Intake valve cleaning machine?

[sidekick]

I talked to a mechanic that my parents take their car to earlier about intake valve cleaning. He said that they use a machine that doesn't require the removal of the intake manifold and they basically run a chemical through the engine while it is running. I've searched here and googled it, but I haven't found anything about this. It's only $150 and I don't have time to do the valve cleaning myself right now, but with 50K miles, I'm assuming it needs to be done.

I thought it was required to pull the manifold to really get them clean. Has anyone heard of this or used this method before? How effective is it?

[dpolseno41]

Let me google that for you

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by dpolseno41 Let me google that for you

Yeah it's not seafoam, but nice try. I do happen to know what seafoam is... He said they use some kind of machine. This was all over the phone though, so maybe there was some miscommunication.

[JWSpeedWorkz]

It sounds like he may be talking about a motor-vac or bg or jb canister. Either way, its not gonna get it really clean. If its a motor-vac, it actually will do nothing for you at all, since its direct injected.

[sidekick]

Perhaps he missed the part where I said direct injected, so I guess I'll have to give him a call tomorrow and find out.

[JWSpeedWorkz]

I don't doubt that they have a machine to do it, but I'm a mechanic, and I know how ridiculously stubborn carbon buildup can be. So you can try the 150$ route and get likely minimal results, or have em take the mani off and do it right. It really is the only way to get them clean.
Not trying to piss on your rainbow, just speaking from experience.

[Dano]

it took me a B12 soaking + walnut media blast to get my valves clean. ran a Catch Can for 30 of the 50 k miles before the job.

that's the only way to do it and get as clean as new.

[dpolseno41]

Or just spray meth, its crazy how clean it gets them and keeps them.

[Dano]

um...with respect I disagree....been spraying huge amounts of 100% meth #7 since around 20K miles and for the last 6 months a #10 nozzle...valves were ugly.

keep in mind that you are only spraying meth like .01 % of the time the engine is running.

[dpolseno41]

Originally Posted by Dano um...with respect I disagree....been spraying huge amounts of 100% meth #7 since around 20K miles and for the last 6 months a #10 nozzle...valves were ugly. keep in mind that you are only spraying meth like .01 % of the time the engine is running.

Respect? This is MSF, that doesn't exist Sir.

[Dano]

Hahahh

Yes it is a rare thing for sure.

Now GTFO


Better?
Tappin

[dpolseno41]

Originally Posted by Dano Hahahh Yes it is a rare thing for sure. Now GTFO Better? Tappin

Ahhh, you have calmed my heart now. But in all seriousness I recently hosted a valve cleaning session and my valves were still dirty as fuck but not nearly as bad as others at similar mileage. I had only sprayed a gallon of denatured alcohol previous to that. No OCC or EGR delete either. I was impressed.

[Cheeto]

Yeah, I hate to say it but taking the IM off, back cleaning it, cleaning your Thorotle body, if you have one remove clean and lube the pesky EGR. Then B12/Walnut media blast/B12 again with scrub brushes and picks, vacume and clean up a massive mess. Add 2-TIGs 1-IM and 1-TB, put her all back together with correct torque specs. And your golden. Major pain in the ass but I bet it better then that $150 clean job. And all in all you will spend about the same cause your labor is free

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by Cheeto Yeah, I hate to say it but taking the IM off, back cleaning it, cleaning your Thorotle body, if you have one remove clean and lube the pesky EGR. Then B12/Walnut media blast/B12 again with scrub brushes and picks, vacume and clean up a massive mess. Add 2-TIGs 1-IM and 1-TB, put her all back together with correct torque specs. And your golden. Major pain in the ass but I bet it better then that $150 clean job. And all in all you will spend about the same cause your labor is free

My labor is free, but I don't have much free time currently and I can't have the car down for more than a day because it is my DD. I'll look into this a little more and I'll probably end up doing it myself when I have a little more time.

[Dano]

If you're good its still a one day job.

[Cheeto]

Roll it in two stages, buy all your B/12 search here on the forum for Walnut media blast gear. Order your Tigs, when you get all this in and are ready then date it for stage two. Early out of work one day Friday then you got all weekend. I am a big fan of taking your time and doing it right. Your car and yourself will fill so much better.
Friend of mine would say "if your going to do it, do it right".

