fuel pump rattle

[bova]

yes the forum was reset to august so we lost all those recent posts

[blackwidow]

Ok , anyway i will post my cam lob picture tomorrow because i will put back in my stock pump with a brand new cam follower so will see if the rattle will be there .

[DaleNixon]

Reposting the cam lobe pic that says it all:



Car was stocked out/traded in on a Mazda 2.

[Sacrilicious]

so i guess it's left a bit of wear on the cam follower. i wonder how that compares with a stock pump...

(sorry, i haven't been following this thread very carefully, so i don't even know what we lost...=/)

[smakdown61]

Originally Posted by DaleNixon Reposting the cam lobe pic that says it all: Car was stocked out/traded in on a Mazda 2.

I haven't looked at this thread in a while but what does that pic conclude?

[Dano]

it concludes the cam follower lobe is worn...see the satin portion in the middle of the lobe??

that=not good.

and sac had a good question ...wonder if a stock pump does the same thing...I doubt it though.

@Dale..which pump did this...PTP?

[Sacrilicious]

well it is metal on metal contact regardless of what kind of internals are used so the stocker has to show wear of some sort.

[dougefresh_]

Looks like mine after the PTP pump shit out:

[Lex]

You can't assume that worn lobe is from the PTP pump unless a stock pump car does not show this wear after the same # miles. I don't think that kind of wear is the reason for the rattle.

blackwidow, waiting on your pics.

Doug how many miles on your car and for how long have you had the PTP pump when that pic was taken?

[blackwidow]

Ok , fuel pump has been removed and the cam is # 1 , new cam follower has been installed and the first one was normal IMO but i put a new one , result same rattle , i have installed my stock valve on the top of the fuel pump but still same rattle , the CP-E spring is #1 , no loose parts , samething with the stock pump so now i really don't know what it could be .

Here my cam lobe picture link , sorry for the poor quality but the cam is # 1 . I have 38000 KM on my car .

cam follower picture by blackwidowms6 - Photobucket

[Lex]

So the stock pump rattles the same?

Also, I can't tell but how is the wear on the cam lobe?

[blackwidow]

The wear on the cam lob is normal no sign of extra wear . Here another picture .
cam # 2 picture by blackwidowms6 - Photobucket

[Lex]

Originally Posted by blackwidow The wear on the cam lob is normal no sign of extra wear . Here another picture . cam # 2 picture by blackwidowms6 - Photobucket

So the stock pump rattles the same?

How many km have you had CPE pump in?

[blackwidow]

CP-E pump has been installed June 2009 . So maybe 8000km . I don't have installed the complete stock pump , just installed the valve on the top of the pump , reason i had some another mecanic jod to do so we were tired , long day on the car for new PCV valve install ( need to remove the intake manifold) and rear frame brace install + adjustment on my rear coilovers (height) , so will install the complete stock pump next time . But the CP-E pump has no loose parts and no sign of wear on the spring . Sorry for my language , i'm french .

[Lex]

I have also tried swapping the valve on top and I also had the same noise. So the next step is to try the entire stock pump. DaleNixon installed the entire stock pump and said he still had the rattle.

Originally Posted by blackwidow CP-E pump has been installed June 2009 . So maybe 8000km . I don't have installed the complete stock pump , just installed the valve on the top of the pump , reason i had some another mecanic jod to do so we were tired , long day on the car for new PCV valve install ( need to remove the intake manifold) and rear frame brace install + adjustment on my rear coilovers (height) , so will install the complete stock pump next time . But the CP-E pump has no loose parts and no sign of wear on the spring . Sorry for my language , i'm french .

[Sacrilicious]

Originally Posted by Lex I have also tried swapping the valve on top and I also had the same noise. So the next step is to try the entire stock pump. DaleNixon installed the entire stock pump and said he still had the rattle.

you still haven't seen any noticeable negative effects from this rattle, right? to clarify, i just noticed that i was getting this rattle recently. i've got a good ~35k miles on the CPE pump, and my pressures are still holding just fine.

[blackwidow]

I will try to put back on the entire stock pump later this week and will see . For now my fuel pressure is good too .

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Sacrilicious well it is metal on metal contact regardless of what kind of internals are used so the stocker has to show wear of some sort.

yes but as with all the cam lobes, it should be polished not galled. if the pump is seizing up that of course will f it up. Otherwise even more pressure from a stronger spring shouldn't make that much of an impact, I wouldn't think anyway.

BTW my pump rattles as well. Complete PTP pump, batch produced at the end of 09 with 10K on it. I ordered it in mid December 09 and didn't get it unitl the week after Christmas. I wonder if all pumps don't rattle at some point even OEM.

Been running the shit out of it ever since.

*knocks on wood*

[Sacrilicious]

Originally Posted by Dano2010 yes but as with all the cam lobes, it should be polished not galled. if the pump is seizing up that of course will f it up. Otherwise even more pressure from a stronger spring shouldn't make that much of an impact, I wouldn't think anyway. BTW my pump rattles as well. Complete PTP pump, batch produced at the end of 09 with 10K on it. I ordered it in mid December 09 and didn't get it unitl the week after Christmas. I wonder if all pumps don't rattle at some point even OEM. Been running the shit out of it ever since. *knocks on wood*

ya, it's starting to make me wonder. i really wish we could get a look at a fully stock pump's cam lobe after like 60k+ miles and see what it all looks like.

