MazdaSpeed 2.3L DISI Turbo Blown Engine Resource Thread

[ILSpeed308]

I'm still fairly new to the forums so I don't have a post count high enough to reply to PMs, so if you have a question for me, post it here. I'll be monitoring this thread, updating you all with my status. Here's my reply to you lex.



1. First of all, how many miles were on the car and how many were modded?
- about 27K miles (almost all highway). Only about 8K modded


2. Were you using flat foot shifting?
- Never flat foot shifted the car.

3. Did you do any hard pulls with the car a few days before it blew?
- Nope. The car has been pretty much babied other than on the dyno and the few times I had a civic or cobalt SS think they were hot shit.

4. Before it blew did you get any weird signs from the car such as vibrating clutch, smoke out the exhaust ... anything out of the ordinary the few days or weeks prior to the blow-up?
- None whatsoever.

5. Was your fuel pressure dropping under WOT?
- If I remember correctly, it held nicely above 1500cfm (missing a digit?).

6. What stage map were you running?
- I ran the stage 2 + FMIC 93 octane for a while before the custome tune.

And no - no ticking or anything. Day driving - I had the radio on but it was low. I didn't even hear anything when the rod snapped - just the stutter afterwards.

[Speed3D3MonDK]

U were running 20psi on the stock turbo

[ILSpeed308]

well with the FMIC it would hit about 20 and then drop down to about 16 after 3rd gear. Again, it was only boosted like that on the dyno pretty much. Plus the car was not tuned aggressively. I'm pretty sure I've seen other people boost that and not have problems...am I wrong?

I should mention, I have logs from my AP on a 3rd gear pull. At that point, my fuel pump was hitting 1600-1700 psi. The only thing I noticed is my AFR dipped to about 9.75 at about 5500rpm. If you would like to dissect the log, here it is.

I'd appreciate any feedback you'd have.

Third_Gear_Current_Plugs.csv

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by ILSpeed308 2. Were you using flat foot shifting? - Never flat foot shifted the car.

That is what I was wondering..... nope

ILSpeed308

Im curious.
91 or 93 Octane fuel.
Was Cruise control on when you blew?

Sounds like I could blow at anytime...... gulp. Cruising at 70. Wow.

[rObErT28]

Any MS3 with blown engine for sale here?

[ILSpeed308]

I run 93 only and typically BP gas only if it's nearby. Still waiting to hear back from the dealer too.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by ILSpeed308 well with the FMIC it would hit about 20 and then drop down to about 16 after 3rd gear. Again, it was only boosted like that on the dyno pretty much. Plus the car was not tuned aggressively. I'm pretty sure I've seen other people boost that and not have problems...am I wrong? I should mention, I have logs from my AP on a 3rd gear pull. At that point, my fuel pump was hitting 1600-1700 psi. The only thing I noticed is my AFR dipped to about 9.75 at about 5500rpm. If you would like to dissect the log, here it is. I'd appreciate any feedback you'd have. Third_Gear_Current_Plugs.csv

In both pulls, something very strange happens near the end of the pull. It's as though the throttle is released and re-applied very quickly. Was the car cutting out or was the pedal released and re-applied?

The boost in one pull looks like this:

12.62
14.07
14.94
14.36
13.63
12.91
-2.03
16.24

And the second pull

7.25
12.33
13.78
15.37
16.39
15.66
15.08
15.08
2.03
19.14

Another strange thing is how much air mass your MAF is reading:

70.48
108.1
145.21
175.63
211.63
234.82
247.07
257.03
95.45
257.95
270.08


Almost 260 grams/second is tall order for a stock turbo at 14-15psi.

[8.5MS3]

check out line 158 in the log,

his pedal position drops to 0 then back to 100%. either he lifted his foot for a split second or the signal from the sensor got disrupted. Everything on that line drops significantly.

IL, did you lift?

EDIT: NVM saw the RPM and looks like a shift point on both pulls

What is odd tho is that you were pushing 20psi and werent making that much power for your mods. what type of dyno were the numbers from? Buddy wasnt making proper power for the amount of mods he had, and it turned out he had blowby in a cylinder. couldve been the culprit for you too.

[Speed3D3MonDK]

No, bet he didn't lift, and two times exactly the same, not happening, it's a sensor issue, mine has it also, usually right around the time Boost kicks in.

