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MazdaSpeed 3 - Engine, Transmission & Driveline Discussion of engine, tranny and drivelines.


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 Old 06-12-2018, 10:09 PM   #1
 
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Default Knocking sound only on idle

Have this knocking sound.. only on idle. It rattles more now that I put in a downpipe. It rattles when the engine runs a little more on idle, and stops when it calms down. Don't know if that makes sense. Anybody have this before?
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 Old 06-13-2018, 04:37 AM   #2
 
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part out?
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 Old 06-13-2018, 05:30 AM   #3
 
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My old phone cant play it. Post a video to boob tube or throw some big ole titties up in here. How many miles and what mods do you have.
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 Old 06-13-2018, 07:23 AM   #4
 
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Geiger counter mod. lol
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 Old 06-13-2018, 01:09 PM   #5
 
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Ok ill get a link or something tonight. But basically have stage 2 cobb mods. Intake, inlet pipe, internals, dp, and im running full straight pipe too. I recently put in a dp but I had this sound before. If its only on idle, would it be my engine knocking or could it be something else? Oh and im at 112k miles.
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 Old 06-13-2018, 02:45 PM   #6
 
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Sounds like VVT noise to me.
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 Old 06-13-2018, 03:11 PM   #7
 
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Yea, I'd say either bad VVT or a bad pulley bearing. It's hard to tell from a video where the noise is coming from, so I'd take a long screwdriver and touch the tip to various parts and put your ear to the handle. Make sure you don't accidentally touch anything that moves! It'll be fairly obvious where it's coming from. If it's coming from near your oil cap that's your VVT shitting the bed. If it's coming from somewhere on the side of the block it's a pulley bearing. If it's coming from the block itself, plan your part out lol
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 Old 06-13-2018, 03:17 PM   #8
 
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Year of car would help, I doubt any gen 2 is having vvtissues
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 Old 06-13-2018, 03:44 PM   #9
 
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Its 2007. And isn't VVT noise only on start up?
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 Old 06-13-2018, 04:26 PM   #10
 
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Originally Posted by ZoomZoomT View Post
Its 2007. And isn't VVT noise only on start up?
Not necessarily. That *specific* startup issue was due to the VVT actuator not being able to pick up the slack in the chain and the chain slapping the valve cover. That's the warning sign your VVT is going out. It gets worse. Also, the chain itself can stretch. There's several parts to a VVT system. If the knocking sound was steady and varied in speed with RPM, that would be more indicative of a rod or bearing. Since it's more random, it seems more like a pulley or VVT (unless that random noise is actually bits of your engine internals flying around randomly). Do the screwdriver test.
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 Old 06-13-2018, 06:02 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by Solarsurge View Post
Not necessarily. That *specific* startup issue was due to the VVT actuator not being able to pick up the slack in the chain and the chain slapping the valve cover. That's the warning sign your VVT is going out. It gets worse. Also, the chain itself can stretch. There's several parts to a VVT system. If the knocking sound was steady and varied in speed with RPM, that would be more indicative of a rod or bearing. Since it's more random, it seems more like a pulley or VVT (unless that random noise is actually bits of your engine internals flying around randomly). Do the screwdriver test.
Ok thanks i'll look at it some more.
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 Old 06-13-2018, 06:04 PM   #12
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its a loose heat shield ya dummy, get your shit together
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 Old 06-13-2018, 06:33 PM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by Pu Manchu View Post
its a loose heat shield ya dummy, get your shit together
Or that hahaha. That falls under the "check exhaust" section

Like I always say...before you jump to conclusions check the small stuff first lol
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 Old 06-13-2018, 06:40 PM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by Pu Manchu View Post
its a loose heat shield ya dummy, get your shit together
I mean I just replaced the dp, so I took a few heat shields out so don't know what heat shield it could be. Not much left to look at.
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 Old 06-13-2018, 09:32 PM   #15
 
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When I hear knocking, it's usually girls wanting a ride.
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 Old 07-09-2018, 01:06 PM   #16
 
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Im in the process of replacing my timing chain and vvt. Basically got the VVT replacement kit. Process sucks! lol had a good amount of slack in my chain when i took it off.

Another thing is when i floor the car, I get white smoke out my exhaust. I know blue smoke is oil. But its not blue, its white which is usually some kind of moisture. Im just not sure what it could be.. Anybody have any ideas?
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 Old 07-09-2018, 01:40 PM   #17
 
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check your coolant level....

for the chain, make sure to read the thread how-to VVT and follow the given advices there.
While being at it, i would check the idler and AC clutch bearing too.

rod bearing knock will get worse if you hold brakes and try to slip the clutch in first gear just to put a load on the engine.
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 Old 07-09-2018, 02:48 PM   #18
 
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Yea I looked at the How-to for vvt. My coolant levels are lower in my reservoir but only because I forgot to add more when i spilled some when I was cleaning my egr valve.

Also, what do you think of the Banjo/ Boone Bolt fix for the smoking turbo. I might try that just to see if it fixes anything. I tried to find the pvc pill fix thing but couldn't find it for the first gens.

