Kaboom! options for a new block.. and rotating assembly?

[SneakyP86]

Originally Posted by oskinosmee Oh snaps this is getting good VTEC_EATER sounds like a typical V8 older guy!!!!

I take exception to that remark.

[Lex]

I have a connecting rod and piston out of a working DISI engine in my hand. They both look stout and piston has carbon buildup but no indication of detonation damage.

One thing jumps out about this:

On the machined surface of the big end of the rod, there are some scoring marks. They usually stop or start right where the cap and main section of the rod come together.

This tells me 2 things:

1. The machined side of the rod makes contact with the crank as it rotates.

2. The machining on the cap and rod is done independently such that there is an "edge" if you will when they are mated.

Most blowups have either been in cruise or more commonly when shifting gears. Low load. The rotating assembly is being forced to stop or snagging or binding causing the rod to break or bend under those high pressure conditions. The question is: where is the snag or binding happening. Some say it's the BS. Perhaps.

I don't like that the rods make contact with the side of the crank.

After a blowup, do the rod bolts stay in place? I want to see more pictures of blown engines and the fracture points on the rods. Anyone have pics or links to these blowup pictures?

[y2kc0wb0y]

Rod bolts sometimes stay in place and sometimes don't ....What cylinder # rod and piston do you have?

[Lex]

Originally Posted by y2kc0wb0y Rod bolts sometimes stay in place and sometimes don't ....What cylinder # rod and piston do you have?

I actually don't know - Mark sent it to me from the motor he tore down and he had mixed them up.

Have you seen these same score marks Scott? Where the BS gear is on the crank, there is a step on the crank surface that meets the rod. This can have a higher chance of snagging.

The piston also gets very hot as this engine had oil burn marks from the oil channel exits coming down the piston sides.

[Thestaplegunkid]

When I take my motor apart, I"ll take lots of pictures.

[jmhinkle]

Which rod did you happen to chuck?

[VTEC_EATER]

Originally Posted by ChrisK The balance shafts have NOTHING to do with rotating assembly balance. All they are suppose to do it cancel out vibrations caused by the inline 4 design. Has nothing to do with the internal balance of the engine. It's simply for comfort, to cancel vibrations that the driver would normally feel without the BS. Some inline 4s don't have balance shafts (b-series hondas is a good example, also the 4cyl Ranger).

But engine vibrations will be made more apparent. As a driver you may or may not notice it, but the knock sensor attached to the engine may notice it. Heck Lex is making a theory that his phantom knock is due to his CP-e motor mount binding during cruise. The mount breaks free, trips the knock sensor, and he can't repeat it until the mount starts binding again while cruising for a while. Total randomness.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by VTEC_EATER But engine vibrations will be made more apparent. As a driver you may or may not notice it, but the knock sensor attached to the engine may notice it. Heck Lex is making a theory that his phantom knock is due to his CP-e motor mount binding during cruise. The mount breaks free, trips the knock sensor, and he can't repeat it until the mount starts binding again while cruising for a while. Total randomness.

The mount observation is very true. I can't repeat the random 8 KR since I have greased it and re-tightened. I am not the first to generate false KR due to noise in the engine bay. This is the reason that once you make one modification you have to be aware of the possible consequences and test test test on a large sample size. This is why aftermarket parts often result in issues.

[smakdown61]

Originally Posted by Lex I have a connecting rod and piston out of a working DISI engine in my hand. They both look stout and piston has carbon buildup but no indication of detonation damage. One thing jumps out about this: On the machined surface of the big end of the rod, there are some scoring marks. They usually stop or start right where the cap and main section of the rod come together. This tells me 2 things: 1. The machined side of the rod makes contact with the crank as it rotates. 2. The machining on the cap and rod is done independently such that there is an "edge" if you will when they are mated. Most blowups have either been in cruise or more commonly when shifting gears. Low load. The rotating assembly is being forced to stop or snagging or binding causing the rod to break or bend under those high pressure conditions. The question is: where is the snag or binding happening. Some say it's the BS. Perhaps. I don't like that the rods make contact with the side of the crank. After a blowup, do the rod bolts stay in place? I want to see more pictures of blown engines and the fracture points on the rods. Anyone have pics or links to these blowup pictures?

Can you post some pics labeling the marks?

[sleeperstang1994]

well i for one know that i just ordered a BSD and windage tray. whats the worst that could happen.....you blow? there's a good possibility you will do that anyway. your damned if you do and your damned if you don't so you might as well do what gives you personal piece of mind. As for me i will feel better when the BS is out and i have a windage tray in there.

