Wow...lol...after reading that thread i thought I was on a Mazda site.

You have to be able to distinguish between a bad DESIGN and a poorly put together motor. Even a well designed engine can go with poor manufacturing and parts. Simple as that.

These engines are mass produced and there are bound to be lemons. Further, you will sell lemons come out of the woodwork much faster when you output 300hp out of 2.3l versus the 150hp of an NA engine.

So take care of it knowing you are dealing with lots of heat and potential wear and you will be ok. If you get a lemon - then that's just the luck of the draw.

+1. Although we seem to be in a better situation since meth solves our problem. You can't really fix poorly designed oil passages that cause subie rod failure.

Add that guy Duy215 to the list from this thread
http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...year-atco.html

He came in the shout box and said he threw arod and hes trying to get the car back to stock

Any details?

think he was getting on the highway going from 2nd to 3rd then boom

i was talking to him earlier, he hammered down on second from 3k to the top of the gear, shifted and the motor popped as soon as he let the clutch out. i dont know what the temps outside or road conditions were.

Just got back from CPe. I'll update the list tomorrow. Thanks for the info! Hopefully I'll update my "personal" incident info by this weekend. Gonna start pulling the motor apart this week. Starting with the oil pan, then working my way up to the head.

Add One More Blown Engine to the List
 

Car: Early 2008, mileage at failure 3607
Cylinder: 3?
Damage: Hole in block about the size of a rod end, engine compartment fire
RPM: 3,000 to 3,500 (5th gear, 70 mph, down grade load)
Mods: Bone Stock
Exhaust Manifold: Stock as built
Situation: Highway speed (I5 in California) Cruise Control set, down grade.
Warranty: Denied – Inspecting dealer claims that servicing Mazda dealer left drain plug loose and cause was it fell out allowing oil to drain out.
Oil: Dealer supplied 5w/30 stock # 103050. Oil changed @2300 miles.

Other: There was no indication of low oil condition prior to engine failure. The low oil pressure indicator light did not illuminate until after the motor quit. There was no increase in operating temp.

The oil was last changed at an authorized Mazda Dealer, so if you think using the dealer will protect you, think again.

I have written a letter to Mazda North American Operations to appeal the denial of warranty coverage. We’ll see what happens.

With the large number of denied warranty claims, has there been any thought to injured class action?

Has anyone else filed a NHTSA complaint?

all i can say is WOW. Take it to the dealer that did the oil change they should be forced to cover it.

Also wouldn't a motor seize before it though a rod if no oil was in there?

so this is no fault to the engine/or bad engine, just stupid dealer.

Here is the rub. The dealer that performed the oil change sold the Mazda franchise later in the week. They are no longer authorized to do Mazda warranty work.

I don’t know about the seize vs. broken rod, but I’d expect the low oil pressure light to come on before a catastrophic failure.

Assuming that the plug was let loose and it fell out 1300 miles later, allowing the oil to drain out; shouldn’t there have been some warning before the failure?

I’m thinking there is something wrong with some component. What am I missing? What would you suggest be my next step? I’m getting no assistance from Mazda corporate at all.

you have the oil change at 2300 miles, and the failure is at 3600 miles, if the plug was loose early, you should notice a lot of oil on the ground. Now assume the plug came loose while you were driving when this happens, I don't have an answer to that, but there should be a warning for low oil.

This occurred during a long road trip home from Northern Oregon. Last fuel stop 230 miles before failure. Last rest stop before failure 110 miles. No sign of problem at either stop.

It seems overall that Ms3 motors blow due to defects if you are near stock or you turned up the boost in some way. So if you dont have any defects, do some basic bolt ons (intake, tbe, mm) keep up with maintanence and dont overly abuse, the Ms3 should last a good while?

The low oil light comes on after it's already too low.

I understand what you are saying, but it makes no sense at all. Does Mazda recognize that this is true? Do you have instances where others have had low oil pressure failures without warning?

The owner’s manual clearly describes action that should be taken to prevent engine failure after the light comes on.

I understand that a low pressure warning light won’t indicate low pressure in a worn out motor, but this motor is brand new.

