Hnda Etr Blows...

[hnda etr]

So, Um, Yeah.... I popped...

Actually, I'm relatively luck in that I didn't VTA the block... So I should be able to sell the block to some unsuspecting 247 member someday...

The Bad:
So Sunday, members of Nator SoCal showed up for Lenny's BT swap (http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...che-now-63559/) and my PG Reworked K04 swap at my buddy Tony's house.

everything got done, eventually lol...

We installed my reworked K04 and got everything connected. I am using the Grimmspeed EBCS and a PTP upgraded WGA on the K04 along with Cobb AP.

Sunday night I took the car for a couple spins around the block and it ran fine - felt strong and I didn't notice any issues other than boost was hitting higher than what my map was requesting - Cld12pk2go has my map set to ~22 psi and I was hitting around 24 IIRC...

Went to dinner, drank a lot of Iced Tea and spent the night at my buddy's house.

Meanwhile, Cld12pk sent me a new map to try out on my old turbo - switched to boost targeting instead of load targeting - however he didn't know I had switched turbos the night before.

So get up in the morning and install new map and drive to starbucks. On the way back to Tony's house, we jump on the car to see how it would react to the new map and it didn't like it at all. I was logging this so I could send it to Cld12pk for review. Got a lot of stumbling/jerking like it was hitting some kind of load/fuel/boost cut... not sure. We tried it 2 times and got same results both times.

So, cruise it back to the house, car runs fine just cruising.... I switch back to the map I was running from the night before and decide to really get on it... So I drive around the block and nail it... 1st and 2nd lots of tire spin and squealing, shift to 3rd and floor it, lots of tire spin/squealing and what feels like boost cut - pop pop pop IIRC, although I'm kind of fuzzy on the exact details... Try it one more time and same thing happens... Then, soon as I'm out of boost I hear this loud as fuck clattering sound - clack clack clack clack.....

First thought was Shit! Blew the relief valve like bmorrisJ did.... shit! I watch fuel pressure driving it back and everything looks fine.. weird...

Another thing to note, is that the car felt like it wanted to go into boost at the slightest throttle... like that feeling you get right when the turbo is spooling up and about to take off - that dragging feeling before the boost kicks in...

Pull it into the driveway and pop the hood... not good... clattering sound seems to be coming from top of motor... I also pressed clutch in all the way and didn't feel any shaking in the pedal...

So, we do a compression check... 1 - 4 are ~145, 160, 160, 160... So cylinder 1 is down a little... Next, leakdown test... 1 & 2 were at 100% leakage... gauge never got out of the red zone. 3 & 4 perfect - gauge in the high green zone.

So now we're thinking maybe I floated a valve or broke a valve spring resulting in a collapsed valve...

We end up taking the valve cover off and do a visual inspection... everything looks good, no metal, no collapsed valve spring buckets, no abnormal wear on cam lobes, timing chain tight, no physical damage to cam sprockets/VVTs... We cranked the motor over to watch the valves and everything moved smoothly - all valves moving normally up and down and up and down... Shit...

So I put valve cover back on and start the car to see if sound still present - yup still there (one can hope) but this time, I let the clutch out slowly and right at the top of the pedal travel - crazy mad fucking vibration!! FUCK!!

Turn off motor, put all tools away and tell Tony "It's a rod". So he gets in, starts up car saying well, if it's already fucked, this isn't gonna do much more to it lol, and feels clutch pedal... Yup, he agrees it's a rod... Fuck again!!

So I text Lenny and tell him my motor popped and he actually called me back. He was pretty sympathetic, but I'm sure deep down he was thanking the car gods that it was my car and not his... SMNF!

Tony has AAA with the 300 (or 200?) mile tow... so flatbed gets there after about the 30 minutes they promised! Imagine that!

Now my car is sitting in my driveway... FML.

The Good:
About the beginning of 2010, Ken from PG put a motor up for sale on 247 and I worked out a payment plan with him to purchase it. So after making 4 payments over a 10 month (LOL) period, I get the motor and it's sitting on a pallet in my driveway. Block, Crank, Head (no cams!) Timing Cover (I'll have to see if chain is there). Ken has the OEM Rods and Pistons and is going to hold them for me until I can sell them (anyone want to buy OEM rods/pistons? lol).

