Hnda Etr Blows...
 

So, Um, Yeah.... I popped...

Actually, I'm relatively luck in that I didn't VTA the block... So I should be able to sell the block to some unsuspecting 247 member someday...

The Bad:
So Sunday, members of Nator SoCal showed up for Lenny's BT swap (http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...che-now-63559/) and my PG Reworked K04 swap at my buddy Tony's house.

everything got done, eventually lol...

We installed my reworked K04 and got everything connected. I am using the Grimmspeed EBCS and a PTP upgraded WGA on the K04 along with Cobb AP.

Sunday night I took the car for a couple spins around the block and it ran fine - felt strong and I didn't notice any issues other than boost was hitting higher than what my map was requesting - Cld12pk2go has my map set to ~22 psi and I was hitting around 24 IIRC...

Went to dinner, drank a lot of Iced Tea and spent the night at my buddy's house.

Meanwhile, Cld12pk sent me a new map to try out on my old turbo - switched to boost targeting instead of load targeting - however he didn't know I had switched turbos the night before.

So get up in the morning and install new map and drive to starbucks. On the way back to Tony's house, we jump on the car to see how it would react to the new map and it didn't like it at all. I was logging this so I could send it to Cld12pk for review. Got a lot of stumbling/jerking like it was hitting some kind of load/fuel/boost cut... not sure. We tried it 2 times and got same results both times.

So, cruise it back to the house, car runs fine just cruising.... I switch back to the map I was running from the night before and decide to really get on it... So I drive around the block and nail it... 1st and 2nd lots of tire spin and squealing, shift to 3rd and floor it, lots of tire spin/squealing and what feels like boost cut - pop pop pop IIRC, although I'm kind of fuzzy on the exact details... Try it one more time and same thing happens... Then, soon as I'm out of boost I hear this loud as fuck clattering sound - clack clack clack clack.....

First thought was Shit! Blew the relief valve like bmorrisJ did.... shit! I watch fuel pressure driving it back and everything looks fine.. weird...

Another thing to note, is that the car felt like it wanted to go into boost at the slightest throttle... like that feeling you get right when the turbo is spooling up and about to take off - that dragging feeling before the boost kicks in...

Pull it into the driveway and pop the hood... not good... clattering sound seems to be coming from top of motor... I also pressed clutch in all the way and didn't feel any shaking in the pedal...

So, we do a compression check... 1 - 4 are ~145, 160, 160, 160... So cylinder 1 is down a little... Next, leakdown test... 1 & 2 were at 100% leakage... gauge never got out of the red zone. 3 & 4 perfect - gauge in the high green zone.

So now we're thinking maybe I floated a valve or broke a valve spring resulting in a collapsed valve...

We end up taking the valve cover off and do a visual inspection... everything looks good, no metal, no collapsed valve spring buckets, no abnormal wear on cam lobes, timing chain tight, no physical damage to cam sprockets/VVTs... We cranked the motor over to watch the valves and everything moved smoothly - all valves moving normally up and down and up and down... Shit...

So I put valve cover back on and start the car to see if sound still present - yup still there (one can hope) but this time, I let the clutch out slowly and right at the top of the pedal travel - crazy mad fucking vibration!! FUCK!!

Turn off motor, put all tools away and tell Tony "It's a rod". So he gets in, starts up car saying well, if it's already fucked, this isn't gonna do much more to it lol, and feels clutch pedal... Yup, he agrees it's a rod... Fuck again!!

So I text Lenny and tell him my motor popped and he actually called me back. He was pretty sympathetic, but I'm sure deep down he was thanking the car gods that it was my car and not his... SMNF!

Tony has AAA with the 300 (or 200?) mile tow... so flatbed gets there after about the 30 minutes they promised! Imagine that!

Now my car is sitting in my driveway... FML.

The Good:
About the beginning of 2010, Ken from PG put a motor up for sale on 247 and I worked out a payment plan with him to purchase it. So after making 4 payments over a 10 month (LOL) period, I get the motor and it's sitting on a pallet in my driveway. Block, Crank, Head (no cams!) Timing Cover (I'll have to see if chain is there). Ken has the OEM Rods and Pistons and is going to hold them for me until I can sell them (anyone want to buy OEM rods/pistons? lol).

