MazdaSpeed 2.3L DISI Turbo Blown Engine Resource Thread

[Silo]

Hydrolocking from fuel (except for leaking injectors)? I call that BS... (or someone did not understand right what was said). Turbo engines have been running A/Fs lower than 10:1 in the past and it wasn't an issue. The unburnt fuel is evaporating and cooling the combustion. The only thing that might happen in this context is that the oil film on the cylinder walls is washed out.

[PoMan]

Originally Posted by YammerR1 So will Mazda revise their tune to lean things out a bit in the affected areas and issue a recall to reflash our ECU? Did you hear this from a Mazda engineer or a mechanic working at the dealership?

Didn't say anything about it..... :/

Originally Posted by Lex Interesting info but it's hard to believe the engine hydrolocks on fuel. Is this an issue with the calibration, injectors etc etc? Need a little more info regarding this.

I agree....I said they were nucking futs to expect me to believe the engine Hydrolocked. Not sure if its Cal, injectors or what. But happens at that magic 3000rpm, 1/2 throttle situation.

Originally Posted by Silo Hydrolocking from fuel (except for leaking injectors)? I call that BS... (or someone did not understand right what was said). Turbo engines have been running A/Fs lower than 10:1 in the past and it wasn't an issue. The unburnt fuel is evaporating and cooling the combustion. The only thing that might happen in this context is that the oil film on the cylinder walls is washed out.

Spcifically said hydrolocking with fuel. Could be leaky Injectors (Maybe Upgraded FP causes this to happen more?)


Cant really get more info...Mainly just sharing the explanation that was given to me. I only believe a little of it. Maybe the issue isnt the Rods, but more towards faulty injectors that fail and flood the chamber? Maybe thats what causes the rod to bend, then fail after being operated bent? Personally (and I am no expert at all) I think the issue is more what causes that rod to bend a few days before the engine blows. I think all would agree that if you put a bent rod in an otherwise perfect engine/system, eventually that rod will break. We also all know that hitthing high boost at Low RPM (which our ECU does at 1/2 throttle a little under 3000rpm) is very stressful, and would be a logical point for a fatigued part to fail.

I don't think anyone has actually identified an event that caused the bent #1 rod, but the majority of the blown engines have them. I think it is understood that the rod gets that slight bend, then is driven till it fails by the piston, breaks, and makes a spectacular exit from the engine.

There are still questions on the Hydrolocking theory like why is it always #4? I would think if it was a failing/faulty injector, we would see an even distribution over all cylinders? If there is some truth to the theory, and a cylinder had a partial hydrolock event, and then was driven for ...say... 3 days, what evidence would there be of the event other than a slightly bent rod?

[Smoke_31]

I don't buy that theory at all. And haven't most of the failures been cylinder 4? I know it was cylinder 4 in my car.

I think that whoever told you that was either making up stories to appease you or perhaps was grasping at straws.

[kyoo]

Originally Posted by PoMan Not sure if this is important or not...but according to Mazda (dont ask how I know) this issues is directly linked to Hydrolocking due to Too much fuel. How many people had upgraded Fuel Punp/Internals? I would still think is a hole in the ECU) but supposedly the cause is that the system gets more fuel than it expects (during a certain situation) and it hydrolocks because there is too much fuel in the cylinder. ALSO, there is a section in the ECU that monitors and records when and If the ECU is changed. so SUPPOSEDLY they know when you change it...even if you set it back. Dont flame me...just sharing what I heard from mazda (while they were working on 2 engines that were blown)

According to PTP doesn't the motor get hydrolocked on motor oil?

[808mazdaspeed3]

have any engines blew after doing the "BS Delete"?

[Meder]

Originally Posted by 808mazdaspeed3 have any engines blew after doing the "BS Delete"?

Yes

[808mazdaspeed3]

thanks

[808mazdaspeed3]

I also experienced clutch vibration before my engine blew. sorry I didn't mention this earlier.

[cudaman]

I'm not sure I buy the fuel hydrolock theory just yet. If this new theory purportedly from Mazda is fuel-hydrolock, they could avoid the mess by recommending more frequent oil changes and/or there would be some serious unspent fuel issues that would make MS3's fail smog tests miserably.... But, the excess fuel issue would explain the awful mess that appears in the catch can, from some of those "settled out" catch-can links showing a 3 layer mix of oil sludge, moisture, and then fuel at the top (using colors only, not true catch-can fluid analysis).