Honestly talk to a lawyer, the mechanic/service manager can still be held personally accountable. I'm not sure it's be easy to get reparations out of them, but it wouldn't be hard to prove negligence. I don't think it's difficult to get a professor from an automotive school who is certified has a master technician to prove in a hearing that if the bolt was torqued to factory specs it would not vibrate loose. Could be a hassle, but would be worth it over an 8 grand engine( i think that's what they are going for)

question did the dealership change names when it was sold? If not the they might have bought the name and all holding which would make make them still liable. You need to request a copy of the sales agreement.

what the fuck!!!!
i feel for you man. if you're not modded, i don't really understand how they could not warranty this...this is getting to be fucking ridiculous

Your avitar is funny!

I understand that this shouldn't be happening in a new car, I'm just saying relying on that light is a bad thing to do, but you shouldn't have to in a new car anyway. And, your dealer is obviously 100% at fault for this failure. I saw one case of no engine compression with no warning sign.. but that's a little different.

The warning light is all that Mazda provides to indicate a low oil condition. What should we rely on?

I don't think a blown motor should be the first clue. Is there any other examples available of similar situations or has the Low Oil Pressure Light worked effectively for others?

The reason I ask is Mazda North America has denied warranty claim. They are not recognizing that there was a material defect that contributed to this.

or am I missing something?

I can't comment on Mazda, but most makes I've delt with, the low oil light gives you ample time to get the car to the side of the road. The low oil level light (yellow light) would be first followed by low oil pressure (red light). I've personally witnessed a engine run with out oil for about 15 minutes.

running without oil is bad mmmmkay?

I still don't know about that, there are a lot of ms3 out there and only a few/ very few that run meth. So odds are favorable with meth users but there are tons of ms3 out there that are running fine without a problem/blown engine. Can we find out how many ms3 are sold since 2007, I think we need a consensus going if one haven't done one yet, I know we have one for blown engine.

I don't see anyone questioning that
 

The question is; what provision is there to recognize “running without oil” if it occurs while driving on the freeway?

Isn't that what the low oil pressure indicator light is for?

If there is no indication for a low oil condition prior to engine failure, what is to say that all of the listed engine failures weren’t due to low oil pressure? and Wouldn’t that lend to being a manufacturer defect?

The only real indication is the low oil light. Other than that your valve train would probably be really loud.

My friend lost his regular 3 in almost the same way. It was 1 week after an oil change or so and the rod went while cruising on the freeway. He took it to the dealer and they said mazda is not at fault. They ended up finding out that Jiffy lube <-(I think) cracked the oil filter housing when performing the oil change. It was a little easier for them to find that then the low oil he may have had (or if the drain bolt was missing). Considering there was a hole in the pan. Jiffy Lube said it wasn't there fault or something. Anyway, he ending up having to go through his insurance or something to get it repaired. Then he got rid of it for a G35.

Thanks for the info! It sound like this kind of customer care is SOP for Mazda. I wish I’d known that before I took the wife there to buy a car.

I am curious how far your friend pushed for recovery from Mazda and Jiffy Lube before he used his insurance carrier?

Given the fact that the MAZDA selling dealer and the authorized Mazda servicing dealer are one and the same, my situation is a little different than your friend’s, so I’m definitely going to push this through to the bitter end.

Did your friend file a complaint with NHTSA? If not is he willing to?

If your friend is ok with it, can you put me in touch with him? Send me a P.M.

I'm sorry but I don't see how Mazds NA is responsible here

how are they not, the car is stock, they did the oil change, car blew up and now they blame it on a oil leak? First off all, i highly doubt there was an oil leak to begin with.

I was under the impression the drain plug fell out in which case it's the dealers fault that performed the oil service not Mazda NA...

All this gets to the heart of the issue. Many people, including myself, take our cars to the dealer for service during the warranty period with the assumption that is the best way to keep our new car warranty in place. There are several recommendations within the Owners and Warranty Manual that led me to believe that is the best course of action. While I’m not an attorney, I believe that the Replacement Parts and Accessories Limited Warranty support that reasoning.

I’m finding that with Mazda this is not the case and that paying the extra price to have a car serviced at the dealer is money wasted. What is Mazda Authorized Dealer and Mazda Authorized Service intended to mean?

At least if I’d changed the oil myself, I’d understand being told to bear the responsibility myself. But, then again I’ve never left an oil pan drain plug loose.

That being said, Mazda NAO is denying the warranty on the unproven theory that the drain plug fell out and the all of the oil drained out of the pan. The servicing dealer is not disputing that could be the case, but needs some concrete evidence before submitting a claim to their insurance carrier. Such a theory should be easy to prove, but Mazda NAO has not done so. My position is that Mazda NAO holds new car warranty responsibility until it is proven to the extent required to convince the servicing dealer that the failure was their fault.

