Installed Denso ITV22... Read my OEM Plugs!!

[AutoXRacer]

So last night I installed Denso ITV22s in hopes to reduce my knock I'm experiencing.

I removed the stock plugs and I would like to get some feed back on their condition. They roughly have a little short of 27K miles...

Plug # 1





Plug #2





Plug #3





Plug #4





If I remember correctly, the red indicates buring additives...? A couple of thousand miles ago, I did run two bottles of NOS Octane Booster-race formula.

Thanks for the help guys...

The Denso ITV22s did reduce my knocking slightly...I'm still getting 2.0-3.5 alerts on 4th-5th gear pulls for a second or three.
It's less than I was getting yesterday...though I did decrease my boost though; due to weather cooling off.

[Laloosh]

worn abused and rich
the white specs are signs of detonations...ng

[Lymerock]

happen to check the gap of the old plugs?
they look good from what i can tell (with the exception of the additive coloring), but there seems to be a c hair of dry fouling on each which can sometimes be due to the resistance of the plug changing.
if you removed em at 27k, it would be possible that the gap grew .03-.06mm which may explain it
or have you ever experienced spark blowout? that could also be a cause

There is some pitting on all 4, especially on the ground electrode, but thats normal on any hard working engine. Plug gets hot from the spark, small bits blow away, life goes on
in theory, running a step colder plug should reduce that

[Lymerock]

Originally Posted by Laloosh worn abused and rich the white specs are signs of detonations...ng

how can you predict det from a macro photo? most people use a magnyfying glass

the Volvo V-8's I service at work (GM 454's and 502's) have plugs that look almost exactly the same, its possible im reading them wrong (quite possible), but I've been under the impression that was normal behavior
we are dealing with combustion afterall

[Buildabong]

my Bosch +2 looked like that after 2 weeks!! So I ordered denzo =D and my stock plugs look good. But damn what the hell happened to urs? Lol mine have 24k on them lol

[Laloosh]

Originally Posted by Lymerock how can you predict det from a macro photo? most people use a magnyfying glass

anytime i see shiny white specs, its signs of detonation

[AutoXRacer]

And detonation is....? Is that the same as Knock...?

IIRC, detonation is when the mixture ignites before its supposed to...?

Edit 9:11am:

From wikipedia: Detonation in reciprocating engines (sometimes called engine knock) is the uncontrolled supersonic explosion of the fuel-air charge, and may be caused by excessively high combustion chamber temperatures. High compression ratios or high temperatures can cause the flame speed of combustion to exceed the sound barrier, resulting in an explosion or detonation and a pressure shockwave. Detonations are extremely destructive to common piston engines, and may result in mechanical deformation of the cylinder walls, piston rings, holes blown through the top of pistons, or cracks in cylinder heads. Detonation can also burn out a spark plug, reducing or eliminating its ability to produce a spark. Detonation is most destructive if it occurs during times in which the explosion forces the piston downwards while it is traveling upwards, which relates to engine timing.

What should I do here...? Whats my mitigation plan?
Are my plugs really that bad?

I did notice last night while running the new plugs that the car was pulling great. Harder than usual, but I just thought that was do to the cooler temps.

[Lymerock]

Originally Posted by Laloosh anytime i see shiny white specs, its signs of detonation

i grabbed my stock plugs to give em a look, and on second glance

they do look pretty shitty hahah
ill put up a pic of what they prolly should look like




hrm... i think fomoco plugs suck, i see some pitting looking shit in the pics, but in my hand they look great

[bnoon]

Originally Posted by AutoXRacer And detonation is....? Is that the same as Knock...? IIRC, detonation is when the mixture ignites before its supposed to...?

Yes, detonation = knock = pre-ignition. Reduce the knock and power will increase do to getting the fuel to burn when it's supposed to burn and not before. If you're still seeing knock, you may want to have some timing pulled or go 2 steps colder than stock to see which one works better for you.

