Installed Denso ITV22... Read my OEM Plugs!!

[Haltech]

Methanol really should be ran in this car straight. Im almost done with my methanol article on this car to show you what i mean....

In the meantime, take this as general information... unlike N/A cars which arent force inducted by the factory, their intercooler systems arent exactly the greatest in the kits. Now, i know with aftermarket turbos, they are ok, but ive never added an aftermarket turbo, just superchargers. So, their intercooling systems pretty much suck when you compare them to a turbo kit. So, based on my experience, this is where the following information comes from.

A very efficient intercooler system only needs more 100% methanol to obtain higher boost & timing levels, with absolutely no detonation/knock, while still cooling the intake charge. When you see people add water to their mixture, its to help remove heat. The water molecules reduce in size, but increase in numbers to wick the heat away before it enters the upper intake. This is used for systems that have poor intercoolers, usually supercharged vehicles.

If you run a Devil's Own kit, you can use 100% methanol with absolutely no fear of ruining the pump or the lines/nozzle. They cannot advertise this because... by law, they are not allowed. Ive used every methanol kit out there and Devil's Own is the best out there, that is why they are a vendor here, opposed to others who asked to be and i told them no.

Looking at your plugs, it almost looks like you used Torco in your fuel system to bring the octane up. Do yourself a favor... BUY a methanol injection system. You can go cheap if the cost of methanol is a concern by using the Walmart Washer Fluid which is nearly 100% methanol for like $1/gal. I posted this information in the Meth/Nitrous/Fuel area of the board as a sticky, so i hope you get a chance to read it.

[AutoXRacer]

Wow, thanks Haltech...really helpful...

Is this really the only solution for this car to run 18-19 PSI safely?

My next purchase is the StandBack...CP-E is urging me to tune the car...saying the car needs a tune really bad. Do you think my problems will be solved with some tuning?
I now you don't personally endorse the StandBack, but let's just say tuning in general.

All I want to do really is run 18-19PSI without knock...and without knock while cruising...

Thanks again for the post...really, really helpful and tempting...

[Haltech]

in Ca, we at the mercy of methanol because we have probably, the worst fuel, out of any of the available states and the largest amount of crooked ass gas stations who do the occasional garden hose with flowing water into their tanks late at night to make some "profit".

Quick run down on what happened to me about 10 yrs ago... I had a very nice, built mustang... i had roughly $13K in the build of this car.. pushing 540ish on 92 octane gas... i knew local Chevron opened up by my house and they were about .11 cents cheaper a gallon. So, i began to use them... i had a really fat tune while my engine was breaking in and never ran the car hard.

Once the motor was broken in, i had it tuned by a local EEC-V tuner, who is a true wizard and can dial a car in within 3 pulls. I was happy.. i made 583 on 92 with a AFR in 11.1 range through the entire rpm band... I never deviated from where i got my fuel.. about 5 weeks later, my engine blew.. I heard alight detonation and before i could do anything about it, she was done.

i was very upset because this tune was perfect. I pulled the plugs and saw a lot of white on the electrode and green speckles... i was like, WTF? i also had a crane system in the car i was using for datalogging purposes... good thing too, because my wideband was recording.

Car spiked 13.22 AFR at WOT when it let go... so i had the fuel sent out to be analyzed... it came back, 84 octane... hmm.. wtf? so i began a spy mission on the station.. i observed a middle eastern man, tossing a garden hose in the tanks for 30 mins in each tank every other night.. i took video and pictures.. called CA-BAR and the station was shutdown and fined.. They also gave me an undocumented amount of money to repair my car.

Soo, what am i getting at? dont always be quick to assume that the liquid gold you are pumping into your car at the octane value posted, is the real deal.. you NEED a backup solution. Methanol provides this... If this was an NA car, it would be a different story.

Im not a fan of piggybacks and i think everyone knows this. Laloosh has had good luck with the thing while tuning methanol with it. He could probably help you out if this is the route you choose to go. Its not a cheap route and a stage 2 solution will work just as well at a lower price point. If you feel you would rather tune your car and feel a piggy system works to meet your goal, than by all means, go for it. Whichever you choose, just be sure you have you safety blanket on the car by getting a methanol system installed and a CDFP upgrade.

Originally Posted by AutoXRacer Wow, thanks Haltech...really helpful... Is this really the only solution for this car to run 18-19 PSI safely? My next purchase is the StandBack...CP-E is urging me to tune the car...saying the car needs a tune really bad. Do you think my problems will be solved with some tuning? I now you don't personally endorse the StandBack, but let's just say tuning in general. All I want to do really is run 18-19PSI without knock...and without knock while cruising... Thanks again for the post...really, really helpful and tempting...

[Lex]

Truth. I am having a very similar problem with a Chevron by my house where their 94 is below 90 if I were to guess. Who could I report them to?

