How bad is this-Oil everywhere

[scubasteve711]

Yeah the seals are on the wrong side of the pressure GL dude, my bet is on the guides like others and yourself have seemingly determined.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by Dano I don't totally disagree but it is extremely coincidental for this to happen a month after I cleaned the valves whereas before I had zero blow by out of my VC for 55K miles. Yes I added 3 PSI of boost after the cleaning and if the guide was already suspect the PSI increase just pushed it over the edge. The guide held the extra pressure for at least a few weeks, maybe a month but the time line is not precise. this does indeed beat a thrown rod. I am going to re-do my leakdown and comp check tonight as well as pull the VC and try to find out exactly where the air is coming from.

Its not anymore coincidental than guys blowing motors 30 days after installing BT's back in 2008/2009. You are blaming yourself for something you cannot even confirm.

[Dano]

haha very true but don't get me wrong, I am losing no sleep over my valve cleaning project nor am I losing sleep about the work ahead.

I am just trying to make sense of it and possibly help out others along the way. Lex knows of another guy that started having issues shortly after a valve cleaning so I think its good to gather data and see if things start to line up....it may take 6 months to find out but ya gotta start somewhere.

[Haltech]

Well, i have yet to see the stock seals on this car. So, perhaps, what ever chemicals you used for your valve cleaning, may have caused them to crack and dry out. You wont know this until you get them out to compare.

Otherwise, i'm going to go back to my original theory on the exhaust scavenging. Its happened to me in the past with long tube headers on an engine with less than 15K on it. Our idle vacuum is quite strong unless you idle the car above 900 RPM to break it.

[helmetface]

Originally Posted by Dano haha very true but don't get me wrong, I am losing no sleep over my valve cleaning project nor am I losing sleep about the work ahead.

Sorry to hear about your issues Dan, even more so that I can't contribute to finding a solution.

However, on the bright side- at least it isn't electrical..

[Dano]

It gets worse than a valve guide. I'm in denial ATM. Will sleep and hope to wake up in a better world.


Tappin

[Dano]

Well same world, same broke car but the light of day looks better

So a lesson I just learned and one worth passing along is to make sure your testing equipment is in good working order, even if it is brand new.

the leakdown tester I bought for this exact purpose was a POS General something I got from Harbor Freight. I may have just got a lemon and will take it back and try another but will likely get a MAC or other name brand gauge.

So long story short it would show little to zero leakdown even though the cylinder was in-fact leaking.

So I switched to my trusty compression tester and went to work.

cyl 1 = 180
cyl 2 = 178
cyl 4 = 180

but what do you think cyl 3 registered?


yup 145

AFAIK there can only be two things to cause this, bent rod [most probable] or missing ringland. Without any deto in the motor the second is highly unlikely and while turning the motor over by hand to get the cylinders to TDC, it would get hard to turn at certain points then release and almost spin freely.

I don't recall this happening the first time I performed the testes so it could be the rod bent during my most recent 10 or so WOT runs, but I can't be sure. As has been pointed out, it would make more sense for the pressure to get past the rings than a valve guide but that valve is def messed up as well.

so to sum up, my leisurely part gathering and planning has been drastically accelerated as I could start my car and back out of the driveway and throw the rod.

Also not sure about a drop in build at this point although IIRC dougfresh went through a similar scenario and just swapped out rods and pistons. I guess it just depends on how bent the rod is and if it damages the bearing, crank and or cylinder wall.

[TiGraySpeed6]

gonna measure height or pull the pan for visual inspection?

[Dano]

may measure height tonight if I get some time. I have a dial indicator I may rig up or gheto rig something

[Tokay444]

All you need is a stick and a marker.
I burn through a litre of oil every 1500kms.

[Dano]

haha yes that's like me to over think something.

is your piston height short in one cylinder?

[atvfreek]

To check piston height you don't even have to turn over the motor. Just compare companion cylinders. Only #3 cylinder is low on compression, so compare the height to #2 .

Doug's did score the upper part of the cylinder wall, but it was minor and we were able to hone it out

[Tokay444]

No. And my compression rocks.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by atvfreek To check piston height you don't even have to turn over the motor. Just compare companion cylinders. Only #3 cylinder is low on compression, so compare the height to #2 . Doug's did score the upper part of the cylinder wall, but it was minor and we were able to hone it out

so I couldn't tell shit for difference without going all in on the measurements.