[Laloosh]

lym...your plugs are what my plugs looked like

[Lymerock]

Originally Posted by Laloosh lym...your plugs are what my plugs looked like

i think im a bit retarded
i meant autoxracer's plugs looked shittier than I originally thought
i assumed my plugs were what good/used plugs should look like, but im happy you confirmed it

[Buildabong]

Laloosh u know where I can find a nissan sentra at? Like a 90' sentra 2 door? Or anybody....

[AutoXRacer]

Damn, spend another $45 on plugs...this sucks....though beats having to buy an engine.
I can't pull timing since I'm only on stock ECU; no piggy.

Right now I'm getting 2.5 knock for a couple of seconds at 18-19 PSI.

I'll just lower my boost and work on getting 2 step colder plugs.

[AutoXRacer]

Originally Posted by Buildabong Laloosh u know where I can find a nissan sentra at? Like a 90' sentra 2 door? Or anybody....

[Buildabong]

hahaha don't hate! But then again my plugs went out in 2weeks at 19psi. =(

And when I build the sentra yall shall fear it!!

[AutoXRacer]

Originally Posted by Lymerock happen to check the gap of the old plugs?

No... They were the same as the new Denso...

Originally Posted by Lymerock if you removed em at 27k, it would be possible that the gap grew .03-.06mm which may explain it or have you ever experienced spark blowout? that could also be a cause

What does spark blowout feel like...? I don't know if I've ever experienced it.

Need need those damned Sniper coils!!!!!

[bova]

spark blow out feels similiar to a stutter, at least thats how it felt for me when i installed plugs that were not gapped correctly, my fault for not checking but PG's fault for telling me they gapped them correctly for me before they sent(i had asked if they would).

[AutoXRacer]

Nah, then I've never had spark blowout...

Thanks!!

[Darksun280]

I told you it would reduce the knock you have but only up to a point depending on what kinda boost your running.

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by AutoXRacer Nah, then I've never had spark blowout... Thanks!!

you can hear spark blow out no doubt about it car cuts and you can hear it puff out the exhaust with the windows down even on stock exhaust. what are the new plugs gaped at?

[AutoXRacer]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 you can hear spark blow out no doubt about it car cuts and you can hear it puff out the exhaust with the windows down even on stock exhaust. what are the new plugs gaped at?

You can hear it? I did hear some kind of puff out the exhaust where it felt like the car had a slight misfire or something. But it only happens once or twice then it disappears. It only happens when I work on the car/change something/raise boost. Maybe thats spark blowout...??? Where are those damn Sniper coils!!??

I have no clue what the new ones were gapped to since I did not have anything to measure them with. I did put them inline with the stock ones and they matched identically. So I figured it was OK.

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by AutoXRacer You can hear it? I did hear some kind of puff out the exhaust where it felt like the car had a slight misfire or something. But it only happens once or twice then it disappears. It only happens when I work on the car/change something/raise boost. Maybe thats spark blowout...??? Where are those damn Sniper coils!!?? I have no clue what the new ones were gapped to since I did not have anything to measure them with. I did put them inline with the stock ones and they matched identically. So I figured it was OK.

yup THATS spark blow out. Im gapped at 28 now on ngks which i got in the spring and with the cold weather rolling in my 22 psi is starting to get it in 2nd gear. these ngks suck or i need a stronger spark.

[AutoXRacer]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 yup THATS spark blow out. Im gapped at 28 now on ngks which i got in the spring and with the cold weather rolling in my 22 psi is starting to get it in 2nd gear. these ngks suck or i need a stronger spark.

Stronger spark FTW!!!!!

I wish we could use some type of MSD coil or something...

Hey, when I was removing the coils, they had Ford part numbers, does that mean somewhere in the aftermarket world someone makes Ford upgraded coils? Why couldn't we use those instead?

[bova]

should be getting my denso's soon.

[Lex]

Turn that boost down ... it does seem that loosh is right about the detonation. Those white specs were once part of your pistons.

[AutoXRacer]

Originally Posted by Lex Turn that boost down ... it does seem that loosh is right about the detonation. Those white specs were once part of your pistons.

GTFO!!! Are you serious?