MS3's do burn rich, but fuel hydrolock seems far fetched unless it happens over time and too much dilution of oil which would show up in a used oil analysis one would think.... The reduction of oil sheer due to fuel would be a big signal warning in the UOA....so, I don't think I buy that theory....

But, if anyone who joined the onerous zoom-zoom-boom club does have a history of used oil analyses handy, that would either add or detract from that theory. If oil sheer loss does seem to creep in over time, or those club members went beyond recommended oil changes (which I doubt), then the fuel hydrolock would make maybe more sense. And, if those same folks had a lot of PTB (part throttle overboost), it may all combined to show the total story. Good thread info though...... Like the mystery of the building of the Egyptian Pyramids, nobody knows how it all happened, but it sure is there.

[ASIC_BSEE]

I'm getting my car back today! I'll keep you all posted.

Originally Posted by stitchyad ....... Did they change the oil when they were supposed to? Were they monitoring oil pressure? Was the engine receiving enough fuel? Every body is talking about what happened, but no one have given those details yet.......

I changed my oil every 3k miles with full synthetic. Go back a few pages, I gave details about maintenance. I always monitored OBD-II KR and EGT, but the only thing I watched on gauges was external Boost gauge, oil pressure light (Never saw it come on ever) and engine coolant temp. Any other type of physical add-on gauge risks voiding your warranty. Maybe not an oil pressure gauge.

Originally Posted by 808mazdaspeed3 to further elaborate on what i mentioned... for the past two days I've been noticing bellowing white smoke coming from my tail pipe. This happens mostly at idle. I'm due for a PCV valve change and definitely a oil catch can. I also looked into the PTP stop smoke fix and I'm still smoking.......cruising on a flat road, no cruise control and no stumble from the engine when it happened. huge amount of white smoke when it did happen.

Your turbo seals are leaking. The prior owner probably was running higher boost and hot EGTs which equals higher RPMS on the turbo more coaking and more wear. Also, I was told by the a Mazda tech that the oiling system in this turbo is not optimal and recommended an after oiler system.

Originally Posted by PoMan Not sure if this is important or not...but according to Mazda (dont ask how I know) this issues is directly linked to Hydrolocking due to Too much fuel.

My failure was while coasting, so If mine was due to a bad injector, the dealership will see me again soon since they were forced by the warranty company to re-used the top half of my engine.

Originally Posted by Smoke_31 I don't buy that theory at all. And haven't most of the failures been cylinder 4? I know it was cylinder 4 in my car. I think that whoever told you that was either making up stories to appease you or perhaps was grasping at straws.

Just to clarify, the dealership said cylinder #4 is the one on the driver's side, not the passenger side like stated on post #1 here.

Originally Posted by PoMan There are still questions on the Hydrolocking theory like why is it always #4? I would think if it was a failing/faulty injector, we would see an even distribution over all cylinders? If there is some truth to the theory, and a cylinder had a partial hydrolock event, and then was driven for ...say... 3 days, what evidence would there be of the event other than a slightly bent rod?

Doesn't cylinder #4 get the most heat due to the stock exhaust manifold design?

[ASIC_BSEE]

Go the car back. I gotta say my dealership really did a good job. I looked the engine over and everything looks good, no damage that I can see. No visible leaks so far. Engine sounds smooth at idle and runs smooth on the road. The body looks free of any door dings, scratches or dents, but I won't know for sure until I wash it.

They were very nice and the bill came to $517 including the deductible. I can't complain at all considering how persistent I was with them and how much hassle it was for them. They went the extra mile for me to see this through to the end. If they or Mazda sees this post, I want them to know I appreciate the excellent service. Thank you!

[Lex]

Originally Posted by ASIC_BSEE Go the car back. I gotta say my dealership really did a good job. I looked the engine over and everything looks good, no damage that I can see. No visible leaks so far. Engine sounds smooth at idle and runs smooth on the road. The body looks free of any door dings, scratches or dents, but I won't know for sure until I wash it. They were very nice and the bill came to $517 including the deductible. I can't complain at all considering how persistent I was with them and how much hassle it was for them. They went the extra mile for me to see this through to the end. If they or Mazda sees this post, I want them to know I appreciate the excellent service. Thank you!

