Fucking boom...

[gtlaw]

Originally Posted by SSinstaller Fuel does not compress, temperature will have a negligible effect on it's density. Air however is readily compressible, and temperature will have a large effect on it's density... In the winter you end up with a leaner AFR because of this..

its not compression its thermal contraction which gasoline does to the extreme

[xandrake]

Sorry to bump, but I've been away for quite some time. Sorry to hear this, man.

Hope everything works out.

[AFcadet]

I got a new motor in and its runnin great...got a turboback catless now.

Also...found out reason for the boomy...it was the meth and PTP freeze plug nozzle location. It was only sprayin in cylinders 2 and 3...not 1 and 4. So wheN I leaned out the AFR...cylinder 1 and 4 was even leaner (since the AFR is the AVERAGE of the cylinders) and boomy.

[madvillain]

further reinforcement for the fact that not one of PTP's products will go on my car. it's ignorant, i know. but thats the way it is.

[D-Rick21]

what year is your speed3?

[JRed]

No meth for me. tks

[cld12pk2go]

Meth is awesome. But like anything It has to be done properly.

Sounds like the Freeze plug spray point was just epic fail.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by AFcadet I got a new motor in and its runnin great...got a turboback catless now. Also...found out reason for the boomy...it was the meth and PTP freeze plug nozzle location. It was only sprayin in cylinders 2 and 3...not 1 and 4. So wheN I leaned out the AFR...cylinder 1 and 4 was even leaner (since the AFR is the AVERAGE of the cylinders) and boomy.

Any proof of this? I have to ask, how did you verify that it was only spraying in those 2 cly's and did you get picture of those cly's that supposedly were lean? I will wait before reporting this post to the admin if you can come forward with something other than "its the location" because there are not other locations that would work any better unless you were to go DI. I will be waiting for your reply.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by madvillain further reinforcement for the fact that not one of PTP's products will go on my car. it's ignorant, i know. but thats the way it is.

Making a basis on what parts to put on your car off one post, with no proof to back up the claim? We have sold 100's of these if they were such fail (see post below) then you would have to expect that there would be several other popped motors because of it. Not only that, but the design of the manifold will not allow you to run lean in those cyl's... all the runners are side by side so the WI gets distributed evenly.

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go Meth is awesome. But like anything It has to be done properly. Sounds like the Freeze plug spray point was just epic fail.

Based on one post this part is "fail"? See madvillains post about being ignorant .

[glocK23]

Originally Posted by ptperformance Any proof of this? I have to ask, how did you verify that it was only spraying in those 2 cly's and did you get picture of those cly's that supposedly were lean? I will wait before reporting this post to the admin if you can come forward with something other than "its the location" because there are not other locations that would work any better unless you were to go DI. I will be waiting for your reply. Thanks.

AFCadet, Show this man proof before he goes to your place of home and steal your unborn babies.

Seriously...............

[Lex]

Here are the pictures:

Stock rods needed for testing

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by glocK23 AFCadet, Show this man proof before he goes to your place of home and steal your unborn babies. Seriously...............

I would have no reason to steal his unborn babies, just looking for something other than his explaination of it failing. The other odd thing, out of no where he came up with this being the reason. He has a thread talking about WI and running the car lean, then his motor goes boom (if you read the other thread several told him to not lean the car out with the WI). I would like to see the proof before I start making my own "stories" as to why his motor blew, but could it be possible that it blew because he ran out of fluid in the bottle? How about it bew because the rods are MFG wrong like Lex has stated in another thread? Or better yet, if you look at his first post he was not even WOT when the motor popped, could it be the dreaded bent rod, blown motor hydrolock that I talk about in here: http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...-inside-16710/. We said 6 months ago that Mazda knew about this issue, we knew about connecting rod issues at that time as well... but never put any thought into it due to the pins showing even wear on both sides of it. If it was in fact out WI point, you would see 100's more with blown motors running our WI spray point, that just isn't the case and stating otherwise with no proof to back up your claims is silly.

