Help after forged build

[wyeto]

Got finished today with my forged engine install after almost 7 months!

Turned the key after priming and she was idling really rough without any gas and died.

Tried a few more times and eventually started poking the throttle. I could keep her alive if I really tried but I figure something is off so I shouldnt force it.

Eventually the car threw the code P0089, Fuel Pressure Regulator Performance.

I called it a night after this and figured I'd see if anyone had any ideas.

[brandontrek]

How many miles on the rest of the car? Fuel lines in the engine bay all installed correctly?

[wyeto]

65k on the car. They look like they are all hooked up right . no gas leaks or anything.

And its weird its running stupid rich. Can see black smoke coming from tailpipe and it smells like fuel. I'm wondering if it could be old gas. The gas I have is almost 7 months old.

[JSmith]

Whats the fuel pressure reading at?

[rigor]

something to do with your fp regulator, make sure all connections are made to the fuel pump fuel rail ect

[wyeto]

Originally Posted by JSmith Whats the fuel pressure reading at?

Gonna check this on the ap. Its kinda hard to do because I cant keep it running long unless I give it some throttle and I dont wanna hurt anything by trying to force it to stay alive.

Originally Posted by rigor something to do with your fp regulator, make sure all connections are made to the fuel pump fuel rail ect

I will take a look at everything.

One thing that is in the back of my mind is I broke a bolt on one of the ground brackets above the slave.
It wasnt an actual ground bolt it was on of the three bolts on the bracket. I must have cross threaded it because it broke off right at the head.

The other 2 went in fine and it had a good connection to the trans so I figured if the 2/3 bolts holding it down were tight the whole bracket would be grounded. I will have to double check all my connectors and make sure I didnt forget anything.

A picture of this bracket is on page #22 of this link.
http://jamesbaroneracing.com/support...structions.pdf

[speed3freak89]

Make sure if u moved ground wire to new location there is bare metal and no paint qhere u want to groung to. Paint can cause some funky grounding issues. Can u remove broken half of bolt out? If you are getting fuel and its not a grounding issue then look at your HPFP when u turn key to on position whats it read? When it does start immediately hit the datalog button so you can see what its doing under that quick datalog. I had a crazy idle issue when i went bt, i datalogged fuel pressure at idle It was around 430psi on cobb ots map i bumped it up 100psi to 530 it solved all idle issues even took the cel issue i was having. Not saying thats your issue on your CEL or idle problem. try upping your idle fuel pressure to help you get it running longer to get a better datalog to figure out what it could be. You could even adjust the idle table and up the 750 rpm area to make it idle around 800rpm or where you would like so you dont have to use pedal to keep it at a steady idle where u want
wgat

[btstarcher]

It does take awhile to get started after a build; I've done a few now and that's been true each time. Check the ground at the HPFP, and check for vacuum leaks; if you have an OCC make sure all hoses are connected and tight as well.

[wyeto]

Originally Posted by speed3freak89 Make sure if u moved ground wire to new location there is bare metal and no paint qhere u want to groung to. Paint can cause some funky grounding issues. Can u remove broken half of bolt out? If you are getting fuel and its not a grounding issue then look at your HPFP when u turn key to on position whats it read? When it does start immediately hit the datalog button so you can see what its doing under that quick datalog. I had a crazy idle issue when i went bt, i datalogged fuel pressure at idle It was around 430psi on cobb ots map i bumped it up 100psi to 530 it solved all idle issues even took the cel issue i was having. Not saying thats your issue on your CEL or idle problem. try upping your idle fuel pressure to help you get it running longer to get a better datalog to figure out what it could be. You could even adjust the idle table and up the 750 rpm area to make it idle around 800rpm or where you would like so you dont have to use pedal to keep it at a steady idle where u want wgat

I will try and get a datalog today. I am tuning with freektune and he sent me a start up map so I was just running off of what he gave me. I contacted him and am just waiting to hear back.