Also during the beginning of 2010, I purchased a complete forged internals kit from some dude on 247 also (I pretty much troll 247 for sale threads only) for a pretty decent price (according to SU Mark, whom this guy bought the kit from originally). Kit includes CP pistons, Pauter Rods, complete Mazda engine gasket kit although I won't need the head gasket since kit also came with Cometic head gasket, and ARP studs (and I didn't pay anywhere near what the guy wanted lol).

So now, I have a block, internals, and cams from my blown block (along with any other miscellaneous parts) but no money :(

I was contracting for a company for almost a year (after being unemployed for almost exactly 1 year) so I made pretty decent $$$ but in the interest of job security, I took a permanent position with benefits, but WAY less money... I'm probably at a PhillyB poverty level...

So looks like I'll have to start selling shit to get the money for the machine work and assembly of the motor.... not parting my car out just yet, so back the fuck up you vultures!

But I have a stock intake I was going to get PnP'd but never did, stock TB, PG version of the GTSpec underbody bracing kit, a K04 that smoked, stock rods/pistons, some other miscellaneous small shit lol... and my prized set of Volk Racing GT-C wheels in 18x8 5x114.3 in Gunmetal grey, along with the special lugs required for this wheel and a set of iForged TPMS adapters to allow you to run the factory TPMS sensors with these wheels.

I don't want to sell the wheels, but looks like I may have to... Lenny thinks the wheels would look ghey on my black 3, but I don't know... I think they look good lol... what do you guys think?

Anyways... Lenny has been great in trying to keep me cheered up, as have Cld12pk2go (although I'm sure Merritt is liking the break he's gonna get from e-tuning me lol) and Dano2010. JCMS3 gave me some ideas on who can build my motor too...

Ken at ProtegeGarage has offered to help pay for the machine work to make my cams in the blown motor, work on the new block (I guess just the polishing of the journals and cams?) and has offered to help any way he can - thanks Ken!

My buddy Tony was a Master Tech for over 12 years, so he and I can do the motor swap, but I'll still need to get the motor/head machined and assembled.

Danny @ Cobb SoCal says that he can't do anything till after the shop is open Jan 22 and I'm sure he would cost a premium that goes with the Cobb name...

Anyone have any connections/suggestions for who can build my block for PhillyB cheap?

As for why the motor popped... not sure... In talking with Dano2010, he says that the only thing that makes sense for the overboosting would be if one of the lines to the GS EBCS leaked... but I just checked out the lines and the vacuum T and Cap that I have installed and everything looks tight and intact... so I'm not sure why it happened...

I wasn't sure about if I wanted to post about this, even though people already knew, but everyone has been pretty supportive (other than Haltech and you-know-who PhillyB - although I'm sure if I needed their help, they would be there lol) and I guess I could use the cheering up.

fymn
i actually read about half of that. got to the "good" and stopped.
congrats roy. someone in socal had to be the first

sorry to hear man...I didn't get the THE GOOD part...

seemed like you did not adjust WGDC upon install of the EBCS? did you at least turn down WGDC by 30%?

it don't matter no more, I know...but after running into spikes, I tuned from spring pressure with 0's across WGDC...hope maybe the next guy will read this before doing the same...

I'm sure there's a lot more that went into this, but that'd be my first stab at it...

also, what's you WGA preloaded at? mine was too high really at about 18 psi...so that made tuning even that much more difficult...and going on what Cobb wrote about in the first manual (I haven't even gotten around to reading the new one yet), tuning boost with old ATR was the most time intensive process.

All things considered, ur in an "ok" position as far as having another block and everything u need.......

I say sell those wheels and do a mini part out of the non essentials & u will be back on the road in no time!

GLWRB (good luck with re-build) :)

PTP WGA is the culprit i am guessing. No way any map is gonna allow hard boost at a blip of a throttle. The modified WGA along with the EBC ( wtf are you running a boost controller on a flash tune? ) are your contributing factors here.

it sucks you blew Roy but this will teach people lesson about having to many variables and testing a new map without easing into it.

Lets list rhe fails:

Reworked turbo and no idea how it would react
Modified WGS by PTP of all people
Electronic Boost Control on a car that has proven Flash Tuning

Ugh, you idiot!

Anyhow, if you need someone to throw the engine together without fucking you in the ass, send me a PM.

Sorry to hear, good luck with the rebuild.