Originally Posted by Lex Here are the pictures: Stock rods needed for testing

I see 1 and 4, where are 2 and 3? All of them side by side would be a better compairison, but since you have several pistons and rods, I would have to ask how I could trust you to give an accurate account for what was in his motor and what wasn't.

[Fobio]

if it blew on the upstroke, as per 06speed6's observation, and at part-throttle as per OP, I would then wonder what meth has to do with this?

if OP's assertion that it is the freeze plug's location causing lean-out conditions that has cause bent rods, I'd also be interested in some more concerete evidence.

lastly, rod breaking on the upstroke, however, with little fluids as 06speed6 had found doesn't support the hydrolock theory....but I'm interested in knowing more about this tear down.

[Lex]

The rod was bent before it actually broke. This is the missing link that puzzles people. The rods bend and eventually because of very off-axis loading they fatigue and break.

EDIT: PTP, you don't have to trust me. Run that manifold on a bench with airflow through it and then see how the spray pattern is.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Fobio if it blew on the upstroke, as per 06speed6's observation, and at part-throttle as per OP, I would then wonder what meth has to do with this? if OP's assertion that it is the freeze plug's location causing lean-out conditions that has cause bent rods, I'd also be interested in some more concerete evidence. lastly, rod breaking on the upstroke, however, with little fluids as 06speed6 had found doesn't support the hydrolock theory....but I'm interested in knowing more about this tear down.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Lex The rod was bent before it actually broke. This is the missing link that puzzles people. The rods bend and eventually because of very off-axis loading they fatigue and break. EDIT: PTP, you don't have to trust me. Run that manifold on a bench with airflow through it and then see how the spray pattern is.

Umm, we already have and its an even spray pattern out of all the cyl's. Your right I don't have to trust you, but making crazy accusations on the forums with out any proof to back up your claims is on you. How about you run the manifold on a flow bench and see how the spary pattern is , until then you have nothing other than specuation as to why the motor blew. Not only that, but I suspect that you kept the other 2 pistons out of the picture for a reason? I would have to say that the whole truth is not getting told here and you took the easy way out to determine why the motor blew. Where is all the detonation signs from running to lean? I would have to say that would have shown up before the rods let go, but hey, what do I know .

[Lex]

Originally Posted by ptperformance Umm, we already have and its an even spray pattern out of all the cyl's. Your right I don't have to trust you, but making crazy accusations on the forums with out any proof to back up your claims is on you. How about you run the manifold on a flow bench and see how the spary pattern is , until then you have nothing other than specuation as to why the motor blew. Not only that, but I suspect that you kept the other 2 pistons out of the picture for a reason? I would have to say that the whole truth is not getting told here and you took the easy way out to determine why the motor blew. Where is all the detonation signs from running to lean? I would have to say that would have shown up before the rods let go, but hey, what do I know .

Where's that video and data on a flow bench? Is that alongside your 30% better flowing turbo housing that is ground down using a dremel?

Look John, there's nothing sillier in my opinion than a shop or vendor coming in and saying their solution is "the shit" and throwing numbers out left and right while having a video of some manifold hanging with a nozzle spraying through it. I know, you do what you can with the equipment you have, but it's not up to me, the customer to prove your product doesn't work. It's up to you to prove that it does.

I am not attacking you, I just stated my observations, so instead of arguing with me, provide some valid data. I am on the same team as you, I like to see quality products for this platform. BTW, I never accused your system for being at fault for the engine blowing because there are many factors that contribute to that.

[wankular]

mmmmmm......conflict.

