Fkin motor blew! (stock '07)

[Speedee3]

Hmmmmm...

Two things:

1. When your engine goes, the quest for "evidence" or common feelings that the engine is inherently a faulty design etc etc...is pretty easy to do. Its like buying a car, then somehow noticing TONS of the same cars on the road.(Not the case with the Speed3 I know) In essence your sensitivity goes wayyyyyyyyyyyy up...you start thinking that the blown motor issue is perhaps more common than it really is. I think the motors in these cars is generally fine, BUT, I think they demand some respect wiith regard to care/maintenance and especially the fuel quality/Octane rating The "pinging" many people hear (that dont know what it is/turn the radio up to drown out) is an absolute killer, that most dont even know shouldnt be happening. (not so much in the performance crowd)

2. Given the description of a "hole in the top of the piston", I cant imagine any design flaw that would cause this!?? This motor has been "pinging" or "knocking" for A WHILE! No other explanation....

I think the OP reaped the misfortune of a previous owners mistakes. I also think the OP "panicked" a bit....(understandable) and that turned into "they better.....etc." I read the first post and thought, "No problem, that will get covered". How quickly?...thats another story...but this one was obvious.

I would also wonder if the previous owner had something else going on with regard to aftermarket parts etc, that he didnt tune for properly.

Piston with a hole in the top....is not Mazdas fault...they will get it fixed, but Im sure they are wondering what the previous owner did/didnt do as well. This wasnt a design flaw from Mazda.

Ken

[Speedee3]

And...whoever the idiot is that said you have "less than 30 miles" to break in the piston rings....and said he likes to break an engine "in hard (properly)????...trade your car in for an Introductory lesson on internal combustion engines!!!

Take an engine apart and look at allllll the bearing surfaces (relatively soft in some cases) and quit focusing on the stupid "rings"....which by the way, need "expansion/contraction" cycles in conjuction with with their up/down motions, to properly seat....especially in todays high expansion/contraction rate aluminum motors.

Where do these guys come from?????????? "Break it in hard"?...= Break it

Ken

[shpankey]

Yeah fuck you too. This opinion is held by a lot more people than just myself. And yours is no better than mine. You reek of superiority complex. Good luck with that. But here's a few articles describing the process and the benefits if you feel like reading any...

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

http://www.ntnoa.org/enginebreakin.htm

http://motorcycles.suite101.com/arti...in_controversy

...and I and many others (including some old timer mechanic's who originally told me) have been doing it this way for decades with exceptional success. Hell, there's another guy in this very thread that said it too. It's not some mystical bullshit I imagined just recently. This is a long debated (and heated) subject. To each their own and chose what you will... but you can stop acting like a prick and keep your insults and I'm smarter than you to yourself. You're not going to "break it" by doing so. lol! And when I said "proper" it wasn't meaning what you thought... it meant doing a hard break in properly (ie not beating on it, but warming it up completely and doing some nice smooth, even, hard pulls that use the entire rpm range but not redlining it).

[Speedee3]

First off, I did not use any profanity towards you..so the "---- you too" makes no sense. You are imagining things.

Not a heated subject at all. I read the moronic crap that you linked here. Piston rings arent the only consideration for "breaking in an engine". The guys that wrote those pieces need to go back to school as well! You basically quote the one guy like hes God. "One shot at it"? Some of these engines will need thousands of miles to seat, settle and establish tolerances...some coatings are so damn hard they wont "seat" (make the best mating between the two materials) for up to a year!

Seems like "piston ring seating" is the only thing thats important!?? I guess all the bearing surfaces dont matter at all!?

Tell you what, you do it your way...but certainly you should not give advice on doing these bullshit break-ins to other people. Otherwise, like you, they might just use the internet as their "Expert".