Originally Posted by Haltech in Ca, we at the mercy of methanol because we have probably, the worst fuel, out of any of the available states and the largest amount of crooked ass gas stations who do the occasional garden hose with flowing water into their tanks late at night to make some "profit". Quick run down on what happened to me about 10 yrs ago... I had a very nice, built mustang... i had roughly $13K in the build of this car.. pushing 540ish on 92 octane gas... i knew local Chevron opened up by my house and they were about .11 cents cheaper a gallon. So, i began to use them... i had a really fat tune while my engine was breaking in and never ran the car hard. Once the motor was broken in, i had it tuned by a local EEC-V tuner, who is a true wizard and can dial a car in within 3 pulls. I was happy.. i made 583 on 92 with a AFR in 11.1 range through the entire rpm band... I never deviated from where i got my fuel.. about 5 weeks later, my engine blew.. I heard alight detonation and before i could do anything about it, she was done. i was very upset because this tune was perfect. I pulled the plugs and saw a lot of white on the electrode and green speckles... i was like, WTF? i also had a crane system in the car i was using for datalogging purposes... good thing too, because my wideband was recording. Car spiked 13.22 AFR at WOT when it let go... so i had the fuel sent out to be analyzed... it came back, 84 octane... hmm.. wtf? so i began a spy mission on the station.. i observed a middle eastern man, tossing a garden hose in the tanks for 30 mins in each tank every other night.. i took video and pictures.. called CA-BAR and the station was shutdown and fined.. They also gave me an undocumented amount of money to repair my car. Soo, what am i getting at? dont always be quick to assume that the liquid gold you are pumping into your car at the octane value posted, is the real deal.. you NEED a backup solution. Methanol provides this... If this was an NA car, it would be a different story. Im not a fan of piggybacks and i think everyone knows this. Laloosh has had good luck with the thing while tuning methanol with it. He could probably help you out if this is the route you choose to go. Its not a cheap route and a stage 2 solution will work just as well at a lower price point. If you feel you would rather tune your car and feel a piggy system works to meet your goal, than by all means, go for it. Whichever you choose, just be sure you have you safety blanket on the car by getting a methanol system installed and a CDFP upgrade.

[Haltech]

Well, in California, we have the Bureau of Automotive Repair, who govern all smog stations, test only stations and general repair stations/gas stations.

So, when you have an issue, we report them to this agency. Im not sure of other states, but they should have a similar system in place.

Bureau of Automotive Repair, State of California, Dept. of Consumer Affairs

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by AutoXRacer Hmm...thats not bad...interesting... So what kit are you running now...?

devils onstage 1 with do3 nozzel

[AutoXRacer]

So I ordered a new set of plugs... ITV24, 2 step colder...

On my last autocross event (2 day event) I was experiencing knock coming off the track and cruising track side to stage back up to run. They engine was knocking on very light part throttle. I suspected the spark plugs must have been super hot and causing detonation...57 seconds of WOT 2nd gear in 95* weather might do that...? With intake temps of 130 and bats around 150-160...? I get heat soak while waiting to get staged to run my lap... I know, I know, I need a FMIC!!!! Maybe Santa will hear my crys...

Anyway, I'll be installing these this weekend... I'll post pictures and info and see if these help at all... Last night while inspecting them, I noticed how recessed the spark plug is in itself... Wow, the tip is actually inside the threaded walls...

I'll post pictures...

[Frequentflyer]

Sub'ing. I ordered ITV24's by accident off Ebay. Thought I was ordering the 22's, but too late now. Hopefully they're not too "cold".

[AutoXRacer]

Originally Posted by Frequentflyer Sub'ing. I ordered ITV24's by accident off Ebay. Thought I was ordering the 22's, but too late now. Hopefully they're not too "cold".

They seem a little too cold during start up since the car runs rough...but once its warmed up, its fine. I thought you would have to go to 3 step colder to experience start up roughness...

Just to reiterate, the ITV24 do make the engine run rough when cold (initial start up) until the engine is warm...

I have definitely seen a reduction in knock though. Under boost running 18 PSI, I have yet to see any...though its a little too soon to cheer...need a few more days of driving. It seemed to have done nothing regarding the unloaded Knock though (the crazy random part throttle Knock).

[AutoXRacer]

Just fyi, I've been running Denso ITV24 for the past couple of days and my random knock has greatly reduced!!! I don't want to jinx myself, but damn, I've only gotten like 2 alerts in the past two days!!!

The only changes I've done are installing a Standback (all zeroed) and the 2 step colder plugs...

[Frequentflyer]

Good to know. My ITV24's are in the mail, but I'm probably going to sell them before I even try to install them. I tried to get them to send me the 22's when I realized I ordered the wrong ones, but it was too late, so $38 down the tubes for now. I really don't want to deal with a rough idle, especially with winter approaching.

[AutoXRacer]

Originally Posted by Frequentflyer Good to know. My ITV24's are in the mail, but I'm probably going to sell them before I even try to install them. I tried to get them to send me the 22's when I realized I ordered the wrong ones, but it was too late, so $38 down the tubes for now. I really don't want to deal with a rough idle, especially with winter approaching.

I say keep the ITV24 and install them!!! My morning temps this morning was 46* and the car fired up like normal and did not have rough idle. I think the ECU was still settling itself when I first cranked the car with the ITV24s.

I no longer get rough idle. Its back to normal. And my Knock is almost non-exsistant. Though I still get a little random knock around the 3-4k rpm range at part throttle. But much less than before with the ITV22s.

I say, don't sell them and install them!!! Give them a couple of days!!!

[Frequentflyer]

Well, then maybe I'll try'm and if they don't work, save them for a rainy day. I don't have quite the extensive mods you do, which is why I figured the 22's would be better for now.

[AutoXRacer]

Here is a comparison of all three plugs...

From the left, ITV24 - ITV22 (this is what they look like after a few hundred miles) - Stock OEM...

[dcs191919]

My stock plugs look like the middle set... I only have 3000 miles though

[Frequentflyer]

Hmmm... ITV22's don't look much different, if any, than OEM. Can't believe they put that FoMoCo crap in this car.

[AutoXRacer]

Sad news to report... The mystery KR has returned...

It always hits exactly in the mid 3K rpm range at very light to part throttle conditions...

Though, my WOT boosted conditions have improved greatly...I get no knock!!! Not even 2.0!!! WAHOO!!! Lets see how this works out this weekend at the autocross event...