They measured the crankshaft endplay at 15 thousandths. Spec is 17-21, so it's within spec.

I examined the piston top and there were no pock marks, pits or holes that you would see from detonation or pre-ignition. The skirts look clean too. The cylinder walls still have the factory honing marks. The break in the rod is pretty messed up from all the banging around for the second or two before I pushed in the clutch, so you really can't see much there.

The bearings look clean aside from the damage they did taking the parts out. There is no sign the rod was bent at any time and I never felt off-balance pulses in the clutch. It's really looking more like metal fatigue or oil hydrolock. The only thing is that I cannot tell if it ingested any oil. They told me the intake manifold was clean, but I didn't have a chance to look at it cause they kicked me out of there when they went to lunch today. I have the piston and broken rod now. Is there any way to test the rod pieces for brittleness or metal fatigue?

The last 3 pictures are of the other 3 piston tops. A lot of carbon buildup.

I find out today what the decision is on the warranty. They said if it is covered, they will only honor a used engine replacement. They also said that there are no new engines available from Mazda anyways. If I wanted a new engine built(short block and head), I'd have to pay the difference. Does this sound consistent with an extended warranty? Any advise?

i would call bs on a used motor.

if you drive properly and this shit happens, whose to say the owner of the used motor didnt beat the piss out of it.

how do you know that 2nd hand motor isnt on the verge of grenading too?

what happens when, 6 months from now that engine pops, whose to blame?

im just playing devils advocate. I would demand a new motor.

make sure they transfer your 100k warranty and reset the clock

How low is too low? I think 5PSI at 3500RPM isn't too bad. Am I wrong?

I re-read my Mazda Extended Warranty and found this: "All repairs or replacements made at Mazda dealers shall be made using only genuine Mazda new or remanufactured parts unless otherwise authorized by YOU."

So, they cannot put a used engine in my car unless it is remanufactured.

Unless you tell them they can. Which is probably why they'll try to get you to sign something to do it first.

I do want to say to all of you....Be careful, Mazda set the power in this engine near the limits of it's parts, especially with their intake and exhaust. Add more stuff and you're in bad territory. You aren't going to get any forewarning before it throws a rod. Boost spikes of 18-19 psi is a lot of pressure in this engine and it's just a matter of time.

Good pics. I have some very quick comments and will add more later:

1. The piston top was hammered by the valves several time meaning it was stuck up in the bore.

2. The break in the side of the piston was likely done by the rod pulling DOWN on it ... again pointing towards the piston being seized in the bore.

3. There are some good scratches on the bore itself. Was the piston wedged in there?

4. The oil rings on the motor are completely coked. This was with synthetic??

Would you be interested in sending the piston/rod/bearings my way so that I can see it up close? I can send it back if you want it back in a couple of weeks.

For #1, There is an impact mark under the piston where the crank counter-balance had hit it real hard on one side. I assumed that is what cracked it.

PM me your address. And, yes, i'd like it back :)

Hell, I can send you the block too if you wanted, but I was planning on recycling it for the aluminum.

Was this something official or personal opinion?

EDIT: What I mean - did Mazda mention anything regarding the failure?

This is my personal opinion after reading posts for the past 3 years.

Looks like the rod broke in a different place from the photos I have seen of others, much further down toward the crank?

Bear in mind I know less than nothing in this area, but my guess would be your rod failed for a different reason than in most of the others motors

I dont buy that shit, the power is not near the limits it is more flaw than anything the hard parts are not weak

ok maybe the rods are not weak but they certainly aren't strong. The rods seem to be the only point of failure so it only makes sense to throw some of those badass carillos in there for peace of mind.

They look bigger in person, but I looked at rods out of a Saturn SL1 engine and they were not much smaller in cross-sectional area. Considering that engine is 100 HP, you would think our rods should have at least 3X the cross-sectional area.

counter balance impact.

Well, I just thought of an idea. What if I get a new OEM rod and take it and my broken rod to a university and have them hardness test them both? I know exactly where to take them because I took a Material Science class where we did that at another university. I assume that the engine and micro-detonations are working the metal, making it more and more brittle. It should be a straight forward test.

Tell them you want a brand new engine or you'll go to the BBB.

Mazda up here in Canada replaced my blown motor with a brand new long block and when I took my car in, I had an HKS intake, HKS ssqv recirc and a CPE turbo back exhaust installed. I even got them to reinstall my after market parts for $150 or so (they initially wanted $400+ to install my parts).