Glad to see you're back on the road! Did they give you the blown block?

[808mazdaspeed3]

Originally Posted by ASIC_BSEE Your turbo seals are leaking. The prior owner probably was running higher boost and hot EGTs which equals higher RPMS on the turbo more coaking and more wear. Also, I was told by the a Mazda tech that the oiling system in this turbo is not optimal and recommended an after oiler system.

Thanks,

That's what we originally felt was the problem but wanted to see how things play out and if we could find a viable solution for the problem other than... a) getting a new turbo b) downing the car and sending it to someone to rebuild the turbo which will eventually go again due to the way this turbo is built.

I think I'm going to look at getting an upgraded turbo. My friend knows a tuner that will be able to fly out here and dyno/road tune my car correctly.

Only time will tell

[ASIC_BSEE]

Originally Posted by Lex Glad to see you're back on the road! Did they give you the blown block?

I decided to leave the block with them, but I did take the other 3 pistons and rods. I could probably still get the block if I call them today. Did you really want me to save it?

[DboySpeedz]

Just Ordered My pistons and rings. Cant wait to start the build

[Lex]

Originally Posted by ASIC_BSEE I decided to leave the block with them, but I did take the other 3 pistons and rods. I could probably still get the block if I call them today. Did you really want me to save it?

Saw this too late It would have been interesting to take a look at. I guess it's too late now.

[integrrac]

I've been waiting 2 weeks to find out if i can post in this thread or not and today i found out.

I'm officially getting a new engine under warranty!

Then I'm selling this POS and getting something that isn't going to die after 40k miles while bone stock. Anyone have a guess for how much i could get for a Black 2007 MS3 with 40k on the chassis and 0 on the engine? The car is in great condition besides this mechanical BS which is on the way to being fixed up 100%. This is my daily driver and I need something more reliable, i was hoping for a nice balance of fun and reliable with this car. Maybe the previous owner beat on the engine, maybe it was just a dud, either way I'm done before my warranty runs out (35k left). Oh, i also have a Cp-e catted DP which i never even got to install if anyone wants to make an offer on that!

I think i might buy an RSX for my daily driver and maybe down the road pick up a 240sx project with a sr20det.


p.s.

Car; 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 with 40k miles.
Cylinder; #3
Damage; nothing evident, low compression and CELs
RPM; missing at idle other than that ran fine
Mods; none
Exhaust Manifold; Stock
Situation; CELs, dealer replaced Fuel pump, injector, and o2 sensor before compression testing
Warranty; new engine for free!
Oil; synthetic

[skipunk11]

just blew my engine last week!!! I have a hole in the front and the rear of the block. Going today to look at it and probably take pictures if they still have it on the lift.

I was driving under normal casual conditions...shifting from 1st to 2nd and had the RPMs under 3000. No oil light. no warning of any kind.

MODs Injen CAI, Corksport Turbo Inlet, Corksport TurboBack, PTP fuel pump internals, PTP PCV fix, Cobb AP.

Warranty denied due to lack of proof of maintenance (Oil changes etc) and MOD's

[808mazdaspeed3]

damn that sucks... i feel your pain completely.

were you running an OTS (off the shelf) map as well or were you custom tuned?

[skipunk11]

generic Cobb maps

if Iremember right you know Audra? She has a boosted sedan. Well we've taken her in as a sister but shes in Iraq right now and should be home around Sept

[802MS3]

any used oil analysis?

[808mazdaspeed3]

Originally Posted by skipunk11 generic Cobb maps if Iremember right you know Audra? She has a boosted sedan. Well we've taken her in as a sister but shes in Iraq right now and should be home around Sept

yeah those generic (OTS - off the shelf) maps can be really bad due to the fact that the AFRs on each engine can and will be different. I ran the AP with one of those maps too and my engine was running really lean due to my altitude and climate.

Are you asking me if I know Audra?

[super_pablo_]

just curious....
has any 09 speed3 been documented to blow?
I havent seen any around...

[Spoolme]

add me to the list... sucks!

[skipunk11]

Originally Posted by opt_ms3 any used oil analysis?