Sorry to hear about it man... If you were on the east coast I could put in a good word with my engine builder... Fantastic job and a great price...well, as good as can be expected.

wow..sorry to hear this bro. :tragedy:
sounds like you have a plan to get her back up and running. thumbs up for not parting her out.

Hey bro keep your head up. your socal nator we never fail...for too long.:wall:

Good luck with the build man! Way to think ahead, by buying a new block and what not. Planning is definitely key for when something like this happens. Every one of us here that mods these cars should have an emergency plan in place.

Thanks Phil, but you're getting lazy... where's the "tl; dr; nce"? Does that mean U <3 Me?

Well, I guess the good is that I already have the parts and the block, so I don't have to come up with the money for that stuff right now...

The EBCS was installed a while ago, and was running perfectly with the stock K04 and Cld12pk's tune - after install, I dropped the entire WGDC by 20% and then Cld12pk tuned me from there... I should have dropped the WGDC before running with new SST hard, but it ran fine the night of install so I just didn't think of it at the time... my BIG bad...

I purchased the PG K04 around a year ago I'm guessing and at that time, sent if off to PTP for thermal coating and installation of the WGA. John installed the WGA and set it up for me - i think he said it had 1mm of preload...? or something like that... lol..

Yeah, that's what I have to keep telling myself - that it's not as bad as it could be... I really hate parting with the wheels, but looks like I'm gonna have to :(

The Grimmspeed EBCS worked great Kev... It's still managed by the factory ECU since it's not a standalone BCS.

I got the WGA almost a year ago.. before the whole PTP mess.... Also, it's got a ~14 lbs spring in it, so I figured if it failed, i would only be at 14psi...

Cld12pk and I were actually crossing emails... he sent me a map to try on my stock K04, at the same time I emailed and let him know about the new SST, then he sent me a new map with reduced values for the SST, but I had already popped on one of the older maps...

Will PM you now for engine builder ideas...

Thanks bro!

Thanks Scott... hopefully you'll have some injector seals and RV ready for me before the motor rebuild is done eh? ;) and intake maybe? lol can't hurt to try...

Also, if his price is a lot better than what I can find here, it may be worth sending to him lol...

Yeah, partout is something I don't want to do.. thanks!

LOL almost true Skeet... Remember PhillyB? I'm still waiting for that nikka to raise up out of the gutter...

Thanks man! Yeah, I'm lucky I was planning on a build in the future lol... just not right now! I'm also lucky in the sense that I originally wanted to build a full drop in motor, from valve cover to oil pan.... The motor I got from Ken doesn't have cams and he can't find them, so at this point it doesn't matter though, since I won't be using my cams now...

you know i care. i still owe you something, if you're stocking out, i gotta find you a downpipe. keep me updated either through pm or text, i prob won't check this thread very often.

well just keep going over "the good" section

it could be alot worse if u werent preparing...

good luck

probably wont be stocking out far enough to require that part... just get it to me when you can lol..

Werd!

Sorry to hear. I'm glad you got another motor so you're not in a terrible situation, but there's always the cost/time of building and swapping involved. Hey if you decide to get rid of the Volks shoot me a PM...

Shitty it went the way it did. Was the 24 psi on the gauge or just what the DH or AP read? The cuts and high boost eventually made it pack it in. You'll get it back together, just think it through and don't rush.

How many miles were on the motor?

As I already said. Very sorry to hear this bro!

That sucks, I hate to hear that about a SoCal speed.

True that! So far, from what I looked into, it'll run me from $1500 - $2000 for the assembly and machine work... Pulling and replacing the motor will be something I'll have to do...

The 24 psi is what I remember seeing on the DH Sunday night... I don't know how much PSI I was getting when I got the boost cut and unfortunately, I didn't think to log it... Motor had ~61500 on it... And not 61500 Lenny miles... normal, occasionally spirited miles... UOA showed a very healthy motor :(

Thanks Dan!

And I definitely hate being that SoCal speed ;)

all i can say is Stock Turbo and Super Stock Turbo FTL

not sure why guys run SST's on stock internals motors. they are our turbos on roids which equals bad.

BT with stock internals = FTW

soory to hear about yoour loss but win is in your future

I feel your pain bro and Im sorry. Similar thing happened to me. I put a new map in and got on it right off the bat. Between that and a faulty stock pump I fell to the same outcome but only worse. Good things will come of it.

