Fkin motor blew! (stock '07)

[Speedee3]

Wow...good girl!

A happy ending....and a new beginning! Give it a few miles and double check the little stuff.


Ken

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by Speedee3 Wow...good girl! A happy ending....and a new beginning! Give it a few miles and double check the little stuff. Ken

thx!

[kwsmithphoto]

That was quick, I've heard of engine warranties taking more than a month to resolve. Congrats!

They went on to say that an over rev in the car's history caused the damage. The valves were bent.

Did they know that from the ECU, or just assume that based on damage?

Still, it doesn't make sense - if a valve bends you generally know it right away, right?

I missed a shift and had a minor over-rev once (just past redline on the tach before I caught it), but that was a long time ago, and the engine never skipped a beat. Smooth idle, no unusual oil burn.

If some valves floated and got bent by a piston, seems like they should have failed immediately or shortly thereafter, not months or years later. If not, at best, I would think the engine would run pretty raggedly, if it still ran at all, after a valve strike.

FWIW, I still think Lex is right about it being a valve timing failure of some kind. Like the timing chain snapping. From the way you described the failure mode, I'm guessing that's probably what happened. I'm not saying YOU broke the chain, but it was ready to let loose at some point and you just happened to be driving the car when it did.

Anyway, no matter to you of course, and again, congrats on getting it resolved with too much diificulty!

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by kwsmithphoto That was quick, I've heard of engine warranties taking more than a month to resolve. Congrats!

Thanks! I think referencing the other customer who went to the news about his bad experience lit a fire under their ass...

[quote=kwsmithphoto;479846]Did they know that from the ECU, or just assume that based on damage?[/quote\
As far as I know the ECU doesn't datalog anything. I am sure it was assumption.

Originally Posted by kwsmithphoto Still, it doesn't make sense - if a valve bends you generally know it right away, right?

That's exactly what I said.

Originally Posted by kwsmithphoto I missed a shift and had a minor over-rev once (just past redline on the tach before I caught it), but that was a long time ago, and the engine never skipped a beat. Smooth idle, no unusual oil burn.

Ya. I'm positive. There's no reason to redline any motor, especially one you are not familiar with, unless you KNOW it's even beneficial to take it to redline (most motors tq/hp curve drop off far before redline anyways) and that the motor can handle it.

Originally Posted by kwsmithphoto If some valves floated and got bent by a piston, seems like they should have failed immediately or shortly thereafter, not months or years later.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by kwsmithphoto FWIW, I still think Lex is right about it being a valve timing failure of some kind. Like the timing chain snapping. From the way you described the failure mode, I'm guessing that's probably what happened. I'm not saying YOU broke the chain, but it was ready to let loose at some point and you just happened to be driving the car when it did.

I gotcha. I've also been thinking about that as well since the motor didn't even TRY to restart afterward. It turned over, but there was some audible clunking from inside the cylinders which now makes sense.

I am going to the dealer today and will see if I can talk to the tech to get more information about the dissassembly.

[ms3077]

I know I've red-lined plenty of times when power shifting when I had the AP hooked up. Motor runs just fine.

[FORZDA 1]

[QUOTE=Mazdaspeedgirl;480019]......[quote=kwsmithphoto;479846]Did they know that from the ECU, or just assume that based on damage?.............
As far as I know the ECU doesn't datalog anything. I am sure it was assumption....../QUOTE]

Whereas it seems true that the ECU itself doesn't datalog into some hidden file, there IS a "special" file/mode accessed by the dealer's IDS that logs the OEM calibration number that can only be "inserted" by the OEM flash. The way I understand it, when we (re)flash with ANY device it overwrites that number and it can't be recovered unless flashed by the dealer IDS. If the dealer doesn't see one of the OEM numbers in this file, it is valid grounds for drivetrain/emissions warranty denial, if they so choose.

[kwsmithphoto]

Ya. I'm positive. There's no reason to redline any motor, especially one you are not familiar with, unless you KNOW it's even beneficial to take it to redline (most motors tq/hp curve drop off far before redline anyways) and that the motor can handle it.

If you did a heel toe in a heavy braking zone at high speed, expecting to be in 4th gear instead of 2nd, you have an over rev situation that the car can't possibly protect itself from!

