any used oil analysis?

yeah those generic (OTS - off the shelf) maps can be really bad due to the fact that the AFRs on each engine can and will be different. I ran the AP with one of those maps too and my engine was running really lean due to my altitude and climate.

Are you asking me if I know Audra?

just curious....
has any 09 speed3 been documented to blow?
I havent seen any around...

add me to the list... sucks!

Negative. The dealer (a mazdaspeed dealer at that) put the car on a lift, removed lower fairing, saw the MODs, and denied warranty due to 1) Lack of proof of maintenance(i.e. oil changes and 2) MODs

My fuel trims were good. low RPMs raised them but I never drove under 3000RPMs.

Yes, do you know Audra ?? LOL.

What year is your mazda?

2008.5 GT Mods: Modified Injen Cai, Denso ITV22 1 step colder, TurboXS DP / RP with magnaflow hi-flow cat, HKS catback, Cobb TI, TurboXS FMIC, PT-P Pill, Perrin OCC, MazdaEdit @17psi.

2008.5

just spoke with the NorthWest Regional MazdaNorth America rep...and it was like talking to a brick wall.said she couldnt and did not want to over turn her tech guys, the dealer, etc. and after hitting the brick wall a few times I asked what options do I have to get my car on the road and she responds with "thats on you". I said well if I get an engine can you help out with the install..responce "no". so I asked. if I had installed just an intake would I have the same outcome-responce"If you had installed a Mazdaspeed brand then no" This is highly illegal vs. the Magnusson Moss Act. If I had the time and the money I'd fight this. However I need my car now being my daily driver and having kids. I will never buy nor encourage others to buy new Mazdas from Mazda. Only to buy from private sellers or used lots. I will never after buying 2 Mazdas and having plans to buy in future ever buy another Mazda where Mazda US gets any income. They have shown no interest in helping a customer in any way. They had no concern in why the engine failed(never investigated the problem, therefore not wanting to know if its a reoccuring problem in their cars). AT LEAST Toyota is doing something about their problems!!!

Reply of the month, FF, well done!

BTW, WTF is "Audra?"

And this surprises you why???

I'vew spoken with people that work at other dealers of other manufactorers and they said they would at least help in some way(at owners cost) to get their car on the road. Mazda did no such thing. I asked where I could get a new engine. Responded with we wont get you one. THis attitude suprises me. I may have modified a car but I am still a Mazda owner. Why one company wouldnt want to help such a consumer suprises me.


Audra is here, well deployed from here in Wa state. Shes been to a couple of our meets before she shipped. Should be back here in Sept and in her car hitting our meets up. Nice Boosted Sedan. FIrst one I've ever seen in person and maybe first sedan I've heard of. very VERY nice and clean car too.

p.s. ALso suprises me that she sounded like she had no clue what the "Magnuson Moss Act" even was. This federal law is a big thing on the Modification scene and should be well know through the community as well as manufactorers.

you said it yourself...you don't have the time or resources to fight it. if you do, then you should buy a beater car and find a lawyer.

And having Mazda source you a new motor and asking them to do the install is probably a bad idea. You'll probably get slammed with a $8-10,000 bill. Your best bet at this point is find a used motor on ebay/craigslist/junkyard and having a local shop install it for you. Since you are in Washington, you should contact PT-P, they might be able to help you out.

+1 " Since you are in Washington, you should contact PT-P, they might be able to help you out." Call John, he is building a short block for me.

I can't imagine that a dealer would refuse to sell and install a new motor at your expense, that does sound strange.

But the other guys are right - for what a dealer would charge for a stock engine, a good engine builder can use your mods, beef up the internals, etc. by rebuilding a used motor. Your powertrain warranty is gone anyway, so you might as well go that route.

Navy girl? My mom lives on Bainbridge Island, and there's a casino just across the bridge where a lot of Navy types from Keyport(?) and Brmerton hang out on weekends. One time at the bar an under-age Navy guy was buying a Coke. I said "hey dude, if you're old enough to serve our country, you're old enough for a REAL drink, you want one?" He was like "Hell ya!" So I bought a double Jack Daniels to slip into his soda pop. It was pretty slick, he just casually held his Coke below the bar so the cameras couldn't see it while we chatted for a couple minutes, then I took the JD and dumped it in while the bartender was distracted!

Anyway, sorry about your car. Sounds like you're in a better frame of mind. What are the 4 stages of loss again? Denial, grief, anger, and acceptance? Sounds like you're moving through them pretty well. :) And you learned a valuable lesson. Bummer that the Northwest Mazda rep was such a tool, but especially since their split from Ford, they're under a lot of pressure to really clamp down on costs across the board.