As for your "old timer" Meachanics, my brother and I have over 60 years between us in experience...he's still in the business busting knuckles. Find me even ONE...old time mechanic..(trained, schooled and experienced with 25 plus years or more of Automotive 4 stroke experience, not motorcycles) who will agree with "your method" over the Factory recommended method...(those mechanical engineers are dumb as rocks huh?)..and I will concede that "your method" is right....ready...go!

Good luck with that! Sometimes superior intellect and experience need not be tempered to save an idiots feelings. I simply dont suffer fools...especially when their "advice" might ruin someone elses car.

Oh yeah, heres a qoute from one of your almighty sources that sums it up pretty well. "I think that they (referring to the really stupidddd engineers and manufacturers) take the cautious route that works over time (1000 miles, or about 20 hours of break in) versus a faster route that can be more easily screwed up." ( I would add most likely screwed up)

Have a nice day....

Ken

[BIGGERDAKINE]

Lets see... who on this forum just traded in their car during the last month? Come on guys be honest... anyways it's never easy dealing with Mazda, but I hope they'll give you a break.

[IshiKage]

Originally Posted by Speedee3 Hmmmmm... Two things: 1. When your engine goes, the quest for "evidence" or common feelings that the engine is inherently a faulty design etc etc...is pretty easy to do. Its like buying a car, then somehow noticing TONS of the same cars on the road.(Not the case with the Speed3 I know) In essence your sensitivity goes wayyyyyyyyyyyy up...you start thinking that the blown motor issue is perhaps more common than it really is. I think the motors in these cars is generally fine, BUT, I think they demand some respect wiith regard to care/maintenance and especially the fuel quality/Octane rating The "pinging" many people hear (that dont know what it is/turn the radio up to drown out) is an absolute killer, that most dont even know shouldnt be happening. (not so much in the performance crowd) 2. Given the description of a "hole in the top of the piston", I cant imagine any design flaw that would cause this!?? This motor has been "pinging" or "knocking" for A WHILE! No other explanation.... I think the OP reaped the misfortune of a previous owners mistakes. I also think the OP "panicked" a bit....(understandable) and that turned into "they better.....etc." I read the first post and thought, "No problem, that will get covered". How quickly?...thats another story...but this one was obvious. I would also wonder if the previous owner had something else going on with regard to aftermarket parts etc, that he didnt tune for properly. Piston with a hole in the top....is not Mazdas fault...they will get it fixed, but Im sure they are wondering what the previous owner did/didnt do as well. This wasnt a design flaw from Mazda. Ken

grreat, so we need to treat this motor like its a rotary. haha. fuck this car, if my shit blows-so be it.

i care for it nicely while beating the shit out of it. she likes it. but ive had enough 'noia with this car. the search for a 335i has begun

Originally Posted by BIGGERDAKINE Lets see... who on this forum just traded in their car during the last month? Come on guys be honest... anyways it's never easy dealing with Mazda, but I hope they'll give you a break.

quite a bit

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by Speedee3 I also think the OP "panicked" a bit....(understandable) and that turned into "they better.....etc."

Perhaps, but I think you would too if you heard the words "Well we're not sure yet if Mazda will warranty it".

Originally Posted by BIGGERDAKINE Lets see... who on this forum just traded in their car during the last month? Come on guys be honest...

The car was a one owner car, bought and resided in Las Vegas, no wrecks, the wheels were put on by my dealer. It was traded and sold at auction several times before it made it to North Park Mazda.

[Speedee3]

Thats why I said (understandable). Been down that road before.

Youll really like the car I think, once they get your new motor in. Bought mine used too, just with alot less miles on it.

Glad they got it figured out.

My Avatar likes your Avatar! Ha!

Ken

[shpankey]

Haha, you don't suffer fools. Your ego is amazing. Well, I can and will do it my way and I certainly don't need your ok to do so and have done so with many others to great success. And I can and will give out whatever advice I choose with or against your demand I not do so. lol! I mean, do people actually obey you in this imaginary world you've created in your head? lollerskates

Anyhow all your posts do is remind me of the GIFT of the internet.



Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by Speedee3 Thats why I said (understandable). Been down that road before.

werd.

Originally Posted by Speedee3 Youll really like the car I think, once they get your new motor in. Bought mine used too, just with alot less miles on it.

yeah, I love the car, that's no doubt It's just going to be one of those high maintenance cars. I want to pick up a MSM too to further my Mazdaspeed collection

Originally Posted by Speedee3 My Avatar likes your Avatar! Ha! Ken

uhh ok.. that's kool... i guess... lol!

Originally Posted by shpankey

hahahaha

[Betelgeuse]

Buying a used car like this with so many miles not knowing if it was modded is a gamble. I'd recommend getting a dashhawk or something similar to monitor the vitals once the replacement is in.
I'm approaching 70k and the engine runs strong as ever. Good luck.

[Speedee3]

Originally Posted by Mazdaspeedgirl yeah, I love the car, that's no doubt It's just going to be one of those high maintenance cars. I want to pick up a MSM too to further my Mazdaspeed collection

First off, this isnt a disagreement, just a perspective.

I think its interesting the different perspectives taken on dependability, "high maintenance" etc as we discuss this stuff. When I was a 16 yr old car nut, there was soooo much maintenance required for ones car if it were to perform at its best...hot rod or not! We did tune-ups (think 2 sets of points, condenser, sandblasting our plugs (cuz we were broke), valve adjustments (oil everywhere)... and if you had solid lifters...forget about it!...at almost the same intervals as most manufacturers recommend oil changes now! Suspension parts wore fast, bearings needed more frequent adjustment, damn brakes auto adjusters would screw up your attempts to get even braking...etc etc.

These "hot rods" we drove, pushing out 300-375 hp ie. from a 350 Chevy small block,(300-375 hp from 5.7 litres) pale in comparison to the all aluminum, horsepower making machines we currently have (263 hp from 2.3 litres). A slightly modded MS3 back when I was growing up, would have been king of the hill in ALL categories of performance!!

I have watched and marvelled at the improvements in brakes, wheels, tires, drive belts, valves, engine block materials, fuel delivery, ECU advances, and suspension, over the years. The expectations people have of these cars, sometimes floors me.

My personal opinion, is that these little pocket rockets are miracles of modern engineering. I am shocked at the performance, creature comforts and price of the MS3. (If it helps you understand my perspective, I had a new 1984 Rabbit GTI when it was being praised and drooled over by every Car Magazine you can think of...in fact check out the review of one from back then..it will have most of you falling on the floor laughing!)

I dont think they are high maintenance at all. I think they DO require that we pay attention to the things we generally ignore in other cars. (Fuel quality/Octane and tire pressure for starters) My weekly routine is pretty simple. (My MS3 is stock) I check tire pressure, oil level, give the motor a good listen with the hood open and closed, (already had two pulley bearings replaced under warranty with 16,000 miles?!...thats unacceptable for sure and is in agreement with the OP's take on "High Maintenance") and check fluids.

Now, there are some things that we are supposed to observe with ALL cars, that I especially do with this car. (or any high performance car/vehicle) I let this car warm up...and I do mean warm up, not watch the temp gauge. I also let this car cool down at the end of a days drive, or after pounding it thru the gears.

High maintenance these days is really just keeping an eye on things that we have been lulled into ignoring over the years, due to a substantial increase in general reliablity. Is my perspective true in all cases? Nope. Is it the only right way to look at things, Nope.

But let me give you an analogy....when I see kids complaining about their newest computer game "lagging" on their computer...I smile the same smile...and think back to the days of playing "online" with 2400 baud modems, Doom, and computers with hard drives with the same amount of storage as the memory card in my point and shoot camera! They are lucky and dont even know it. Its just that they have a different perspective/expectation.

As one gets closer to wringing out maximum performance from a mechanical system...running the ragged edge, reliability and sustainability become more worrysome...its the nature of the beast. There IS a point of diminishing returns in this performance game. Its not an infinite gain game.