Good luck bro.
What ever you do take some before/after pics and post. We all love that.

[Dano]

lol

or go the extra mile...my weekend project list included:

VCTS delte and fill
PNP IM and TB
Paint
TB coolant bypass
injector seals
2150 HPRV
valve cleaning via B12 + media blast.

[Cheeto]

Shit, might as well throw on a 3076 and port and polish........

[Evan@COBB]

Originally Posted by Dano lol or go the extra mile...my weekend project list included: VCTS delte and fill PNP IM and TB Paint TB coolant bypass injector seals 2150 HPRV valve cleaning via B12 + media blast.

I am not envious of your weekend...at all.

However, it does make me feel lazy considering how much crap I need to get done to my car under the hood.

Thanks for that...jackass.

[Ayaritz]

I used to work at Valvoline, and what he may be referring to is a "fuel system cleaning", we did the same thing there. Basically they just hook up concentrated sea-foam like cleaning agent that burns at a high temperature and introduce that via a positive vacuum source (ie brake booster on most cars) while the car is running with a dripper. Depending on how dirty their shit was it would blow a pretty violent smoke cloud from the tailpipe (burning carbon... they say...) But your not supposed to do this on turbo-charged vehicles, for obvious reasons. I can just about guarantee its the same thing they're talking about. They charge $69.99 for it. But I would not recommend doing it to your car... I've seen what it does. Many times. Clean it the right way.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Evan@COBB I am not envious of your weekend...at all. However, it does make me feel lazy considering how much crap I need to get done to my car under the hood. Thanks for that...jackass.

hahahaha

how do you look yourself in the mirror each day?

it really wasn't all that bad...plenty of beer breaks while the B12 was doing its work and my compressor was catching up to all the grinding on the IM.

BTW this was months ago so you are further behind than you think

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by Ayaritz I used to work at Valvoline, and what he may be referring to is a "fuel system cleaning", we did the same thing there. Basically they just hook up concentrated sea-foam like cleaning agent that burns at a high temperature and introduce that via a positive vacuum source (ie brake booster on most cars) while the car is running with a dripper. Depending on how dirty their shit was it would blow a pretty violent smoke cloud from the tailpipe (burning carbon... they say...) But your not supposed to do this on turbo-charged vehicles, for obvious reasons. I can just about guarantee its the same thing they're talking about. They charge $69.99 for it. But I would not recommend doing it to your car... I've seen what it does. Many times. Clean it the right way.

Please elaborate, what does this do? I seafoamed my intake manifold after I did the manual cleaning and no smoke came out at all.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Dano lol or go the extra mile...my weekend project list included: VCTS delte and fill PNP IM and TB Paint TB coolant bypass injector seals 2150 HPRV valve cleaning via B12 + media blast.

Dano is that 2150 valve gonna jive with atr? AFAIK, there has been nothing but issues with that valve due to atr's 2074 reading cutoff.

[Ayaritz]

Its not exactly seafoam, its a concentrated something or another that just burns at a very high temperature and burns the shit in the combustion chamber. The smoke is just a result of the carbon and build up exiting. Some cars that aren't that dirty didn't smoke at all. Just smelled of ass.

[mzr0818]

BMW uses a walnut shell blaster. I am interested in seeing the new one we are getting. The old machine there was not a good way to retro it to my car, but on 335's that shit works really well. the new one is supposed to be able to be used on multiple platforms. If it works I will open up this service to speeds in my area anyway.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Dano is that 2150 valve gonna jive with atr? AFAIK, there has been nothing but issues with that valve due to atr's 2074 reading cutoff.

you would be correct but I can sustain more pressure than the OE RV FWIW...lol

by about 50 PSI or so.

it is hard to keep the pressure stable as I am sure you are aware and thus hard to keep it off the 2073 limit. I command in the 1850s in the lower RPMs and right at 1800 in the upper with resulting Actual pressure in the high 19s and low 20's. I very rarely still hit the limit and thus fuel cut when mashing on the throttle in the middle of a gear sometimes.