[8.5MS3]

Originally Posted by Speed3D3MonDK No, bet he didn't lift, and two times exactly the same, not happening, it's a sensor issue, mine has it also, usually right around the time Boost kicks in.

look at the logs again, both times the rpm drops by over 1k, its a shift, not a cut.

hes just datalogging so many parameters that the frequency is very low

[Lex]

It's strange that the shift seems to be followed by a shot of boost and then he lets go.

[8.5MS3]

I noticed that when I logged a lot of parameters with the ap, they didnt always line up. his timestep is about 1 Hz. Lots of readings can change in that instant and some probably did before and after the ap took the reading. Maybe he kept pulling thru the shift to get an accurate pull from start to finish in a gear??

[ILSpeed308]

I'm sure it was a shift that you guys are noticing. Numbers were from a mustang dyno, so that may explain why they seem a bit low.

And by blowby you mean the PCV was not functioning properly? I'm not too technical when it comes to the workings of a motor - hence why I'm here.

I never felt or heard the car detonate, but I did have issues a while back after putting my FMIC in....

The car seemed to hesitate under boost for a split second. That was before the IVT22's got put in. I put those in at a .026 gap and the issue went away...for a while. I thought I was running too rich and fouling plugs out, so i bought another set, gapped them and the issue went away again but seemed to return after a while. On the latest set of plugs I hadn't had it happen at all. Any ideas?

And if you see me shift and then let off the gas it's probably because I was on a 40mph speed limit street at the time.

Do the MAF readings seem that out of ordinary for this intake? I also had the COBB Turbo Inlet installed if I forgot to mention before.

[8.5MS3]

Originally Posted by ILSpeed308 I'm sure it was a shift that you guys are noticing. Numbers were from a mustang dyno, so that may explain why they seem a bit low. And by blowby you mean the PCV was not functioning properly? I'm not too technical when it comes to the workings of a motor - hence why I'm here. I never felt or heard the car detonate, but I did have issues a while back after putting my FMIC in.... The car seemed to hesitate under boost for a split second. That was before the IVT22's got put in. I put those in at a .026 gap and the issue went away...for a while. I thought I was running too rich and fouling plugs out, so i bought another set, gapped them and the issue went away again but seemed to return after a while. On the latest set of plugs I hadn't had it happen at all. Any ideas? And if you see me shift and then let off the gas it's probably because I was on a 40mph speed limit street at the time. Do the MAF readings seem that out of ordinary for this intake? I also had the COBB Turbo Inlet installed if I forgot to mention before.

BLOWBY - good quick explination

My buddy's symptoms were lack of boost until high rpm, sluggish throttle response and a bit of smoking from time to time

[ILSpeed308]

okay but I didn't have any symptoms like your buddy really. never smoked and it would boost fine at low rpm also. the only problems the car ever had were the hesitation i mentioned above.

FYI - Log from a warmup if anyone is interested. I don't see much to gain from checking it but more eyes on it may help.

Here it is.

warmup.csv

[Speed3D3MonDK]

looks like your gonna need a new dynotune!!!!!

[ILSpeed308]

Originally Posted by Speed3D3MonDK looks like your gonna need a new dynotune!!!!!

why do you say that? does it seem like the tune was not performed well? the car seemed to pull a lot smoother afterwards and made what i think are decent numbers on a mustang dyno. i have the flash saved in my AP for later if i need it.

[802MS3]

no upgraded CDFP=bad

[ILSpeed308]

I would agree it would be bad if my fuel pressure was dropping with the mods, but it never did. constantly ran above 15-1600 psi with no problem.

[Speed3D3MonDK]

its worth a try dude

[ILSpeed308]

well it was on my list to do in the summer next year - gut the fuel pump, have the turbo worked and install a PG turbo manifold but now we'll see what happens with the dealer.

throwing around the idea of buying a forged motor if they don't warranty it.

well - Mazda denied my warranty claim...because i had a fucking boost gauge installed.

[8.5MS3]

Originally Posted by ILSpeed308 well it was on my list to do in the summer next year - gut the fuel pump, have the turbo worked and install a PG turbo manifold but now we'll see what happens with the dealer. throwing around the idea of buying a forged motor if they don't warranty it. well - Mazda denied my warranty claim...because i had a fucking boost gauge installed.

fight that shit

dude, a boost gauge?? thats just wrong. i would go to mazda with a water gun filled with piss

[Lex]

Originally Posted by ILSpeed308 well it was on my list to do in the summer next year - gut the fuel pump, have the turbo worked and install a PG turbo manifold but now we'll see what happens with the dealer. throwing around the idea of buying a forged motor if they don't warranty it. well - Mazda denied my warranty claim...because i had a fucking boost gauge installed.