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 Old 07-09-2018, 04:54 PM   #19
 
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The smoky turbo is a crank case ventilation issue in nearly all cases. Our PCV system is adequately engineered for stock power levels, but once you start pushing more power, a catch can setup is a necessity. I firmly believe banjo bolts are NOT the answer. Restricting oil flow into the turbo instead of solving the oil flow problem out of the turbo is just putting less oil through the turbo increasing the chances of overheating and premature wear. A bolt is cheap, so that's why people jump to that "fix." A proper fix isn't cheap OR easy.

Look at it this way. Let's say you have 5 psi in your crank case. That may not sound like a lot of pressure, but it is. It's blowing air up your oil return line in similar fashion to you blowing bubbles into a beverage with a straw. The oil in the turbo can't escape through that line, and the new oil into the turbo tries to displace that oil, but it has nowhere to go but past the seals and out your exhaust. Restricting that oil MAY limit displacement and stop smoking, but it will also leave the turbo starved for oil once the return line is no longer under positive pressure and all the oil flows out.

How do we solve this problem?

Solution 1: Catch Cans - $200+
Nearly all turbo inlet pipes have venturi suction tubes pulling pressure from the crank case. The problem this creates is it literally sucks oil blowby from the crank case directly back into the intake. This is why Corksport's catch can is placed in this area. However, if the crank case is pressurized enough, this suction alone can't keep up. This is why Damond Motorsports has done tremendous additional research into multiple catch can setups, ventilation routing options, etc. This area is pretty well covered. However, it's still not always enough.

Solution 2: Scavenge Pump - $200+
The idea here is simple -- use a pump to control oil flow from the turbo. While this is guaranteed to pump the oil from the turbo, it doesn't do anything to relieve the crank case pressure (which has other adverse affects on engine performance) and is also a pretty gigantic pain in the balls to design, implement, and maintain.

Solution 3: Dry Sump System - Hella Expensive
This is what professional race cars use. It utilizes a shallow oil pan and vacuum pumps to keep the crank case under vacuum full time, sucking both oil and air (pressure) out of the crank case and pumping it into a reservoir that isn't subject to typical sloshing/windage from aggressive driving. I don't even think anyone sells a kit compatible with our cars anymore. Cosworth did, but good luck finding one. This is a custom thing, so not realistic.

With that said...most of us can solve our crank case pressure issues with proper VTA catch can setups or a combination of catch cans and a scavenge pump. A restrictor bolt is often sold to prevent "over-oiling." Now, I'm not the smartest man...but I don't believe there can ever be such a thing as "over-oiling" of a thing that spins at 100,000+ RPM and is designed to ride on that oil or face catastrophic failure from metal to metal contact.

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 Old 07-10-2018, 04:36 AM   #20
 
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I vote lose heat shield. Sounds too light to be timing chain, thats more of a clack/clatter. This is definitely more thin metal vibration territory. Check that all the bolts are tight(barely past hand tight) and then check the overlapping sections of hte shield. they often get bent in and touch eachother.
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 Old 07-15-2018, 12:32 PM   #21
 
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Yea, so I changed the vvt and timing chain and the sound is still there. I think i narrowed it down to my alternator. I'm thinking it's the pulley on the alternator. But ok I'll do some research on the catch can.
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 Old 07-16-2018, 11:13 AM   #22
 
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So i was looking through the Damond Motorsports catch can kits and I was wondering what kit is best to get? stage 1,2 or 3? Also since I have a 2007, would i need to specifically look for the 0-09 kits?
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 Old 07-16-2018, 12:44 PM   #23
 
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Stage 7. ALWAYS Stage 7.
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 Old 07-16-2018, 01:15 PM   #24
 
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If you read the descriptions under the options it tells you what those options are recommended for. Such as “recommended for big turbo setups” and what not.


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 Old 07-16-2018, 02:41 PM   #25
 
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OK found that description page.

So would this potentially fix the smoking while sitting on idle for some time issue too?
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 Old 07-16-2018, 02:47 PM   #26
 
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No
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 Old 07-16-2018, 02:50 PM   #27
 
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So should I still try the banjo bolt? Im suppose to get it today. And Damond Motorsports says all sales r final lol

But ill order the catch can today too
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 Old 07-16-2018, 02:50 PM   #28
 
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Originally Posted by ZoomZoomT View Post
OK found that description page.

So would this potentially fix the smoking while sitting on idle for some time issue too?

There’s only 2 reasons for smoking at idle — either oil is getting past the turbo seals or you have engine trouble. With the oil issue, it’s a well documented issue that our cars have terrible crank case ventilation and I have seen brand new turbos smoke. If your turbo is blown, catch cans will not do much, but it will help your next turbo last longer and not smoke.