First piece of evidence that the theorized chain of events is accurate would be an observation of a low oil pressure situation prior to the motor going pop. NO OIL, NO OIL PRESSURE. There was no warning of low oil pressure. Even the Service Manager at the dealer where that car was originally towed stated that he has seen these motors run for extended periods without oil (1/2 hour).

Next way Mazda NAO could provide evidence is by inspecting other oil lubricated components for signs of oil starvation. To date Mazda has not done that either.

Just my not so humble opinion, but it is Mazda NAO’s responsibility to stand behind their product. If they want to affix financial responsibility to the Servicing Dealer, more power to them. I’ll assist them in any way I can, but that should be done without leaving me, the customer, without assistance.

That is the way they approached this from the beginning. To date they have not yet stepped up to the plate. They are making overtures to the idea that they may, but still dragging their feet. I’ve been disappointed by Mazda NAO Customer Care failing to follow through on overtures already.

Well I understand where your coming from and I am NOT try to be inflamatory. Being a professional technician I can assure you drain plugs do get left loose, not often, but it happens and rarely do they fall out. The dealer is a seperate business entity than Mazda NA and a warranty only covers factory workmanship not dealer workmanship. The call as to whether or not the drain plug fell out is easy, it just wouldn't be there. I honestly hope Mazda NA offers you some sort of assistance but I don't believe they are obligated to. I can assure you a low oil pressure light did come on but who honestly is monitoring their dash all the time? I can think of many occasions I've been driving, looked down at the dash to see the low tire indicator on and think "when the hell did that come on?". Either way if all else fails I'd advise an insurance claim. Good Luck.

Thanks, I didn’t take your comments as inflammatory at all. Rather, the different perspective helps to keep the argument straight.

Quick point. There has been a lot of exploration on my end about the low oil pressure warning light. The wife was driving the car home from a long road trip. She is on the down hill side the mountain on I5 approaching Shasta. She is in 5th gear, 70 mph, in and out of cruise control, watching the tach and the temp gauge closely due to the road conditions. She’s also begun watching the fuel, preparing for her next fuel stop. (Not many options in that area)

When the car starts to shake, she looks down to check the gauges to see if there is an indication of something wrong. She sees nothing. No warning lights and the coolant gauge is normal. She’s thinking she has a flat tire and changes lanes to get to the right shoulder. As she is changing lanes, she sees the oil pressure light come on followed by the check engine light flashing.

I’m convinced!

I understand the claimed separation of relationship between Mazda NAO and the dealer. The words Authorized and the text in the Warranty Manual show something different, but most importantly the responsibility of servicing the warranty is Mazda NAO’s until they prove it to be the fault of another party.

It is a huge rude awakening to know that I wasted money having my car serviced at an Authorized Service Dealer.

[QUOTE=spheed3;150928 The call as to whether or not the drain plug fell out is easy, it just wouldn't be there. [/QUOTE]

Sorry one other item. I am told the oil drain plug wasn't in the car when it was inspected after being towed (cradle snatcher rear wheels on the ground) 130 miles to the nearest dealer.

I'm good with what you say, but who can say for sure?

I have not read all the threads here but I would be ****ing nuts about this entire thing. I would first make sure that there was no language in the new dealer taking over he business that took on the liabilty.

Second, I would see if there is any existing entity from the past dealer to sue and third but not last I would go after Mazda NA.

Mazda NA does have an agreement with the dealers for service. For instance you must go to them for your warranty work period. You only used the dealer that Mazda had this license agreement with. I am sure the it was your understaning that you were required to use them for your warranty.

That fact that this business entity no longer exists is not relevant.

I guess in a nutshell, if Mazda is not responsible than they cannot force you to go to the dealer for warranty service. They take on the burden of liabilty by having this relationship.

In his case it wasn't Mazda's or a Mazda service centers fault.

He didn't push Mazda at all. Again once the dealership found the cracked oil filter housing they said "Who did your oil change?" then they said you need to contact them in reguards to replacing the engine. He had a lawyer and everything going after Jiffy Lube but in the end it was just cheaper for insurance to take care of it, still awaiting a response from him. After lawyer fee's and proving who is at fault it wasn't going to be worth fighting anymore cause he could have bought a new engine.

You are in a way different spot as the dealer is the one that did the oil change. I would continue fighting.