Tell them to quit playing games with you. I made sure to reference this thread and to point out that this is becoming a more and more wide spread issue. (I know there will people to argue this fact. Flame on)

Hmm .... these marks look a little like pitting on the top of this piston. Which cyl is this?

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...d-p1010180.jpg

Were the injectors leaking? Also, when was the last time you changed the plugs?

All that carbon is just waiting to auto ignite :(

It would be interesting to see what has changed with 2010. Has anyone heard of a 2010 blowing up yet. Surely Mazda would not make the same mistake twice.

Still where is those STOCK Mazdaspeeds that have blown?? Maybe these cars arent so easy to mod with just a bunch of bolt ons without having a GOOD tune for it.
I dont think these engines are any weaker than others..

Just look at RaceRoots engine for example, that thing should have blown almost at once if these engine where soo weak...

you do have a good point but with that giant t67 it only makes 428 hp for 600rpms. + it makes the torque much later.. not to mention its the ONLY engine making that kind of power. I guess I thought this engine could handle 400-450 easy. That shouldn't be too much to ask.. I mean my buddies procharged ls3 vette is making 790whp 720wtq on stock EVERYTHING... engine, clutch, rearend... granted its a 50k car, but the same goes for even the jetta, arent they making like 650 already!!!

Yeah about the torque.. if it was something that could be a problem, it should be all the torque u get in these cars in such low rpms.. perhaps thats the reason RR is having the big turbo and setting the torque to come later in rpms. I think it can handle 400-450 easy, if u know what u are doing. The ECU seems to be the bottleneck in those cars..

Like u are saying why can alot of other cars´Jetta/honda etc... make big hp, and not the mazda? Why would mazda build a cheap/weak engine? Since when did they build bad engines? i dont buy that its a weak engine or weak rods or whatever.. just bad tunes etc. just my opinion..

it doesnt work like that. a forged rod with the same dimensions is stronger than a cast rod. there is also a point where the rod will have so much mass that it will tear itself apart at high revs so bigger and beefier isnt always better

Yea, your'e right. I guess i'm just so frusterated. I do believe these rods are very strong for a well tuned car. I just don't believe the Mazda tune/engine design is quite right. The cars listed here blew mostly under odd conditions for an engine to blow. Because of this engine's design, there are modes that the SW cannot fix. I believe there is still a flaw in the engine design, maybe it's the direct injection. Someone wrote a post a long time ago that said Lexus or Infinity (can't remember which one) cars with DI are having major problems at higher miles with heavy buildup. I wonder if they added a throttle body fuel injector in this engine for cruise, if it would keep the engine cleaner and help prevent those odd modes.

I believe that was the one next to the #1 that blew (from drivers side). I looked them over real well when I was there and didn't see any pitting. The picture is hard to see with the lighting and all the carbon buildup.

They didn't check the injectors and the plugs were the originals (supposed to go 100k miles).

Are our camshafts hollow?

Subscribing to thread for weekly updates. Suggest a lot of folks do the same here to get status and causals. Plus dealing with warranty. Good luck ASIC_BEE.

I'm getting very upset here. The extended warranty is held by a third party, not Mazda. The adjuster and the dealership could not determine the cause of failure, so the warranty company said they won't authorize the repairs until a cause of failure is determined.

They are digging deeper now into the injectors, VVT assembly, etc to try and determine what caused the rod to break. Right now they are saying it's metal fatigue or a flawed rod, but the warranty company wants proof. It's too destroyed to prove these theorys. This is plain stupid. The rod broke. There are no signs of detonation or preignition, or overspeed. What else is there? They are also looking at the possibility of fuel hydrolock if an injector failed open, but again all the bearings look good, pisont tops look good, rings look good....Extended warranties are ridiculous if you need it to cover an expensive repair.

I am only allowed 6 days on a rental car by the warranty, period. Today is day 5 and it's going to take weeks to get a new engine IF they find a cause of failure, which in itself may take another week.

I'm buying a 2000 Saturn SL1 with a re-built engine for $1800 bucks from my best friend to hold me off for a while. 100 HP, I can't wait.....

Oh, and by the way, I will have to pay for my expenses in an arbitration if that is what we do next. And, I would still need to prove what caused the failure in that arbitration to get them to cover this mess. Is there any way to tie the serial number on the rod to other failed engines? Or is that number even a serial number?

Is there any way the HPFP bypass failed and forced fuel into my engine while I was engine braking down the hill?

The rod should be able to be traced back through Mazda to the manufacturer of the pistons to a particular batch. The likely-hood of Mazda putting this kind of effort in for you is slim unfortunately.

Hang in there man. Took Mazda 2 months to get my car back to me under warranty.