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 Old 07-17-2018, 07:16 AM   #29
 
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If your oil pan leak, draining the oil from the pan will, for sure, stop the leak like a smaller banjo bolt will do for the turbo Is it a good solution? I let you figure it out.
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 Old 07-17-2018, 07:45 AM   #30
 
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Default Knocking sound only on idle

With a ball bearing turbo, oil restriction is needed and the ball bearings are what the turbo rides on and CAN be over-oiled. Nearly all of these come with restrictors. Stock turbo is a journal bearing turbo, which is literally like saying “oil bearing” since it’s literally floating on a layer of oil. Take away the oil or restrict that flow and you may be destroying your turbo faster just to try to stop it from smoking. I think this is where a lot of the “Do I need a restrictor bolt” confusion comes from...


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 Old 07-17-2018, 11:23 AM   #31
 
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Originally Posted by Solarsurge View Post
With a ball bearing turbo, oil restriction is needed and the ball bearings are what the turbo rides on and CAN be over-oiled. Nearly all of these come with restrictors. Stock turbo is a journal bearing turbo, which is literally like saying “oil bearing” since it’s literally floating on a layer of oil. Take away the oil or restrict that flow and you may be destroying your turbo faster just to try to stop it from smoking. I think this is where a lot of the “Do I need a restrictor bolt” confusion comes from...


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Ok so if it is that bad for the turbo, why can't I find anything on people complaining abt their turbos after they put the bolt in? All i see is people saying that their smoke is gone. So im still not too sure about the restrictor bolt. Would you recommend to install the catch can first before trying the bolt?
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 Old 07-17-2018, 11:51 AM   #32
 
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Default Knocking sound only on idle

Originally Posted by ZoomZoomT View Post
Ok so if it is that bad for the turbo, why can't I find anything on people complaining abt their turbos after they put the bolt in? All i see is people saying that their smoke is gone. So im still not too sure about the restrictor bolt. Would you recommend to install the catch can first before trying the bolt?

Let’s be retarded for a minute. Let’s say all of the engineers at Mazda and millions of dollars of R&D money were pissed away on a shitty bolt that is not properly designed for your stock turbo, and that is the reason you’re smoking. So you get a restrictor bolt, which stops your smoke. You’d be on the forums saying “See? I told Solarsurge this bolt would be the answer to my problems!” Then 3,000 miles down the road when your turbo shits the bed you’ll probably say “It was a good run. I sure am glad that bolt got me another 3k miles! Time for a big turbo!” Then you buy a big turbo with a journal bearing because it’s cheaper and it, too, craps out on you after just 3,000 miles. Now you want to blame the shitty turbo manufacturer. Never once do you even consider that your PCV may be your issue and your stock turbo might have lived 30,000 more miles if you didn’t put in that stupid bolt and your brand new turbo might have lasted 100k+ mi without that bolt. Why? Because the bolt solved what you thought was your initial problem. Does that answer your question?

Ask me how I know so much about the topic.


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 Old 07-17-2018, 12:05 PM   #33
 
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Agreed restrictor bolt is a bandaid that won't stop the infection.
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 Old 07-17-2018, 12:16 PM   #34
 
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Originally Posted by Solarsurge View Post
Let’s be retarded for a minute. Let’s say all of the engineers at Mazda and millions of dollars of R&D money were pissed away on a shitty bolt that is not properly designed for your stock turbo, and that is the reason you’re smoking. So you get a restrictor bolt, which stops your smoke. You’d be on the forums saying “See? I told Solarsurge this bolt would be the answer to my problems!” Then 3,000 miles down the road when your turbo shits the bed you’ll probably say “It was a good run. I sure am glad that bolt got me another 3k miles! Time for a big turbo!” Then you buy a big turbo with a journal bearing because it’s cheaper and it, too, craps out on you after just 3,000 miles. Now you want to blame the shitty turbo manufacturer. Never once do you even consider that your PCV may be your issue and your stock turbo might have lived 30,000 more miles if you didn’t put in that stupid bolt and your brand new turbo might have lasted 100k+ mi without that bolt. Why? Because the bolt solved what you thought was your initial problem. Does that answer your question?

Ask me how I know so much about the topic.


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Yea that makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. Was kinda confused on that. SO basically putting in the restrictor bolt fucks your turbo either way. With or without the OCC.
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 Old 07-17-2018, 01:46 PM   #35
 
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Originally Posted by Solarsurge View Post
Ask me how I know so much about the topic.
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Sound like a guy that did the experiments and didn't like the results ...?
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Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
Sound like a guy that did the experiments and didn't like the results ...?

Let’s just say I bought a BNR S4 because I had a smoky turbo, installed the brand new BNR S4 and still had a smoky turbo, put in a restrictor bolt that BNR supplier to me and still had a smoky turbo. I am talking about smoke to a point three different mechanics told me I had bad head gasket. That’s when I learned all about crankcase pressure and tracked it down to a clogged PCV line. Finally got the issue resolved and realized my 3,000 mile old BNR S4 already has a little shaft play and needs to be sent in for warranty. Why? Because under boost it was starved for oil because of that stupid bolt.


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 Old 07-23-2018, 10:28 AM   #37
 
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So basically that knocking/ticking sound was my tensioner. At least im glad my chain is nice and tight now and shouldn't have to deal with the vvt issue in the future.
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