Let's Talk About Valvespring Retainers

[Mazdazilla6]

Okay guys so as of late I've been looking around at valvetrain and head upgrades. There's a decent amount of options out there for us and I plan on running some hotter cams and revving out to 8k. Due to this I've started looking around at valve springs, I think for 8k and the cams I plan on running that Crower's 65lb option is a good match.

This spring kit retails around $280. Not horribly priced but I got to thinking as to where that cost comes from, I mean it's just a set of springs and retainers after all. After spending some time flipping through Crower's catalog I figured it out. The springs themselves are very cheap, the whole set of 16 can be bought for under $100. The rest of that $280 price comes from the retainers. The retainers by themselves are a bit over $200. My guess for that cost is because they're Ti.

So what I'm wondering is, do we NEED upgraded retainers when running upgraded springs? Of course there's the possibility that stock retainers may not work with these springs but presuming they do, I don't think Ti retainers are really necessary unless I'm missing something crucial about them.

If anyone has any input about this I'd love to hear it.

[Fstrnyou]

All I can think of is, it's not for strength, but reducing weight thereby reducing inertia that leads to valve float at high revs. The springs won't have to work as hard to keep the valve from getting launched off the cam lobe. High pressure springs often come from thinker wire, which limits how much they can compress before they bind. Lighter components mean you can have lighter gauge spring wire with the same results.

Lighter weight > stronger springs

[WetzMS3]

I haven't looked into Crower's catalog for this specifically, but I seem to remember the retainer design being quite a bit different than OEM retainers.

There may be compatibility issues that will force you to use upgraded retainers with upgraded springs, similar to the valve guides required for Supertech valves.

[Mazdazilla6]

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 I haven't looked into Crower's catalog for this specifically, but I seem to remember the retainer design being quite a bit different than OEM retainers. There may be compatibility issues that will force you to use upgraded retainers with upgraded springs, similar to the valve guides required for Supertech valves.

I can't find a picture of the actual retainer from Crower but I'm gonna order up one spring and see if it fits into my spare head with stock hardware. Just need to make sure I've got all the dimensions right for the spring.

[WetzMS3]

Crower and OEM retainers (pic found in How to replace valve seals guide)

[CWP_MS3]

I was scrolling past all the threads under new posts, and scrolled past this way too fast. Thought it said "let's talk about vaping". Instantly was like, yeah and brorus too.

Carry on. lol

[Mazdazilla6]

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 Crower and OEM retainers (pic found in How to replace valve seals guide)

Well the top sides look pretty similar so I guess that's promising?

[jtday]

Well I blew the motor in a past car of mine due to a cracked retainer. Take that with a grain of salt I guess.

[zenit]

Originally Posted by jtday Well I blew the motor in a past car of mine due to a cracked retainer. Take that with a grain of salt I guess.

What motor, what car?

[jtday]

Originally Posted by zenit What motor, what car?

M20B25 (2.5l SOHC straight 6, solid valvetrain) old bmw

[Mazdazilla6]

Okay, I think I've got it figured out by cross referencing rates and retainer part number on Crower's catalog. The spring that Crower uses for our kits is PN 68195. A set of 16 is $77.33 from Crower. If you don't want to drop $200 on Ti retainers you SHOULD be able to use chromoly retainers PN 87085S, although they're listed as used for a Subaru. Those are only $69.03 for a set of 16.

I'm going to order 1 spring to see if it fits with our stock retainers. I'm also going to order 1 chromoly retainer to see how much lighter it is than stock and if it will work with our valve stem locks. After doing a bit of research, Ti retainers are only used for their weight and seeing as we have small valves and already don't have valve float issues at 7500 on stock springs I think these will work just fine without Ti retainers at 8000.

After going over some data posted in another valve spring thread, it looks like these springs are barely stiffer than our stock springs but have a lot more travel before they bind (which is good for a hotter cam as we hit bind right around .400" lift on stock springs).

Edit: ordered