But this isn't under Mazda's warranty....Extended warranty contractor.

i would go thru their fine print and shit, you may find out some info u can use to push the warranty company into your favor.

Looks like it's going to be covered, but they said they would call tomorrow with their official decision. It also looks like they are going to ask the dealership re-use the old head after replacing the 4 bent valves and pay for a replacement short block. According to my contract they only need to replace any damaged part due to the warranteed cause. This is why they can re-use the head. I have a few options now (if it is covered):

My wife and I are undecided whether we are going to keep the car or sell it. We really need the $450 a month car payment for other things. If we keep it, it will be my project car for life; i.e. 400whp cp-e car as opposed to a different car later in life (a few years at least).

1. I can let them do the repairs and sell the car with a new short block and 60k mile head an pay off my loan. Car will still have warranty til 100k miles.
2. Pay the difference to have a new, full long block installed instead (May not be any difference if I buy the engine myself from a friend at another Mazda dealer ($3308 for 07-09 or $4258 for 2010)). Plus, my labor charges would be much less than what the warranty company agrees to pay to rebuild my old engine. Sell the car with warranty to 100k miles and new long block.
3. Pay the difference to have a new, full long block installed instead (May not be any difference if I buy the engine myself at wholesale). Plus, my labor charges would be much less than what the warranty company agrees to pay to rebuild my old engine. Keep the car and later put in forged pistons/rods, cp-e HPFP, cp-e DP, cp-e 3.5" MAF, cp-e standback II w/newest wall-breaking SW, Stage 2 clutch, PG Manifold, BS delete, PTP PVC fix, PTP Cams, cp-e motor mount.
4. Pay the difference to get the PG Forged short block and re-use my head, build..add other parts from above..???

Any advise from the experts? Can cp-e and PTP chime in here too?

Let me get this straight, you cant really afford to keep it because of the payment, but you can afford to pay the difference to build it and keep it?!?!

I think you have answered your own question.

Just say it like it is......
The wife told you to get rid of it cos she wants the $450 a month for "blank" (fill in the)
You are trying to talk her out of it by coming up with options, and want us to help you come up with good arguments for said "options", to put to "the wife" :spankme:, so you can talk her out of the "sell it!" argument she is throwing at you.............

Good Luck!

Personally Id sell it.



Yeah I know......... I'm an asshole.

Actually, the extra money would go into more savings and investment, which is definitely a better decision. The only thing is, I want to have a project car someday and will spend the money someday. I guess i'm kind of hooked on this car too. It was my first real quick car.

btw, you really didn't say anything that makes you an a$$hole!

It's tough to answer your question as it depends on your personal circumstances.
I would sell and buy something else (Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 perhaps).

Got the word today that the warranty company is authorizing the repairs including the teardown, a short block, and install.

Good luck!

Glad it's covered. Please don't forget to send the rod and piston my way.

Will do once everything is clear here. Nice talking to ya the other day, btw. Wife gets pretty pissed when the baby is crying and i'm talking car stuff on the phone.....

Do you still have all the stock parts?

If so, I'd give them to the dealer and have the whole things put back to stock.

Then sell the car in the name of domestic harmony. Nobody needs to know about the motor rebuild, just clean it up and get what you can for it.

And with the cash from selling off your CP-E bits, spend it on alcohol. You'll need something to help you through the transition back to sensible transportation.

Nice talking to you too and no worries about the wife and baby, car talk can wait, babies can't.

I am very surprised mobil1 burned up so badly in your motor and coated the oil rings with so much sludge. I've seen motors with synthetic that are clean as a whistle on the oil rings.

I mostly used amsoil full synthetic for the first 50k miles, then switched to Mobile 1. and used it for the last 10k miles. Amsoil is notorious for being the one of the best quality oils out there, so not sure where the sludge in the rings came from.

Ok, I got the ECU behavior from MAZDA Engineering!!!

"Throttle never closes unless the engine is shutoff. If engine shutoff, throttle closes momentarily so no fuel can go into engine and cause diesling, then opens and stays open.
In the case of coasting downhill in gear, throttle stays open, but injectors turn off. acts like an air pump."

Edit: "Throttle never closes unless the engine is shutoff. If engine shutoff, throttle closes momentarily so no air can go into engine and cause diesling, then opens and stays open."

What does fuel going into the engine and throttle closing have to do with each other? Dieseling? Are they talking about the extra special carburator model of the Speed 3?

If the throttle stayed open during coasting you would not see high vacuum readings in the manifold so ummm ... who is this person that replied to you? I'd love to ask them more "engineering" questions.