Ps. The Pg turbo and ptp wg were not the problems. It was just a bad combo of circumstance.

Yeah... I'll have to start thinking of how to sneak in and steal Lenny's 3071 after my build is done... Hmmm....

Thanks man... I wish I knew what WAS the problem though... I thought I might have popped a vacuum hose or something, but they all looked good... And Cld12pk was only targeting 22 psi in my maps...

u know what u have to do roy..... may not seem so dude but

built motor and less rice > stocker running ko4 + stage 4 rice


when the motor is built and your car is fast as balls u will agree with me....also, u need to not only figure out how much shit to sell to get that motor built, but how much more shit to sell to get a BT.... this is the time.

as my grampa used to say... go BT or go home

yeah yeah... but i have just the right amount of rice!

sometimes in life dude negatives force us to turn shit into a larger positive than before....but u gotta sacrifice shit along the way.

thats all im saying...

Wurd..

i think it needs to be made clear to peeople who are thinking about going SST need to build their motor

Fuckin' lame Roy, well if ya need a helping hand just lemme know. As lenny said save yo pennies and go BT! Then your car will be as fast as it looks!

the question is when did you peak 24 psi? if at 1400 that would be bad,
but hell i ran around @ 26 psi for several weeks, and held that boost from 3500-7k many times on stock internals, no problems and did a compression test after the fact, 195 on all but #3 was 190 if i recall right...

but dont they trim those to boost later?
hmmm...
good luck man!

SSt will kill a stock engine. to much torque down low, to quick. Its been common knowledge around here for 18 months.

Build the motor, go 35r and tear up some ass.

hnda etr sell me that bnoon banjo bolt you just bought, since you don't need it now...

The stock MAP sensor caps out at 24psi. So it's likely you were actually spiking higher than that.

also, for those that say the new ko4 shouldnt have been boosting any diff...well.... let me tell u this, i boosted 2 psi higher using the new ko4 with the ported hotside and THE SAME WGA from my oem ko4....

so...anything is possible, the lesson to be learned is to NEVER get on it until u know the car wont overboost, i have spent the past 2 days trying lil by lil with my set up to see how the car reacts with roll in throttle , stabbing at throttle, diff rpms etc etc...

That really sucks, but at least you do have a good block, crank, and head. Rebuilds are alot cheaper when you dont grenade the whole thing.

Sorry to hear about this.. that sucks. But it looks like you have lots of parts to get running again. if i can help in any way ask..

Sucks to hear, good luck with the rebuild.

Lenny, were you running EBC or MBC at this time? Just trying to learn a thing or two here.

an MBC wouldn't know the difference and would certainly over boost whereas and EBC has a target and would adjust, to a point.

My bank account thanks you for not parting out. Good luck with the rebuild.

Dude sorry to hear man, it sucks balls, I know the feeling! To be honest, you're in a way better position than I am in that you have all the parts. I don't have dick atm. Good luck w/ the build, and I hope that you're up and running sooner than I am. Keep us all posted.

^ this all sounds awful. The cutting could have very well been deto, and seems like a healthy dose. Your lucky to have a complete block man, congrats on that! And now you have an excuse to make your block much much stronger.

Hopefully they'll learn from my stupidity and not jump on it after install too - change your maps, lower loads/boost/wgdc and slowly tune upwards...

Thanks Adam, I appreciate the offer! You can help me when I sneak over and steal Lenny's BT...

Thanks Man!

You bet!

$1500 dorrah... they sell for a premium now you know... PM me offer if you can't do $1500 shipped...

didn't even think about that, but you're probably right... just wish I knew what caused the over boosting...

All your stupidz are belong to me.

yeah!
Thanks Bro!
Thanks!
lol... Thanks!

Thanks man... and if I can help you in any way, lmk too!

True that Dustin!

:bong:

too funny...

Yep, this ^^^^ is what killed the rod(s). Been there, done that. I was driving codemaster883s car when it happened on stock turbo with AP OTS map and no standalone boost gauge.

Damn. I'm out of the loop. Lenny's BT'd and you popped. Shit.

You were shooting loads in your intake again huh? Man, you didn't bend a rod, your jizz collected and hardened. God dammit, Roy. If you were that hard up, you should have just sprung for a fleshlight.

lol Fleshlight FTW!

I am sorry to hear that your motor took a shit though. Really, man. Although, I've been there a few times myself not only on this car, but others. It always sucks to hear about it.