My experience tells me that most people (likely not people on this board) with standard cars, literally drive them until something goes wrong. With the exception of oil changes, todays modern cars can easily attain 50,000 miles before they need tires, brakes, tune up, air filters, etc etc. I have seen people angry that their brakes had to be replaced at 58,000 miles, as they thought the cars brakes should last as long as the "100,000 mile tuneup" interval! Preventative maintenance, for the majority of drivers, is long gone. Most dont even check tire pressure for the life of the tires...unless they get a nail in it/have to figure out why its flat!

Those of you modding the car...you get to deal with what everyone that mods for higher performance gets...reliablity concerns! Especially when the methods for extracting the power are still (in my opinion) being learned.

The non-modded cars, keep the car from sucking low octane fuel, warm it up/cool it down, and enjoy a dependable and high performing car.

Geez, thats a long post...sorry folks...I think I got carried away with nostalgia!

Ken

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by Betelgeuse Buying a used car like this with so many miles not knowing if it was modded is a gamble. I'd recommend getting a dashhawk or something similar to monitor the vitals once the replacement is in. I'm approaching 70k and the engine runs strong as ever. Good luck.

I'll look into this Dashhawk. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Speedee3 When I was a 16 yr old car nut, there was soooo much maintenance required for ones car if it were to perform at its best...hot rod or not! We did tune-ups (think 2 sets of points, condenser, sandblasting our plugs (cuz we were broke), valve adjustments (oil everywhere)... and if you had solid lifters...forget about it!...at almost the same intervals as most manufacturers recommend oil changes now! Suspension parts wore fast, bearings needed more frequent adjustment, damn brakes auto adjusters would screw up your attempts to get even braking...etc etc.

Oh yah, I gotcha there. I started out with old classics and hot rods. Some of my cars (stock especially with I-6 motors) would get well over 100K and still run strong as ever. Some of my hot rods were high maintenance by comparison. So I agree with your statement about the new hot rods vs the old.

However, cost of maintaining these new lil pony cars is where the biggest difference lies. I built a 350 for an old camaro and installed it in my back yard for just under 1500$ (complete with chrome accessories and other chit. I *don't* think I could even get close to that low of a figure with an MZR 2.3L. heh My built 1.8L miata motor cost me around $3500 to build. That was a new block, but I pretty much got that for free.

[Speedee3]

Guys, regarding the DashHawks.

I read an obscure post somewhere that talked about a DashHawk intoducing or causing issues with engine management. (ECU) Is this BS? Like to hear from those that have actually had one hooked into their vehicle for a while. it is a passive system for all I have read about it.

It is one of a few items I am looking at for my MS3. Frankly, I will likely use it to monitor boost and AFR almost exclusively, (And maybe not leave it hooked in all the time...as I can get stupid anal abhout "noticing things") just to get a feel for what this electronically dominated motor is doing.

Ken

[FORZDA 1]

Originally Posted by Speedee3 Guys, regarding the DashHawks. I read an obscure post somewhere that talked about a DashHawk intoducing or causing issues with engine management. (ECU) Is this BS? Like to hear from those that have actually had one hooked into their vehicle for a while. it is a passive system for all I have read about it. It is one of a few items I am looking at for my MS3. Frankly, I will likely use it to monitor boost and AFR almost exclusively, (And maybe not leave it hooked in all the time...as I can get stupid anal abhout "noticing things") just to get a feel for what this electronically dominated motor is doing. Ken

I've had a DH for a long time (~2 years) now and it stays plugged in 100% of the time. No problems from the DH from MSD. Not sure where you got that obscure info, but it is bunk.

[Betelgeuse]

Originally Posted by FORZDA 1 I've had a DH for a long time (~2 years) now and it stays plugged in 100% of the time. No problems from the DH from MSD. Not sure where you got that obscure info, but it is bunk.