EDIT: I meant no air can go into the engine, not fuel. Sorry for the confusion.

The first statement was just in response to my question about when does the throttle plate close. They were just saying that the only time the throttle plate (air flow control) closes is when you turn off the engine. It closes to make sure the engine stops, then re-opens. I believe that is that noise you hear a few seconds after you turn off the car. It's the throttle plate re-openning.

The second description applies directly to my case. I was trying to rule out detonation or preignition and this confirms that it couldn't have been detonation or preignition that broke my rod since the injectors were shut off while I was coasting.

I called the customer service number for MAZDAUSA, 1-800-222-5500. They really can't guarrantee they will be able to get answers for you, but they try. They are just customer service reps and they pass your question to the Engineers. If they feel the information isn't proprietary, they will respond.

Yes, the injectors do close during coasting conditions. It is called and over-run fueling state. The throttle plate does not completely close during coasting - correct - but it is close to being closed.

Detonation is never a concern during coasting but damage done due to detonation can fatigue and deform a rod that will let go under high engine vacuum. Under vacuum the rod experiences the strongest "pulling" forces on its beam. Think of the beam as a very high strength spring. After enough cycling, if not designed for the load it is handling, it will fatigue and fail.

It seems to me that detonation is not a factor at all... of all the posts I've read from guys who had a rod break, and tore down the engine afterwards, there was never evidence of detonation, i.e.: pitting on the piston crowns. I cant say I've seen even one engine with a broken rod where anyone saw any evidence that detonation had anything to do with it.

Any of these engines have any signs of crankwalk?

My personal opinion. No evidence or fact to base it on.

Is that the problem is more likely to be a pre ignition event rather than detonation event.
Where the mixture is ignited too early in the stroke by something other than the spark plug, by lets say "glowing carbon deposits".
This type of event may not be picked up by the knock sensor and would produce massive extra force on the rod. Enough to throw it through the block.

I am not saying this is the cause, I am saying it is much more likely than knock/detonation, because of the lack of evidence of such knock/detonation.

You are right, the knock sensor will never pick up a pre-ignition event, since there is no high pressure spike. I have a short block in my garage right now with a bent rod with zero signs of detonation. I will have the block torn down soon, it might be crank walk, but more than likely it was a pre-ignition event. I will know more soon.

It has been my belief for a long while that preignition is why most MZR motors blow.
That is why the first thing I did when I got ATR was to lean out the AFR.
Leaner = less carbon.

A catch can would help in this regard too. But I dindt go that route, as I want quick and easy back to stock just in case.

Having said that it may not necessarily be carbon deposits that are causing the preignition, but at least that would help minimize one possible cause.

I also tend to think the heavy carbon build up is a major concern since it could easily provide a pre-ignition initiating condition.

Which is why I am using lots of Meth and have a OCC that I am going to install...

Noobie with a question: Can pre-ignition occur while off-throttle and the injectors turned off? If it does occur, will it cause the rod to break right away or would it weaken the rod over time like detonation would?

A pre-ignition event will kill the rod almost instantly.

The only way I believe a pre-ignition to occur while off throttle would be a leaky injector, or another fuel source i.e. oil being ingested. There is no engine that can live through a pre-ignition event, but most modern engines can live a while with detonation, but, and this is a big one, once the engine starts making more than 1.5 - 2 horse power per cubic inch it becomes very critical to keep the detonation at bay. Even with very short detonation event there will still be the signs, tops of the pistons will have some sandblasting effect, and metal flakes embedded in the porcelain of the spark plug.

From what I understand, pre-ignition is far more damaging to the pistons than detonation. A single pre-ignition event usually destroys the piston and/or rod on the first event. It is said thet it blows holes in the pistons, but I guess a snapped rod is just as good. I wondered if I had a leaking injector, but they can't test them at the dealership, so who knows. I also wondered if it was oil detonation, but there was no sign of oil ingestion according to the tech.

yeah I agree that preignition could definitely be causing this. We all have seen how the pistons usually have a ton of crud on top of them in a lot of the pics that have been posted.

I havent done meth or an OCC, I want to stay warranty friendly, but I do run a can of Seafoam/Deep Creep through the intake before every oil change. I had GREAT success with this stuff on a project car I had a while back.

Reminds me, I want to start replacing the PCV valve every 10k or something like that...

One thing though... wouldnt the overly rich condition that contributes to the extra carbon buildup, also do a great deal to cool things down and keep the carbon from getting hot enough to preignite the charge? Sorry if thats a dumb question.

Also, Havent we had people throw rods that HAD meth and catch cans?