[Fobio]

Originally Posted by Lex BTW, I never accused your system for being at fault for the engine blowing because there are many factors that contribute to that.

that is true...and it's not up to Lex to stop the wolves from using his info to attack PTP.

as a regular here, I'd like to think I have a somewhat level headed grasp of the debate. it is unfortunate that PTP was singled out, but I'd say that is the only the case since John is the only active vendor that promotes his OWN products and solutions regularly on MSF. as such, it is understandable that John/PTP has to defend its reputation....this is the man's livelihood.

the work that lex has put in so far has been nothing but selfless and unbiased...and I personally appreciate it very much along with the hard evidence provided by those who went before us.

as such, it'd be a shame if this discussion gets rail-roaded due to personal egos and off-base innuendos by other memebrs who have no interest other than stirring the shit.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Lex Where's that video and data on a flow bench? Is that alongside your 30% better flowing turbo housing that is ground down using a dremel? Look John, there's nothing sillier in my opinion than a shop or vendor coming in and saying their solution is "the shit" and throwing numbers out left and right while having a video of some manifold hanging with a nozzle spraying through it. I know, you do what you can with the equipment you have, but it's not up to me, the customer to prove your product doesn't work. It's up to you to prove that it does. I am not attacking you, I just stated my observations, so instead of arguing with me, provide some valid data. I am on the same team as you, I like to see quality products for this platform. BTW, I never accused your system for being at fault for the engine blowing because there are many factors that contribute to that.

Its in the same location as your data and flow bench testing . My turbo housing thats ground down with a dremel? What, are we going to be a child and drag other products into this debate? What, you don't like be called a liar on the forums because you have even less to back up your claims of our parts? Did I hit a nerve or something, or are you just pissed because I can point out where the obvious was missed by "YOU".

Listen, I have no axe to grind with you but your accusations and claims lately have been full of specualtion at best. Hell, why don't we have pictures of all the pistons side by side? Why are there no signs of detonation on the tops of the pistons, we are only getting 1/2 the story from you and I be damned if I will sit around and let you get away with it. Show the whole story (bare minumum) before you say that a part is good or bad.

I have done the due dilligence with the parts that we sell, we have done the testing, we have done the research. We have sold them, and had many happy customers based on our testing. Its people like yourself that come in here making speculative comments leading members to believe that one of our parts caused a motor to blow with "ZERO" to back it up and only show 1/2 of the story. This is why you have me in here, this is why I am going to point out where you are wrong, and what you have missed. I hate it when I have to do this, just as much when I hate it what only 1/2 the story or even worse only 1/2 of the pictures get posted about a failure. If you don't like it... make sure that your ducks are all in a row before you think you know what your talking about because I am going to challenge it if your missing one.

Originally Posted by Fobio that is true...and it's not up to Lex to stop the wolves from using his info to attack PTP. as a regular here, I'd like to think I have a somewhat level headed grasp of the debate. it is unfortunate that PTP was singled out, but I'd say that is the only the case since John is the only active vendor that promotes his OWN products and solutions regularly on MSF. as such, it is understandable that John/PTP has to defend its reputation....this is the man's livelihood. the work that lex has put in so far has been nothing but selfless and unbiased...and I personally appreciate it very much along with the hard evidence provided by those who went before us. as such, it'd be a shame if this discussion gets rail-roaded due to personal egos and off-base innuendos by other memebrs who have no interest other than stirring the shit.

Your right, its not up to Lex to stop the wolves from attacking our product. I do feel however that he has a responsibility based on the support he has here on the forums to due a "proper" representation of his findings. It only took me a few minutes to point out what I saw flawed in his findings, yet when I did I gets thrown back at me by Lex, and one of the site moderators that will be held nameless.

Thank you for realizing that we are one of the few vendors that support the market.

I will take my ego and shelf it for right now, I think I have stated enough to point out what might have been missed by Lex. If someone wants me to come forward with additional testing, I will be more than welcome to provide that for them in my section. It will cause the price of the part to go up some, but if testing is what the consumer wants, I need to hear about it.

Thanks.

[8.5MS3]

I have to ask why the price of a product would go up if the consumer requests hard data. If the part is properly designed all R&D should have been done before the product was released. It is just a matter of posting it while at the same time protecting your intellectual property.

Not to come off as one sided. But lex is posting up data for all to see. it is up to each person to take it for what it is worth or discredit it. Just because he does not show 2 pistons does not mean he is leaving out half the data. Afcadet's engine was running lean in a cylinder for whatever reason. what does it matter if it was 2? either way its not healthy for the engine.