Well here are the results:

The setup: 6" 3/8 extension with a 1/4-3/8 adapter. This keeps things centered in the plug opening.

The procedure: Got #2 cyl to TDC and zeroed the dial then measured both cylinders without touching the crank. Repeated on 1 & 4



So cyl 2 and 3 respectively...#3 is .005 higher then #2 Does this mean its bent and stretched?





and for comparison cyl 1 and 4 respectively only a .001 difference here but both higher than #2 which was the lowest of all.





not quite sure what to take away from this so I am all ears.

[djuosnteisn]

Lol, 5 thou is probably within the slop of the setup. It's not sounding bent really to me.

You can pull the oil pan maybe and have a look at em from below. A bore scope would be nice to look at the piston tops. I bought a cheap one off ebay, and it's far from ideal. It fits through the plug hole, but is too bulky to actually "have a look around".

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by Dano so I couldn't tell shit for difference without going all in on the measurements. Well here are the results: The setup: 6" 3/8 extension with a 1/4-3/8 adapter. This keeps things centered in the plug opening. The procedure: Got #2 cyl to TDC and zeroed the dial then measured both cylinders without touching the crank. Repeated on 1 & 4 So cyl 2 and 3 respectively...#3 is .005 higher then #2 Does this mean its bent and stretched? and for comparison cyl 1 and 4 respectively only a .001 difference here but both higher than #2 which was the lowest of all. not quite sure what to take away from this so I am all ears.

This is somewhat good news. #3 is definitely not bent. Did you try a wet compression test to see if the compression came up in that cylinder. Sorry, a little late to this thread. Oh the things you miss while sippin mai tais in Maui.

Freekn tappin

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Dano so I couldn't tell shit for difference without going all in on the measurements. Well here are the results: The setup: 6" 3/8 extension with a 1/4-3/8 adapter. This keeps things centered in the plug opening. The procedure: Got #2 cyl to TDC and zeroed the dial then measured both cylinders without touching the crank. Repeated on 1 & 4 So cyl 2 and 3 respectively...#3 is .005 higher then #2 Does this mean its bent and stretched? and for comparison cyl 1 and 4 respectively only a .001 difference here but both higher than #2 which was the lowest of all. not quite sure what to take away from this so I am all ears.

If the rod was really bent, I would expect a heck of a lot more delta that 0.005'' on height. More like 0.100''+.

I aSSuME that you do not feel any clutch pedal vibration, which would indicate some severe imbalance in the rotating assembly?

[rfinkle2]

@BlueStreak might be able to help with symptoms from his ringland issue if he is around.

[Dano]

I was thinking the same thing about the delta not being large enough and if you want to call all 4 measurements a control group then the difference in them all is +-.004 Hell it could be in the valve cover...lol

but I didn't want to jump to a positive conclusion just yet.

I did not perform a wet compression check...when I saw 145 I went and had a beer...or I mean a vodka tonic or 3

I did PM Bluestreak earlier today and his broken RL didn't even scratch the cylinder wall and his compression check was almost identical to mine with his #3 being 150 and the others 180.. so it may look like I can do my popNdrop build after all and may have just lost a ring land.

The plugs all look great and there is zero oil on the piston top..they all look the same.

edit: Oh and zero vibs on the clutch...motor runs like normal besides being down 20WHP and spewing oil into my VC OCC lol.

I'll pull the pan this weekend and hope to find large parts of piston laying in there...lol

[Dano]

Originally Posted by atvfreek This is somewhat good news. #3 is definitely not bent. Did you try a wet compression test to see if the compression came up in that cylinder. Sorry, a little late to this thread. Oh the things you miss while sippin mai tais in Maui. Freekn tappin

dood if only I were on Kauai....went there 5 years ago on our honeymoon....it is truly paradise.

[btstarcher]

I have a set of genpu pistons layin' around if you end up needing them.

[Dano]

if only they would fit a set of real rods

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by Dano dood if only I were on Kauai....went there 5 years ago on our honeymoon....it is truly paradise.

Here you go sir. If you can't be in paradise, I will bring it to you
uploadfromtaptalk1349313638207.jpg

Freekn tappin

[Lex]

Dan, when doing the leakdown test where was the pressure coming from? Crankcase or exhaust/intake in cyl 3?

[Dano]

haha

I was just having a beer with a buddy and discussed that...I wasn't really paying attention at that point cuz the gauge was being a POS. I need to pressurize #3 again at TDC and take a listen around.

