Fucking boom...

[LBV]

Originally Posted by glocK23 Can you please explain why ? Serious question too. And btw, I still think the stock tune is the safest way.

Originally Posted by Haltech Well, when air temp drops, timing increases, to lean the car out. The computer does this to compensate for pig rich conditions. Unfortunately, if you dont dial down timing and boost, you will blow. Common in the boosted ford world, as probably every other platform as well. Catch can isnt going to save this engine, neither will a BSD. My theory is simple. Long term detonation deteriorates the rods, that low boost, low load, part throttle, is enough for the rod to let go. That little bit of lean condition at the o/c loop transition is enough to launch that rod. Being proactive and controlling knock from the get go, will save your ass, long term. Look at some of the threads here with pictures of bent rods, caught before the engine let go. A large percentage of these bent rods came from weeks of high knock levels. The after thought, was to put meth on the car to stop it, but the damage was already done.

I'm not so sure man ... for knock to bend a rod like that, you'd think you'd still see piston damage. Regardless I still have a knock warning just to be safe.

[langer]

Cold air would require more fuel. Colder air has way more oxygen molecules than hot air. I hope people are dialing up more fuel if they are running bigger turbos.

And how would colder plugs going to lead to detonation?

[Laloosh]

timing does not change by itself. The blow because of leaner af ratios and fuel pumps that cant keep up in the colder months. Colder air is denser air...simply as that. The ecu is a joke

[gtlaw]

Originally Posted by Laloosh timing does not change by itself. The blow because of leaner af ratios and fuel pumps that cant keep up in the colder months. Colder air is denser air...simply as that. The ecu is a joke

not saying your wrong, but the fuel should also be colder, and more dense

[Laloosh]

Originally Posted by gtlaw not saying your wrong, but the fuel should also be colder, and more dense

thats great, log your car when its 80 out, and log it when its 40 out...let me know what you see. My experience, same exact timing, 1-1.5 leaner af ratios

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by gtlaw not saying your wrong, but the fuel should also be colder, and more dense

Fuel does not compress, temperature will have a negligible effect on it's density.

Air however is readily compressible, and temperature will have a large effect on it's density... In the winter you end up with a leaner AFR because of this..

[Race Roots]

Originally Posted by Nitr0EngiE mazda dont go searching forums before they warranty

Actually they do, I have had multiple dealerships call me and ask for info on certain customers. This info I just don't share. I know of one guy in Ohio that got his warranty denied because he was posting about it on the forums about his motor blowing up. (This was for an RX-8)

Everyone that has their mods posted in their signature makes it even easier to prove, also these forums do have Location easily posted but yes...they do look, not always but you never know.

He tried fighting it....it was futile they showed him a print out of his post starting the thread and a list of his mods were in his signature.

My apologies to the OP, that sucks dude.

It is very important to tune for the weather, this should be common knowledge.

[2007speed3]

was the whole spark plug thing just pulled out of someone ass?

[glocK23]

Originally Posted by 2007speed3 was the whole spark plug thing just pulled out of someone ass?

Yeah lol.

But on a factual note, incorrect tire pressure will cause your motor to explode.

[2007speed3]

thanks for the heads up,

just ran out to check my rubber my back right was at 28psi. I was a ticking timebomb and diddnt even know it, because of you Glock my car lives to drive another day.

[Lex]

First step: Take out spark plugs (all 4) and post detailed pictures of what they look like.

Second step: Take off your intake manifold and see how much liquid there is inside. Pour it in a clear cup to verify quantity and what actually is in there.

Third step: Pull off the head and inspect damage on the top of the motor. Any piston top damage? Any other cylinders wet? How is the wear in the cylinder bore.

Fourth step: Pull of your PCV valve and test it. Then pull off your PCV box and inspect for any weird damage

Fifth step: Start carefully tearing the motor down starting with the injectors. If you could get those flow tested it would be ideal.

EDIT: At what PSI did meth start spraying and was it a progressive controller?

