Engine Rattle/Knock
 

Hey guys, sorry in advance for being a noob. So I got 2007 MS3 back in Jan and loved it up until the engine spun a connecting rod bearing idling at a red light a couple months back. Anyways, after dealing with my POS warranty company and getting an engine from a 2006 MS6 converted over(intake manifold swap, motor harness, ect.) I got the car back and noticed a rattle/knock whenever id stomp on it. Under my mechanics recommendation, I then had a new luk clutch and fidanza flywheel put on and the rattle continues. The mechanic hasn't been able to pin point it being that it only does it under full throttle with a load.

Ive been trying to do as much research as I can on here, but I have not been able to find anyone quite with this problem. Forward me the thread if it has been covered. To me(granted I'm new to turbo engines) I think its something with the turbo. From what ive seen, it only does this "rattle" when it is in gear, full throttle, and reaches boost. Faulty actuator maybe?? Weve looked all over for anything loose and have tightened a few things with no results. I thought I would see if anyone here has any advice and any help is much appreciated here guys, its officially been two months now since ive had my car and its got me stressin bad.

Mods: Stock tune(to my knowledge), stock exhaust with cat and resonator delete, upgraded TIP with stock air box with holes drilled in it lol, lowered springs. (PS: I bought it this way, but have plans on upgrading it properly in the future)

Compression check brownie!

Also, get a video at least if you can't do any logging.


annnd what's the mileage?

The mechanic ran a compression test when it was installed and told me it checked out. Im at the warranty companys mercy right now, but ill see if I can get a video soon. itll be tough to get decent sound quality on it( being that ill have to take it out on the road and pretty much hold my phone outside the car to hear it.) The mileage on the swapped engine is about 90,000. This rattle doesn't happen on start up or low rpm's. Its not a vibration being felt through the car, just a metallic loud ticking.

That's a lot of miles on an engine out of an unknown car. The warranty company gave it to you bareback. But mileage alone doesn't necessarily mean that there is something wrong with the engine that said a sound like metallic marbles in the engine could be detonation.

Well I do know that the injectors were all replaced(due to the POS warranty company not telling the mechanic that it came from an MS6 and the wrong motor harness was causing firing issues...) and that the spark plugs do not show any signs of bad detonation. Judging by the spark plugs it may run slightly rich, but to my knowledge the stock ECU settings usually run it a little rich. Much to my surprise, this higher mileage engine does seem to perform well and showed up looking like it was properly cared for by the supplier(everything was plugged off or sealed, and showed no signs of oil leakage or rust).
Sorry that I don't currently have a video or much to go off of other than what I can describe right now. Tough to do when I've only had my car out of the shop for one day in two months. Really I wouldn't exactly describe the sound as marbles in the engine. It sounds basically like something flapping around whenever my car reaches boost. It doesn't really increase much if any in relation to the RPM's. At first I thought possibly an issue with the VVT or detonation, but it seems to me like the noise would increase in speed as the valves hit faster and would do it regardless of the engine being engaged to the tranny. The fact that it only happens under a load and does not seem to match RPM's is what makes me think it may be a problem with the turbo. If there was a problem with the wastegate actuator spring or rod, do you guys think it would be possible for it to be flapping around as it feeds off excess exhaust?
Once again thanks for any help, I know I'm not giving you guys much to go off of and I apologize. To be honest, this aftermarket warranty has become one of my biggest regrets and I wish that it was under my care so that the work would be getting done by someone who cares if I have a vehicle or not.

Well your valves aren't hitting anything if they were you would definitely notice. For me there's really not enough to go on to be able to point you toward the cause of the rattle, because it could be many different things.

A few I can think of at the moment are the engine banging around in the engine bay because the stock rear motor mount is weak, but I wouldn't describe that as a rattle. Another could be your exhaust rattling around if the hangers are bad or missing. A heat shield, under tray or really anything could be loose causing the rattle.

I don't know whether a bad turbo or WG would make whatever sound you are hearing. I would suggest you have the mechanic drive the car or ride along while you replicate the noise and/or search around the forums some more.

Well thanks for the advice, the car has been the mechanics care this whole time and believe me he's taken it out quite a few times. I'll have him look a little further into the heat shield and hangers though, since that should be fairly easy. Just to note, the sound does seem to be coming from the front end/engine bay of the car so it would have to be pretty early in the exhaust system. Also I have been doing a fair amount of forum crawling the past couple of days and I did just find that some WRX's do have a problem with WGA flutter. From what I've seen, some people lose performance and cant maintain boost, while others maintain decent boost and are just annoyed by the sound. I'll be going in tomorrow to look over it with the mechanic and see if we can narrow it down and try to get a video of the problem for you guys.