You are right....The pre-ignition event can burn a hole in the top of the piston as well as creating a massive amount of pressure in the combustion chamber over a long period of time. I think why we do not see the holes in the tops of the piston is maybe the thermal inertia of the piston will with stand the heat long enough to bend or break the rod before burning the hole in the top.

What did you plugs look like?
Was the car runner a little hotter than usual?
Do the cylinder walls look scuffed?

I would think that a well-designed OCC wouldn't void your warranty, since everybody knows they are better for an engine than a PCV system is. But Mazda's job is to cut their losses, so... Besides, in California at least, you have use an OEM PCV system to get through a smog check. The CARB insists that all those stray fluids and gasses get burnt in the engine, instead of shed into the environment. Nevermind if you put the grizzle from an OCC in to your used motor oil tank and dispose of it responsibly, they mandate PCV's. Period.

It's been said before, but this motor wasn't designed from scratch for direct injection, it was an add-on. I don't know if they got it quite right yet, but I do know that revisions to the PCV system have been made since the DISI motor was introduced. Still, I'm amazed about how much mystery junk fills up an OCC that would otherwise be dumped back into the intake manifold - without the benefit of fuel detergents to clean it up.

As for engines with methanol systems and OCC's installed to combat the problem blowing up too, well, apparently it's not enough.

One product I've had good luck with in the past was Mopar Combustion Chamber cleaner. It's specifically made to clean carbon from the combustion chambers. Works a bit differently than Seafoam, which I'm not fond of, but if properly used it does dissolve carbon buildup very well. You don't put it in the fuel or oil, you spray it into a vacuum port with the motor just runnning a bit above idle, and let it sit for 3 hours, then drive the car hard to blow out the result. Lot's of cat-clogging smoke will be produced, but it really did wonders on my previous cars.

I'm hesitant to recommend it on these motors though since it was formulated to be sprayed into a throttle body that the DISI motor lacks, but I payed a shop to visually "scope" the cylinders and they as were clean as an OR. Much different motors though. And I spent a lot money replacing the cat's on my last car because the CEL was throwing a failure code, so it would't pass smog. Ran great though, passed the sniiffer test with ease, and the engine had zero carbon buildup in the cylinders after 85K.

Point being, if pre-ignition is actually happening from carbon buildup, this stuff WILL remove it. But I take zero responsibility if it does more harm than good on your car though.

What I wouldn't do is use a piggyback ECU that leans the AFR out in any condition. I know from my shitty mpg that the stock ECU just dumps fuel to stop detonation. But how they got a motor certified to dump so much un-burned fuel into the air is a mystery. And "Italian tune-ups" just make it worse. I haven't even pulled a spark plug on my car yet, it only has 10K, but I'm concerned.

I'd like to solve the problems without voiding the engine warranty, and if running too rich too often is the real culprit, shame on Mazda. Personally though, carbon buildup is an especially bad thing on pressurized motors, so a plug check and maybe a dose of Mopar CC is in order.

And I like the idea of replacing the PCV every year, even on a stock car, since that seems to be a constant issue. At least on the pre-2010 versions, which have a different ECU and yet another revision of the PCV system. It's probably a better combo, but I can't legally change them in my state. Besides, the ECU is integrated into what used to be called the "body computer," so it might do more harm than good. Plus, it would obviously void the warranty, and make it impossible to pass a smog check, since the ECU is essentially married to the VIN number, which their machines look for right away.

I agree with ASIC_BSEE that it couldn't have been pre-ignition that broke the rod as he says he was coasting with his foot off the throttle when it popped, so no additional fuel would be sprayed into the cylinder then.

I could see carbon deposits being of concern if he were ripping around in high boost and cylinder temps got hot enough to cause the carbon to glow, which could ignite injected fuel before the spark does.

Just to be clear was not suggesting that ASIC_BSEE's case was caused by preignition directly while engine braking. Impossible.

Could there have been some damage due to pre ignition and then the rod gave way under the tension of engine braking..... maybe.

All I did was post my theory on why I think "most" MZR motors blow, it was not related to anyone's particular case.

Personally, in ASIC_BSEE's case I would suspect some kind of flaw in the rod metal.
Just because it broke in a different place than the other rods I have seen pics of, further down toward the crank in a thicker part of the rod.
It may be too mangled to tell, but I would be interested to see if there is evidence of bending on that rod.
Or evidence of a flaw in the metal structure.
Again, just speculation from looking at the pics.

good stuff

Stop Already:

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I got the word that the short block was ordered and they should have an ETA this week.