[glocK23]

Originally Posted by 2007speed3 thanks for the heads up, just ran out to check my rubber my back right was at 28psi. I was a ticking timebomb and diddnt even know it, because of you Glock my car lives to drive another day.

Don't thank me, thank my keyboard.

[djuosnteisn]

Stock tune targets what, 10.5:1 afr's? Maybe there's a reason behind this, and pushing mid 12's, even with meth, was a bit extreme. Still who the hell knows.

Also afr's will probably drift a lil due to weather, though with a properly calibrated maf it seems like a point to point and half is alot. Not saying it doesn't happen, just saying i'll be damn surprised if it does. Definitely something we all need to keep our eyes on.

Both the closed loop and open loop - part throttle fueling tables in atr are load and rpm dependent. With a drop in temp, and potential increase in load, one would think things would be okay (assuming the tables didn't do anything stupid & fuel pressure is sufficient). I know mine are in mid to low 12's by about 2~3 psi, and my transition from closed to open is at like .5 load.

[Lex]

Flash from the past boys:

engine boom=( w/o a boom sound

Same scenario right down to the guy changing his oil the same day. Same D05 nozzle ... Any relationship here or just coincidence?

[LBV]

In theory leaner AFR or advanced timing by itself does not blow motors. It's the resultant high cylinder temps and then the knock (which remember is just detonation at the WRONG time) that does.

You should be able to, again in theory, lean out and advance as much as you want as long as you're not seeing knock.

But this is new technology so the theory may just not apply ...

Originally Posted by Lex Flash from the past boys: engine boom=( w/o a boom sound Same scenario right down to the guy changing his oil the same day. Same D05 nozzle ... Any relationship here or just coincidence?

The oil level is weird on these cars ... I check it about 6 times over the course of the 2 days after I change my oil just to make sure it's right on the full line and then about once a week after that.

Wonder if the oil level was either too low or too high?

[FreeFlyFreak]

I just thought I would post this here, and in the Meth thread too.
For those talking about too lean, this is from Travis@Cobb:
COBB Forums - View Single Post - AF's very different during single gear pull vs. multi gear pull, how do I tune out?
"On a DISI engine, this process is much more efficient, the fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber where it is able to mix directly with incoming intake air. This process allows us to run much leaner without having to worry about uneven disribution of fuel among oxygen molecules. Also, this has a cooling effect as the gasoline is sprayed directly into the piston face.

A 12.7 AFR is actually about ideal for a DISI engine, 11.1 while ideal for say, a Subaru engine, is running quite rich."

So he is saying 12.7 AFR is ideal.
That prompted a question from me that if 12.7 is ideal why do the cobb maps run much richer?
No answer yet.
My guess, and it is only a guess is, maybe they have found their own car runs best at 12.7, that is where his post is coming from, and they run the OTS maps richer as an extra safety measure.

[Lex]

It's the same misunderstanding shit. Air was mixed with methanol - how does that affect AFRs? How much methanol was injected? How much got to what cylinder? Were the injectors balanced? So many factors.

In the end it comes down to was the damage done prior to this point and it finally let go or something big happened at that point and it let go.

Or was it something completely unrelated like an oil leak after a change? Otherwise just plain blowing a couple of psi of boost in doesn't make sense.

If these motors blew a few psi into boost because something was a major flaw; then why don't we see CX-7s drop like flies? Anyone know how many of those blow going to the grocery store?

[IshiKage]

Originally Posted by Race Roots Actually they do, I have had multiple dealerships call me and ask for info on certain customers. This info I just don't share. I know of one guy in Ohio that got his warranty denied because he was posting about it on the forums about his motor blowing up. (This was for an RX-8) Everyone that has their mods posted in their signature makes it even easier to prove, also these forums do have Location easily posted but yes...they do look, not always but you never know. He tried fighting it....it was futile they showed him a print out of his post starting the thread and a list of his mods were in his signature. My apologies to the OP, that sucks dude. It is very important to tune for the weather, this should be common knowledge.

fuck those SOB's at mazda

[robspeed3]

i think im going to wait and see if ford puts a turbo ecoboost motor in the up coming focus and prob trade this car in for another focus only if ford comes out with a eco boost focus!!