Also during the beginning of 2010, I purchased a complete forged internals kit from some dude on 247 also (I pretty much troll 247 for sale threads only) for a pretty decent price (according to SU Mark, whom this guy bought the kit from originally). Kit includes CP pistons, Pauter Rods, complete Mazda engine gasket kit although I won't need the head gasket since kit also came with Cometic head gasket, and ARP studs (and I didn't pay anywhere near what the guy wanted lol).

So now, I have a block, internals, and cams from my blown block (along with any other miscellaneous parts) but no money

I was contracting for a company for almost a year (after being unemployed for almost exactly 1 year) so I made pretty decent $$$ but in the interest of job security, I took a permanent position with benefits, but WAY less money... I'm probably at a PhillyB poverty level...

So looks like I'll have to start selling shit to get the money for the machine work and assembly of the motor.... not parting my car out just yet, so back the fuck up you vultures!

But I have a stock intake I was going to get PnP'd but never did, stock TB, PG version of the GTSpec underbody bracing kit, a K04 that smoked, stock rods/pistons, some other miscellaneous small shit lol... and my prized set of Volk Racing GT-C wheels in 18x8 5x114.3 in Gunmetal grey, along with the special lugs required for this wheel and a set of iForged TPMS adapters to allow you to run the factory TPMS sensors with these wheels.

I don't want to sell the wheels, but looks like I may have to... Lenny thinks the wheels would look ghey on my black 3, but I don't know... I think they look good lol... what do you guys think?

Anyways... Lenny has been great in trying to keep me cheered up, as have Cld12pk2go (although I'm sure Merritt is liking the break he's gonna get from e-tuning me lol) and Dano2010. JCMS3 gave me some ideas on who can build my motor too...

Ken at ProtegeGarage has offered to help pay for the machine work to make my cams in the blown motor, work on the new block (I guess just the polishing of the journals and cams?) and has offered to help any way he can - thanks Ken!

My buddy Tony was a Master Tech for over 12 years, so he and I can do the motor swap, but I'll still need to get the motor/head machined and assembled.

Danny @ Cobb SoCal says that he can't do anything till after the shop is open Jan 22 and I'm sure he would cost a premium that goes with the Cobb name...

Anyone have any connections/suggestions for who can build my block for PhillyB cheap?

As for why the motor popped... not sure... In talking with Dano2010, he says that the only thing that makes sense for the overboosting would be if one of the lines to the GS EBCS leaked... but I just checked out the lines and the vacuum T and Cap that I have installed and everything looks tight and intact... so I'm not sure why it happened...

I wasn't sure about if I wanted to post about this, even though people already knew, but everyone has been pretty supportive (other than Haltech and you-know-who PhillyB - although I'm sure if I needed their help, they would be there lol) and I guess I could use the cheering up.

[phillyb]

fymn
i actually read about half of that. got to the "good" and stopped.
congrats roy. someone in socal had to be the first

[Fobio]

sorry to hear man...I didn't get the THE GOOD part...

seemed like you did not adjust WGDC upon install of the EBCS? did you at least turn down WGDC by 30%?

it don't matter no more, I know...but after running into spikes, I tuned from spring pressure with 0's across WGDC...hope maybe the next guy will read this before doing the same...

I'm sure there's a lot more that went into this, but that'd be my first stab at it...

also, what's you WGA preloaded at? mine was too high really at about 18 psi...so that made tuning even that much more difficult...and going on what Cobb wrote about in the first manual (I haven't even gotten around to reading the new one yet), tuning boost with old ATR was the most time intensive process.

[DSIT995]

All things considered, ur in an "ok" position as far as having another block and everything u need.......

I say sell those wheels and do a mini part out of the non essentials & u will be back on the road in no time!

GLWRB (good luck with re-build)

[Haltech]

PTP WGA is the culprit i am guessing. No way any map is gonna allow hard boost at a blip of a throttle. The modified WGA along with the EBC ( wtf are you running a boost controller on a flash tune? ) are your contributing factors here.

it sucks you blew Roy but this will teach people lesson about having to many variables and testing a new map without easing into it.

Lets list rhe fails:

Reworked turbo and no idea how it would react
Modified WGS by PTP of all people
Electronic Boost Control on a car that has proven Flash Tuning

Ugh, you idiot!

Anyhow, if you need someone to throw the engine together without fucking you in the ass, send me a PM.

[predapio]

Sorry to hear, good luck with the rebuild.

