miles.

[Lex]

Thanks Aaron for the input. I have 16k miles and mine does this. It happened after I installed the TMIC (which is now replaced by the FMIC) and I would get a boost spike above 20psi. Even with meth it did it.

The gas I get here on west coast is pretty shitty as well. I will remove the EGR but will do so by unplugging the valve - so we'll see if this makes a difference.

As for the puff of smoke - have you been behind a speed when they go WOT? There's always a puff of black smoke. If you get KR and the ECU dumps more fuel, you get an even bigger puff of black.

[06Speed6]

Almost every turbo car has a puff of black smoke when going wot, I wouldnt worry about that.

I doubt the ECU dumps more fuel when it sees KR, it likely just pulls timing.

[mike8748]

Just did my PTP IM gasket and EGR delete... Watching for PT/WOT KR increase/decrease

[aaronc7]

Mine still has a puff of smoke, but nothing like it was while I still had the EGR delete. I went from smoke screen to puff of smoke

and no... I didn't change anything in the tune

[ToledoSpeed3]

Originally Posted by aaronc7 Then... about 55k miles or something if I had to guess, I removed the EGR. Almost instantly I noticed my car didn't do the stumble/KR/smoke thing at WOT initially if I had been driving it easy.. EGR was the only change I did. Now does this puff of smoke, or whatever was going on contribute to blown motors.... I don't know, but I can say with pretty high confidence that the EGR did fix the issue which I discussed and Lex talks about in the OP. For me I think it's awesome because the car is a lot more consistent. It's possible many of you guys here simply don't have enough miles on your car yet to experience this, or if you did the EGR delete a long time ago... your car never got to that point where it started to do it. But then again I'm sure someone will pop in who has 60k miles and hasn't seen this before, so who knows. All I know is when I read the "issue" Lex described in the OP I instantly could related and wanted to share my experience regarding it.

How much diameter in your EGR tube had you lost due to carbon build-up at 55k? Was it plugged up pretty good?

[aaronc7]

I think it was pretty clear... I still have the pipe let me check sometime later this weekend

[SpeedSixxx]

at 52k when i took it off i'd say near 1/4 of the diameter of my pipe was filled..

maybe a tiny bit less

[SilverDemon]

Originally Posted by aaronc7 and no... I didn't change anything in the tune

Thanks, So if you did not change anything in the tune, then according to Lex there should be more oxygen in the combustion process, thus inducing more cruising knock. At least this is what Lex is telling me......

[TRex]

i want to pin down this cruising knock....i was under the impression that knock was only really possible at high load/WOT conditions....so is this cruising knock REAL knock or is it just the engine retarding timing in order to get efficiency?

[danesti]

knock is the result of heat and pressure.
the more lean the afr gets, the more prone to knock it is, as a lean mixture is a hotter burn.
the car wants good MPG while cruising, so it leans it out until it knocks to try and find a happy medium.

im not very concerned with the cruising knock any more. i HATE when i get wot or audible knock though. shits not cool.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Almost every turbo car has a puff of black smoke when going wot, I wouldnt worry about that. I doubt the ECU dumps more fuel when it sees KR, it likely just pulls timing.

One of the ECU's strategies to mitigate knock is to cool combustion by adding more fuel. This is why weak pumps always show up at high KR levels.

[djuosnteisn]

Actually leaner mixtures will be a cooler burn. Similar to richer mixtures. You get more of a cooling affect from rich mixtures though, cause the vaporization of the extra fuel pulls additional heat out of the chamber.

Hottest burn ration i think is like 13:1 or something like that, and then temps drop on both sides (rich or lean).

[cjanota]

I'm not sure if this is an issue on our car since people have done EGR delete without problems, but cutting out EGR will increase exhaust manifold pressures and temperatures. If a turbo is sized for an engine running a certain amount of EGR, the turbine can be too restrictive for the increased flow when you cut out the EGR.