I can get you an engine at a little over wholesale + you woul dhave to pick it up at Ron Tonkin Mazda in OR. Let me know. Sorry about your car :(

Out of curiosity...... how much would that be.

anybody have a fmic with 93 octane regularly used? if its an overheating issue thats causing it then im sure the fmic and 93 ocatane will help

38,6@@ called MAZDAUSA, replacing TURBO TODAY, SMOKE OUT THE EXHAUST, PCV BLOWING OUT THE OIL FILL CAP (SHOULD BE VACUUM), WORN OUT TIRES (THREE SETS) BRAKES ARE SHOT, BOTH FRONT AND REAR, REPLACED FRONT WITH STOCK PADS OUCH, DID THEM MYSELF OF COURSE, CLUNK NOISE LIKE A BAD BALL JOINT IN A 1970 TRUCK FROM THE FRONT, GEAR SHIFTS FUNNY IN 2ND, 3RD, AND 6TH. FULLY LOADED 2007 GT, MAY 2007. I SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT A LEMON. THE DEALERSHIP TOLD ME MY WARRANTY IS UP 3 YEARS, 36,000 MILE LIMIT. I TOLD MAZDAUSA, THEY CAN HAVE THE CAR BACK PERIOD, SMOKE OUT THE BACK AND NOW THERE BLOWING SMOKE UP MY @$$. SO FIX IT OR KEEP IT. I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS CAR. DON'T WANT YOUR GEN 2, AND JUST GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK, BONE STOCK NEVER DID ANYTHING BUT DRIVE IT, ZOOM-ZOOM, BOOM-BOOM.

THEN AGAIN I COULD HAVE GOT THE FIRST ROTARY ENGINE THAT GOT 10 MPG, AFTER THEY FIXED THE PROBLEMS, BACK WHEN THE WANGLE CAME OUT, COULDN'T PASS SMOG AND THIS POS WON'T EITHER IN 2012.

BOTTOM LINE...

JUNK.

UPDATE: Got myself a stock 2010 MS3 engine long block at dealer cost !!! Well..just over..it was DAYUM CHEAP though!! Zero miles zero problems. I am installing it myself. Sat/sun last weekend were the first days. I am doing it on FT Lewis at their auto shop and hopefully it will be 90% complete Wed night when they open back up. I am taking pics along the way but it will still be difficult for me to do a "how-to" thread as there are different ways you can do this. I have a buddy that came up from Ron Tonkin that helped for one day (best day of the 2). All in all this has been an experience. If I deploy again (National Guard) I will be getting all forged internals....COMPLETE. And then we can all talk !! Thanks for the support guys !! Pics to come

Second brand new motor has already blown. I give up.

Mods? Tune? Mileage? Hard driving habits? Tromping on it below 3000RPM?

WTF? Still bone stock, I assume? Did they use any parts from the old motor?

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA.
dumb bitch.
something tells me there is some operator failure here.

like i told u the first time u blew up........ user error can never be overlooked. and now second time......the odds.....


get a corolla..... i hear those are great race cars

How did this one happen?

probably flooring it at 30mph going up a hill in 4th.
fuck it...what were those things msfers told me not to do????

does she speaketh?

None. No. 3k on the new motor. I drive it hard occasionally. I do NOT get into boost below 3k per research here and on other boards
No, the motor was completely new from Mazda and the turbo.

yeah yeah, fuck you two as well. You can give as much shit as you like, but to me you're just as dumbfuck blind as the RX-8 guys who thought their cars were immune to any motor failures. Now they're all dropping like flies. :laughing:

Read above. I have taken care to drive the care carefully almost always and when i am getting on it i never got close to redline, kept it below 6k, always let the boost build gradually ABOVE 3k, and always downshifted to accelerate. It wasn't even time for the first oil change. The motor barely runs and is making a loud clanking noise.

Regardless of the fact that I never did such a thing (as a person who's driven standard cars for 16+ years who knows it's not good to lug an engine, to always downshift to accelerate), do you all think it is acceptable for a production car to throw rods if boost builds at a low rpm? I have never heard of ANY other car that has the same problem. that doesn't even sound like an acceptable issue: "hey man don't give it too much gas or it'll blow". Sound like an engineering flaw to me.

^ Sounds like a lemon to me. Is the noise rod knock? Other things can bang around. Are you taking it in again?

Some quotes from my friend who is much wiser than some people debating the topic:

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...azdaspeed3.jpg

:sucks:

I think it's more likely a rod knocking than anything else. the noise before was a "smaller" noise and that was the valve heads bouncing around in the cylinder.

Someone else brought up the point that it could be bad injectors or a bad tune, but as far as I know the car is stock and running rich to the point of black smoke coming out of the exhaust, so the car leaning out isn't as plausible.

how long was it running for before the 2nd engine went?

About 3k miles. it was installed in late march, so it's been under 2 mos.

maybe the problem is that you're getting information from someone who's used to using a 20 year old engine, old technology, and a simpler ecu and trying to compare that to the mazdas.
it's a fact, that if you load this car up down low, it's not good.
too much load.
it's a fact, regardless of what ricky crow and his 20 year old crx is accustomed to doing.