[AFcadet]

I blew at WOT. I stated in another thread that...Sorry I didnt update this thread. I was going to a dealership trying to get money/warranty for the motor since I "blew at PT"...and they were actually considering it...and I didnt want the rumors of Mazda running around on forums checking to see people trying to get warranties to be true...and possibly fuck myself. Anyways, since then they passed up the warranty info to Mazda USA and they shot it down..so it doesnt matter any more if I tell everyone the truth.

I was not the one that came up with this theory. Lex did. He got my pistons and rods...I took pictures of the block cylinder for him...along with the head and valves...and it confirmed the theory. I also sent my block to 06speed6 and he basicly had the same conclusions as Lex did (piston did not seize in the block etc.)

In addition, my Meth DID NOT run out...and I beleive I was the first to start to experiment with leaning out AFRs with Meth. Everyone I saw was running 11 AFRs...but after realizing I've been loosing power with meth and talking to other car owners that have used meth a lot...I decided to try to lean it out a bit (running meth at the same AFR as gas will make you loose power, you need to lean it out). I got to 12.4 AFR and I got a ton of extra power. However if cylinders 1 and 4 were not being sprayed like we were seeing, the 12.4 would be the average between the cylinders. So 2 and 3 could be at 12 AFR...and 1 and 4 would be near 13 with no meth. Bad. It was cool out, I was NOT overboosting, and Ive ran low 12 AFRs on just gas before with no problems.

So why havn't others had this problem? Once again...I don't know of anyone who was trying to lean out their AFRs with meth. Everyone is running 11s. So even if they have a freeze plug and am seeing mid 11s...the outside 2 cylinders are running high 11s/low 12s. Which is perfectly safe.

Also, when I was ripping the motor apart at my local shop I had a mechanical engineer who works at the shop look at all my bearings...he said they all looked GREAT with no weird wear. 06speed6 confirmed this as well.

The only testing I ever saw from PTP on this freeze plug was when the IM was off the car...thus...it was not pressurized like it would be when your boosting.

Also...its not like PTP has a perfect track record either. Ive seen others try the PT knock fix (or some smoking turbo fix...cant remember) and it DID NOT fix some peoples problems. Along with your screen over MAF sensor fix...psh I don't even know what to say about that.

PTP...don't go threatening me with shit...yes you contribute to the forum...and yes there is some controversy with some of your products. I am not attacking you personally and saying your "stupid" or anything like that. I'm stating observations made by myself and others about your product.

If anything you should be thanking us for possibly uncovering a major problem...instead of bitching at us for "hurting" your ego.

Take it for what its worth PTP. You have came up with QUIET A FEW far fetched "theories", and no one ever reported you to the mods to try to get you in trouble. This is a theory that is backed up by quiet a few people making separate observations. We have the same right to make these claims as you have to make your claims.

[Lex]

John, show your methanol flow data for each cylinder in a manifold with a good 600CFM going through it and that will take my argument apart.

Instead you claim that me not showing all cylinders is taking it apart. Please don't make accusations that I speculate anything unless you have proof otherwise. My proof? That is the CLEANEST piston top of a DI Mazda motor I have ever seen. You haven't addressed this and won't rebut it yet claim you have taken my argument apart?

I don't want to waste my time John, my findings are on the table, where are yours? You selling 100 kits has nothing to do with this.

Don't pick a fight unless you have a good reason to do so.

Once again, I never accused your product of anything more than providing uneven flow. Rebut that. I am not here to sell anything, I am here to inform. I will gladly retract my claims should you provide data.

[06Speed6]

Since I have the block, crank, and mains... Ill chime in.

I am writing this from the view that cyl 4 is closest to the trans and the order is 4, 2, 3, 1.