On modern road cars, you can usually get away with a bit of that if you're quick and paying attention. You might throw an accessory belt or fucup a timing chain/belt etc., but on a vintage car I'm gonna race this summer, with it's vintage Lotus motor and Hewland crashbox, everything blows, and the cost is $18K! Assuming you don't crash, which just adds to the cost. Like a lot.

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by ms3077 I know I've red-lined plenty of times when power shifting when I had the AP hooked up. Motor runs just fine.

Yep and that's my point. The "reason" they gave me sounds like BS. No matter. I have a new motor/turbo anyways.

Originally Posted by FORZDA 1 Whereas it seems true that the ECU itself doesn't datalog into some hidden file, there IS a "special" file/mode accessed by the dealer's IDS that logs the OEM calibration number that can only be "inserted" by the OEM flash. The way I understand it, when we (re)flash with ANY device it overwrites that number and it can't be recovered unless flashed by the dealer IDS. If the dealer doesn't see one of the OEM numbers in this file, it is valid grounds for drivetrain/emissions warranty denial, if they so choose.

I see. Well, regardless of if it had been or not, I just bought the car and it was stock. *whew* I was preparing the "dogs" for rebuttal if the claim had been denied.

Originally Posted by kwsmithphoto but on a vintage car I'm gonna race this summer, with it's vintage Lotus motor and Hewland crashbox, everything blows, and the cost is $18K! Assuming you don't crash, which just adds to the cost. Like a lot.

And that's why I don't road race. I'm not baller enough.

Originally Posted by kwsmithphoto If you did a heel toe in a heavy braking zone at high speed, expecting to be in 4th gear instead of 2nd, you have an over rev situation that the car can't possibly protect itself from!

lol True. I laugh only because a speed3 would not be my preferred car to race. That's what my MX-5 is for. The speed is my family car, and while it handles decently and is quick, is still an economy car with a turbo slapped on it.

[Lex]

^ You know, the BP loves a turbo as long as you keep things under 250whp

Looking forward to what the service manager has to say

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by Lex ^ You know, the BP loves a turbo as long as you keep things under 250whp Looking forward to what the service manager has to say

oyes I know. all too well. The BP was made for the turbo awd 323 GTXs back in the day. That's why the little boogers can go for 200+k N/A tuned at low output like in the MX-5's case

[Lex]

Having owned several BPs - one of which I fully built - I love the simple little engines. Nowhere near as refined as modern motors but they got the job done and are lots of fun.

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by Lex Having owned several BPs - one of which I fully built - I love the simple little engines. Nowhere near as refined as modern motors but they got the job done and are lots of fun.

It's all I need <3

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by Mazdaspeedgirl lol... well it's all back together and I picked it up this evening. No matter though... the motor was not a rebuild, so there wasn't a way to have them put forged internals in anyways. It was a complete long block from the factory, with new drive train warranty. On another note, North Park Mazda did well on this catastrophe. They even fixed my radio to where the media button works again... free! They have my loyalty for sure now.

Sweet! I'm glad you didn't have to stick your pitchfork in the arse to get things done!! Enjoy the new lease on life there MS/devil girl!!

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by dougefresh_ Sweet! I'm glad you didn't have to stick your pitchfork in the arse to get things done!! Enjoy the new lease on life there MS/devil girl!!

muhahhahahahaaaa

[kwsmithphoto]

lol True. I laugh only because a speed3 would not be my preferred car to race. That's what my MX-5 is for. The speed is my family car, and while it handles decently and is quick, is still an economy car with a turbo slapped on it.

Ouch, kind of. It is NOT economy car! It's a rather nice car for the money (I have an 09 GT, bought new), and with just a few suspension and tire tweaks, it's pretty quick on the track, and a terror in the local canyons. I guess it's economical compared to a new BMW, but by global standards, it's a premium car. The interior compares quite well to my wife's 2010 Mercedes C300 Sport, which cost $15K more.

FWIW, if I could afford a dedicated track car, and all that implies (like a tow vehicle and trailer), my tow queen would not be a Mazdaspeed3, it would be something much different...and probably not a Mazda.