Still working that one out since it is very very rare.

long story short the HPRV may not be helping me any and the OE valve may actually keep me from hitting the limit...haha

I need to do some testing one day...I don't have the BS shield over it so it can be swapped out in a matter of minutes.

Originally Posted by mzr0818 BMW uses a walnut shell blaster. I am interested in seeing the new one we are getting. The old machine there was not a good way to retro it to my car, but on 335's that shit works really well. the new one is supposed to be able to be used on multiple platforms. If it works I will open up this service to speeds in my area anyway.

I semi sort of used their setup to create me a block off plate for my cleaning. ghetto style out of MDF but it did the trick. one vac port and one media blast port. Literally a 20 minute fab job. It could be improved upon for sure.

[Constantin]

@boost_addict we just did it the other weekend. Don't pay $150 it will not worth it! Buy the OCC (if you don't have it).

You can put chemicals through the engine, but it will not help much. Just SeaFoam every oil change for maintenance purposes.

DIY: Sea Foam

Now, for the valve cleaning. You have to remove manifold to get them clean. There two ways: manual or walnut blasting.

For walnut blasting you well need:
Walnut Media (one bag, 25 lbs)
Blasting Gun
Compressor - A GOOD ONE
Shop Vac
B12 alcohol
Here you can find some screenshots:

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...ml#post1488787

In the same thread you'll see the some pics of the valves before and after.

We have tried to walnut blast it, but we fail with small compressor. So, ended up just cleaning them with drill and wire brushes - worked VERY well. Walnut blasting should safe time and work better. But wire brushes worked very well for me.

You obviously didn't search, since here are just some threads about it:

Cleaned my intake valves

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...hassee-100030/

There was another good one, but can't find it right now.....so, yeh...search

[mzr0818]

Originally Posted by Dano you would be correct but I can sustain more pressure than the OE RV FWIW...lol by about 50 PSI or so. it is hard to keep the pressure stable as I am sure you are aware and thus hard to keep it off the 2073 limit. I command in the 1850s in the lower RPMs and right at 1800 in the upper with resulting Actual pressure in the high 19s and low 20's. I very rarely still hit the limit and thus fuel cut when mashing on the throttle in the middle of a gear sometimes. Still working that one out since it is very very rare. long story short the HPRV may not be helping me any and the OE valve may actually keep me from hitting the limit...haha I need to do some testing one day...I don't have the BS shield over it so it can be swapped out in a matter of minutes. I semi sort of used their setup to create me a block off plate for my cleaning. ghetto style out of MDF but it did the trick. one vac port and one media blast port. Literally a 20 minute fab job. It could be improved upon for sure.

For anyone who has manually cleaned valves (me included) it is painfull and takes forever. The walnut blasting is freaking quick and easy, and does an awesome job.

I will probably have to make a connection fitting, correction 2 fitting to mate to the two different intake port sizes and I will be able to do mazdaspeeds in under 2 hours I think. I'm gonna work on this and see what I can come up with. If I can get this to happen without too much issue. I'll put a shop price on it and open it up to the general public AKA you fuckers.

[MSMS3]

Chemtool B12 and a shotgun cleaning kit worked extremely well for me. I have another car to drive, so I thought I'd do the teardown and start with the B12 and if I was not satisfied, I'd go get the walnut shells, etc. Never needed to.

Just poured it in the ports of the three closed cylinders, let is soak, scrubbed with the 12 gauge brush, sopped that shit out of the ports with clean gun patches, repeated as needed, flushed out with clean gasoline, dried with more clean patches and then blew dry with air compressor, then rotated crank to close other cylinder and did the same.

Should have taken pictures, but that B12 is strong shit and worked well after a little soak.

[Constantin]

Originally Posted by Dano I semi sort of used their setup to create me a block off plate for my cleaning. ghetto style out of MDF but it did the trick. one vac port and one media blast port. Literally a 20 minute fab job. It could be improved upon for sure.