Good luck.

If i knew how to ask for help I'm sure I would, but I'm the kinda person that will refuse to ask for anything, granted on the other hand I will go outa my way to help someone else out...go figure that one out.

Thanks Tony!

Yeah, I can understand that lol!

This is also a lesson about setting safety thresholds on a stock block. If the ECU cut limit is set at 3.0 load ... well it's too little too late.

LOL Have you seen my Load tables? They're indeed set to 2.95. I use the max boost fuel cut to "save" the motor (it works well BTW), well at least up till now! I really don't WANT to vent the block, but you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet! Wish me luck, PLEASE! :D

Oh, and I would NOT tune someone elses' car to that level!!!

This brings up an interesting question. When I have set any limit tables like Throttle Close or Fuel cut on the Boost tables I notice that just because you hit those limits doesn't mean the ECU will enforce them, at least not immediately.

Maybe you have to exceed that limit for a full second or two? if that's the case it would likely be too late.

Has anyone else experienced this?

Best safety net is a properly setup knock sensor and KR IMO. Cuts are helpful, but you can definitely detonate below cut thresholds in many cases, and many times the cut has to be "qualified", like exceeded for XXX milliseconds... which is often too late.

I have been traveling most of the last 2 weeks and am just now reading through this thread...

My best guess is that the boost went well over 24 PSI causing detonation or simply too much cylinder pressure (either = FAIL for the stock rods).

Which map were you on when said FAIL occurred? I will look at if for some clues.

It is a shame we don't have more logs to examine to better understand the exact failure mode. The single log you had from the boost targeting map appeared to be in early gears (2nd/3rd maybe) where there were very few data points to make any meaningful determination other than the WGDC was chasing it's tail wildly.

It sounded like both maps to me. One session of fail with the boost targeting map, and the finishing blow after he went back to previous map.

Cld12pk, was this the latest ATR?

Oh, and i think he was logging on the boost targeting map IIRC, perhaps we could check those out...

I have found this as well.

In late, damn man that sucks to hear about the motor. Glad to hear you had a spare motor. Good luck on the rebuild.

I was running the HE18b map... I don't know if I sent that one to you, but I'll send it to you tonight just to be sure.

Cld12pk has the 1 log I took on the boost targeting map already...

Thanks buddy!

Be interesting to see this map you initially caused the damage with.. unfortunately roy, i really wish you would of at least asked for a very very toned down map or even went to a stage 1 16 psi map just to see how the WGA and SST were going to work.

I do not think this map is as much fail as your WGA modification and the SST itself. I have very little faith in Johns abilities and no faith in PG's ability when it came to "designing" the modified SST. I do not think there is one person now who has run an SST that has not blown.

Anyhow, what did my man Dante say?

If boost is out of control you want to do 3 things. Open WG, close throttle, cut spark, NOT fuel and you want to do it as quickly as possible. Might create a fireball in the exhaust but the motor is more likely to survive this way.

I am not sure what strategy the car uses for the different cuts (load, boost, etc).

i was completely stock oem bc + AP...

mbc i bought solely for the BT.......


so.... the ONLY thing that had changed was the TURBO.... not even the wga was diff...i re used the old one. that to me tells u that u cannot dismiss any variable just because u think its the same.

I've only had one instance of max boost fuel cut and it was less than 1/2 second on the log I was running. The log data intervals were ~4 milliseconds, so the ECU reaction was somewhat less than that. The throttle close settings, IMO, only apply with a very slowly increasing boost and with some amount of time delay before it "works". There will ALWAYS be some hysteresis (delays) in the ECU reaction to prevent oscillating. There are likely hysteresis settings that can be changed if Christian or Trey were to look for them and add to ATR.

I have not logged ANY throttle close occurances. Of course when logging I'm at WOT for pretty much the whole time, so any limit "excursions" are rapid and decisive!

now that I think about it, I have hit fuel cut and I "think" it was fairly quick...I know throttle close is much slower to react but would actually be the absolute best thing to happen first.

As Lex said spark maybe but, filling the cat with fuel on a hot exhaust aint so good. Better there than the motor though for sure.

I would agree with Haltech on the SST...those can just be a bad idea because of their super fast spool and tendency to spike...then you make them more powerful. BT is MUCH better.

we live...and hopefully....if we pay attention....we learn....