BTW, the Fuelly figure in my sig is currently inflated because I've been driving a lot of unclogged freeways here lately, which is rare for me. My pure city mpg, just keeping up with everything from crossovers to Pious's is pretty awful, often below 15mpg. If I included track time into that, I'd be in the low 10's. Economy car? LOL, if I wanted one of those, I'd have bought a Yaris or a Fit!

[Teethkikr]

Originally Posted by darth vader Somebody, somewhere, beat the shit out of this car bad and, you are the recipient of that. There is NO WAY this could happen with just the events you describe yourself doing. Somebody else is the demon here, regardless of what the paperwork shows re. "one-owner, certified-used-car" bla bla bla. More than once I've seen this, for example: Dude or dudette can't make the payments, knows the car is going to get repo'd and decides to kill the thing as a revenge act. Your story is a good object lesson in making sure the car is PROPERLY inspected before delivery. aka compression/leakdown test, etc. etc. Most dealership inspections are cursory and half-assed at best. Sorry for the trouble you got. ...and yeah, it's an interference engine, most 16 valve 4-bangers need to be.

Really?? How many shops really test compression or do a leak-down test on a used car that isnt showing signs of problems?? I would guess its below 10% nationwide that flate rate shops dont.. MAYBE and this is a BIG maybe an hourly tech with nothing better to do would test it... I just dont seeing this being an inspection issue from the shop. TOTALLY different story if there were signs of this happening but even the OP didnt notice anything.. JMO

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by Mazdaspeedgirl muhahhahahahaaaa

[s-retire]

Originally Posted by Mazdaspeedgirl On another note, North Park Mazda did well on this catastrophe. They even fixed my radio to where the media button works again... free! They have my loyalty for sure now.

Great, I'm very happy for you. That is the way it should be handled. Just as you said it makes for loyal customers.

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by kwsmithphoto Ouch, kind of. It is NOT economy car!

Sarcastic rhetorical overstatement gone awry.

[kwsmithphoto]

That's a beautiful picture of you.

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by kwsmithphoto That's a beautiful picture of you.

where?

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Mazdaspeedgirl where?

I think he means here:

[mattizle14]

this same exact thing has happened to me...but not only did it melt my piston it melted my cyl walls and also melted the o2 sensor to the first bung on the downpipe and melted the spark plugs away and valves...yeaaa...its still in show and mechanic is keeping the bad parts so i can take pictures of them...ill let u all see when i take pics of them next week

[Lex]

Originally Posted by mattizle14 this same exact thing has happened to me...but not only did it melt my piston it melted my cyl walls and also melted the o2 sensor to the first bung on the downpipe and melted the spark plugs away and valves...yeaaa...its still in show and mechanic is keeping the bad parts so i can take pictures of them...ill let u all see when i take pics of them next week

So did one of your injectors fail?

[mattizle14]

yes mine did...cyl 2 aand 3...mazda voided my warranty because i changed my own oil and couldnt provide records...and took it to a mechanic that told them that it wasnt to do with anything with the oil...then they said well u just voided ur warranty again because u just took it to a mechanic thats not mazda authorized

[Lex]

Originally Posted by mattizle14 yes mine did...cyl 2 aand 3...mazda voided my warranty because i changed my own oil and couldnt provide records...and took it to a mechanic that told them that it wasnt to do with anything with the oil...then they said well u just voided ur warranty again because u just took it to a mechanic thats not mazda authorized

Are you building the motor yourself? Any modifications? How did you diagnose the failed injectors?

[mattizle14]

before the engine blew only mods i had were the cai...now yea i am building my motor...everything in my stat will be in my engine including ported heads...and my mechanic which is fam friend can only think from everything he has seen to be that and he took it off to see them fucked

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

I'd get a lawyer and fight the BS about voiding a warranty because you didn't have receipts. fk that.

[wankular]

Originally Posted by mattizle14 yes mine did...cyl 2 aand 3...mazda voided my warranty because i changed my own oil and couldnt provide records...and took it to a mechanic that told them that it wasnt to do with anything with the oil...then they said well u just voided ur warranty again because u just took it to a mechanic thats not mazda authorized

You might be the first dude who's voided his warranty twice.