Sorry to hear this but how did they justify a boost gauge causing the engine to blow?

[ILSpeed308]

I haven't gotten any justification yet because the dealer just called back a few hours ago. I called them back and here's the new story :

Service lead was the one who got the call from Mazda - even though he wasn't involved with the warranty process at all. I explained what was going on and asked for what Mazda's reasoning was on how a boost gauge caused my failure. He was like "So all you had was a boost gauge?" I said yeah "Of course" He was like "Well that's not right...I've been working with Mazda for 15 years and there's no way they can justify a boost gauge causing a rod to snap in half".

So...I now have the service lead and shop lead on my side. The service lead has since called Mazda to explain that there's no way a boost gauge could cause a motor to blow. They're fighting for me...so we'll see. More updates to come obviously.

ps - anyone bought a forged motor from PG? That is probably where i'll go if they don't warranty my shit.

[Roszko]

I have the EXACT same problem as IDRVSLO with my 09 MS3 right now. it's been in the shop for the past month and they've replaced the clutch, slave cylinder and they just ordered a short block. I told them from the beginning it was either the cam or crank and they didnt believe me. I don't know if his was fixed or not, but if anyone knows what the problem was with his it'd be a huuuuuuuuuuge help. I could just tell the dealer what to fix rather than them just farting around and replacing random things. Thanks

I'm new so I can't PM IDRVSLO yet, otherwise I would. Still trying to get the hang of this, bear with me.

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by Roszko I have the EXACT same problem as IDRVSLO with my 09 MS3 right now. it's been in the shop for the past month and they've replaced the clutch, slave cylinder and they just ordered a short block. I told them from the beginning it was either the cam or crank and they didnt believe me. I don't know if his was fixed or not, but if anyone knows what the problem was with his it'd be a huuuuuuuuuuge help. I could just tell the dealer what to fix rather than them just farting around and replacing random things. Thanks I'm new so I can't PM IDRVSLO yet, otherwise I would. Still trying to get the hang of this, bear with me.

He replaced the clutch, no change.
Shortly after that his engine blew, it is believed the pulsing through the clutch was evidence of bent rod(s).
Ill try and find the threads and post them here.
The short block should solve your woes.

EDIT to add links:
Start of the clutch pulsing I think its toast.....
Clutch replaced no change Got my car back...same noise
2 days later Rod exits block There she blows!!!!

[Lex]

Yup, bent rods for IDRVSLO

[DaleNixon]

I've had crazy vibration from all the pedals ever since installing the TRZ transmission and rear motor mounts. I'm assuming this pulsing is a little more violent than just vibrating pedals. Is this correct?

[2007speed3]

Hey dale, People said that the pulsating clutch is very noticeable. I too have the upgraded motor mount and thought the same thing.

But everyone who had the problem before they blew said it was nothing like the mm vibration.

[Smoke_31]

I also had the pulsing clutch before my engine blew. Mazda said it was a wear part and would not investigate further unless I wanted to pay for a clutch. Then, my engine exploded into little bits.... Err... I threw a rod through the block (cylinder4).

The pulsing in the clutch pedal is just that. It pulses.

It could be easily misinterpreted as a bad clutch as it occurs right at the friction point. It was a rapid pulsing sensation (Mazda figured it was warped fingers on the pressure plate). It was harsh enough that my foot would pulse with the clutch.

Hope this gives you a better idea of what it feels like.

*EDIT*

The Mazda tech was very surprised when he found my clutch in excellent shape while he was replacing my engine under warranty. They did not replace the clutch and it feels like new in the new setup.

[shpankey]

Very worried about my car of late (09 MS3 GT). The car is not pulling nearly as hard of late and lately, a lot of time when I do an aggressive run through the gears it exhibits lots of black smoke, like it's running really rich. Sometimes it doesn't do this, sometimes only when shifting, and rarely, it will smoke through the whole pull. It's definitely gas, b/c I burn absolutely NO oil since my second oil change.

Used to, I could be rolling in 2nd, about 3500 rpm I could get into it (no dumping the clutch or anything, just push down on the gas pedal) and it would light the tires up, burn them till shifting, then spin them in 3rd a bit, and bark the crap out of them in 4th. Now, it won't even squeak the tires when I do this in 2nd. Just barks in 3rd slightly and nothing in 4th. Not to mention, the butt dyno (I know, not accurate) is just a total meh. When I used to do this, my heart would race and I would be like, HOLY F'n !!!! It would smash me to the back of the seat and pull like a BEAST.