[SilverDemon]

Sorry to hear about it man... If you were on the east coast I could put in a good word with my engine builder... Fantastic job and a great price...well, as good as can be expected.

[Speedn3]

wow..sorry to hear this bro.
sounds like you have a plan to get her back up and running. thumbs up for not parting her out.

[skeeter149]

Hey bro keep your head up. your socal nator we never fail...for too long.

[banditscout]

Good luck with the build man! Way to think ahead, by buying a new block and what not. Planning is definitely key for when something like this happens. Every one of us here that mods these cars should have an emergency plan in place.

[hnda etr]

Originally Posted by phillyb fymn i actually read about half of that. got to the "good" and stopped. congrats roy. someone in socal had to be the first

Thanks Phil, but you're getting lazy... where's the "tl; dr; nce"? Does that mean U <3 Me?

Originally Posted by Fobio sorry to hear man...I didn't get the THE GOOD part... seemed like you did not adjust WGDC upon install of the EBCS? did you at least turn down WGDC by 30%? it don't matter no more, I know...but after running into spikes, I tuned from spring pressure with 0's across WGDC...hope maybe the next guy will read this before doing the same... I'm sure there's a lot more that went into this, but that'd be my first stab at it... also, what's you WGA preloaded at? mine was too high really at about 18 psi...so that made tuning even that much more difficult...and going on what Cobb wrote about in the first manual (I haven't even gotten around to reading the new one yet), tuning boost with old ATR was the most time intensive process.

Well, I guess the good is that I already have the parts and the block, so I don't have to come up with the money for that stuff right now...

The EBCS was installed a while ago, and was running perfectly with the stock K04 and Cld12pk's tune - after install, I dropped the entire WGDC by 20% and then Cld12pk tuned me from there... I should have dropped the WGDC before running with new SST hard, but it ran fine the night of install so I just didn't think of it at the time... my BIG bad...

I purchased the PG K04 around a year ago I'm guessing and at that time, sent if off to PTP for thermal coating and installation of the WGA. John installed the WGA and set it up for me - i think he said it had 1mm of preload...? or something like that... lol..

Originally Posted by DSIT995 All things considered, ur in an "ok" position as far as having another block and everything u need....... I say sell those wheels and do a mini part out of the non essentials & u will be back on the road in no time! GLWRB (good luck with re-build)

Yeah, that's what I have to keep telling myself - that it's not as bad as it could be... I really hate parting with the wheels, but looks like I'm gonna have to

Originally Posted by Haltech PTP WGA is the culprit i am guessing. No way any map is gonna allow hard boost at a blip of a throttle. The modified WGA along with the EBC ( wtf are you running a boost controller on a flash tune? ) are your contributing factors here. it sucks you blew Roy but this will teach people lesson about having to many variables and testing a new map without easing into it. Lets list rhe fails: Reworked turbo and no idea how it would react Modified WGS by PTP of all people Electronic Boost Control on a car that has proven Flash Tuning Ugh, you idiot! Anyhow, if you need someone to throw the engine together without fucking you in the ass, send me a PM.

The Grimmspeed EBCS worked great Kev... It's still managed by the factory ECU since it's not a standalone BCS.

I got the WGA almost a year ago.. before the whole PTP mess.... Also, it's got a ~14 lbs spring in it, so I figured if it failed, i would only be at 14psi...

Cld12pk and I were actually crossing emails... he sent me a map to try on my stock K04, at the same time I emailed and let him know about the new SST, then he sent me a new map with reduced values for the SST, but I had already popped on one of the older maps...

Will PM you now for engine builder ideas...

Originally Posted by predapio Sorry to hear, good luck with the rebuild.

Thanks bro!

Originally Posted by SilverDemon Sorry to hear about it man... If you were on the east coast I could put in a good word with my engine builder... Fantastic job and a great price...well, as good as can be expected.

Thanks Scott... hopefully you'll have some injector seals and RV ready for me before the motor rebuild is done eh? and intake maybe? lol can't hurt to try...

Also, if his price is a lot better than what I can find here, it may be worth sending to him lol...

Originally Posted by Speedn3 wow..sorry to hear this bro. sounds like you have a plan to get her back up and running. thumbs up for not parting her out.

Yeah, partout is something I don't want to do.. thanks!