[2007speed3]

Originally Posted by robspeed3 i think im going to wait and see if ford puts a turbo ecoboost motor in the up coming focus and prob trade this car in for another focus only if ford comes out with a eco boost focus!!

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by smakdown61 Isn't the whole point of having a load based ecu to make it more consistant all year around? Even with the colder air, I would think it should adjust boost (lower it) to hit the same load target.

When have you ever seen this car dial down boost, seriously? No, this computer doesnt dial down boost based off temps. Load has nothing to do with ambient temperature.

Originally Posted by wcm250f so if i just left the ecu and boost stock but just had either a sri or cai plus a catback exhaust ( planning on using only mazda accessories if i can for the new ms3) would i be ok during the winter or should i take those parts of.

You would be fine.

Originally Posted by LBV I'm not so sure man ... for knock to bend a rod like that, you'd think you'd still see piston damage. Regardless I still have a knock warning just to be safe.

Depends on the material of the rod.. these arent forged rods.. they are powder forged and can take only so much torque.

Ive never seen rod's bent on an engine in my life, like what ive witnessed happening with the MZR.

Originally Posted by Laloosh timing does not change by itself. The blow because of leaner af ratios and fuel pumps that cant keep up in the colder months. Colder air is denser air...simply as that. The ecu is a joke

Your knowledge of ECU function is a joke... This car DOES add timing in colder weather, hence why the car is running leaner.. it adds timing or yanks fuel based on air density and temp. The fuel pump cant keep up during extreme colder weather because the car is making more power in the colder weather.

Originally Posted by Race Roots Actually they do, I have had multiple dealerships call me and ask for info on certain customers. This info I just don't share. I know of one guy in Ohio that got his warranty denied because he was posting about it on the forums about his motor blowing up. (This was for an RX-8) Everyone that has their mods posted in their signature makes it even easier to prove, also these forums do have Location easily posted but yes...they do look, not always but you never know. He tried fighting it....it was futile they showed him a print out of his post starting the thread and a list of his mods were in his signature. My apologies to the OP, that sucks dude. It is very important to tune for the weather, this should be common knowledge.

That would be awesome if they did that here as they would be in serious violation to my TOS agreement.

[nue]

So is this guy modded or what? Seems like a strange argument to expect a manufacturer to cover for aftermarket mistakes...

[evo2ms3]

Originally Posted by nue So is this guy modded or what? Seems like a strange argument to expect a manufacturer to cover for aftermarket mistakes...

He never said he's trying to get it covered under warranty.

[Decepticon]

dammit...i was gonna get another speed3..

[11cruzito11]

AFCadet,

Did you have the PCV fix from PTP?

Just curious to know,

[jahman]

Originally Posted by Haltech When have you ever seen this car dial down boost, seriously? No, this computer doesnt dial down boost based off temps. Load has nothing to do with ambient temperature.

I've seen it many times on my car. Every winter since I've had the car. When it was on stock tune it would barely pull 14psi. This last winter when temps got sub zero, I was making no more than high 11, low 12 psi on a Cobb v103 OTS map. When temps rebound the boost goes back up.

I'm not sure if its based on ambient temperature alone, or maybe something in relation to the ambient temperature. But its consistent.

I dont know about load, never logged it in cool temps since I never logged it before ATR.

[Arrowpoint]

My post was based on a mistaken observation.

[fjames]

I've got the same values at 4500 in the ones I checked.

That table seems to be changing a lot. I've always used the same base map - I've just been working on the same map since day 1. My original table, then the original ATR modded table, then the newest ATR table are all different. That last is an assumption based on 105 maps since I'm using the first "FFS" ATR, not the latest.

Whatever, it looks like any ATR map will have a smooth table without the big values at 4500.

[AFcadet]

I didnt have the PCV fix or a catch can.