Now, it just doesn't pull very hard, smoke that black pig rich black soot (you can even see the fumes in the air like on a hot sunny day road heat).

Very worried my cars going. I've changed the oil religiously (early at that) and ran Mobil 1 synthetic, and now PP 5w-30 synth. All mods have been on a long time except one... some kind of PCV thingy that was like $20 supposedly fixing smoking turbos (I never had this problem, just bought it for some reason and put it in). I didn't reset the ECU however when I did it.

Mods so far:

SU Billet aluminum shifter bushings

Cobb SRI

Cobb Test Pipe (removes catalytic converter)

Turbosmart Forged BPV

Some kind of PCV fix thingy (cost like 20) to prevent smoking (never had any tho)

Penzoil Platinum 5w-30 oil


Upcoming mods this week (Christmas presents from wifey):

PG High Pressure Fuel Pump upgrade internals (already bought, sitting on my bench)

Cobb Turbo Inlet Hoses (bought, on way now)

CP-e Rear Motor Mount (bought, on way now)

Denzo Iridium 1 step colder plugs (bought, on way now)

Coil pack spring stretch - FREE (since I'm in there already)

Tranny mount, eventually.

[DaleNixon]

Your car is probably fine man. It's probably a combo of the colder weather and your fuel pump not keeping up with your mods. I'm so trying to get a PTP fuel pump ASAP.

[shpankey]

I hope so. The Protege Garage CDFP internals go in tonight, along with the cp-e rear motor mount. Then reset the ECU and baby it for a 100 miles before I find out. I'll report back though.

I will say this though, to further my post, occasionally it will pull hard like the old days. But it is getting fewer and farther in between. It's really odd. I'm guessing a tune would alleviate this maybe?

I was thinking of getting the Cobb AP, do you think this would fix my problems?

Either way, I'm still scared as shit anymore. It's just this constant unsettling feeling, worrying about my engine going bad and debating whether to sink more money into it or bail. I absolutely LOVE the car, especially when it's running right. It is so fun to drive a torque-y beast with a 6 speed and low gearing. lol But at the same time, popping the engine is constantly in the back of my mind and most of the time prevents me from even driving it spirit-idly.

p.s. should I take off the PCV fix mod? Now that I think about it, it's been running poorly on and off ever since I did that mod. I bought it to protect the car, thinking it couldn't harm anything. I doubt it is, but it is a strange coincidence.

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by shpankey p.s. should I take off the PCV fix mod? Now that I think about it, it's been running poorly on and off ever since I did that mod.

I think you just answered your own question.
Take it out and see if it cures it.
If not try something else, you checked all your hoses right?
I wouldnt go adding any other mods till you figure it out.

Do you have a dashhawk, dashdaq, or AP to log and post logs?

[8.5MS3]

just get a compression and leakdown test, relatively cheap and will tell you immediately if the motor is shot. no reason to agonize over what could be causing the issue, if the tests come back ok, and your parameters are within spec, your butt dyno is used to the power and you need to add more mods.

[shpankey]

No dashhawk or AP to log with yet. I plan on getting the AP though, maybe next February. I will take the PTP PCV fix off today and see what happens.

Where does one get the compression and leakdown test done at? Also, how long does it take, what is required and how much does it cost? Thanks.

[Smoke_31]

You can get a leak down and compression test done at the dealership or any mechanics shop that is worth their weight.

[ASIC_BSEE]

Car; 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 with 61000 miles.
Cylinder; Not sure yet, suspect #1
Damage; Suspect broken rod. block pieces and oil in front of block. Rear of block has the start of a hole and a crack down to the oil pan.
RPM; about 4000
Mods; MS Intake, MS exhaust
Exhaust Manifold; Stock
Situation; It blew coming down a hill while engine braking and zero fuel (foot off accelerator).
Warranty; taking the car in on Monday, 12-28-09.
Oil; Mobile 1

[BoostIsBetter]

Originally Posted by ASIC_BSEE Car; 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 with 61000 miles. Cylinder; Not sure yet Damage; Suspect broken rod. block pieces and oil in front of block. RPM; about 4000 Mods; MS Intake, MS exhaust Exhaust Manifold; Stock Situation; It blew coming down a hill while engine braking and zero fuel (foot off accelerator). Warranty; taking the car in on Monday, 12-28-09. Oil; Mobile 1

I can't wait to see your situation, this is a very interesting situation. MS parts from dealership. Just Intake & CBE hmmmm. keep us posted.

did you have an AP