Originally Posted by btstarcher It does take awhile to get started after a build; I've done a few now and that's been true each time. Check the ground at the HPFP, and check for vacuum leaks; if you have an OCC make sure all hoses are connected and tight as well.

Is it a bad idea to keep poking the throttle to keep it alive?

I know that I accidently took the ground right by the hpfp off cus I thought it was holding that bracket down but I put it back in and tightened her down real good.

[wyeto]

Just did some logging while starting the car and I'm seeing some really weird things.HPFP sensor volt is at .4 but as I turn the car on and look at the hpfp act. Press. Its saying 0 and even after the car gets going stays at 0... HPFP Des pres is at 430 before I start then it climbed way up

[btstarcher]

Check the ground again?

[wyeto]

The one on the lil bracket right by the hpfp?
I checked it this am and tried tightening it some more and it was fully tight. Maybe I'll take it out and clean underneath it...

[speed3freak89]

Check your wiring going to HPFP harness make sure its clipped into the pump all the way. Check your circuit fuse and fuel pump relay fuse. Disconnect battry to reset ecu agin then reflash map see what that does, maby even try uninstalling ap then reinstalling it.

[wyeto]

Originally Posted by speed3freak89 Check your wiring going to HPFP harness make sure its clipped into the pump all the way. Check your circuit fuse and fuel pump relay fuse. Disconnect battry to reset ecu agin then reflash map see what that does, maby even try uninstalling ap then reinstalling it.

Will do. This is kicking me in the ass tried a few things today with no luck and got a data log so we can see if theres anything suspect besides the hpfp.

I know the hpfp was connected all the way because I took it off and put it back on. The only thing I could think of is it wasnt grounded but I took the bracket off and cleaned off where it mounts to the hpfp lobe cover off of the valve cover.

I bought a cpe pump so I wouldnt have to deal with any guess work but at this point that seems to be the only thing malfunctioning.

Its weird to me that the car would still turn over and run even with the hpfp not working.

Took a look at the tail pipe today after this log and it was dumping white smoke, which as I understand is water or coolant. Maybe condensation? Not sure tho cus this was thick stuff.

I had a bunch of different data logs on my app so I think this was the one from today.

[speed3freak89]

White smoke for me was my k04 going up. Oil was blowing by the seal whixh was insanely thin when i went into further inspection of turbo. i could take down pipe off and pour oil out of it. It was thick whit smoke. Im on my phone got to get home to pull up datalog and look at it. It sounds like the tank pump is priming engine but the Hpfp isnt holding pressure and giving engine the fuel it needs

What map are u currently using?

[btstarcher]

Mine blew out white smoke at first, but it cleared up.

[JgamB]

Fuel sat in the tank for 7 months as well?

[wyeto]

Originally Posted by speed3freak89 White smoke for me was my k04 going up. Oil was blowing by the seal whixh was insanely thin when i went into further inspection of turbo. i could take down pipe off and pour oil out of it. It was thick whit smoke. Im on my phone got to get home to pull up datalog and look at it. It sounds like the tank pump is priming engine but the Hpfp isnt holding pressure and giving engine the fuel it needs What map are u currently using?

Actually its not doing anything at all. On the log it says hpfp pressure is at 0 which I dont understand because the car will start and stay alive if I give it some gas.

Originally Posted by btstarcher Mine blew out white smoke at first, but it cleared up.

Thats what I'm thinking. I witnessed everything being put in and there was a lot of assembly lube and thick grease and this and that so I assume it will clear up.

Exhaust fumes smells like straight gas tho.

Originally Posted by JgamB Fuel sat in the tank for 7 months as well?

Ya. Sat at my house for about 3 months then it got towed to my engine builders house where the transplant started.

Almost a full tank. I was contemplating draining some and putting some fresh in but then I saw that the hpfp pressure was at 0 so I figured something else had to be wrong.