I did have PTPs baffle tray...and their BSD

[Arrowpoint]

Originally Posted by fjames I've got the same values at 4500 in the ones I checked. That table seems to be changing a lot. I've always used the same base map - I've just been working on the same map since day 1. My original table, then the original ATR modded table, then the newest ATR table are all different. That last is an assumption based on 105 maps since I'm using the first "FFS" ATR, not the latest. Whatever, it looks like any ATR map will have a smooth table without the big values at 4500.

I looked again after your post and found a 102 map which had that value and that as you said the table changes on some other 103 maps making my whole theory questionable since I don't know when Cobb originally worked on them so I pulled that post. Thanks for pointing out my bad.

[Laloosh]

Originally Posted by Haltech When have you ever seen this car dial down boost, seriously? No, this computer doesnt dial down boost based off temps. Load has nothing to do with ambient temperature. You would be fine. Depends on the material of the rod.. these arent forged rods.. they are powder forged and can take only so much torque. Ive never seen rod's bent on an engine in my life, like what ive witnessed happening with the MZR. Your knowledge of ECU function is a joke... This car DOES add timing in colder weather, hence why the car is running leaner.. it adds timing or yanks fuel based on air density and temp. The fuel pump cant keep up during extreme colder weather because the car is making more power in the colder weather. That would be awesome if they did that here as they would be in serious violation to my TOS agreement.

Timing was always the same on my car no matter what....as long as it didnt knock, which it didnt. So maybe your understanding of the ecu is fucken joke. The fuel pump doesnt go out in warm weather at 300whp but goes out in cold weather at 260whp....once again, a fucken joke.

[richie b 74]

if you only have 40,000 miles on it why dont you return it to stock and get it covered under powertrain warrantee, doesnt last till 60,000 miles or am i wrong

[SLS MS3]

Originally Posted by Lex So you leaned it to mid 12s where you actually felt you were losing power ... did you monitor KR ... and then it seemed to blow thereafter. Is this too much of a coincidence or is there something missing from the story? How many miles on the car? SLS was also running leaner and recently blew. Not that I'm drawing conclusions. Are you going to tear it down and see what went wrong?

You misunderstand, I was running richer than stock, not leaner. At the point I blew, stock tuning is trying to figure out if you are seriously on the power or not. So it would normally still target 14.7, or at best low 13's. I was in the low 12's at that point.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by SLS MS3 You misunderstand, I was running richer than stock, not leaner. At the point I blew, stock tuning is trying to figure out if you are seriously on the power or not. So it would normally still target 14.7, or at best low 13's. I was in the low 12's at that point.

I meant leaner under WOT ... at least from my understanding you were ususally seeing WOT in the 12s?

[SLS MS3]

At WOT I targeted 11.8 tapering down to 11.6

[Lex]

Originally Posted by SLS MS3 At WOT I targeted 11.8 tapering down to 11.6

Any news from the teardown?

[toprock]

Sorry in advance if I'm beating on a dead horse here...but what were the OP's mods again?

From what I read he had Meth, Colder Plugs, and BSD?

[cld12pk2go]

SLS

When did you have your meth turn on?

I am currently having mine activate at 2.9v on the MAF (pretty much anytime I am in boost above 2500 RPMs).

[SLS MS3]

Originally Posted by Lex Any news from the teardown?

Teardown should start on Tuesday

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go SLS When did you have your meth turn on? I am currently having mine activate at 2.9v on the MAF (pretty much anytime I am in boost above 2500 RPMs).

I never got around to installing my meth kit, it's been sitting in my closet for 2 months or so. At first I was too busy to install it. Then I decided to wait until after the track day I was signed up for this coming Monday. I didn't want to mess with my tune so close to the track day, and I was also worried about running out of meth during the event.

[Lex]

Got your failed parts and I am looking at them. What a strange failure generally speaking. The rod broke cleanly. Your piston seized in the bore of course. At least one of the other rods you sent me was also bent in the engine for a while.