[kwsmithphoto]

Taking your car to a "not mazda authorized" mechanic absolutely does not void your warranty. That's illegal. There's also no requirement to keep oil change receipts, but if your motor melts and you don't have any, well, that less than an ideal position to be in.

BTW, most shops keep records for a while to cover their own bums (and do their taxes), you might be able to retrieve receipt copies from them.

[jack_hammer]

mazdaspeedgirl - i saw this thread when you first posted it. haven't followed it but i'm glad to hear you got a new engine.

now, what we need you to do is get some more car pics with good looking chicks wearing skimpy clothes in suggestive poses.

[mattizle14]

yeah its the kind of shit im goin through with my dealership...i really dont kno what to do...i got my oil and filters from autozone but they dont keep receipts they only keep warranty receipts...and thats exactly what i thought about taking it to a new mechanic...and they were like if ur transmission ever goes out it wont be warrantied because u r replacing ur engine with a new mechanic not ours...so if you leave the lot we will tag ur vehicle as not having a powertrain warranty anymore

[kwsmithphoto]

Well, just write it off as an expensive lesson, and enjoy the new build! Looks like you'll be pulling some good, reliable power if it's built and tuned right, so don't fester over losing the drivetrain warranty too much.

Meanwhile, if your windshield wipers fail, at least they can't blame that on a lack of oil change receipts.

FWIW, the frequency of engine pops are exactly why I buy my own oil and filters and take it to a pro shop around the corner. I staple the part receipts to the labor receipts, and file it with the rest of the car's paperwork. Intervals are logged by the shop on their receipts as is the VIN# so I can prove they were for my car.

BTW, I'm perfectly capable of doing oil changes myself, but paying a pro shop $20 to do it for me gives me credibility if the motor pops (it's stock). It also saves some wear and tear on my body because I've really gotten sick of crawling under cars to do messy maintenance shit like oil changes. Over it, big time.

[mattizle14]

yeah true...i just got stingy about money and i was like hey if they can do it why not me...and didnt even think about oil change records

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by mattizle14 yeah true...i just got stingy about money and i was like hey if they can do it why not me...and didnt even think about oil change records

I looked at my money, and the parts and my time.
I ALWAYS get a coupon from the dealer usually it is $35, this month I got one for $29.99 SCORE.

By the time I buy a filter, oil, time, and drive to the store twice, once to get the oil and stuff, and the other time to recycle the oil. Plus the keeping of receipts and shit, and the possibility of a fight over warranty later.

I'll pay the $30

Now installing my FSD's and brake pads, that is a whole different kettle of fish. Much cheaper to do it yourself........... unless of course you crash your car into a house in the process. :big laugh:

[kwsmithphoto]

Ya, you saved yourself a lot of money on that last brake job, didn't you. LOL

My situation is a bit different - there's an Autozone not far and a perfectly competent shop just around the corner. I buy the stuff (Platinum synth and PureOne filter), drop it off at the shop, walk home and do something else for a while, then walk back when they call.

I get the coupons too, but the nearest dealer is 20 miles away on one of the most crowded freeways in the country. Plus, I have to make an appt., and even then I'd just be sitting around waiting for it. Not worth the trouble. Besides, they use "x brand" oil, basically whatever they have in their bulk tanks, not the good stuff. With parts and $25 labor it works out to about $75, but $50 of that I'd have to pay for anyway if I did it myself, for the oil and filter. $25 is money well spent to keep me from a half day adventure to the dealer and burning up gas and time on the freeway.

[mattizle14]

yeah me nearest dealership is 80mi...bahahaha...not doin that lol

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

I posted it in the main thread about engines blowing, but this new motor did the same thing. Valve head sheared off in Cyl2. Another engine gone. This happened Wednesday May 12th. The motor had about 3100 miles on it.

[BrianZX10R]

holy shit, you blow engines like i blow loads

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Mazdaspeedgirl I posted it in the main thread about engines blowing, but this new motor did the same thing. Valve head sheared off in Cyl2. Another engine gone. This happened Wednesday May 12th. The motor had about 3100 miles on it.

There's a common denominator here and it's not common amongst all MS3s .... If there was no driver error involved I'd be asking the dealer some hard questions.