[speed3freak89]

one thing i can notice right away if your idle or close to idle (0.39 pedal position) your vacuume is -1.87 that would indicate a very big vacuume leak somewhere. next your Maf volts are 0.67 that's low seeing as the car really does'nt like to run somewhere under 1.2 volts. your MAF g/S are 0.00 which you should be reading a idle maf g/s it does fluctuate a little i see but it starts out at 1.1 g/s when it stars reading and is all over cause of problem. im gonna attach a map i have load it and see if anything changes also take a datalog lets see if its the map acting crazy.

[speed3freak89]

[URL="http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f505/car-not-starting-fuel-pump-resistor-ballast-16972/"] i came across a hing on the fp resistor which is used to regulate toltage to fuel pump. Theres alao a youtube video about it. Ill post that link when i find it agin.

[URL="https://youtu.be/Gqmto7pgm8Q"]

[btstarcher]

HUGE vacuum leak. Mine wasn't even that low when I forgot to plug the port on my intake manifold. You forgot to connect a hose somewhere.

[speed3freak89]

-1.67 vaccume is crazy low. U definitely have a big vacuume leak. Your idle maf volts are 0.6 which.is crazy cause car doeant really like to ifle unfer 1.2 , your Maf g/s are 0.00 and pick up but are all over place.

[wyeto]

Glad I have something to go off of now. I'll check all my hoses.

My question is would that stop my hpfp from working?

@speed3freak89 I did check the ballast resistor because I saw that thread and it was plugged in... Hmmm

[NCspecV81]

A fully functional, well performing car can and will idle under 1.2v mafv's. The .67v I'm assuming the car is off b/c the rpm's are at 0.

I want to know what parts were changed during the build and what tune he's using (is this an old tune with new parts?). He's at -1.87psi to - 2.02psi of vacuum with the car KOEO. Your MAP sensor is off or you live in a rather interesting part of the world. I'm not sold he has a vacuum leak. The AFR's and LTFT do not scream boost leak to me.

Obviously your fuel presure will not be 0psi if you've actuallly started the car. I'd check the FP sensor on the rail and check connections and see if all is kosher. At minimum it'll read the low side - intank pump - pressure even if the HPFP is damaged (not saying yours is). My HPFP was broken in half and there was still low side pressure. I would definitely investigate the CEL you got. Although, I've done some reading and a faulty installed or faulty HPFP seems it can cause a P0089 code.

But what all changed other than the built motor?

[wyeto]

Basically everything haha. I'll get a list going.
CPE hpfp
PNP intake Mani
Jbr 3" aluminum intake
Gt2871r
Wiseco pistons
Manley rods
BSD
Jbr tigs
3bar map sensor (speed performance plug n play)
Jbr fmic with tr8
Right now I'm on a freektune start up map
Cpe catted dp
Corksport cbe
I know I'm forgetting some stuff.

Only thing I know of that might cause an air leak was my jbr coupler 4"-3" was fitting horrendously. I got it on the turbo side easy but the tip wasn't fitting too well at all and I went to take it off yesterday and it slipped right out of the clamp. When it was attached the coupler was pretty kinked on one side so maybe that could be the source of some problems.

As far as the fuel connections...
I don't think anything is improperly connected. It was still at the machine shop on a table when we were putting those connectors on it at this point so it would have been hard to miss something here. Although maybe something is malfunctioning. Im pretty sure the fuel rail was put in the spray wash with the sensor attached to it (wiring harness obviously not on) but they put all kinds of sensors in the spray wash and as far as I know no problems

Just trying to brainstorm any ideas. I did the swap but this is my first time doing something this big by far so I appreciate the help everyone.

[NCspecV81]

Well first thing I would do is adjust your MAP offset so you're as close to 0.00psi as possible. It's all in the offset. Check my below log with KOEO. It doesn't read much different than yours prior to you cranking the car. Your HPFP Act. pressure and boost psi is different. My car has sat overnight so it's reading intank pressure of 68-71psi.