I owe my dealership a HUGE thanks for all they have done. They really have gone out of their way to diagnose my car and get this whole thing resolved.

That's really good news, very happy for you.

How much did that extended warranty cost you, and what company is it?

ASIC_BSEE.. did u have a tune?

A friend who has a MS3 -07 was called in to Mazda to have his ECU reprogrammed.. some update. One of the update he was told was a torque limiter in gears 1-3, some early -07s doesent have this, all later models should have it. That could be a problem maybe if u dont have it.. just a thought... anyone heard of this?

Looking through these pictures here ... always the same story - the rod get sslightly tweaked so now the beam is not straight - or it was never completely straight stock. After this the car continues to run but the rod is loaded off axis on every stroke works the metal ... kind of like bending a wire back and forth. This can last for a while but eventually the rod fatigues and snaps.

Thing is that most of the time no one will notice a slight bend in the rod and the rod will let go at an unexpected time after it's been worked enough. The rods seem to be quite malleable from that point of view. Definitely a forged metal - not that it matters at this point.

Has anyone noticed this type of a change in ATR's stock style maps?

The extended warranty costed $1960.00 and it is through Automobile Protection Corporation (APCO).

Stock tune, not sure which update it was, but I had the fuel pump TSB done a while ago and they did a reflash at that time.

Wow that's expensive, but it sounds like they came through with great service. Thanks for the info.

Details about how it happened
 

I used to drive my MS3 like a rent-a-car:drive::drive:, and I have never had an issue with it. I already spent a lot of money on parts including a gt3076r, and I am waiting for the fuel pump to arrive, so I can start putting stuff on and tuning. I am really worried about blowing my engine up, and I am wandering if the problem that every body that blown his engine had good lubrication. Did they change the oil when they were supposed to? Were they monitoring oil pressure? Was the engine receiving enough fuel? Every body is talking about what happened, but no one have given those details yet. When I say monitoring I am not talking about a dash-hawk. Did anybody have gauges to monitor that? Did they look at them, or they just had them because they look cool on the dash? :ugh1::ugh1:To be honest I have a lot of things to install, and all I have is a boost gauge for right now. I am wandering if a good stand-back tune would prevent me from having that issue.

I just read that entire ptp thread on oil hydrolocking the motor yada yada.. any verification on that? or anything? I just wanted a reliable fun DD with a bit of power but it potentially looks like a big headache coming my way

In all honesty, keep it stock and if anything happens, Mazda can warranty it.

If you want to modify it, get the MSCAI2, MS catback, MS spings or coilovers and be happy with it. It is a fun car in stock form.

If you feel really brave, add a Cobb AP and get a tune done. It will be reliable and fun to drive. For dealership visits, uninstall the Cobb AP and TAKE THE UNIT OUT OF YOUR CAR.

The biggest thing is to get a good tune done when you add a modification. Even with an intake, you should at the very least, calibrate your MAF sensor.

That's my opinion.

I hope I can have a solid warranty on a used version, not get owned if they find out the car's been previously modded or some shit

Check this picture out that my friend took of my blown MZR engine

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2662/...302b014e_b.jpg

This really sucked but my cars back up and running now. running better than ever!

^ Details on how it blew, etc etc?

I was previously running and AccessPort. Cruising at 60MPH on the highway just started seeing smoke and then a pop. Pulled over to find a large puddle of oil on the ground and me stuck on the side of the road. After inspection of the engine by friends we found the engine running to lean. The turbos exhaust housing was all white and powdery. Spark plugs completely fowled.

My engine met all the requirements for stage 1 and 2. from speaking with my friends i realized that not all OTS (off the shelf) maps are created equally and that due to the altitudinal conditions my car is under it will directly affect my A/F ratios.

We have a tuner that will be coming to Hawaii to tune my new engine and goodies when they arrive!

Were you cruising on flat ground or up/down a hill? Was it set on cruise control? Also, when you saw smoke did the car stumble at all? Was it a huge road covering cloud of smoke?

Did you have a fuel pump installed and noticed any weird issues with the car prior to the blow?

Thanks for the info, just doing a bit of a survey of blow-ups - it's a bit of a hobby :)

to further elaborate on what i mentioned... for the past two days I've been noticing bellowing white smoke coming from my tail pipe. This happens mostly at idle. I'm due for a PCV valve change and definitely a oil catch can. I also looked into the PTP stop smoke fix and I'm still smoking. It went away late yesterday but I'm still concerned because my new engine has less than 4k on it now. Unfortunately I didn't buy this car new and at 32k it blew. Who knows what the previous owner had done to it. I suspect it had an AP on it previously because there was a cobb sticker in the engine on the radiator support when I got it. car was bone stock though.