So my weekend tasks will be to get a gasket and pull the oil pan, and try to determine where the pressure is going. I seriously doubt the valve seats are bad but you never know. With all the 25PSI WOT runs I got to believe its the rings/lands

BTW @Lex what say you about the bent rod theory or do you want the leak results first?

Originally Posted by atvfreek Here you go sir. If you can't be in paradise, I will bring it to you Attachment 76334 Freekn tappin

I'd like to add a groan to my thank

[Dano]

and just another thought I had tonight while checking things and the fog of war with my motor was beginning to lift.....for now.

my oiling issue started before my JBR intake install months ago. For a minute, lets just assume the cause has not changed since then until proven otherwise and riddle me this?

since then I have put probably 30-40 WOT runs from 2500-6800RPMs on the car, many with copious amounts of oil being ingested into the motor . If the rod were bent I have to believe it would have given up by now....no?

[Lex]

Oil pan uses RTV, no gasket Do the leakdown test again an have a listen. Generally heavy leaking into the crankcase should be due to rings/rainglands or tweaked rod although the rod height in your case looks good.

[BlueStreak]

^^^ I'd say.

For sure you would've at least noticed a vibrating clutch pedal within that period.

We're brothers now, Dano. United by a cracked ringland (possibly). It was getting lonely out here. Haha.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Lex Oil pan uses RTV, no gasket Do the leakdown test again an have a listen. Generally heavy leaking into the crankcase should be due to rings/rainglands or tweaked rod although the rod height in your case looks good.

There was some heavy air leakage fo show on #3 just don't know exactly where it was going...some def into the CC as it was coming out of my VC>OCC vent

oh an I = noob on pulling the pan.

Originally Posted by BlueStreak ^^^ I'd say. For sure you would've at least noticed a vibrating clutch pedal within that period. We're brothers now, Dano. United by a cracked ringland (possibly). It was getting lonely out here. Haha.

my brother from another country...meh but true none the less

I hope that is all it is. Guess I could go out, warm the car up and put her on the LC, let the clutch go and see what happens...

BRB

[BlueStreak]

What's the word on the suspect valve then, Dano?

[Dano]

it still has a bad guide or seal no doubt so to me it looks like I was facing two different issues.

The valve could have been that way for months or years but I don't recall it looking any worse than all the others back a few months when I cleaned them so who knows. It did get that bad looking in around 3-4k miles so I would lean toward the issue occurring fairly recently.

[Dano]

is this thing working?

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by Dano is this thing working?

Yes sir it is. lol. Do we have a confirmed diagnosis?

[Dano]

can't seem to post my findings...only one line otherwise Apache memory errors.

lol
@Haltech



rods are fine...visibly straight... checked side clearance which was within spec... must be ringland....

[802MS3]

php error...what are you trying to upload.

Kev, I'm sure you know what to do ha. here is a guess, bump these up in php.ini?

memory_limit = 32M
upload_max_filesize = 10M
post_max_size = 20M

[Dano]

just txt...more than 2 lines and no go...even tried in other threads.

maybe more than one way to skin a cat.

[802MS3]

yea thats a strange one if its only text, no way it could actually be hitting a limit. very strange. but glad to see that it doesn't seem to be a bent rod.

[SPEED6 KILLAH]

what was your leak down test on cylinder #3
also I seen you did a compression tester #3 it was 145
Put some tran fuild in it cyl 3 then do a compression tester see if the goes up.
try putting a bore scope in to the cylinder to see what happen.

NOte: when doing a compression tester hold press down on the gas pedal

[Dano]

Originally Posted by SPEED6 KILLAH what was your leak down test on cylinder #3 also I seen you did a compression tester #3 it was 145 Put some tran fuild in it cyl 3 then do a compression tester see if the goes up. try putting a bore scope in to the cylinder to see what happen. NOte: when doing a compression tester hold press down on the gas pedal

my leakdown tester was a Harbor Freight piece of shit so I don't know the exact percentage but it was horrible.

Have not performed a wet comp check...really don't care at this point, motor needs built

Dustin has a cheep e-bay scope but its too large to move around once you get it in there so I don't really have that option. would be nice to see what the walls look like before teardown.

[NJSPEED3]

damn so #3 is low compression and you have a leaky valve guide seal?

How did you test the valve guide/seal again, Sorry?