Then if it were me I would investigate the HPFP and fuel system. Check the connections. The FP reading at 0 reeks of FP sensor, but it's quite obvious you may not have the "desired" fuel pressure due to the way the car is running. A way you could tell if you are getting pressure or not is to turn the car on and give it some throttle. Turn it off and then with a couple of towels in place pull the hp line off the pump or even take a 32mm box wrnech and turn the spill valve. I would personally do the spill valve if that was my only option of verifying fuel pressure.

[brandonnicholson]

Probably wont solve your problem but, when you say you couldn't get the tip in the coupler... Theres a heater hose that is most likely in the way. Loosen the clamp and pull it an inch or so, the part it connects to is long and gives enough room to slide the hose off and clear the coupler.

[wyeto]

Originally Posted by NCspecV81 Well first thing I would do is adjust your MAP offset so you're as close to 0.00psi as possible. It's all in the offset. Check my below log with KOEO. It doesn't read much different than yours prior to you cranking the car. Your HPFP Act. pressure and boost psi is different. My car has sat overnight so it's reading intank pressure of 68-71psi. Then if it were me I would investigate the HPFP and fuel system. Check the connections. The FP reading at 0 reeks of FP sensor, but it's quite obvious you may not have the "desired" fuel pressure due to the way the car is running. A way you could tell if you are getting pressure or not is to turn the car on and give it some throttle. Turn it off and then with a couple of towels in place pull the hp line off the pump or even take a 32mm box wrnech and turn the spill valve. I would personally do the spill valve if that was my only option of verifying fuel pressure.

Is the fuel pressure sensor the big one on the left side of the rail as you look at the car?

I will try the method you explained above when I get a chance. I'd rather not crack open the spill valve as I remember we took it out to clean the rail and when one of the machinists put it back on he put some sealant on it... Hope this wasnt a mistake by him he seemed rather sealant happy but I didnt question him because he has a lot of experience.

Whuch line should I disconnect to verify its getting fuel? The blue going from tank to hpfp or green on hpfp or green on spill valve?

Originally Posted by brandonnicholson Probably wont solve your problem but, when you say you couldn't get the tip in the coupler... Theres a heater hose that is most likely in the way. Loosen the clamp and pull it an inch or so, the part it connects to is long and gives enough room to slide the hose off and clear the coupler.

Thiss^^ that heater core hose was such a bitch and in my way but to be honest I could get the coupler on but I couldnt get the tip to fit without itbeing kinked fairly badly.

Thanks for the suggestion tho. This will definitely clear up some much needed room down there.

[NCspecV81]

Originally Posted by wyeto Is the fuel pressure sensor the big one on the left side of the rail as you look at the car? I will try the method you explained above when I get a chance. I'd rather not crack open the spill valve as I remember we took it out to clean the rail and when one of the machinists put it back on he put some sealant on it... Hope this wasnt a mistake by him he seemed rather sealant happy but I didnt question him because he has a lot of experience. Whuch line should I disconnect to verify its getting fuel? The blue going from tank to hpfp or green on hpfp or green on spill valve? Thiss^^ that heater core hose was such a bitch and in my way but to be honest I could get the coupler on but I couldnt get the tip to fit without itbeing kinked fairly badly. Thanks for the suggestion tho. This will definitely clear up some much needed room down there.

Well the first thing I'd do is take that HPFP out of the car and remove all the sealant. There should be no sealant anywhere near that.

Yes the fp sensor is on the passenger side of the fuel rail.

[Enki]

With ITFP pressure at the rail, either seized internals or spill valve issues/isn't plugged in.

[wyeto]

Originally Posted by NCspecV81 Well the first thing I'd do is take that HPFP out of the car and remove all the sealant. There should be no sealant anywhere near that. Yes the fp sensor is on the passenger side of the fuel rail.

There definitely wasnt any sealant in the hpfp just some on the threads of the spill valve/ relief valve of the fuel rail. (that little gold looking thing)

Originally Posted by Enki With ITFP pressure at the rail, either seized internals or spill valve issues/isn't plugged in.