Edit: I went back to look at logs and Boost Limit - Throttle Close does nothing. I have logs where the limit is exceeded for over 2 seconds and the throttle was actually opening more.

I sent you two HE18's within a few min (made another quick tweak on the second version), is the second one what you call HE18b or did you make changes to one of them to arrive at that map?

If it was just the second map, the key attributes on it where as follows:

• Boost targeting, aiming for 17 PSI (intent was to be super conservative until how the car responded was understood/dialed in)
  
• WGDC was pulled down 1-3 units (~5-15%) across the board from the HE16c map
  
• Boost Dynamics were about 20% detuned from what was working well for me with my K04 in boost targeting mode
  
• Used the same boost limit - fuel cut as in HE16c (22.6 PSI). In hind sight, this probably should have been lowered to minimize the chance of overboost prior to cut.

Here is the single log from HE18:

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...riortoboom.jpg

I am assuming this is a 2nd/3rd gear pull. It is obvious that the WGDC is pretty much going bonkers and that he was running a full point leaner than on the previous maps prior to the turbo swap.

HE19 was going to cut the boost dynamics in half and drop the boost limit - fuel cut to 22 PSI, alas it was too late by then.

I have never seen this do squat either. Not sure why, as it would be a useful function.

Sorry to hear that man going boom must suck, bright side is that now you can be built.

Cheapest solution to building the block? Do it yourself, it's actually really simple. Just measuring a bunch of shit and installing.

Or you could cut your losses and sell me your transmission for cheap :D
Best of luck!

I haven't called him yet...

The HE16b I'm referring to is a modification of your HE16 map - I think I emailed it to you last week - it contained changes to the Ign Timing Max A&B tables and I think some additional fuel pressure...

EDIT - I meant 16b - sorry!

I actually have a transmission for sale if you're serious... PM me what you're looking to spend and I'll see if it's worth it ;)

Here's the map i was running when i popped

I have the PTP wga and it actually adds to the spiking because it doesnt get blown open until much higher turbine pressures are reached, as compaired to stock.

The bonus is that it holds boost longer.

The spiking has been near impossible to tune out though.

whats the deal with that super high load at 4500 rpm?? KR went nuts too.

man this shit kinda makes me have second thoughts about letting xtian tune me with ebc

I'll let Cld12pk chime in here... That was the first map we tried that was boost based instead of load based...

The PTP wga is adjustable though, so you should be able to loosen it up... Iirc it's a ~14lbs spring...

ya idk shit..it just looks odd compared to other ones ... so u seel any shit yet?

Yeah its adjustable, but even so its way stiffer.

I'm running the PTP WGA with the GS EBCS just fine...it took a long time and my preload was set higher than I wanted by my mechanic, but it's doable with ATR.

Pm sent about wheels...

Boost was spiking after the shift. Since the KR was in the last data row prior to lifting, it is unclear if that is "let of throttle KR" or the more typical kind.

We really just don't have enough data, but everything tends to suggest that the new turbo/WGA was responding much more aggressively than the previous setup.

What is confusing is why the pull showed lean in the first gear during the pull. I wonder if the meth was not working or if we had unmetered air entering between the turbo and MAF?


Lenny,

What I would recommend when trying out new maps or after hardware changes would be the following procedure:

1.) do a partial throttle pull in a high gear (like 4th or 5th) to above the CL/OL transition (say 10 PSI) and log while watching AFR or KR on the AP. Review datalog to assure that your AFR is as per your fueling tables in OL else you need to fix something (recalibrate MAF tables, get meth working, fix unmetered air leaks). Also verify that nothing unexpected is occurring with the boost control/WGDC or KR.

2.) Once satisfied with the results, do other logs in a high gear to progressively higher boost levels until you have reached WOT analyzing the data after each pass (probably another 2-3 iterations).

The reason I say do it in a high gear is that bad things can happen way too fast in the low gears to respond in time and in our case we cannot get sufficient data in any gear below 4th. If anything is amiss on the above pulls, lift immediately and analyze the logs for clues as to what is wrong.

I used it pretty effectively on my "save the fuel pump" map. I found that it would allow the boost to go about 2-3psi above the number in the table before taking action.

I put it right at my boost target which was 15psi and it kept boost from creeping above 17psi (before the limit it would creep to 18.4-19psi on cold nights and cause my fuel pressure to drop)

I think it's more effective at preventing creep than preventing spiking.