[MS3BOOSTIN]

I AM HERE TO TELL YOU THAT DOING A BALANCE SHAFT DELETE DOES NOT SAVE A MOTOR I AM LIVING PROOF I JUST BLEW UP YESTERDAY AND HAD BSD&METH NOTHING SAVES THESE PIECE OF S*&T MOTORS I HAD THE BSD FOR ABOUT 9,000MILES NOW AND IT DIDN'T HELP AT ALL I HAVE PIECES OF ALUMINUM ALL OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by MS3BOOSTIN I AM HERE TO TELL YOU THAT DOING A BALANCE SHAFT DELETE DOES NOT SAVE A MOTOR I AM LIVING PROOF I JUST BLEW UP YESTERDAY AND HAD BSD&METH NOTHING SAVES THESE PIECE OF S*&T MOTORS I HAD THE BSD FOR ABOUT 9,000MILES NOW AND IT DIDN'T HELP AT ALL I HAVE PIECES OF ALUMINUM ALL OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So they finally got you too huh? I tell you no ones safes but people don't listen. There either going to tell you

1. The damage was done before you got the BSD
or
2. You didn't stand a chance cause you were modded.

[Deadman]

Originally Posted by MS3BOOSTIN I AM HERE TO TELL YOU THAT DOING A BALANCE SHAFT DELETE DOES NOT SAVE A MOTOR I AM LIVING PROOF I JUST BLEW UP YESTERDAY AND HAD BSD&METH NOTHING SAVES THESE PIECE OF S*&T MOTORS I HAD THE BSD FOR ABOUT 9,000MILES NOW AND IT DIDN'T HELP AT ALL I HAVE PIECES OF ALUMINUM ALL OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL^

Your all the sudden proof? What was done to your car? What were you doing when it blew?

o and fuck your caps lock... SHUT IT OFF

[jmhinkle]

+1

I just need the details of the blow. Don't tell me that BSD and Meth won't save your car while you drive around boosted up in 6th gear at 2000 RPM. Or that you popped off the wastegate line and was running with 30psi. There are always details involved and they do make the difference.

I've got 20000 miles on my BSD that I did before I started modding anything. It sways me strongly to my side of course, but with some reasonable data I'm always open to hear that it doesn't help.

[Target:STi]

agreed. details please.

[kgb]

Originally Posted by MS3BOOSTIN I AM HERE TO TELL YOU THAT DOING A BALANCE SHAFT DELETE DOES NOT SAVE A MOTOR I AM LIVING PROOF I JUST BLEW UP YESTERDAY AND HAD BSD&METH NOTHING SAVES THESE PIECE OF S*&T MOTORS I HAD THE BSD FOR ABOUT 9,000MILES NOW AND IT DIDN'T HELP AT ALL I HAVE PIECES OF ALUMINUM ALL OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe start a new thread so that the details of your blow don't get confused with the OP and so others will know... instead of your post being hidden within a different thread.

Having said that, I am sorry for your loss....can you list the basics...mods, rpm...you probably know the drill...

[bf360]

Says he was fully bolted with an sst

[sleeperstang1994]

*patiently waiting for latest blow thread*

[Decepticon]

Originally Posted by sleeperstang1994 *patiently waiting for latest blow thread*

i got blown last night

[ljudgeii]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Yup no hard evidence either way about BSD, so take from the discussion what you want. I simply removed it cause i liked the idea of an extra quart of oil in the motor, and no siphoning from cylinder 2, plus I just felt cool pulling a 20lb leech off of my motor, hahaha.

Concur

[ljudgeii]

Originally Posted by bf360 Says he was fully bolted with an sst

I thought I read a thread about MS3Boostin running the SST and testing some other stuff. Yes start a new thread with details, cause I am mulling over the reworked turbo route.

[MS3BOOSTIN]

i had cold air intake,turbo inlet,turbo back exhaust,fuel pump internals,cpe fmic,dnp manifold,ptp sst,bsd,meth,pnp standback,hks twin ignition, i had pretty much every bolt on part you can think of. I left work and as i'm driving i had some out of the ordinary knock like 2.2,then i saw 5.3 but then it all cooled off and the car was running fine i pulled into the bank shut the car off came back started the car and took of, as i was pulling out of the bank around 4k rpm in 1st gear kaboom smoke every where and right there i knew what had just happened (ZOOM ZOOM BOOM)ftl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[802MS3]

plz send Lex your busted engine

[lidokrantz]

So SORRY to here Ryan...your Speed was coming along so nice.....I should of warned you the Advans increase hp/tq by 30 whp.....but anyway man, you are taking this much better than i would of and i wish you the best at putting it back together better than stock.....