Your saying something isn't plugged in?

[HawkeyeGeoff]

If it's running excessively rich, it's a Boost leak (post turbo, high pressure piping). If it's excessively lean, it's a vacuum leak.

[wyeto]

Just looked up spill valve and maybe I'm getting it mixed up with something else.

I was thinking the relief valve not the spill valve, I thought they were the same.

The HPFP is from CPE and I didnt mess with it, just took it out of the box and installed it to the engine.

[wyeto]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeGeoff If it's running excessively rich, it's a Boost leak (post turbo, high pressure piping). If it's excessively lean, it's a vacuum leak.

Well it smelled like it was running stupid rich. Could smell fuel from the exhaust but as you can see in the log it says 14.81 which seems ok right?

Although before I dataloged I cranked it and had the monitor on afr and I think it was 8:1 if I remember correctly.

would the best way to check for this be to get a smoker and pump some smoke into it to find a leak?

[HawkeyeGeoff]

Originally Posted by wyeto Well it smelled like it was running stupid rich. Could smell fuel from the exhaust but as you can see in the log it says 14.81 which seems ok right? Although before I dataloged I cranked it and had the monitor on afr and I think it was 8:1 if I remember correctly. would the best way to check for this be to get a smoker and pump some smoke into it to find a leak?

Okay so what happens here is that when the O2 sensor is not warm, it runs off a simulated model. So when the O2 has not reached operating temperature, the ECU will pretty much just assume it's within this range based on how much fuel/air it's giving the chambers. It's not reading anything at this point really. It would be nice if it could run long enough to be able to read though.

I'd recommend just performing a boost leak check.

[wyeto]

Gotcha.

I figured that reading had to be off because you can legitimately smell the gas in the exhaust fumes after I start her up.

What is the recommended method for finding a boost leak?
anything special I need?

[Enki]

Originally Posted by wyeto Your saying something isn't plugged in?

Possibly, but it just might be a bad connection too. Check the plug on top of the fuel pump...thoroughly.

Also listen to the pump itself and if there's no sound coming from it at all, the internals are probably stuck.

Side question:
You don't smell fuel in the engine bay do you?

[wyeto]

Originally Posted by Enki Possibly, but it just might be a bad connection too. Check the plug on top of the fuel pump...thoroughly. Also listen to the pump itself and if there's no sound coming from it at all, the internals are probably stuck. Side question: You don't smell fuel in the engine bay do you?

No fuel smell in the engine bay at all.

I am heading over to the car soon to do a thorough check of all the connectors and pins inside them.

[wyeto]

Getting it towed over to the shop I just started working at to see if the boss can help me find something.

I pulled the fuel pump connector off the fuel rail and the one off the hpfp and the pins all looked good.

Justin at Freektune said that my 02 sensor isnt working either so maybe I have a ground issue of some sort is what I'm thinking or something not plugged in somewhere.

[wyeto]

Well I got a job at a new shop and the boss was convinced my JBR intake was the source of my problems as it was fitting horrendously.

So I put my cpe big turbo inlet on and bought a 45 to make the JBR maf fit with it as well as a valve cover breather.

Put those on hooked everything up and started it up. Same damn thing.

turned over started for 10 sec idled low then died.

Left out of frustration then went back a couple hours later and started poking around with my power probe but didnt see anything out of place.

My throttle body sensor was making a lot of noise with the key at the on position (idk if this is normal) so I go to unclip it to look inside and I break one of the lil plastic tabs that the connector hooks on to. FML

It still slides in but doesnt "CLIP"

started it up again and grabbed a log.
Also got a gang of CEL's which I guess could be a good thing if it leads me in the right direction.
P0113
P0122
P0123
P0222
P0223
P0091

Gonna google these and see what I can see. I think its time to tow it to the shop and let someone that knows what they are doing take a look. I'm too busy and too frustrated.