The "dont load the car up early" applies to vehicles that are modified and outside the parameters of the stock vehicle and exhibit boost spikes and such fun behavior.

This new motor is either a lemon, wasn't installed correctly, there is an underlying issue carried from the old motor, or you did something to break it. Simple as that - take it back in to the dealer.

That being said, I have seen many DISI engines blow and I haven't seen any that lost valves like your first motor did which looked like a timing chain/mechanism issue or severe over-rev.

I tend to agree with her. I'm be more than willing to bet Mazda would not release a car that can't take flooring the throttle below 3k RPM bone stock without blowing up after 3k miles.

I'm more apt to believe that the mechanics screwed something up when they installed the 2nd engine.

how would it run for 3000 miles and two months if it were installed incorrectly?
and do you really believe your first statement?
this has been ongoing for a long time now.
many people believe that due to the small turbo and its quick spooling capability, the torque loads the engine too much too quickly.

The word is in: #2 cylinder had a valve head that sheared off again. This is not the same issue as a bent rod. I have been adamant about using Chevron 93 or Exxon, whichever is closest, but always 93. I don't think pre-detonation due to carbon buildup would be the exact cause in that respect. Mazda is having their tech come out to inspect the motor again. We'll see how it goes...

I will talk to the tech who installed the motor last time and see if they did anything with the timing mechanisms. I would think if these motors had timing chains that they would come with new ones from the factory. That or if they had timing belts that they would install a new belt/tensioner.

i see alot of yapping about connoisseurs yet we still blow 2 times in a row.

i really think this car is obviously too unreliable for your type of fail driving. get something ricky crow would recommend.

in the meantime ill keep beating the shit out of my 70k miles, 22psi pumpinf fully bolted k04 ms3 ........

You're so sure it's just me, huh? How about we trade cars when I get a brand new motor and you beat on this car and see if it doesn't have an internal failure again.

Improper timing, bolts not torqued to capacity letting go...? There are a ton of different scenarios that could cause to a catastrophic failure after a couple thousand miles.

And what does the size of the turbo have to do with anything? SRT-4's have tiny turbos, make loads of torque at a low RPM and don't have any problem. VW GTI's have the exact same turbo as us...why don't more of them blow up completely stock?

We're talking about a 100% stock car here, not a car with full bolt-ons and a half ass tune. I'd put money down that a good 85% of MS3 engine failures were due to crap tunes that caused detonation, but I don't believe for a second that a 100% stock car is just as likely to blow as all the fully bolted cars we've had blow up.

Hmmm valves shearing off again ... meaning piston/valve impact again ... meaning timing fail again.

I've always got that one moment of 6 degree knock I got at WOT at about 18PSI around 5000 RPMs in the back of my mind. Oh well... car's running strong for now.

i am 100% down. ive been trying to off load my car for 2 years

Thanks. That's good info for me to make some deductions. :)

lmao Why??

Probably the same reason I am trying to get rid of my car.

Once you have modified it, it is no longer fun stock.

Modified, it likes to blow up. There are several people who have not blown up, but many that have.

When your engine blows up on you once, it is like sheer terror driving it again. I hate driving my car. It's fun and quick on the current setup (Intake, TBE, Forge V2 BPV, Cobb AP) and makes me grin, but the constant thought lingers... When is it going to blow up again?

thats why i stick to the cai.

no need to mod it. its quick enough.

speedgirl no disrespect, just curious what was the break in procedure you used?

I'm inclined to agree.

I really, really like my 60K powertrain warranty, and intend to keep it intact. Yes it would be fun to have a faster car, but I bought it new for 25K out the door, and the front end was struggling for power grip on the test drive.

If I want a faster car I'll buy one...if or when I can afford to.

But if my very well maintained stock motor blows, I'm covered. I need that. This is not a race car!

And FWIW, I take no "special care" to avoid the RPM and throttle input zones where most engines let go. Why should I, it's an un-modified production engine that's never been abused, just driven like any other car I've ever had. And as you can see by the Fuelly graphic in my sig, I don't drive it like an old lady, because I get god awful gas mileage just keeping up with traffic, and occasional forays into non-competitive track days just for fun.

So if the motor let's go and there's a warranty "issue," Mazda will lose if it comes down to a fight. I know how to deal with shit like that. BTW, did I mention that my motor is stock?

BTW, I still love this car!

But the extra ~120 ft-lbs of torque is sweet... :439:

untill it blows. as a dd its better to just have fun with it as it was intended.

Well, good luck with it MSGirl. Whatever the cause, if it happens a third time, get rid of it or take it to a different dealer for repairs/install.

i hope it does happen a third time

IDifferent strokes for different folks.

We all drive our cars differently and we all have different ideas about what this car should be.