Cyl 2 and 4 have the least irregular wear due to piston slap, they are about even. Cyl 3has the most. Cyl 1 also has significant piston slap wear and possibly a broken/deformed ring land or ring that contacted the bore on the exhaust side at almost exactly 90* from the pin. Nearly all the piston slap is on the exhaust side of the bore, the only exception is cyl 3 which has a little on the intake side.

There is no heat damage.

No pistons siezed in the bores.

The cyl 1 rod appears to have broken on the upstroke near the top of the stroke, and left the piston in the bore. The rod was then pulled down by the crank, smacked the bottom of the sleave on the intake side of the bore, it then bounced off of the sleave and smacked the intake side of the crankcase, it remained intact and hit the oil pump and probably wedged itself in the crank and did not move anymore.

I know nothing about PTP's meth kit since I dont like meth injection, but I would be inclined to say, in the absince of other parts that could change a/f flow between cylinders, that it was only effective for cyl 2 and 4 since cyl 3 and 1 sustained the most knock type damage and the greatest uneven loading on the pistons.

[Lex]

Out of the 3 rods/pistons I have, one is obviously snapped in half after seemingly being bent for a while. This is #1.

Another one has a bent rod and shows irregular wear on the piston skirt showing it was bent for a little while. The piston top is well carbonized. From the above description I assume this is piston/rod #3.

The last piston/rod is not bent at all. The piston top is very clean compared to the other piston/rod that was slightly bent.

AFCadet, where is the last piston/rod from the engine?

[AFcadet]

I currently have it...the rod is straight...no bends...and it had the cleanest piston head out of all of them. So it was cleaner then the one you had. I could take a pic if you like.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by 8.5MS3 I have to ask why the price of a product would go up if the consumer requests hard data. If the part is properly designed all R&D should have been done before the product was released. It is just a matter of posting it while at the same time protecting your intellectual property. Not to come off as one sided. But lex is posting up data for all to see. it is up to each person to take it for what it is worth or discredit it. Just because he does not show 2 pistons does not mean he is leaving out half the data. Afcadet's engine was running lean in a cylinder for whatever reason. what does it matter if it was 2? either way its not healthy for the engine.

We already have proven it to show that it flows out of the manifold evenly, Lex is the first to ever request that it be flown to 600 CFM (which is foolish, flow through the manifold will not represent what is really happening in the manifold when its boosted).

What data has Lex posted? He has shown 2 pistons and said that they were not getting meth... how is that data? We need to see the other 2 pistons for ourselfs to verify, or don't we? Last, if the motor was running lean.... where are all the signs of detonation? The piston would have destroyed itself long before bending a rod or breaking one, so where are all those signs? Lean will show on the tops of the pistons, those pistons don't look lean to me, nor do they show any signs of the meth system causing the problem. Lex will not admit to that because I highly doubt that he knows what to look for.