I don't know if he filed a complaint. As of now it's been almost 1.5 years or maybe even 2 years now so probably not.

I tried contacting him however, he is difficult to get a hold of. He is done with the Mazda and doesn't look back. He doesn't really talk about it either cause he hates looking back on everything he went through. Plus it was a long time ago.

I understand thoroughly, I wouldn’t wish this on anyone.

Thank you.

Question for spheed3?
 

Your choice of words are very similar to the rhetoric I am hearing from Mazda NAO and the dealers, so I am wondering if you are a Mazda technician?

I have a question that may resolve some confusion, Does the ECM on an early 2008 Speed3 record a code for the Low Oil Pressure Warning Light when the engine is running at speed?

That data would serve to support (or refute) my wife’s observations.

Lexus technician actually. Our cars wouldn't record a DTC for low oil pressure but you MAY see something for a VVT malfunction as most VVT systems are oil pressure activated.

Thanks, I'll ask.

At what pressure would would you see a failure of the VVT vs. at what pressure would the oil pressure switch close?

On a Mazda honestly I couldn't say. If you have questions specificly for me please PM them so as not to clutter this thread anymore.

Does anyone have the answer to that question?

I was thinking that anyone be exploring oil starvation as a cause of engine failure might find it useful.

There could be many causes of the lubrication system not picking up oil.

add speed_3 to the list and Mlassek

add me to the list of shame.

bent #3 rod while shifting into 3rd at 3-4k rpms mid boost.
mods are listed in sig but with pg intake rather than the txs listed.
only seen mobil 1 oil until i put royal purple in last week (5-30)

Will do. Was Speed_3 just an oil plug missing/loose issue that caused the boom?

Add breakthestatic to the list please. Also make sure i still have my reservation ready

Do you have a link to his info? I haven't been paying attention lately haha. Sorry.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...g-downlow.html

is taz and just search break the statics created threads

I truly believe that keeping the combustion chamber clean has kept my car running strong for 46K miles. I clean it out about every 10k miles. I seafoam soak the piston tops for an hour or so then seafoam during idle right before an oil change. It helps prevent the hot-spots that are causing pre-ignition under high AFR boost conditions.

How are you running Seafoam through the intake?

There's a small nipple right down in front of the intake manifold that feeds into all 4 runners. I feed it in at idle slowly by crimping the hose going into the seafoam can.

Seafoam thread

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...-foam-cel.html

I still have to add the other motors, I'll try and get to it before the weekend.

Update?

Legally speaking, that's the beginning and the end of the story. Since the cost of a new engine while they f**k with you exceeds the cost of CA's $5000 small claims courts, I would have filed suit in "regular" court, and sent all parties a letter of intent when I first heard the word "no." But it's not too late.

The current ownership status of the dealer is irrelevant. Essentially, all that matters is that they were a Mazda dealer when they fubar'd your car. If they subsequently went out of business, the responsibility becomes Mazda's.

If this hasn't been remedied yet, sue them ASAP. You have a paper trail showing it was caused by a Mazda dealer. Legally, their status at the time of the event is all that really matters. You don't need a lawyer to do this, but some advice from a legal aid group in your area will make it easier for you in terms of logistics and wording.

The awful/great thing about suing people is that you can name virtually any party as a defendant, so go big. Dealer, Mazda NA, Mazda Japan, etc. Once they all get the paperwork, things should happen pretty fast. They will try to avoid a court battle because it's generally much cheaper to fix the car than send their corporate lawyers up to Northern Cal and deal with a small town County Judge.

If you haven't done so already, create a thorough log of all events and communications. If you're renting a car, include that in the tab. Same goes if you lost any income from the downtime. You can't get them for payments made on a non-working car since that isn't their problem. Fixing the car most definitely is, though. Get a quote from a functional Mazda dealer to swap the motor, including towing charges, and itemize every possible, post-failure cost that you can prove, and sue them for the sum.


You WILL prevail. Stop talking, start suing. You were harmed and are entitled to a remedy. Period.

Again, the current state of the dealer is irrelevant; all that matters is their status when they didn't screw a bolt in properly. Mazda USA is 100% responsible because of that.

warranty will not pay a fuck up, the dealer who did it needs to eat that engine plain and simple. Go after the dealer kep mazda out of it unless they won't work with you at all.

The dealer is gone and Mazda isn't/wasn't working with him, that's the problem.