Originally Posted by skeeter149 Hey bro keep your head up. your socal nator we never fail...for too long.

LOL almost true Skeet... Remember PhillyB? I'm still waiting for that nikka to raise up out of the gutter...

Originally Posted by banditscout Good luck with the build man! Way to think ahead, by buying a new block and what not. Planning is definitely key for when something like this happens. Every one of us here that mods these cars should have an emergency plan in place.

Thanks man! Yeah, I'm lucky I was planning on a build in the future lol... just not right now! I'm also lucky in the sense that I originally wanted to build a full drop in motor, from valve cover to oil pan.... The motor I got from Ken doesn't have cams and he can't find them, so at this point it doesn't matter though, since I won't be using my cams now...

[phillyb]

you know i care. i still owe you something, if you're stocking out, i gotta find you a downpipe. keep me updated either through pm or text, i prob won't check this thread very often.

[ZoomZoomPSSH]

well just keep going over "the good" section

it could be alot worse if u werent preparing...

good luck

[hnda etr]

Originally Posted by phillyb you know i care. i still owe you something, if you're stocking out, i gotta find you a downpipe. keep me updated either through pm or text, i prob won't check this thread very often.

probably wont be stocking out far enough to require that part... just get it to me when you can lol..

Originally Posted by ZoomZoomPSSH well just keep going over "the good" section it could be alot worse if u werent preparing... good luck

Werd!

[AtTheDriveIn]

Sorry to hear. I'm glad you got another motor so you're not in a terrible situation, but there's always the cost/time of building and swapping involved. Hey if you decide to get rid of the Volks shoot me a PM...

[Lex]

Shitty it went the way it did. Was the 24 psi on the gauge or just what the DH or AP read? The cuts and high boost eventually made it pack it in. You'll get it back together, just think it through and don't rush.

How many miles were on the motor?

[Dano]

As I already said. Very sorry to hear this bro!

[blaggah]

That sucks, I hate to hear that about a SoCal speed.

[hnda etr]

Originally Posted by AtTheDriveIn Sorry to hear. I'm glad you got another motor so you're not in a terrible situation, but there's always the cost/time of building and swapping involved. Hey if you decide to get rid of the Volks shoot me a PM...

True that! So far, from what I looked into, it'll run me from $1500 - $2000 for the assembly and machine work... Pulling and replacing the motor will be something I'll have to do...

Originally Posted by Lex Shitty it went the way it did. Was the 24 psi on the gauge or just what the DH or AP read? The cuts and high boost eventually made it pack it in. You'll get it back together, just think it through and don't rush. How many miles were on the motor?

The 24 psi is what I remember seeing on the DH Sunday night... I don't know how much PSI I was getting when I got the boost cut and unfortunately, I didn't think to log it... Motor had ~61500 on it... And not 61500 Lenny miles... normal, occasionally spirited miles... UOA showed a very healthy motor

Originally Posted by Dano2010 As I already said. Very sorry to hear this bro!

Thanks Dan!

Originally Posted by blaggah That sucks, I hate to hear that about a SoCal speed.

And I definitely hate being that SoCal speed

[IshiKage]

all i can say is Stock Turbo and Super Stock Turbo FTL

not sure why guys run SST's on stock internals motors. they are our turbos on roids which equals bad.

BT with stock internals = FTW

soory to hear about yoour loss but win is in your future

[driver311]

I feel your pain bro and Im sorry. Similar thing happened to me. I put a new map in and got on it right off the bat. Between that and a faulty stock pump I fell to the same outcome but only worse. Good things will come of it.

Ps. The Pg turbo and ptp wg were not the problems. It was just a bad combo of circumstance.

[hnda etr]

Originally Posted by 240mazspd3 all i can say is Stock Turbo and Super Stock Turbo FTL not sure why guys run SST's on stock internals motors. they are our turbos on roids which equals bad. BT with stock internals = FTW soory to hear about yoour loss but win is in your future

Yeah... I'll have to start thinking of how to sneak in and steal Lenny's 3071 after my build is done... Hmmm....

Originally Posted by driver311 I feel your pain bro and Im sorry. Similar thing happened to me. I put a new map in and got on it right off the bat. Between that and a faulty stock pump I fell to the same outcome but only worse. Good things will come of it. Ps. The Pg turbo and ptp wg were not the problems. It was just a bad combo of circumstance.