[tddvrrn]

Originally Posted by cjanota I'm not sure if this is an issue on our car since people have done EGR delete without problems, but cutting out EGR will increase exhaust manifold pressures and temperatures. If a turbo is sized for an engine running a certain amount of EGR, the turbine can be too restrictive for the increased flow when you cut out the EGR.

hey, fool, this thread is 2 years old. this shit is old news..

thanks anyway.

also, egr is only open at partial throttle. at WOT, it is closed. at WOT, also, is when EM pressures are highest. the EGR has almost nothing to do with reducing EM pressure. indeed, it is the loss of pressure in the exhaust system (from cat deletes) that is believed to play a part in smoking turbos. so, by your line of reasoning, EGR delete will save k04s. yay.

[melbaro]

Originally Posted by cjanota I'm not sure if this is an issue on our car since people have done EGR delete without problems, but cutting out EGR will increase exhaust manifold pressures and temperatures. If a turbo is sized for an engine running a certain amount of EGR, the turbine can be too restrictive for the increased flow when you cut out the EGR.

You bitch! Almost threw a wrench in my install day!!

[Dubcnea]

Hoping not to look like a complete tool here. i read through 95% of this thread (until it got way off topic...which was much of thread) but i never really saw a distinct "yes this is fine, depending on your KR" or "do this and suffer the consequences". i understand it could or will cause more pollution or throw a CEL...but what are the ramifications to the engine? i <3 the environment, but i'd rather not have carbon buildup that will eventually lead to shit performance after x number of miles.

i plan on getting an OCC. is that enough? EGR delete seems quite simple. i'm just more nervous since the car is still new and under 500 miles.

to sound a bit les n00by...i plan on getting the Cobb AP and running some baseline numbers to see exactly what my KR is in certain situations, etc. i just wanted to see some direct input on this actual mod.

[anavrinIV]

Originally Posted by Dubcnea Hoping not to look like a complete tool here. i read through 95% of this thread (until it got way off topic...which was much of thread) but i never really saw a distinct "yes this is fine, depending on your KR" or "do this and suffer the consequences". i understand it could or will cause more pollution or throw a CEL...but what are the ramifications to the engine? i <3 the environment, but i'd rather not have carbon buildup that will eventually lead to shit performance after x number of miles. i plan on getting an OCC. is that enough? EGR delete seems quite simple. i'm just more nervous since the car is still new and under 500 miles. to sound a bit les n00by...i plan on getting the Cobb AP and running some baseline numbers to see exactly what my KR is in certain situations, etc. i just wanted to see some direct input on this actual mod.

it's fine to do. you can turn off the code with the AP later, and your valves won't be as bad as many people's are since you're doing it so early.

[Dubcnea]

i got all the way to the install of the SRI and for some reason this EGR thing seemed like an incredibly daunting task. there is shit all over the top of the TB. is 2012 different than previous years? son of a bitch.

so i bitched out and didn't do it yet. i was having issues with the SRI install so i said fuck it. only 750 miles on car so not too worried about build up quite yet.

am i just a DIY noob?

[tddvrrn]

Originally Posted by Dubcnea i got all the way to the install of the SRI and for some reason this EGR thing seemed like an incredibly daunting task. there is shit all over the top of the TB. is 2012 different than previous years? son of a bitch. so i bitched out and didn't do it yet. i was having issues with the SRI install so i said fuck it. only 750 miles on car so not too worried about build up quite yet. am i just a DIY noob?

yes, you are. sri install is about as easy as it gets, maybe second only to shift knob replacement.

maybe you should buy some legos and practice..

[Dubcnea]

my issue wasn't with the SRI...but the EGR due to all of the equipment on top of the TB.

[NRSpeed]

2 year old threads make me miss Philly. LOL.


A week ago I got EGR Flow CEL. LAWLS, 25k and my EGR valve is already full. Proof that EGR delete is a requirement.

[breakfstincluded]

I was just reading about cool buttons you get when racecar...

Turbo Anti-lag systems - A technical description

But what stuck out to me is what the say at the very end:

Starting in 2002 new anti-lag techniques, such as Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR), are slowly overtaking the method described above as they are kinder on the engine's mechanical parts.

Never knew EGR had functions for faster spool on other applications out there.

I think I'll just assume that if true, this EGR is completely different in function than our EGR.

[Dash08]

Since this is an egr thread regardless of how old I thought I'd share this link for future reference.

New egr delete kit

[Sig_Nasty]

so was there any conclusion? i just bought an egr delete kit a week ago, saw this thread today, and am now skeptical if i want to install it. do not want zzb.