[Dano]

haha

trouble is on this forum, everybody has already replaced their CDFP long before then.

maybe we could go over and ask a CX-7 guy with high miles to pull his pump and snap a pic or two.

[DaleNixon]

Sorry folks. I forgot to rehash what my cam lobe picture indicates.

I'm pretty sure the cam lobe got scuffed like that during the break-in procedure of my PTP fuel pump. I had several instances of pump seizure during the first 100 or so miles, and it took a few seconds of driving to "unstick" the pump. It would just stick at 50PSI. Trust me, I was driving the car like an old lady, but I did rev it throughout the rev range like PTP suggested to get the pump fully broken in.

The pump is broken in now and holds pressure fine and never seizes, but I think the break-in procedure is what scuffed my cam lobe. As to whether or not it's causing the rattle, I have no idea. All I know is the rattle stayed even with my stock pump, and it always occurred under the same conditions (engine fully warmed up, tip in throttle, roughly 530 RPM). Or I could make it rattle almost constantly with the A/C turned on at idle.

I stocked the car out and still had rattle. The only thing I could find different about the car was the cam lobe being worn. The cam follower was absolutely fine. I have no clue if this is the actual cause of the rattle. I'm glad you guys are posting pictures of your cam lobes. We should keep this up so we can help conclude what is causing this.

[Lex]

Dale, I would think the pump seized in the compressed position rather than the extended position which would results in something bending or breaking.

[DaleNixon]

I see. What about situations where the idle fuel pressure drops to the mid 300's and SLOWLY climbs back to the usual 410-420 range. I would see this when sitting at lights after it's fully warmed up. From my discussions with other folks running upgraded pumps, I concluded this was normal behavior.

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by Lex You can't assume that worn lobe is from the PTP pump unless a stock pump car does not show this wear after the same # miles. I don't think that kind of wear is the reason for the rattle. blackwidow, waiting on your pics. Doug how many miles on your car and for how long have you had the PTP pump when that pic was taken?

Car was around 30K miles with about 2K on the PTP pump when it shit out under wot and blew up. There was also a nick on the cam folllower, and I replaced that too. Not to mention a new hard fuel line and fuel rail, which finally brought my fuel pressure back. I'm having no issues now, with the new rail + fuel line, and CPE pump. We were thinking that when it seized under wot, metal bits broke off and went into the fuel rail and messed up the relief valve. I was supposed to send Joe my hard fuel line + fuel rail to inspect, but i haven't got around to it. Would be good to know for sure though..

[blackwidow]

Huge update guys in my case , New stock pump has been installed and remeber i have a new Cam follower and my cam lobe is in great shape , the bad news is the rattle is still there so i reinstalled the CP-E pump , rattle still there again , fuel pressure is always good with both pumps , my Mazda tech unplug the boost solenoid and WOW no more rattle , so my problem is my boost solenoid . I will replace it next monday . So guys try your car with the boost solenoid unplugged and let me know .

[DaleNixon]

Wow! Good find!

[Lex]

Originally Posted by blackwidow Huge update guys in my case , New stock pump has been installed and remeber i have a new Cam follower and my cam lobe is in great shape , the bad news is the rattle is still there so i reinstalled the CP-E pump , rattle still there again , fuel pressure is always good with both pumps , my Mazda tech unplug the boost solenoid and WOW no more rattle , so my problem is my boost solenoid . I will replace it next monday . So guys try your car with the boost solenoid unplugged and let me know .

The boost control solenoid? I get the rattle at idle though when I turn the steering wheel. Did you get the rattle at this point?

[blackwidow]

No , i have the rattle only if i put some load on the gas pedal , no rattle at idle .

[Lex]

Originally Posted by blackwidow No , i have the rattle only if i put some load on the gas pedal , no rattle at idle .

Do you get the rattle after each gear change when you get back on the gas and driving normally in town??

[blackwidow]

Oh yes , after each gear change and everytime i press the gas pedal i got rattle for 3-5 second . If i cruise on the high way at 60 and if i want to go to 70 i got rattle for 3-5 second ..... again sorry for my bad language i'm french .

[bova]

my rattle is the same as what lex explains

[Lex]

Will do some testing on my end. I will check WGDC when I just turn the wheels at idle as well.

[Lex]

Just checked - WGDC is zero at all times unless I approach boost.

[djuosnteisn]

weird turn of events lol.

[bova]

have someone turn the wheel and use a screw driver on the pump and put it to your ear to see if its coming from there.

[leo766]

or ya know, use a stethascope like a real man! jk

mine rattles too, pump numba 35
not load related though

r u sure you didnt loose your tension collar changing pumps out, its number two in the pic attached [IMG]ure you didnt loose your tension collar changing pumps out,[/IMG]

[blackwidow]

This is the Cam follower .

[DaleNixon]

That's the cam follower from what I see. No, definitely didn't lose that. The motor wouldn't have run for very long without it. Just ask JumpingJackson.

[djuosnteisn]

I think he's talking about the upper nut where the hard line attaches. The one your not supposed to let spin.





but yeah... it's definitely not #2 in that pic.

[phate]

Just installed KMD internals a couple of hours ago. Stock pump clicked a little bit. KMD internals are definitely louder. The pump holds pressure just fine. 1700+ at WOT, ~420 at idle, cruises anywhere from 900-1300. No pics, but I didn't see any unusual wear on any of the parts.