Originally Posted by AFcadet I blew at WOT. I stated in another thread that...Sorry I didnt update this thread. I was going to a dealership trying to get money/warranty for the motor since I "blew at PT"...and they were actually considering it...and I didnt want the rumors of Mazda running around on forums checking to see people trying to get warranties to be true...and possibly fuck myself. Anyways, since then they passed up the warranty info to Mazda USA and they shot it down..so it doesnt matter any more if I tell everyone the truth. Convienent that this comes out now... I was not the one that came up with this theory. Lex did. He got my pistons and rods...I took pictures of the block cylinder for him...along with the head and valves...and it confirmed the theory. I also sent my block to 06speed6 and he basicly had the same conclusions as Lex did (piston did not seize in the block etc.) Umm, they never seize, the almost always bend. How about those piston pins, if in fact you were running to lean in those 2 cyl the heat would have shown up in the pins. I would like to see all 4 pins side by side with pictures taken. In addition, my Meth DID NOT run out...and I beleive I was the first to start to experiment with leaning out AFRs with Meth. Everyone I saw was running 11 AFRs...but after realizing I've been loosing power with meth and talking to other car owners that have used meth a lot...I decided to try to lean it out a bit (running meth at the same AFR as gas will make you loose power, you need to lean it out). I got to 12.4 AFR and I got a ton of extra power. However if cylinders 1 and 4 were not being sprayed like we were seeing, the 12.4 would be the average between the cylinders. So 2 and 3 could be at 12 AFR...and 1 and 4 would be near 13 with no meth. Bad. It was cool out, I was NOT overboosting, and Ive ran low 12 AFRs on just gas before with no problems. So you have ran low 12's on gas only before with out any issues, but wait didn't Lex state that this could have happened over time? So do we think that might have played a part in this failure? So easy to speculate that it was the WI point and not look at the other possibilitys? So why havn't others had this problem? Once again...I don't know of anyone who was trying to lean out their AFRs with meth. Everyone is running 11s. So even if they have a freeze plug and am seeing mid 11s...the outside 2 cylinders are running high 11s/low 12s. Which is perfectly safe. I know of several that have leaned out the car with meth, maybe you should be looking around on more forums. Also, when I was ripping the motor apart at my local shop I had a mechanical engineer who works at the shop look at all my bearings...he said they all looked GREAT with no weird wear. 06speed6 confirmed this as well. What do the bearings have to do with this? The only testing I ever saw from PTP on this freeze plug was when the IM was off the car...thus...it was not pressurized like it would be when your boosting. Agreed, and what other testing have you seen from the other companies? Yea, thats what I thought. Also...its not like PTP has a perfect track record either. Ive seen others try the PT knock fix (or some smoking turbo fix...cant remember) and it DID NOT fix some peoples problems. Along with your screen over MAF sensor fix...psh I don't even know what to say about that. Correct, I don't have a perfect track record, but what company does. The knock fix was not designed to fix knock, it was designed to fix the oil burning issues with the turbos. Sold over 300 units before a copy of it was made by a member here on the site and started to sell them on Ebay. The knock counts dropped for many members just not all of them, again... it was not a knock fix but the bye-product was some saw their knock counts go down. The MAF screen, cured a lot of poorly built intakes on the market, we had way more happy with the results and very few that had anything negitive to say about it. If you didn't try it, then you can't say anything about it. PTP...don't go threatening me with shit...yes you contribute to the forum...and yes there is some controversy with some of your products. I am not attacking you personally and saying your "stupid" or anything like that. I'm stating observations made by myself and others about your product. Threaten you with ship, what are you 12? Hmm, your post in my section "blames our part" for blowing your motor, umm so yea that is attacking us considering we got 1/2 the pistons in a picture and nothing to back up the claims as to why the part supposedly blew your motor. If thats not attacking, then I guess the sky really is green. I understand observations, but it goes much deeper than that. But what I can say I will do, I will resovle this issue by getting a manifold flow tested to 600 CFM with fluid dye testing done. This way I can return with the results and show you guys what I find out. If anything you should be thanking us for possibly uncovering a major problem...instead of bitching at us for "hurting" your ego. After I get the manifold flow tested I will be looking for an applogy, instead of your theories as to why your motor blew. Take it for what its worth PTP. You have came up with QUIET A FEW far fetched "theories", and no one ever reported you to the mods to try to get you in trouble. This is a theory that is backed up by quiet a few people making separate observations. We have the same right to make these claims as you have to make your claims. My claims are backed up with testing, field input from customers, further testing, and then we normally have dyno results or track results. With your "theory" we have a picture of 2 pistons with no signs of detonation indicating that it was in fact running lean, the other 2 are missing for one reason or another. I guess if your going to have an opinion or make a claim of something... find more than one example of it and post an accurate account for that examply. You should have had a control (pistons 2 and 3) then your test sample (pistons 1 and 4) to verify your claims. All we have right now... is pure speculation on yours and Lex's part. Until the pictures are posted, you have nothing to verify that there is a problem, but to put future customers or current customers running this part, I will get it flow tested. Should only take me 2 to 4 weeks to get on the flow bench locally to get these results back to you. I will post them up when we have the results.

[madvillain]

as lex said... why aren't you PROVING him wrong john, instead of just arguing with him? this is just going around one big circle..