Cheers

the only way that you can drop a valve with out drinking some water is missing a shift or not knowing how to down shift you can sit at a stop and floor it and the rev limiter wont let you over rev it it will just sit there bouncing off the rev limiter if your driving and go from 5 to to first then the transmission will over rev the motor and then its boom these motor have timing chains and the motor come complete you dont use old parts from motors they come complete its called a long block short blocks dont come with that

after reading this i kind of want to return my car back to stock and go sit in a quiet place for a while

no need to worry man, yes people blow but that doesnt mean you are. Theres a thread out there and ill try to find it after i take my smoke break (haha) but most of the people that blew were tunning etc. my personal opinion or theory is that people were tunning and didnt know how to properly do so. They were modifying which is great but either were using ots maps or not tunning the car to what it exactly needed. If your worried about blowing though theres always the option to do a few quick bolt ons and demod if warantee work is needed.

When you think about it our cars are pretty damn fast as is and modding is an adiction. Trust me lol. I may only have a cai but the amount of time i spend looking at diff things to buy lol, oye!

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Mazda pretty wrung out the ole 2.3L as best they could, but neither Ford nor Volvo adopted it (this was back when they were still friends). It wasn't designed from a clean sheet of paper to produce the power it does.

IMHO, considering what they had to work with, and go it alone with development to meet a price point, they did a pretty good job with an old engine as a starting point. Remember, at roughly the same time, they got Ford to sign off on the rotary Genesis motor...which was also not adopted by any other F/M/V vehicle, but Detroit signed off on it anyway.

Basically, when they were all friends, Ford pretty much gave Mazda just enough rope (and money) to hang themselves. Now Mazda is on their own, with 2 motors that are only in Mazdas.

Why? I don't know. But we all know Ford used the T5 Volvo motor for their latest Focus RS, which is based on a newer/better platform than any Mazda3, but is unique to Ford. It remains to be seen if their technology sharing contracts extend beyond the divorce, but there has to be a reason why the Turbo DISI motor is exclusive to Mazda, when Ford or Volvo could have just dropped it into any number of vehicles, back when they were still friends.

BTW, Volvo has nice new inline 6 and a pretty good small V8. That also aren't found in a Ford or Mazda vehicle.

Point being, this motor is a loner, exclusive to Mazda. It isn't a bad motor, I just think they got the most out of it that they could on their own. And I think they did a pretty good job as a small manufacturer going it alone. They worked wonders on the 3.0LV6 Taurus motor, but the turbo 4's needs a little more care and feeding, and clearly don't like to be modded a lot for big power.

But how much power do you really want in a front wheel drive car anyway??

Bone stock, it already has problems with torque steer on uneven surfaces on it's current platform, so IMO it's just not a car to make too much out of. Race teams have tried and found it lacking, even with custom ECU's. It has aero problems, suspension problems, etc.

The suspension can be tamed though, and you can get about 10% more power out of it cheaply with factory parts that won't void your powertain warranty.

I understand the fuss, and feel deeply for those whose motors have blown, but I also feel this car is not a good project go-fast car; it's just a reasonably priced, nicely equipped, affordable car that just needs a few inexpensive tweaks to be a fun, reliable, solid, and trusty ROAD car.

I like mine a lot, even it's current state of tune (stock motor). If I were dumb enough to take a car with a 60K powertrain warranty then void it with thousands of dollars of go-fast parts, and the motor blows, well, I would have dug my own grave already. Bummer, but the point I'm trying to make is that the stock motor is already pretty much running near it's limits from the factory.

That doesn't make it a bad engine though. It just means it's not a great engine to extensively modify. Especially if you like your warranty; I sure like mine!

^ It has aero and suspension problems too??

Ya, it has a rear lift issue that I hope to visually document soon. And the stock suspension issues are pretty well documented already.

But what did you expect for $25K, a Ferrari 430?

Suspension we're well aware of - but I am very curious about this lift issue. Spoiler is only aesthetic?

I'm not sure of this lift issue you speak of.

I've had her up to 240km/hr (150mph) and it felt planted.

I suspect the larger rear spoiler of the MS3 reduces aero life a little bit. But not much.

Basically, it comes down to the "wagon" body style, they're conducive to lift and their isn't an easy way to stop it. I know of a race team who was commissioned by Mazda to make the gen1 MS3 competitive. They tried a number of different wing shapes and locations, but wound up with a large wing in essentially the stock location, but it still didn't work very well...and wasn't legal under the rules.

They decided instead to use the sedan body. Which virtually ever team uses in touring car classes when given a choice. They can put a big wing on the trunk and stay within most race rules that don't allow a rear wing to extend further than the body.

In a corner?

So much for the hatch STI ... and even others such as the caddy CTS-V wagon - a serious speed machine.

In a corner?

The problem with a "wagon" body style is they leave a large, turbulent void behind them, which tends to cause drag and instability/lift. Granted, there are some touring cars that run square back body style, but they generally aren't front runners.