I'm still not running my AP though.

cruising on a flat road, no cruise control and no stumble from the engine when it happened. huge amount of white smoke when it did happen.

unfortunately no fuel pump internals or pump installed due to it being unavailable. I'm ordering the PTP internals though.

no worries. Glad someones taking the initiative to get to the bottom of these issues.

Not sure if this is important or not...but according to Mazda (dont ask how I know) this issues is directly linked to Hydrolocking due to Too much fuel. How many people had upgraded Fuel Punp/Internals? I would still think is a hole in the ECU) but supposedly the cause is that the system gets more fuel than it expects (during a certain situation) and it hydrolocks because there is too much fuel in the cylinder.
ALSO, there is a section in the ECU that monitors and records when and If the ECU is changed. so SUPPOSEDLY they know when you change it...even if you set it back.

Dont flame me...just sharing what I heard from mazda (while they were working on 2 engines that were blown)

So will Mazda revise their tune to lean things out a bit in the affected areas and issue a recall to reflash our ECU? Did you hear this from a Mazda engineer or a mechanic working at the dealership?

Interesting info but it's hard to believe the engine hydrolocks on fuel. Is this an issue with the calibration, injectors etc etc? Need a little more info regarding this.

Are you saying that the motors are getting to much fuel because of the upgraded cdfp and thats causing people to blow? Last time i checked more people blew with the stock fp than having an upgraded cdfp so that doesnt really hold to much ground imo

Hydrolocking from fuel (except for leaking injectors)? I call that BS... (or someone did not understand right what was said). Turbo engines have been running A/Fs lower than 10:1 in the past and it wasn't an issue. The unburnt fuel is evaporating and cooling the combustion. The only thing that might happen in this context is that the oil film on the cylinder walls is washed out.

Didn't say anything about it..... :/

I agree....I said they were nucking futs to expect me to believe the engine Hydrolocked. Not sure if its Cal, injectors or what. But happens at that magic 3000rpm, 1/2 throttle situation.

Spcifically said hydrolocking with fuel. Could be leaky Injectors (Maybe Upgraded FP causes this to happen more?)


Cant really get more info...Mainly just sharing the explanation that was given to me. I only believe a little of it. Maybe the issue isnt the Rods, but more towards faulty injectors that fail and flood the chamber? Maybe thats what causes the rod to bend, then fail after being operated bent? Personally (and I am no expert at all) I think the issue is more what causes that rod to bend a few days before the engine blows. I think all would agree that if you put a bent rod in an otherwise perfect engine/system, eventually that rod will break. We also all know that hitthing high boost at Low RPM (which our ECU does at 1/2 throttle a little under 3000rpm) is very stressful, and would be a logical point for a fatigued part to fail.

I don't think anyone has actually identified an event that caused the bent #1 rod, but the majority of the blown engines have them. I think it is understood that the rod gets that slight bend, then is driven till it fails by the piston, breaks, and makes a spectacular exit from the engine.

There are still questions on the Hydrolocking theory like why is it always #4? I would think if it was a failing/faulty injector, we would see an even distribution over all cylinders? If there is some truth to the theory, and a cylinder had a partial hydrolock event, and then was driven for ...say... 3 days, what evidence would there be of the event other than a slightly bent rod?

I don't buy that theory at all. And haven't most of the failures been cylinder 4? I know it was cylinder 4 in my car.

I think that whoever told you that was either making up stories to appease you or perhaps was grasping at straws.

According to PTP doesn't the motor get hydrolocked on motor oil?

have any engines blew after doing the "BS Delete"?

Yes

thanks

I also experienced clutch vibration before my engine blew. sorry I didn't mention this earlier.

I'm not sure I buy the fuel hydrolock theory just yet. If this new theory purportedly from Mazda is fuel-hydrolock, they could avoid the mess by recommending more frequent oil changes and/or there would be some serious unspent fuel issues that would make MS3's fail smog tests miserably.... But, the excess fuel issue would explain the awful mess that appears in the catch can, from some of those "settled out" catch-can links showing a 3 layer mix of oil sludge, moisture, and then fuel at the top (using colors only, not true catch-can fluid analysis).

MS3's do burn rich, but fuel hydrolock seems far fetched unless it happens over time and too much dilution of oil which would show up in a used oil analysis one would think.... The reduction of oil sheer due to fuel would be a big signal warning in the UOA....so, I don't think I buy that theory....