[Lex]

Originally Posted by AFcadet I currently have it...the rod is straight...no bends...and it had the cleanest piston head out of all of them. So it was cleaner then the one you had. I could take a pic if you like.

Yes, pictures would be great.

As for detonation. The common signs of light detonation are the pitting of the piston top. Everyone looks for this when they look for detonation. However it must be understood that this kind of damage happens under LIGHT detonation over an EXTENDED period of time.

The kind of failures we see tell me that the rotating assembly is quite taxed and if detonation happens - especially severe, it will not last long NOR will it leave the telltale pitting on the piston top. The pressure waves will just bend a rod and then the knock sensor will pull enough timing to stop it. These engines don't knock consistently going up a hill like an old school motor on low octane without a knock sensor does. They detonate for very short periods of time but it is catastrophic when it happens - especially at low RPM.

[8.5MS3]

Originally Posted by ptperformance We already have proven it to show that it flows out of the manifold evenly, Lex is the first to ever request that it be flown to 600 CFM (which is foolish, flow through the manifold will not represent what is really happening in the manifold when its boosted).

Did you even consider testing the manifold with airflow passing thru the runners? and how did you determine that the water flows evenly? What was used to measure the amount of water vapor passing through each runner? Lex has a valid point with regard to passing air under pressure thru the manifold. I dont understand why you are arguing this point....

and his 600 cfm is not unrealistic:

Assuming 100% volumetric efficiency:

Air flow rate = (displacement)(rpm) / strokes * conversion factor

AFR - 140ci * 6700rpm / 2*1728 = ~270cfm without boost

add say 20psi to the mix

BOOST = cfm of turbo / air flow rate of engine)*14.7-14.7

20 = X/270*14.7-1.47 x=~640cfm

so the turbo is pushing 640cfm under ideal conditions through the intake mainfold at redline at 20psi. This obviously doesnt take into acount a ton of factors and is very crude but you get the idea.....

EDIT: I just went through your WI thread and your website and didnt see any technical data. Where can I find this?

[flyrevs2]

Not sure why you guys are bustin PTP's balls, they have been pretty open with their products and have done a lot for this platform, plus John has stated he will get the manifold tested under high flow conditions. PLease stop the attacks and keep this civil.

[smakdown61]

Originally Posted by flyrevs2 Not sure why you guys are bustin PTP's balls, they have been pretty open with their products and have done a lot for this platform, plus John has stated he will get the manifold tested under high flow conditions. PLease stop the attacks and keep this civil.

Its not attacking. Everyone just wants to see proof from both sides.

[AFcadet]

PTP...just leave my thread alone. You can make a thread saying "AFCADET IS A LIAR!" if you want...just don't shit on my thread.

We have our theories and we can let other people judge themselves if they are real or not. But don't come in here combating our theories by just trying to second guess us and tell us, "WELL I HAVE DATA!". Like another person has mentioned...the only test I have ever seen done on the freeze plug is the video of you spraying through a open manifold. Thats it. If you have real data...then post it in your "AFCADET IS A LIAR" thread.

Untill then, go home and let others judge this information how they see fit. I have nothing against your company and actually have purchased multiple products from you (Windage tray, BS Detele, and methanol) so I obviously supported you. So why in the hell would myself and others make shit up about PTP??? Its because we didn't make it up...and the evidence we found points to the freeze plug nozzle as a possible culprit.

And p.s. If you would please post a link to the thread of others leaning out on meth...Id appreciate it. I think your are completely full of shit saying others have too, because I spent a good month searching around looking for answers to our car and what is the best AFR to run with meth, and I found nothing. I made my own thread titled "making power with meth" and it was specifically about leaning it out, and no one chimed in saying they leaned farther then high 11s. It was a multiple page thread and was up for a while...so Im sure if someone with expereince that had leaned out with meth was around...they would have chimed in there.

Heres the last piston/rod. I know for a fact this came out of cylinder 2 because it was the first one to pop out and everyone was like...holy shit that piston is clean for having 40,000 miles.