You can mitigate the lift or even create downforce with a really big wing on the roof, but that would cause so much drag that I doubt a stock MS3 would even hit 150. Or 140. They're already drag limited to about 152-153.

Didn't realize you were specifying in a corner. Obviously not doing that speed in or out of a corner with this car.

Sorry if I challenged your internet ego.

LOL, you didn't challenge my ego, it was a genuine question.

I've gone about 130 in a 15 degree banked corner (a NASCAR oval) and it wasn't too bad, but I could feel the car getting pretty light in back. I've also hit about 145 at an undisclosed location, straight line, reasonably smooth surface, and while the rear end didn't take to flight it did feel light though. Not too bad though, just got my attention.

Is your car lowered? Mine isn't but it would probably help if it was.

Lol. Sorry, I'm used to dealing with twats on the internet.

I am currently on stock suspension. Soon to be on the Mazdaspeed springs since they have been sitting in my garage for two years. Too busy driving to have them installed I guess :)

No worries, I know how it is.

150mph with the stock suspension is quite fast. You much have great roads up there in Calgary. If I tried that on a Cali highway I'd probably be dead already!

Lol. I'm actually 3 hours north of Calgary but I hear ya.

We have some pretty nasty roads. The speed run was done on the track of course.

Geez, 3 hours NORTH of Calgary? How bad does the sledding in Summer need to get before you can drive your car that fast? On a track, of course.

Hey wait, isn't this thread about blown motors?

FIXED

I think I like this thread better when it's not all doom and gloom!

Anyways, back on track.... Who blew up today?

Not I. Just 22 PSI of meth fueled fun here:phillyb:...

Well, I can't really call it a blow up, and looking for suggestions/help here.

2008 MS3 GT 17,150 miles. All the standard mods, AP, DP, FMIC, CC, MSCAI

4 weeks ago I had just installed and aftermarket fuel pump due to fact I had all the other standard mods and wanted to be sure and protect my engine. Well after 3 miles on the test drive I downshifted into 2nd and got a steady misfire, at about 5 MPH. I was monitoring fuel pressure the whole time and everything seemed to be within normal psi ranges. The dreaded "blow up at low rpm engine load " went through my mind, but I have always been careful not to load the engine at low rpm, and was not doing so when this happened.

Turns out I did not blow, but something inside the cylinder and banged up the plug all to heck. No rod through the block or anything as it turns out.

I returned the car to stock and took it to the dealer, after 3 weeks of waiting I was notified yesterday by Mazda that they are denying warranty, that they see no evidence that their parts failed, and something foreign was introduced through the intake system. I don't see how that could be as I had not had the CAI off in months and had driven 500 to 1000 miles. I am going to pay the dealer to pull the head off and see if something broke that caused the issue. That is correct, all Mazda had the dealer do was pull off the valve cover and stop, didn't go any further once they pulled the foreign piece of metal from the cylinder.

So not fully blown up, but I am reaching out for any websites or resources that sell or talk about engine blocks, rebuilds, etc. so I can start getting a plan together to either pull the engine and attempt a rebuild myself, or have the dealer do it.

The car had always driven excellent up to this point, and I had no issues after putting any of the mods on.

Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.

Were all the parts you installed new?

I am thinking that perhaps something was inside your FMIC or intake piping that needed time to work its way into the manifold and chamber. A really unfortunate event indeed.

It sounds like they removed something from a cylinder, what was it?
Did you see what they removed?
Was it identifiable?
Pics of said foreign object?

Seems an awful coincidence that this happened immediately after fuel pump install.
Did you loosen or remove any part of the intake/intercooler system to make the fuel pump install easier? To where something could have dropped in there?

My guess is a spark plug tip. If they could pull it out through the spark plug hole, it can't be any bigger!

Oh, and FWIW, I've been getting driveabilty stumbles during light loads between 2800 and 3200rpm lately. Smooth idle, no probs at WOT in that range, but there's definitely something going on there during little or no boost.

Stock engine though, and I just drive it like any other car. If the ECU has problems in that transition period, and the motor pops, I'm good as far as warranty. Don't have a Dashhwak or anything so I don't know what's happening, I just feel it driving around town n city traffic. It's not my job as a customer to work around a stumble with a completely stock drivetrain, but I will take it in for it's 30K service and mention it, just to cover my ass. I'm at 13K now so that might take a while.

But I really don't care. The best possible outcome is that it will grenade in the next year or so and Mazda will put a brand new engine in the car so I can feel better about keeping it longer if choose to.