I only run 18-19 PSI...peaked at 20 PSI yesterday morning due to cooler weather. I guess I should go back to the stock boost control...

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by AutoXRacer GTFO!!! Are you serious? I only run 18-19 PSI...peaked at 20 PSI yesterday morning due to cooler weather. I guess I should go back to the stock boost control...

I told you I knocked with anyhting above 17 psi in 4th gear and up when i didn't have meth. Then i ran octane booster and 100 octane for a month and a half Wallet got beat up and just decided to go with meth. stock turbo at 19 will give you knock on this car with no tunning.

[skeeter149]

Originally Posted by Buildabong Laloosh u know where I can find a nissan sentra at? Like a 90' sentra 2 door? Or anybody....

SR20 Forum
www.sr20-forum.com(yes its a different one)

[AutoXRacer]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 I told you I knocked with anyhting above 17 psi in 4th gear and up when i didn't have meth. Then i ran octane booster and 100 octane for a month and a half Wallet got beat up and just decided to go with meth. stock turbo at 19 will give you knock on this car with no tunning.

So if I get the Standback and tune...will I be able to run 18 PSI without destroying my pistons...?

[AutoXRacer]

Originally Posted by skeeter149 SR20 Forum www.sr20-forum.com(yes its a different one)

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by AutoXRacer So if I get the Standback and tune...will I be able to run 18 PSI without destroying my pistons...?

Yeah but thats tuner defendant if you dont know what your doing you might just make it worse BUT lower boost and taking away timing all these things can stop knock. No you see the wall I hit and figured a 180 dollar meth kit was cheaper

[AutoXRacer]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 Yeah but thats tuner defendant if you dont know what your doing you might just make it worse BUT lower boost and taking away timing all these things can stop knock. No you see the wall I hit and figured a 180 dollar meth kit was cheaper

Yeah, but how often do you have to fill that meth reservoir? I can't imagine constantly carrying 2-3 gallons of meth around.

[Lex]

An FMIC really helps as well. Or running some E10 fuel.

[AutoXRacer]

I now wish I would have gone with the 2 step colder plugs...

Anyone want to buy 1 step colder plugs with 70 miles on them...?

[bnoon]

Originally Posted by Lex An FMIC really helps as well. Or running some E10 fuel.

Or better yet, an air/water intercooler.

Originally Posted by AutoXRacer I now wish I would have gone with the 2 step colder plugs... Anyone want to buy 1 step colder plugs with 70 miles on them...?

What?!!?! After you went out and pinged all over them already? Ewwwwwwww!

[AutoXRacer]

Originally Posted by bnoon What?!!?! After you went out and pinged all over them already? Ewwwwwwww!

Pinged...? Those were my old plugs...

[oskinosmee]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 Yeah but thats tuner defendant if you dont know what your doing you might just make it worse BUT lower boost and taking away timing all these things can stop knock. No you see the wall I hit and figured a 180 dollar meth kit was cheaper

180 dollar meth kit wtf I paid like 400 for mine i feel ripped

I feel my meth bottle once a week if that much and thats with it set to come on at 12psi

[AutoXRacer]

Originally Posted by oskinosmee 180 dollar meth kit wtf I paid like 400 for mine i feel ripped I feel my meth bottle once a week if that much and thats with it set to come on at 12psi

Is your car a daily driver? I do approx 80-90 miles a day...plus autocross on the weekends and occasional short day road trips.

How much is the gallon of meth? Damn, that sounds like I'm talking about a controlled substance...

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by AutoXRacer Yeah, but how often do you have to fill that meth reservoir? I can't imagine constantly carrying 2-3 gallons of meth around.

mine comes on at 17 psi and I use 1 $10 bottle permonth is what im averaging. Only time i spent more was when i fucked up my line and was spraying it underneath my hood and wondered how i killed a bottle in a day lol.

[AutoXRacer]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 mine comes on at 17 psi and I use 1 $10 bottle permonth is what im averaging. Only time i spent more was when i fucked up my line and was spraying it underneath my hood and wondered how i killed a bottle in a day lol.

Hmm...thats not bad...interesting... So what kit are you running now...?