It's not cheap but a accessport would go a long way toward helping diagnose whether something is wrong with the engine or not. Good luck with the search. Just grab everything and move it around to see if anything is loose.

Preignition?

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Yeah, I know I definitely need the AP. Unfortunately, this whole situation is making funds a little low, what with still paying the car loan, the insurance, and sinking a little money into a friends beater civic to keep it runnin to get me around lol. But I know all the benefits of the AP and being able to really monitor whats going on in the engine would be a godsend at this point. I'm going to pick the car up today and take it to another mechanic to see if they can be of any help. Hopefully get a video with decent sound quality and I'll post whatever in the hell the problem is once we find it... Todays my damn bday and I was hopin to have my car back by now lol...

You need to fill the car with 93 octane fuel. That resolves most engine knock conditions.

lol premium high octane is all I run through it man

Just another update, I'm at work and wont be goin to see until later today, but the mechanic just called and said he went ahead and took it to a mazda dealership... They told him to let them know what the sound is if he finds it because they have no clue lol. So I really don't think its detonation, preignition or really the engine itself at this point.

Is the engine appropriately timed? Possibly a bad VVT actuator, jumped timing, and/or timing chain slap? If you hear the noise immediately on start-up that would be very suspect. Take the oil cap off and press down on the timing chain, if there's alot a slack, that could be the problem.

Just trying to think outside the box here.

Well... this post is officially dead... as is my car. Went ahead and took it from the mechanic because he was getting nothing done. I think I found the rattle and it was a heat shield between I believe the alternator and a piece of plastic that was loose. But this rattle only happened when you got on accelerator hard annnnddd... I topped and then bottomed the hell out of my suspension out on an unfamiliar country road doin about 70 and I hit HARD. Demolished the oil pan, bout gave myself a concussion(I was pretty dazed, screwed up my wrists and bout gave myself whiplash), and did not shut the engine down before she threw a rod. Judging by the inward hole in my oil pan and the divot in the asphalt, I came down on a rock. Oh well, didn't total the car or hurt myself too bad, so back to the drawing board I guess. Got two blown engines to work with now and just need get rebuild done on the low end of the old engine. Guess Ill start a new thread once I get things rollin and keep the build documented. Thanks for the advice though lol.

There's this thing called recce, I think you need to learn how to do it...

Good luck with the re-rebuild.

LOL my bad

Lol, yeah... no doubt man. I guess I'll start tryin to keep an eye out a little more...

But thanks man

By the way guys, for what its worth... I finally found out what that rattle/flutter was. Popped out the engine at a friends and the turbo was half ass mounted to the manifold and the bolts were ridiculously loose. Among a lot of other hose fittings and just plain missing bolts that we found once we dropped the motor out. Cant believe I let that shop work on my car.
On the bright side though, I decided to go with a remanufactured long block from powertrain inc. for now.(Hopefully organize a build on the blown engine in a year or two...) Came in last Friday and got all the accessories swapped off the old engine over the weekend. I decided to go ahead and replace the turbo while im at it with a BNR stage 1 that comes in tomorrow along with new water pump and pilot bearing. Hoping to get it put back in tomorrow night and maybe get it started. Any break in recommendations on the MZR?

Engine is in and started up great. Got a coolant leak coming from a hose under the intake, but other than that just got to top off the tranny fluid, bleed the clutch a little more, and get a clip for my HPFP since that jackass had it zip tied on. And to no surprise discovered my check engine light was taken out... Hopefully get the AP and maybe a couple light mods as soon as finances allow

WOW... A whole new engine and turbo later and personally making sure everything was correctly reinstalled, the mystery rattle lives on. Same damn thing and we've scanned it and it throws no codes of any kind. I changed out the gearbox fluid and it came out clean as can be and I don't think it would be the CV's because it doesn't do it in turns. Its only under acceleration(And no I haven't been taking the new engine to WOT, Im running it through the power band and engine braking, but Im not raping it lol.) Im completely lost as to what it could be... Even took it to another Mazda dealership and they also have no clue. Oh well, guess ill continue breaking her in and see if it gets worse... :ugh2:

Well just for the sake of asking... The rattle that my car is still making ONLY happens under acceleration with boost being applied. I can cruise at 100 mph and it will not make the sound as long as I am maintaining a constant speed. If I pop it down to 5th at a hundred and get rowdy on her, I will hear what sounds like a metal on metal flutter. It has had a new long block and turbo installed with everything including the heat shields bolted down well since it began. I changed my tranny fluid and it came out as clean as could be and kind of wonder if it could be CV axles even though turning has now affect on the sound? Tomorrow I plan on taking off the stock BPV and seeing if it could somehow be the cause, but at this point I'm just grasping at straws. If anyone has any other suggestions, please let me know. I will also try to see if I can get a quality video of it uploaded. I apologize for only being able to describe it so far, Im just desperate and really want to get to the bottom of this because I am beyond frustrated at this point.