The piece they pulled out of the cylinder was about the size of a nickel and mangled, unable to tell what it was originally. I just found out Mazda denied warrnaty saying something foreign was introduced into the air intake. BS on that I think. I did take off my cobb intake when I did the fuel pump, but was ever so careful. And I would think it would have taken out my turbo first. The plug was bashed up, but still intact. I just cannot believe Mazda did not at least have the dealer shop take the head off to examine. I have asked how much it would cost me to do this. So far the local dealer is at least acting like the care, we shall see. There is always a chance I dropped something in the intake, but doubtful, especially since it would have been pre-turbo. I let the car idle for 25 minutes as stated when installing the new fuel pump, then was on about the 3rd mile of the 1,000 rpm to 4,000 rpm break in drive, watching my boost gauge to be sure I did not go into boost.

I did actually start the car a few times after it was towed to my house, kept at idle, and only for a few seconds when I was on the phone with the company that sold me the aftermarket fuel pump. They tried to be helpful. When at idle most of the time I heard no noise, a couple of times I heard some clinking around in the engine, but not always. I know I am hoping for a miracle that no damage was done to the cylinder, but I know it is doubtful.

The size of a nickle, that is pretty big, I doubt something that big would have made it through the turbo with out destroying it, and I cant even imaging it making it through the intercooler.

You sure its not the head off a valve, sounds about the right size.....
Isnt that what mazdaspeedgirl or (whatever she is called) have happen....... twice??
Head came off number two cylinder valve.

Well I believe it is cylinder #2, 2nd in from drivers side? Might not have been quite the size of a nickel, part isn't around the car any more, probably sent off to Mazda, but it was at least the size of a dime or more.

I just don't see how I could have dropped anything in when I worked on the fuel pump. And I had 500 miles on the car since the last mod, which was a FMIC, but I blew air threw all the tubes etc before installing. I am hoping the Dealer won't want an arm and a leg to take off the head so I can know for sure, and have piece of mind it was not a problem caused by the engine and move on to what I will do next. Which will be either rebuild, replace, or trade for a CX7. I already primed the new car guys yesterday by test driving one. If the numbers worked out on what they would give me for my car, I might consider it. But I would sure miss driving the MS3.

I think you have enough evidence if the turbo isn't damaged. no way a piece of metal could go through the compressor without mangling that too. just sounds like another lame attempt by Mazda to get out of a warranty claim.

I know exactly when the con rod in my engine got bent; it was at 10 psi of boost in 3rd gear at 2800-2900 rpm after a 20 minute drive at 40 mph in 4th gear on my way home. It knocked like crazy and I got out of the throttle right away. The engine was making a tapping noise right after this happened. I limped it home (this was a Friday night) I took it to work and removed a couple of mods (test pipe, PTP HPFP, PTP balance shaft delete kit and oil pan baffle) I could not see any damage to the con rods at that time.

I took it to the dealer and they decided it was a "Top End" noise and pulled the head off, did a full valve job, replaced the timing chain and tensioner (this took almost a month in the shop) When they called and said it was ready I went down and picked it up but it was making the same noise (maybe at slightly less volume but the same noise). I called them Monday morning and told them it was not "fixed" and they told me the factory rep told them that Mazda was all done and were not going to do anything else for me. Keep in mind I had owned the car for 3 years 3 months and 39,950 miles. I was holding their feet to the fire on the Driveline warranty. I was driving the car back and forth to work but not doing anything crazy with it.

I finally got tired of talking to the service writer and the lead mechanic and asked to see the Service Manager. I spent an hour in the SM's office with the Service writer. I took a lot of information that I had found online (this site and others) about some of the problems that have been going on with the DISI engines. I had pulled the valve cover off and checked the valve clearance and then did a leak down test, #3 cylinder had over 55% leak past the rings!! The other 3 cylinders were all below 8%. I asked if they had done a leak down and they said they had, I asked them to look in the records and see what the test numbers were. GUESS WHAT, they had the same numbers BEFORE they pulled the head off and did the valve job, they did not check it again after they did the work.

The SM told me that the District Service Rep from Mazda was going to be there the next day and if I would bring the car back he would discuss it with him and show that the noise was still there. I told him I would be back and thanked him for is time. As I was getting into my car the SM and the Sw were walking down the sidewalk right in front of my car when I started it, the noise was there and they both heard it, the SM asked me to open the hood and he listened very carefully and said "We Are Not Done With This Yet".

On the way back to my shop (less than 2 miles from the dealership) I was pulling away from a stop light with a cop car in the lane next to me and at 25 mph at about 3 psi of boost in 3rd gear it kicked the #3 con rod out of the engine. I had the car delivered back to the dealership (less than 40 minutes after I had left the SM office). The next day they called and said they had "ordered" a new engine and I should come and get a loaner car.

This car had done the "big knock" twice before both times after more than 20 miles at freeway speeds at a steady cruise and it happened either at the end of the off ramp as I pulled away or at the very next stop. I am sure the crankcase breather system was causing oil to puddle in the intake manifold. When they had the head off the first time it was in for work there was oil in the intake manifold and signs of some oil in the combustion chamber. I have done 3 open track driver's schools with this car (I'm an instructor) and put between 125-150 miles each day with no problems at all so it is interesting that the problem happened after driving the car at 40 mph for 20-25 minutes at low engine speeds and less than 10 psi of boost. I have oil pressure, oil temp, water temp, boost pressure (with a tattle tale) and Intake air temp measured at the throttle body gauges that have been on the car for about 34,000 miles so I have been keeping track of the engine for most of its life.