Unless CA law has changed dramatically in recent years (not likely), Mazda is still obligated to fix it, since the dealer was their representative. You can't buy a Mazda without a Mazda dealer, so even though most dealer's are independently owned franchises, the manufacturer is left holding the bag if the dealer goes away.

I went through something similar with Ford a while back, and won without a law suit or a lawyer. Basically, one of their dealers fuctup my car and was denying it, and the factory zone rep took their side. So I informed the zone rep that I'd see them in court. Detroit got involved and covered the repair costs within a week.

Let's say you worked for Best Buy as an installer and you busted something expensive in a home while on the job. The customer would go after Best Buy because you were acting as their representative. It would still technically be your fault, but your Geek Squad uniform puts the actual liability onto Best Buy. You'd be fired, of course, but not held liable.

Basically, if the sign outside says "Mazda" on it, Mazda is ultimately responsible for their actions, even if the sign is gone after the problem happened. That's how the law generally sees this sort of thing.

hey thanks guys, i appreciate it....but you might wanna bump me a few more down, its not gonna be for a while car runs too good ;)

people with blown motors shouldn't be saying there car runs good....

Blew my motor a week ago.
I think its the #1 Rod/Cylinder.
Happened under light load. Daily Driving. Just Shifting from second to third gear and Kaboom. Dead. 5.6 Quarts frsh synthetic oil on the street. And coolant. Im fucking pissed.

Mods= Everything on cp-e website. Jordan Tuned.

I dont get it. Always a Rod. Mazda should be sued for such shit internals.
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/p...Attachment.jpg

Also i contaceted several dealerships to see if i could get it pushed thru under warranty.

They said:
"6 months ago we would have pushed it thru no problem no matter what mods you had" (Cause they needed the work)

Then they said:

"Mazda NA is cracking down on the warranty work so we cant push anything through"

GEEEEE wonder why mazda... not telling us something?
Maybe your worrried cause all your fucking shit ass fucking internals are pooping thru your blocks.

Hate to even say this but this shit dont happen to subbies or evo's

So whats your next step?

probably gonna remove the eye lids

Well im searching for a decent block to slap in the car right now.

But i just got sponsored by street unit and will be buying a brand new full forged block. Should have it in a couple weeks just waiting on some money from my other sponsor so i can get the ball rolling.

I could use any help that anyone could provide.

Seems to me like your already getting help. You'll be fine.

LoL already did smart ass. HAHA!!!.
I let this dick in my car club put them on. They looked like shit.
Coulda made my appointment for tinting the headlights and tailights if my car didnt blow.

It seems there is a significant number of rod failures. All reported blown engines I know of (here in Germany) suffered the same death. Apparently the rod comes lose from the piston. Interestingly it also happens almost always in light load / cruise situations.

where you in boost at all when it blew? any type of load, up hill or in fifth or sixth?

its funny that people think mazda is responsible for their engines after they put all the modifications they can on it. you know what you are getting into when you start modding.

JerseySpeed, I know you said you think it was cylinder 1, but did you have the BS taken out? how many miles on this change? what filter were you using? any WI?

Ok well what about the stock ones that are blowing with the same problem?

Whats the BS? Fram oil filter. No WI.

Happened at about 9000 miles. 5lbs of booost. No load. Flat road. Daily driving about 3-4000rpms in 3rd gear.

BS=balance shaft assembly, and was it the stock cartridge type or spin-on filter?

Stock cartidge.

Should we remove the balance shaft assembly?
I need to know cause im going to be building a forged motor.

How did your logs look? Boost? AFR? BAT?

Logs? Will my dashawk data log on its own without me setting it to?
If so i will check it.

But.. i always visually moitor it AFR was fine. No Knock. Boost was about 5-10lbs. BAT i dunno what that is.

More importantly, what were these params at WOT. What had Jordan set your max PSI to? What probably happened is that the rod was damaged at WOT, then failed at cruise.

Boost set to 18psi.
We leaned it out a bit at WOT.
Added 2 degrees of timing.

yes, many people think the balance shaft must be removed if the power is being upped in this motor. its still speculation, but it appears that the BS assembly puts unwanted load on the crank in one spot (the crank might not be the right word, someone can correct me on this, but basically BS=does nothing but cancel out vibrations/there for comfort only, not necessary for the motor to operate). There are numerous threads on this topic. Removing the balance shaft also gives you a another whole quart of oil capacity.

Also, myself and others would recommend going to the spin-on filters with the conversion. People have said the normal spin-on filters do a better job at filtering the oil, and also give a little bit more capacity.