But, if anyone who joined the onerous zoom-zoom-boom club does have a history of used oil analyses handy, that would either add or detract from that theory. If oil sheer loss does seem to creep in over time, or those club members went beyond recommended oil changes (which I doubt), then the fuel hydrolock would make maybe more sense. And, if those same folks had a lot of PTB (part throttle overboost), it may all combined to show the total story. Good thread info though...... Like the mystery of the building of the Egyptian Pyramids, nobody knows how it all happened, but it sure is there.

I'm getting my car back today! I'll keep you all posted.

I changed my oil every 3k miles with full synthetic. Go back a few pages, I gave details about maintenance. I always monitored OBD-II KR and EGT, but the only thing I watched on gauges was external Boost gauge, oil pressure light (Never saw it come on ever) and engine coolant temp. Any other type of physical add-on gauge risks voiding your warranty. Maybe not an oil pressure gauge.

Your turbo seals are leaking. The prior owner probably was running higher boost and hot EGTs which equals higher RPMS on the turbo more coaking and more wear. Also, I was told by the a Mazda tech that the oiling system in this turbo is not optimal and recommended an after oiler system.

My failure was while coasting, so If mine was due to a bad injector, the dealership will see me again soon since they were forced by the warranty company to re-used the top half of my engine.

Just to clarify, the dealership said cylinder #4 is the one on the driver's side, not the passenger side like stated on post #1 here.

Doesn't cylinder #4 get the most heat due to the stock exhaust manifold design?

Go the car back. I gotta say my dealership really did a good job. I looked the engine over and everything looks good, no damage that I can see. No visible leaks so far. Engine sounds smooth at idle and runs smooth on the road. The body looks free of any door dings, scratches or dents, but I won't know for sure until I wash it.

They were very nice and the bill came to $517 including the deductible. I can't complain at all considering how persistent I was with them and how much hassle it was for them. They went the extra mile for me to see this through to the end. If they or Mazda sees this post, I want them to know I appreciate the excellent service. Thank you!

Glad to see you're back on the road! Did they give you the blown block?

Thanks,

That's what we originally felt was the problem but wanted to see how things play out and if we could find a viable solution for the problem other than... a) getting a new turbo b) downing the car and sending it to someone to rebuild the turbo which will eventually go again due to the way this turbo is built.

I think I'm going to look at getting an upgraded turbo. My friend knows a tuner that will be able to fly out here and dyno/road tune my car correctly.

Only time will tell

I decided to leave the block with them, but I did take the other 3 pistons and rods. I could probably still get the block if I call them today. Did you really want me to save it?

Just Ordered My pistons and rings. Cant wait to start the build :)

Saw this too late :( It would have been interesting to take a look at. I guess it's too late now.

I've been waiting 2 weeks to find out if i can post in this thread or not and today i found out.

I'm officially getting a new engine under warranty!

Then I'm selling this POS and getting something that isn't going to die after 40k miles while bone stock. Anyone have a guess for how much i could get for a Black 2007 MS3 with 40k on the chassis and 0 on the engine? The car is in great condition besides this mechanical BS which is on the way to being fixed up 100%. This is my daily driver and I need something more reliable, i was hoping for a nice balance of fun and reliable with this car. Maybe the previous owner beat on the engine, maybe it was just a dud, either way I'm done before my warranty runs out (35k left). Oh, i also have a Cp-e catted DP which i never even got to install if anyone wants to make an offer on that!

I think i might buy an RSX for my daily driver and maybe down the road pick up a 240sx project with a sr20det.


p.s.

Car; 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 with 40k miles.
Cylinder; #3
Damage; nothing evident, low compression and CELs
RPM; missing at idle other than that ran fine
Mods; none
Exhaust Manifold; Stock
Situation; CELs, dealer replaced Fuel pump, injector, and o2 sensor before compression testing
Warranty; new engine for free!
Oil; synthetic

just blew my engine last week!!! I have a hole in the front and the rear of the block. Going today to look at it and probably take pictures if they still have it on the lift.

I was driving under normal casual conditions...shifting from 1st to 2nd and had the RPMs under 3000. No oil light. no warning of any kind.

MODs Injen CAI, Corksport Turbo Inlet, Corksport TurboBack, PTP fuel pump internals, PTP PCV fix, Cobb AP.

Warranty denied due to lack of proof of maintenance (Oil changes etc) and MOD's

damn that sucks... i feel your pain completely.

were you running an OTS (off the shelf) map as well or were you custom tuned?

generic Cobb maps

if Iremember right you know Audra? She has a boosted sedan. Well we've taken her in as a sister but shes in Iraq right now and should be home around Sept