I now have an oil catch can on the line between the intake manifold and crankcase with an extra check valve between the manifold and OCC. I also have Oil catch can on the line from the VC to the intake pipe with a one way check valve on the line. When the engine is on boost the valve between the Intake Manifold and the OCC closes and if there is any crankcase pressure it is allowed out through the valve cover and through the check valve into the occ. When there is vacuum in the intake manifold it tries to pull a vacuum in the crankcase because the valve at the VC is closed so no air can get pulled through the engine and into the Intake manifold, the only air available is just blow by. In 3000 miles I have taken less than 3 tablespoons of liquid out of the Intake manifold catch can and none out of the one on the valve cover. I used a bore scope to look into my intake manifold after a 60 mile cruise on the freeway and found no sign of oil or moisture at all. I'm still keeping track of it but I have hope.

I don't think this engine has "WEAK RODS" at all, I put almost 300 miles on a connecting rod that was so badly bent the rings were not seating any more, one that was making so much noise that the service manager was shocked to hear it at idle. My engine "Hydro locked" it's self on its own oil. BTW I don't LUG the engine but I have never been shy about getting on the gas in all the gears 1-5 in the 2500 rpm range; it pulls like a freight train. This was a specific event that caused the damage and as far as I am concerned it had nothing to do with "WEAK" parts or lugging, it was a bad design of the crankcase breathing system and intake manifold design that allowed the oil to puddle and then at the first time I tried to accelerate and opened the throttle enough to move a lot of air that puddle got "sucked" into one cylinder in a quantity big enough to cause HYDROLOCK.

Just so you know I restore Vintage Racing cars for a living. I have been building race engines for road racing for the last 20+ years. I have done BMW, Porsche, Ford, Chevrolet, Ferrari, Alfa, VW, Cosworth, BRM, and Coventry Climax engines and have seen my fair share of engines blown up. This is my street car, my daily transportation not my race car, I'm not looking for 600 hp I enjoy the 256 HP I'm getting right now (I have my own dyno). I have driven over 175 different race cars over the years, everything from a 1926 Stutz to mid 80's ground effect F1 cars, 700 hp Can Am cars to 120 hp 900 lb Lola sports racers, that is me in a 917K Porsche in the pictures. 250 hp in a 3200 lb station wagon is a lot of fun but I am not trying to kid myself into thinking it is anything other than a fun street car.

Sorry about the long rant just needed to finally get this off my chest.

Boosties
Car; 2007 MazdaSpeed 3 91,000 MILES
Cylinder; unknown
Damage; unknown
RPM; see speed
Mods; Cobb SRI, Corksport TP
Exhaust Manifold; Stock
Situation; 30 MPH, going up a hill i'm guessing it's about a 50 degree incline
Other: Same situation as member s-retire.
"There was no indication of low oil condition prior to engine failure. The low oil pressure indicator light did not illuminate until after the motor quit. There was no increase in operating temp."
Warranty; no warranty, car is over 60,000 miles

Well more on my saga of the piece of material that bounced around in the cylinder, and just to recap, 2008 MS3 GT 27,135 miles so should be under warranty. Since Mazda denied warranty saying something was introduced into the intake, I asked the Service manager to quote me labor to just pull the head. $600 is what he told me today, more than I had thought it would be. So the dilemma is do I just throw $600 out there hoping that a valve is broke and maybe I can go back at Mazda for warranty, or tow it home and try it myself. I am mechanically inclined, but last engine I rebuilt was on a 1966 Corvette 327 engine LOL. I have a 2nd vehicle good ole reliable 98 Jimmy to drive so the MS3 could be in the garage as a summer project. But I just don't know how involved this would be, past the obvious. Also, if I was to tow it home, take the head off myself, find a broke valve, do you think not having the work and discovery done by an authorized Mazda dealer with give Mazda North American ammunition to deny warranty again?

The Service Manager did say the $600 would of course apply towards labor if I got lucky enough to just need work done on the head, if the cylinder is not scored. But no way to know what I am looking at as far as repairs until that head comes off.

I am going to try and get a picture of the piece of material that was pulled from the cylinder and post it. Cannot really tell what it was originally. But I did see a pic on another site of the under side of the head, saw the color of the valves, and the piece of material did look dark like two of the valves in pic I saw. Probably wishful thinking at this point.

Anyway, I appreciate the listening and the input.