With my last change, I fit about 7quarts of oil in with the BS delete and spin-on filter.

Another thing I am considering is an oil bypass filter. I'm still doing some research on this, but it seems that it wouldn't hurt for extra filtration.

So I assume ~12 AFR. If your BAT was good & no KR, that is worrisome.

so you were part throttle boosting in the worst rpm area to do it

now i know why you blew

That's a good point. I try to stay 2-3k with part boost. 3k+ is for WOT.

I still don't buy the "don't boost in this range" theory. The engine is capable of running through all operating conditions while stock.

However, yours clearly wasn't stock, so it's a bit more difficult to asses the issue.

That's not what he is saying.

FWIW, my car has never liked cruising at part boost below 4th gear at 3k+ rpms stock or otherwise. YMMV

Try cruising at 4k in 3rd. My car has always stuttered, even before I put my first mod on.

The car boosts when it boosts wtf.
Are you telling me this guy shifts before 3k rpms all day long just not to build boost.
That is the most retarded shit ive ever heard.

Bottom line is this. This motor is finiky as fuck and has shit internals and holds way to much heat. End of story.

If you think im gonna drive around alday shifting gears at 2900 rpms ur nuts.

actually i shift at 2500, and the problem is the ecu staying in closed loop and staying lean while boosting and kaboom

I shift by 3k when I'm cruising. I shift at anywhere between 3500 & red line when I'm WOT. I'm pretty sure that's how most people drive. I know that's what my car likes, anyway.

btw meth woulda solve your heat problem

Mine? Ya, that's why I got it.

still none blown with a bsd

and most cars going kaboom are sb cars, hmm

Sure it does. Do some digging, you'll find plenty of sad stories.

BTW, this motor is being used in soccer mom SUV's (the CX-7) and they aren't blowing up. Maybe there's some logic in the auto trans that controls boosted load conditions better, I don't know. I'm curious to see exactly changes they made for 2010.

But I do know you had a pretty maxed out motor with all that CP-E stuff. Can't blame Mazda for denying the warranty claim, the whole car industry is cutting back wherever they can because of drastic sales declines. The first thing to go is fixing some guy's built motor under warranty.

Anyway, sorry it happened to you, it sucks to have to spend loads of money to fixing a new car that should be under warranty. But I have to agree that this is where you tread whenever you're modding a car. And yes, I know even stock ones have blown too so it could happen to me. As their profits decline they're going to get much more aggressive about denying warranty claims. Other than an upcoming MS CAI, installed by a dealer to cover my ass, I'm leaving my engine bone stock. Even the CAI puts me at some risk though, in today's economic climate.

It's not even close to your situation, but I blew out an upper strut mount at 3200 miles. Warranty denied because of Koni shocks. It's just reality these days. The mount failure had nothing to do with the Koni's but it could have as far as a judge would be concerned, so it wasn't worth fighting over, I just paid for it myself.

why would you even take the car to a dealer when your modified or if your part has to do with what broke? thats just stupid in my opinion the dealer has every right to deny your repair under warranty if it was modified to run outside of factory spec.

Not sure if most are actually SBs (and in his sig he said he was tuned by Jordan also), but anytime you leave the tuning to the end use they are going to push it further than a tuner trying to cover his ass (and one might say more intelligent in these matters also :) ) would. Watch when ATR comes out you'll probably see plenty with the AP doing the same :pokey:

tuning dosn't work for this car anways short of the flashes so i don't believe the sb or the ap really work in thier respects. :P

I wouldn't say it's more standback cars that are blowing, just that the cars with more mods tend to use the standback.. The standback is effective and safe when used properly..

The tuning works, it's plain to see that pulling fuel with the SB or AP works, and anyone with a dashawk can see that adding or subtracting timing works. It's just some other part of the ECM's logic is holding us back/not allowing those changes to be as effective as we would expect...

I didnt ever take it to te dealer.
I knew some people that said they had a hook up and when it came down to it they couldnt do anything cause Mazda ws cracking down on waranty work.

6 months ago he sadi it would have been no pronlem.

Im building a motor, taking my head off this weekend to make sure its ok.

Buying a short block and sendin it to the machine shop.

No more crying and whinning.

thats the thing, there is no tuning solution that has shown to actually produce more power, instead of loose it, ive seen ap cars make more without the ap, and ron made more power with just the flash then with the sb