Thanks man... I wish I knew what WAS the problem though... I thought I might have popped a vacuum hose or something, but they all looked good... And Cld12pk was only targeting 22 psi in my maps...

[rodrigo]

u know what u have to do roy..... may not seem so dude but

built motor and less rice > stocker running ko4 + stage 4 rice


when the motor is built and your car is fast as balls u will agree with me....also, u need to not only figure out how much shit to sell to get that motor built, but how much more shit to sell to get a BT.... this is the time.

as my grampa used to say... go BT or go home

[hnda etr]

Originally Posted by lenny127 u know what u have to do roy..... may not seem so dude but built motor and less rice > stocker running ko4 + stage 4 rice when the motor is built and your car is fast as balls u will agree with me....also, u need to not only figure out how much shit to sell to get that motor built, but how much more shit to sell to get a BT.... this is the time. as my grampa used to say... go BT or go home

yeah yeah... but i have just the right amount of rice!

[rodrigo]

sometimes in life dude negatives force us to turn shit into a larger positive than before....but u gotta sacrifice shit along the way.

thats all im saying...

[hnda etr]

Originally Posted by lenny127 sometimes in life dude negatives force us to turn shit into a larger positive than before....but u gotta sacrifice shit along the way. thats all im saying...

Wurd..

[IshiKage]

i think it needs to be made clear to peeople who are thinking about going SST need to build their motor

[acmhd7]

Fuckin' lame Roy, well if ya need a helping hand just lemme know. As lenny said save yo pennies and go BT! Then your car will be as fast as it looks!

[rigor]

the question is when did you peak 24 psi? if at 1400 that would be bad,
but hell i ran around @ 26 psi for several weeks, and held that boost from 3500-7k many times on stock internals, no problems and did a compression test after the fact, 195 on all but #3 was 190 if i recall right...

but dont they trim those to boost later?
hmmm...
good luck man!

[Haltech]

SSt will kill a stock engine. to much torque down low, to quick. Its been common knowledge around here for 18 months.

Build the motor, go 35r and tear up some ass.

[blaggah]

hnda etr sell me that bnoon banjo bolt you just bought, since you don't need it now...

[Lex]

The stock MAP sensor caps out at 24psi. So it's likely you were actually spiking higher than that.

[rodrigo]

also, for those that say the new ko4 shouldnt have been boosting any diff...well.... let me tell u this, i boosted 2 psi higher using the new ko4 with the ported hotside and THE SAME WGA from my oem ko4....

so...anything is possible, the lesson to be learned is to NEVER get on it until u know the car wont overboost, i have spent the past 2 days trying lil by lil with my set up to see how the car reacts with roll in throttle , stabbing at throttle, diff rpms etc etc...

[06Speed6]

That really sucks, but at least you do have a good block, crank, and head. Rebuilds are alot cheaper when you dont grenade the whole thing.

[jracer]

Sorry to hear about this.. that sucks. But it looks like you have lots of parts to get running again. if i can help in any way ask..

[mazda.speed3]

Sucks to hear, good luck with the rebuild.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by lenny127 also, for those that say the new ko4 shouldn't have been boosting any diff...well.... let me tell u this, i boosted 2 psi higher using the new ko4 with the ported hotside and THE SAME WGA from my oem ko4....

Lenny, were you running EBC or MBC at this time? Just trying to learn a thing or two here.

an MBC wouldn't know the difference and would certainly over boost whereas and EBC has a target and would adjust, to a point.

[wankular]

My bank account thanks you for not parting out. Good luck with the rebuild.

[tbot]

Dude sorry to hear man, it sucks balls, I know the feeling! To be honest, you're in a way better position than I am in that you have all the parts. I don't have dick atm. Good luck w/ the build, and I hope that you're up and running sooner than I am. Keep us all posted.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by hnda etr ....I was logging this so I could send it to Cld12pk for review. Got a lot of stumbling/jerking like it was hitting some kind of load/fuel/boost cut... not sure. We tried it 2 times and got same results both times. .....shift to 3rd and floor it, lots of tire spin/squealing and what feels like boost cut - pop pop pop IIRC, although I'm kind of fuzzy on the exact details... Try it one more time and same thing happens...

^ this all sounds awful. The cutting could have very well been deto, and seems like a healthy dose. Your lucky to have a complete block man, congrats on that! And now you have an excuse to make your block much much stronger.