[Lex]

Originally Posted by smakdown61 Can you post some pics labeling the marks?

The markings here are what I am talking about. This particular rod has been bent. A non bent rod has less severe markings but these show what I am talking about.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by MS3BOOSTIN i had cold air intake,turbo inlet,turbo back exhaust,fuel pump internals,cpe fmic,dnp manifold,ptp sst,bsd,meth,pnp standback,hks twin ignition, i had pretty much every bolt on part you can think of. I left work and as i'm driving i had some out of the ordinary knock like 2.2,then i saw 5.3 but then it all cooled off and the car was running fine i pulled into the bank shut the car off came back started the car and took of, as i was pulling out of the bank around 4k rpm in 1st gear kaboom smoke every where and right there i knew what had just happened (ZOOM ZOOM BOOM)ftl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you know which cylinder it was? Any vibrations in the clutch before this? What year and how many miles on your car? Finally, are you tearing this down?

Sorry about your situation, the more info we have the better for the community.

[Thestaplegunkid]

Well I'm tearing my car apart as I type, finally located the hole, it's in the back of the block, #1 rod is currently sticking through the side of my block.... and the fuckin thing managed to take a chunk out of my oil pan

My question is, has anyone tried removing the engine only (ie, leave the tranny in the car) from a mazdaspeed 3. I only have like inch and a half of movement on the accesory side.... to clear my flywheel and clutch. Wondering if anyone did this.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Thestaplegunkid Well I'm tearing my car apart as I type, finally located the hole, it's in the back of the block, #1 rod is currently sticking through the side of my block.... and the fuckin thing managed to take a chunk out of my oil pan My question is, has anyone tried removing the engine only (ie, leave the tranny in the car) from a mazdaspeed 3. I only have like inch and a half of movement on the accesory side.... to clear my flywheel and clutch. Wondering if anyone did this.

If possible, please take some very detailed (macro) pictures of where the rod fractured. On both ends.

Please note if the rod bolts are intact. I may be interested in the rod and associated pieces from the wreckage unless you want to keep them. I can pay postage.

[Thestaplegunkid]

Well here's what I found when I took the undertray off... It's a big pic, for your viewing pleasure... this is looking up from beneath the car, back side of the oil pan, that's #1 wedged through the block.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Thestaplegunkid Well here's what I found when I took the undertray off... It's a big pic, for your viewing pleasure... this is looking up from beneath the car, back side of the oil pan, that's #1 wedged through the block.

Thanks for the pic. Can you move the rod at all or is it fairly stuck in there? Is it possible to get a "head-on" pic of the fracture on the rod?

[Thestaplegunkid]

Originally Posted by Lex Thanks for the pic. Can you move the rod at all or is it fairly stuck in there? Is it possible to get a "head-on" pic of the fracture on the rod?

I'll try to see if I can get a head on shot later tonight for ya.

[Lex]

Bump for pics

[djuosnteisn]

Bigger bump for staplegunkid to just send the rod(s) to lex.

[06Speed6]

Im not sure how much you can really learn without the entire engine, that would probably be the better route.

[Lex]

I want to start by seeing the fracture point ... it's a starting point - see if I can make anything out from it having beat the block up. I'd like to also see piston shots (or what is left) and the other rods.

[Thestaplegunkid]

Originally Posted by Lex Bump for pics

Hey guys, sorry, the rod is wedged in place, and I'm working nights at the moment, I get off friday morning, so the tear down will continue then.

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by Thestaplegunkid Hey guys, sorry, the rod is wedged in place, and I'm working nights at the moment, I get off friday morning, so the tear down will continue then.

Sounds like another closed casket funeral....

[Thestaplegunkid]

So, while I was continuing the tear down last night, I took a look at my Turbo compressor. There appears to be quite a bit of shaft end play. Enough so, that I think it's been making contact with the housing, see the pic below, what do ya think?

[Darksun280]

well your gonna bebleeding money id scoop up a used stocker for like 250 or theres a couple upgraded stockers floating around for like 650.

[Thestaplegunkid]

Well, I just got home from the family vacation (2 weeks in Oregon). The motor is ready to drop out of the car, but i'm back to work for the next week and a half, so there will be little updates for a while.

The new motor is currently at P3 getting built.

I guess I need a new turbo too.... so many new things.