I never played with it extensively; however, I repeatedly saw it ignore 0-1 PSI over the table value without any appreciable response on the throttle position.

Sounds like it just requires more boost error prior to taking meaningful action based upon your findings...

Sounds like a multiplier or comp table is still out there somewhere and perhaps if we had it we could set the boost error to .01 and it will kick in immediately.

I don't think I have ever gone over 2 PSI beyond the Throttle Close table so maybe I'll try setting it lower to see what is what.

do eeeet. My guess is it's simply the starting point of some over boost logic, and may require either a few more psi over that limit, or a time qualifier. It'd be great to see it set like 2psi lower than what you normally use.

I didn't have any problems with the meth, and remember the car ran ok the night before on the older map, so I don't think there was a vacuum leak anywhere, or the car would have run like shit the night after install....

I don't know if we'll every really know what caused the blow, especially with the limited data I have...

It honestly sounds mechanical to me. You were obviously over boosting, and the ecu appeared to be doing what he could to stop it (WGDC was 0's in that log). I think either a boost line popped off, or something screwed up with he actuator. Not sure.

I was putting off reading this thread bc I thought it was in response to the would you suck dick for $1B thread. Sorry to hear man, good luck...

Well, after Xmas I'll be able to pull the PG K04 off the car and take a look at it... all the hoses (all 2 of them) look fine going to the EBCS though...

If anyone wants to buy the PG K04 & PTP WGA, lemme know ;)

thanks!

The car is load tuned from the factory, so it has to allow for a lot of boost variation. Makes sense that boost limiting tables would be pretty soft.

Compare the two dynamics tables - load hits hard and early, boost is soft early then harder at extremes. I set a BOLO in my brain for "boost shit I never thought of" because I know there's things I haven't had to deal with in load tuning that will now show up with boost tuning. Today I put a modified load dynamics table in my boost dynamics table (the over side) to see what happens.

you should run the ebcs in 3 port mode. I don't know much...don't know anything, really...but I can help you start off with your WGDC table once you get up and running again...

But I don't know how many hands you want in your jar...you know? =)

I am starting to think my Grimm EBC is not working right. I have it setup in 3 port and my WGDC is still about the same as it was on the OEM BC. It is my understanding it should be about 50% less DC setup in interrupt mode...IDK

Fobio is yours that much less than OEM?

Are your vac lines properly connected for the EBC?

I believe so.....it is hooked up just like the instructions on their site indicate... but it does seem to be acting like it is running in 2 port.

easy enough to switch things around and see if I can VTA my block. haha I would of course knock my WGDC tables down first.


maybe I'll try that later today or tomorrow...

I did the EBCS's instructions and started off 30% lowered WGDC (by applying M to the table)...it was way too high...spiking 24psi...I never beat it like that, cuz it doesn't feel right.

this wouldn't be a problem if your upgrade was just the EBCS, but with the PTP WGA installed, 50% lowered WGDC was still too much. so I said eff it...I put 0's on the whole WGDC table, ran spring pressure, and were holding 18PSI...so I knew my preload was higher than I wanted by 2PSI, as I wanted preload to be 16PSI...oh well...

tuning from spring pressure, you first didn't have to worry about spikes, and I was also able to try a few things out without worried about blowing.

once my load curve/spikes were understood and contained on straight spring pressure, I then bgan to up WGDC to hit my boost targets and increase my load curve a bit at a time.

here's my current WGDC table:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_m50f7LraxWM/TQ...DC_Dec2010.jpg

oh..I forgot about your big WGA spring so that will skew the numbers for sho.

I may just have my WGA preload down to like 11-12PSI and just need to add a bit more preload so DC isn't so high.

thanks

Edit: just looked back at my WGA test logs and it is cracking at ~12PSI so I could go 1 more PSI maybe but IIRC 12PSI is about what the OEM K04 WG cracked at back when I tested it so IDK.

Dano, when I installed my Perrin EBCS in 3-port on the stock turbo I didn't change the WGDC at all and it worked perfectly. When I switched to the BNR, I had to set the table to 25% from 2250 up to begin.

so you lowered the entire table by 25% or set it to 25% of the original values?

You have a PM...

I set the table value to 25 across the board after 2250...

O I C...gotcha!