I'll second this. I've had mine hooked up for at least a year and no issues whatsoever.

[Speedee3]

Cool, thanks!

Ken

[ghazituned]

Originally Posted by Bravnik What I meant by that you little Twat was that my car was having issues thus I got rid of it. Oil leak from the head to be precise and a sinking feeling in my gut that she was going to blow at anytime. I drove in fear of every hill I came across for over 6 months. So I traded her in with 59k on the clock and it feels so damn good to not have to worry anymore. And don't worry about getting rid of me. I was only on to sell my AP. I have been done with this forum for a long time due to proliferation of twats like yourself. There has always been good information here as long as you know how to wade through all the childish garbage this site contains. To the OP, I feel your pain and sorry for your loss but in the end you will be better off with a new motor and a new warranty to go with it (assuming they will give a 12 month warranty on their work).

Is there a chance he lives in San Antonio, and he got rid of his MazdaSpeed3, and she bought it. Seems far fetched but she said 58k and he said 59k...

Just my observation.

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by ghazituned Is there a chance he lives in San Antonio, and he got rid of his MazdaSpeed3, and she bought it. Seems far fetched but she said 58k and he said 59k... Just my observation.

No I don't think so. The car was a one owner car. I have the Carfax. It was originally bought in Las Vegas. The car was sold from auction to one dealer, then my dealer bought it at another auction.

I was nice to the porter at the dealer and took pics of the damage to the block and head, and then got pics of the new motor which is completely assembled and ready to go in!

I will post the pix later...

[ms3077]

Talk about getting lucky!

Buy the car for dirt cheap because it's used with 58k miles

Blows up right before warranty expires

New motor

[Speedee3]

Small community...would be kinda weird (but not far fetched) if it was someones car that posted here etc.

Ken

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by ms3077 Talk about getting lucky! Buy the car for dirt cheap because it's used with 58k miles Blows up right before warranty expires New motor

I am beginning to feel lucky for sure...

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Here are the pics I took of the car/damage:





















It was actually TWO cylinders that had the valves break. o.O

[Lex]

Nice pics. So ummm ... did those valves drop or wtf happened? It seems as though something got banged around in cylinders 1 and 4.

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by Lex It seems as though something got banged around in cylinders 1 and 4.

lolz yes. The valve heads.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Mazdaspeedgirl lolz yes. The valve heads.

I've seen a few blow-ups but haven't seen something like this. Valves sheared on 2 cylinders?? It's really not adding up - so what's missing from this story morning glory?

[mr_mazda329]

Originally Posted by Mazdaspeedgirl Perhaps, but I think you would too if you heard the words "Well we're not sure yet if Mazda will warranty it". The car was a one owner car, bought and resided in Las Vegas,

Hell yea!!! VEGAS!!!! WUUUUU!

Prolly had a bunch of detontaion in it's life cuz it gets mad hot here. We have 100 oct which is what the car needs here, but i wouldnt be suprized if the owner blatantly put 87 in a few times druing the high gas price era. I always use a blend of 91 and 100 during the summers here.

[Speedee3]

Holy crap, that looks worse than I would have thought!? Valve imprints everywhere!

Ken

[Frequentflyer]

Holy shit. Looks like your timing chain snapped, but I can't imagine that's what happened since I've never seen a chain snap before. Belts yes. This is also the first MS3 motor I've seen where the valves imprinted themselves on the tops of the pistons to that extent. There's something different about this blown motor for sure! Doesn't look like any rods exited the side of the block either, which usually happens. Do you know for sure if the timing chain was in one piece when they disassembled?

[mr_mazda329]

Originally Posted by Frequentflyer Holy shit. Looks like your timing chain snapped, but I can't imagine that's what happened since I've never seen a chain snap before. Belts yes. This is also the first MS3 motor I've seen where the valves imprinted themselves on the tops of the pistons to that extent. There's something different about this blown motor for sure! Doesn't look like any rods exited the side of the block either, which usually happens. Do you know for sure if the timing chain was in one piece when they disassembled?