Pics!!! @MS6FL got a big compressor and wants to walnut blast his valves. The pics. of your set up will greatly help out

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by Constantin @boost_addict we just did it the other weekend. Don't pay $150 it will not worth it! Buy the OCC (if you don't have it). You can put chemicals through the engine, but it will not help much. Just SeaFoam every oil change for maintenance purposes. DIY: Sea Foam Now, for the valve cleaning. You have to remove manifold to get them clean. There two ways: manual or walnut blasting. For walnut blasting you well need: Walnut Media (one bag, 25 lbs) Blasting Gun Compressor - A GOOD ONE Shop Vac B12 alcohol Here you can find some screenshots: http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...ml#post1488787 In the same thread you'll see the some pics of the valves before and after. We have tried to walnut blast it, but we fail with small compressor. So, ended up just cleaning them with drill and wire brushes - worked VERY well. Walnut blasting should safe time and work better. But wire brushes worked very well for me. You obviously didn't search, since here are just some threads about it: Cleaned my intake valves http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...hassee-100030/ There was another good one, but can't find it right now.....so, yeh...search

Thanks for the tips, but I was searching specifically for info about a machine. I've read plenty on doing it myself.

Looks like I'm just going to bite the bullet and do it myself over a weekend.

[Constantin]

Originally Posted by boost_addict Thanks for the tips, but I was searching specifically for info about a machine. I've read plenty on doing it myself. Looks like I'm just going to bite the bullet and do it myself over a weekend.

Oh...is see. Yep, you better of just DIY. If you have Harbor-freight store, they have some good wire brush kits with drill attachment. But I think any store will have something similar. Gun cleaning kit (as was pointed already) should work great too. And should be of better quality. I when through 3-4 brushes...

BTW if you don't have TIG's and OCC - get them first and then do valve cleaning. Simply because you'll be taking the IM off which will make it a breeze installing OCC.

Remember, when you'll be taking the IM off you will have to loose up your steering pump. Just follow JBR instructions on how to install TIG's.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by mzr0818 For anyone who has manually cleaned valves (me included) it is painfull and takes forever. The walnut blasting is freaking quick and easy, and does an awesome job. I will probably have to make a connection fitting, correction 2 fitting to mate to the two different intake port sizes and I will be able to do mazdaspeeds in under 2 hours I think. I'm gonna work on this and see what I can come up with. If I can get this to happen without too much issue. I'll put a shop price on it and open it up to the general public AKA you fuckers.

I gave the gun cleaning tools about an hour or so and said FUCK THIS. 30 minutes later after a trip to Harbor Freight and I was ready to blast.

Since you can get 3 cylinders closed at once I made a blockoff plate to cover all ports at once. The entire length of the head. This way there was no need to remove the plate 50 times during the process.

MDF actually worked great and no abrasion at all but to do it again I would use some 1/8th AL plate with spacers to make up the thickness of the IM so you can use IM bolts to connect it.

A large vac port with smaller media port would work best and if you could get the media port to fit inside the vac port like the BMW kit that would be baller.

Alas, I won't need one again for oh 30k miles and at maybe 10k a year that will be awhile...lol

[shadesofgray19]

Other thread said the mazda zoom cleaner was good shit. Let the valves soak for an hour then suck it. Repeat for half hour and hit with brush and your good to go.

[aviator79]

WTF are TIGs?

[Dano]

Thermal Insulator Gaskets.

[dpolseno41]

Walnut will get EVERYWHERE. As long as you're prepared for that, it does work really well.

[dooderek]

Do it by hand fagget. I have a diy

[Constantin]

Originally Posted by Daddy Chinkus Do it by hand fagget. I have a diy

I heard that ether you at somebody else dyno the car before and after valve cleaning and saw quite a difference in gained power.

Originally Posted by Dano I gave the gun cleaning tools about an hour or so and said FUCK THIS. 30 minutes later after a trip to Harbor Freight and I was ready to blast. Since you can get 3 cylinders closed at once I made a blockoff plate to cover all ports at once. The entire length of the head. This way there was no need to remove the plate 50 times during the process. MDF actually worked great and no abrasion at all but to do it again I would use some 1/8th AL plate with spacers to make up the thickness of the IM so you can use IM bolts to connect it. A large vac port with smaller media port would work best and if you could get the media port to fit inside the vac port like the BMW kit that would be baller. Alas, I won't need one again for oh 30k miles and at maybe 10k a year that will be awhile...lol

Thx for the description. Can you post pictures as well.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by Daddy Chinkus Do it by hand fagget. I have a diy