I believe my car has some form of rattling during acceleration as well, not super loud. It really just sounds like something is loose, I know my SRI isn't bolted down correctly so I assume its rattling.

Other than that im replacing my Tensioner on the belt to fix another noise (hopefully) or the idler pulley depending on how it feels once I get the belt off.

Sounds like some shit is just loose in your bay and wiggling around, at this rate safe to assume its nothing serious if you have had no issues because of said rattle.

yeah, I thought it was my intake, but I went ahead and bolted her down tight. Ive gone through all kinds of stuff making sure it was bolted down during the swap. Im starting to get worried that its detonation. My new fuel line comes in next week and then Im just gonna buckle down and get myself an AP to atleast do some logs. Right now, I am running with my fuel line zip tied to my stock HPFP... Its dumb, I know, but not much of an option til my new line comes in with the clip I need. Maybe that's where the problem is stemming from?? Im still trying to fix all the things that the mechanic screwed up on my car. After dropping all this cash on the new long block and turbo, I just really want to make sure it lasts...

Alright fellas, been crawling through threads, looking for somebody with similar problems. Think I finally found a thread and it sounds like its most likely my injector seals. Just gonna keep on granny drivin her until I pop em out for a check em on Wednesday. Hopefully, found the problem...

Long thread. Lots of info. You need a new avatar man! Good luck with finding that rattle, they can be a nightmare to track down. Though injector seals rattling??? Sounds odd.

Well, the reason I think its injector seals is from another thread. This is his video and it sounds almost identical to what I'm hearing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuErfYH29ew

According to the post, it ended up being bad injector seals causing detonation. Which would make sense because we did not change the injector seals from the last long block... :doh: So tomorrow night Im gonna get them replaced and fingers are crossed that its the cause

That sounds like exhaust, especially since your loading up the motor. Check motor mounts too, one could be bad and allowing the exhaust to bump uglys.

That does not sound like a pre-detonation. Way too loud.

Just found the thread he posted that in.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...rattle-169301/

Odd. He never clarifies what it actually is though. No update, just guesses and lots of assumptions with no resolution.

Well, the way he is describing it seems like something is hitting something in the engine bay.

Doubt its engine related. I will be 100% surprised if its injector related. First one I've came across. Hell, I'm always up for new things though.

Well, Im 99.9% sure that there isn't a loose heat shield in the engine bay and that both my transmission and RMM were upgraded by the prior owner and show no signs of excessive wear. Ive also looked extensively through the engine bay to find anything loose that could cause this and at this point, Im confident that its not that simple. And yes you are right about that post not being resolved(I just had that video up and it is the same sound), but this is the actual post that made me think it is engine/injector related.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...nation+popping

Also from other research Ive done, detonation is much more likely to be heard from the increased pressure being created from being under load and boost. Anyways, I did go ahead and pop off the intake and everything to look at the injectors(some what a pain in the ass lol) and found that the #1 injector was missing the lower seal and did show signs of detonation. Got some new gaskets and seals coming within the next day or two... So think Ive found the problem guys and Ill update this weekend on the outcome. Regardless, definitely a big problem to be missing the seal.

Also, regardless of the outcome here's an interesting page for anyone wanting to read up on detonation and pre-ignition

Engine Basics: Detonation and Pre-Ignition by Allen W. Cline

Missing a seal! How is that even possible. Crazy. Hope that is all it is and replacing them fixes it. Keep us updated.

Well, got the new seals put in today... and the rattle noise is finnaly over!! Just need this damn mazda dealership to get their shit together and start ordering what I ask for lol. Call for my HPFP gasket and... they get me an o-ring. Have one of the technicians look at the HPFP fuel line I need and tell the parts department for me and... Order me the completely wrong line. Hell, first I tried calling for the HPFP fuel line I need and it took awhile to get them to understand that I wasn't talking about the in tank fuel pump...
:twak:
Oh well, eventually ill get them on track I guess lol

That's totally a shit dealer if they can't figure out what parts you need...

Yeah, Im definitely coming to that realization. Actually, I think Im gonna start goin to the dealership that's an hour across town. Hell first time I tried calling this place, the parts department didn't answer for an hour straight... Shoulda got the hint there, but they are literally like a half mile from my job so I was really trying to go for convenience lol.