Valves hitting the piston can happen with the timing chain still intact. Look here. Local in Vegas. Post 78

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...00/index2.html

[Lex]

Since 1 and 4 come up together it's likely it jumped timing.

[darth vader]

If it jumped timing then, when the other 2 came up it next bang would likely have trashed them, too. Motors won't stop dead when catastrophe like this happens, usually there's enough momentum to carry it around a few times and fuck everything up.

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by Lex I've seen a few blow-ups but haven't seen something like this. Valves sheared on 2 cylinders?? It's really not adding up - so what's missing from this story morning glory?

Nothing. I'm sure you WANT to blame me, but i was just driving home from work. It was very uneventful: merging onto the highway, about 5k, hesitates, CEL flashing, then *pOOf* dies. *shrugs*

Originally Posted by Frequentflyer Do you know for sure if the timing chain was in one piece when they disassembled?

That I do not know since the block and head were already separated when I got there.

Originally Posted by darth vader If it jumped timing then, when the other 2 came up it next bang would likely have trashed them, too. Motors won't stop dead when catastrophe like this happens, usually there's enough momentum to carry it around a few times and fuck everything up.

That's exactly what I was going to say.

If i have any luck, I'd like to drop by and talk to the tech tomorrow to see if he can give me his take on what happened. I'm not too sure I believe what the Mazda rep said.

[Lex]

^ I don't want to blame you at all. I think the motor had an issue, and I think it's timing related. Piston hit valves, broke them, then they bounced around the combustion chamber for a little while.

[ToledoSpeed3]

Yikes! These pictures should be examples shown in the automotive dictionary under "Interference Engine".

Good luck with the new engine, hope it works out well for you.

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by ToledoSpeed3 Yikes! These pictures should be examples shown in the automotive dictionary under "Interference Engine".

Is the MZR an interference engine?

Originally Posted by ToledoSpeed3 Good luck with the new engine, hope it works out well for you.

Me too...

[darth vader]

Somebody, somewhere, beat the shit out of this car bad and, you are the recipient of that. There is NO WAY this could happen with just the events you describe yourself doing. Somebody else is the demon here, regardless of what the paperwork shows re. "one-owner, certified-used-car" bla bla bla. More than once I've seen this, for example: Dude or dudette can't make the payments, knows the car is going to get repo'd and decides to kill the thing as a revenge act.

Your story is a good object lesson in making sure the car is PROPERLY inspected before delivery. aka compression/leakdown test, etc. etc. Most dealership inspections are cursory and half-assed at best.

Sorry for the trouble you got.

...and yeah, it's an interference engine, most 16 valve 4-bangers need to be.

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by darth vader Somebody, somewhere, beat the shit out of this car bad and, you are the recipient of that. There is NO WAY this could happen with just the events you describe yourself doing. Somebody else is the demon here, regardless of what the paperwork shows

Thank you.

Originally Posted by darth vader ...and yeah, it's an interference engine, most 16 valve 4-bangers need to be.

The BP isn't

[dougefresh_]

Just came across this thread the other day, and haven't read through all of it, but I'm glad you're finally getting a new engine. Try to see if you can sneak some forged pistons and pauter rods in the new engine while they're not looking! You won't being seeing them again....

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by dougefresh_ Just came across this thread the other day, and haven't read through all of it, but I'm glad you're finally getting a new engine. Try to see if you can sneak some forged pistons and pauter rods in the new engine while they're not looking! You won't being seeing them again....

lol... well it's all back together and I picked it up this evening. No matter though... the motor was not a rebuild, so there wasn't a way to have them put forged internals in anyways. It was a complete long block from the factory, with new drive train warranty.

On another note, North Park Mazda did well on this catastrophe. They even fixed my radio to where the media button works again... free! They have my loyalty for sure now.