Byron, hope you got my PM and can answer. I appreciate your insight. The scenario you described is quite common - high KR after highway cruise ... but I am not convinced it it hydrolock for several reasons:
- I used to be able to induce this knock/KR spike with a boost spike after hwy run at will.
- The "resonance" picked up by the knock sensor is not the same for a detonation event and hydrolock so you shouldn't see KR on the dash hawk in the case of hydrolock unless the event damaged the rotating assembly.
- I had an oil CC with a secondary PCV for a year and could induce this condition. I only alleviated this problem when I reduced dynamic compression ratio and boost spikes.
- The PCV system is designed in such a way that "large" amount of oil are very difficult to find themselves in the intake manifold at once. Oil vapor sure.
- If this condition is present on the hwy, I presume the same condition would be present when cruising at say 30mph in the city. Or even under high vacuum at idle for example.
- If oil was hydrolocking the engine that accumulated under vacuum conditions, we would see a lot of Duratec motors blow like this as they have the same PCV system setup. Duratecs have been sold for the last decade in many vehicles.

Looking forward to your thoughts.

There is also the design of the intake manifold, the throttle body and majority of the manifold it's self are below the intake ports in the head, it may be that this intake manifold design is prone to allowing the oil vapor to condense and puddle in one spot. It would then take a sudden flow of air or cornering to move it so it would go down one runner into a single cylinder in one intake cycle to do the hydrolock damage. If the amount of oil is not large enough to fill the chamber and cause the hydrolock condition it would sure cause a knock, smoke , running issue like many have had ( including me on other occations) but it just takes that one time to do the damage.

I am certainly inclined to think prolonged highway cruise is an operating condition that lends itself to knocking and that many of our motors go out in similar ways to what Byron experienced. Here's something interesting - we are not alone. The Cobalt DI LNF motors suffer from a similar issue.

A GM engineer describes what he believes highway knock has at the source. This is similar to my findings/feelings and both our motors and the LNF operate in similar ways. I have highlighted point of interest in red.

I hope this clears up some confusion on knock and how many of the motors go to heaven. Remember that our engine is 9.5:1 static CR compared to the LNF 9.2:1 making it more knock happy. Also, they have a smaller motor meaning less ability to spool the turbo and boost spike and shorter stroke meaning they are less prone to bending rods.

http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f...visited-61506/

Moar from wikipedia:

And yet moar ... this is gold boys and girls ... http://www.eurojournals.com/ejsr_34_4_06.pdf

Well do I ever have egg on my face. Not Mazda's fault at all. Not sure how I dropped something in the BOV intake but I did. Very small washer or something, See pics. Not sure how it kept out of the engine for the 100 miles it did. Thing is, engine looks almost like I could put a plug back in and drive it. Obvious pitting on the piston head. The valves look good, #3 cylinder was the cullprint, head is pretty pitted up. Mechanic said the valves moved freely with the cam.

The cylinder walls did not look or feel scored. You can see a vertical line, but cannot feel it with fingernail or finger. Mechanic didn't really say, "oh yeah" that cylinder is screwed, but did worry about small material between cylinder walls and rings. He did also say compression was at 90, other 3 where at 160 or so. I am going to buy a new or rebuilt engine, but I just think that pulliing the rod and piston and replacing the piston and rings, it might run. The mechanic said the pitting on the head could cause problem with combustion due to the way the fuel is "atomized" at high pressure. Anyway, take a look, thanks for the comments. Lesson learned, double double double check everything.

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Doh!

Anyone know of someone or a place thats selling a 2.3l disi turbo motor...mine just blew after 82k miles... -.-

Details on how it blew?

mine just blew after 91k miles, can someone tell me why there was oil in my intake tubing as well as around my filter?

My guess is that it was coming from the valvecover vent because you were getting lots of blowby because you perhaps had a bent rod or poor compression. Did you make a hole in the block or just run out of oil?

I have seen a few used engines out there, 1 on Ebay motors for $2,995 or offer and $450shipping, others for around $3,200 to $3,400 with or without shipping. You can also use the CX7 engine. I am going with a new engine from the Dealer for the warranty. They quoted $3,950 for the engine. Plus I think I can get them to knock about $1,000 or so off of the $2,500 labor they quoted to drop the old engine and put the new one in. I don't think they would negotiate on labor if I source my own engine. Rebuilts sometimes are costing more than new.

I am wondering what I will be able to sell my old engine for. No low end damage, just some ever so slight scoring on the one cylinder, and head will probably need to be reworked. I could put a spark plug in it today and it would run, just lower compression on one cylinder. How long it would run for might be another question LOL.

I have a couple of emails from places that have given me a quote if you want to pm me I can forward their info to you.

The dealership said it just ran out of oil

waranty info
 

I just blew my friggin motor. 19,000 miles.. not on the gas, just coasting in 4th coming up to a red light.....BOOM! im reading all these posts and getting scared.... Has ANYBODY had luck with the waranty? If so what kind of shit can i expect and look out for. Any help would be great. Thanks

that sucksssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss....welcome to the blown up club