Negative. The dealer (a mazdaspeed dealer at that) put the car on a lift, removed lower fairing, saw the MODs, and denied warranty due to 1) Lack of proof of maintenance(i.e. oil changes and 2) MODs

Originally Posted by 808mazdaspeed3 Are you asking me if I know Audra?

My fuel trims were good. low RPMs raised them but I never drove under 3000RPMs.

Yes, do you know Audra ?? LOL.

[akbrazil]

Originally Posted by skipunk11 just blew my engine last week!!! I have a hole in the front and the rear of the block. Going today to look at it and probably take pictures if they still have it on the lift. I was driving under normal casual conditions...shifting from 1st to 2nd and had the RPMs under 3000. No oil light. no warning of any kind. MODs Injen CAI, Corksport Turbo Inlet, Corksport TurboBack, PTP fuel pump internals, PTP PCV fix, Cobb AP. Warranty denied due to lack of proof of maintenance (Oil changes etc) and MOD's

What year is your mazda?

[Spoolme]

2008.5 GT Mods: Modified Injen Cai, Denso ITV22 1 step colder, TurboXS DP / RP with magnaflow hi-flow cat, HKS catback, Cobb TI, TurboXS FMIC, PT-P Pill, Perrin OCC, MazdaEdit @17psi.

[skipunk11]

2008.5

just spoke with the NorthWest Regional MazdaNorth America rep...and it was like talking to a brick wall.said she couldnt and did not want to over turn her tech guys, the dealer, etc. and after hitting the brick wall a few times I asked what options do I have to get my car on the road and she responds with "thats on you". I said well if I get an engine can you help out with the install..responce "no". so I asked. if I had installed just an intake would I have the same outcome-responce"If you had installed a Mazdaspeed brand then no" This is highly illegal vs. the Magnusson Moss Act. If I had the time and the money I'd fight this. However I need my car now being my daily driver and having kids. I will never buy nor encourage others to buy new Mazdas from Mazda. Only to buy from private sellers or used lots. I will never after buying 2 Mazdas and having plans to buy in future ever buy another Mazda where Mazda US gets any income. They have shown no interest in helping a customer in any way. They had no concern in why the engine failed(never investigated the problem, therefore not wanting to know if its a reoccuring problem in their cars). AT LEAST Toyota is doing something about their problems!!!

[kwsmithphoto]

Reply of the month, FF, well done!

BTW, WTF is "Audra?"

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by skipunk11 Negative. The dealer (a mazdaspeed dealer at that) put the car on a lift, removed lower fairing, saw the MODs, and denied warranty due to 1) Lack of proof of maintenance(i.e. oil changes and 2) MODs My fuel trims were good. low RPMs raised them but I never drove under 3000RPMs. Yes, do you know Audra ?? LOL.

Originally Posted by skipunk11 2008.5 just spoke with the NorthWest Regional MazdaNorth America rep...and it was like talking to a brick wall.said she couldnt and did not want to over turn her tech guys, the dealer, etc. and after hitting the brick wall a few times I asked what options do I have to get my car on the road and she responds with "thats on you". I said well if I get an engine can you help out with the install..responce "no". so I asked. if I had installed just an intake would I have the same outcome-responce"If you had installed a Mazdaspeed brand then no" This is highly illegal vs. the Magnusson Moss Act. If I had the time and the money I'd fight this. However I need my car now being my daily driver and having kids. I will never buy nor encourage others to buy new Mazdas from Mazda. Only to buy from private sellers or used lots. I will never after buying 2 Mazdas and having plans to buy in future ever buy another Mazda where Mazda US gets any income. They have shown no interest in helping a customer in any way. They had no concern in why the engine failed(never investigated the problem, therefore not wanting to know if its a reoccuring problem in their cars). AT LEAST Toyota is doing something about their problems!!!

And this surprises you why???

[skipunk11]

I'vew spoken with people that work at other dealers of other manufactorers and they said they would at least help in some way(at owners cost) to get their car on the road. Mazda did no such thing. I asked where I could get a new engine. Responded with we wont get you one. THis attitude suprises me. I may have modified a car but I am still a Mazda owner. Why one company wouldnt want to help such a consumer suprises me.


Audra is here, well deployed from here in Wa state. Shes been to a couple of our meets before she shipped. Should be back here in Sept and in her car hitting our meets up. Nice Boosted Sedan. FIrst one I've ever seen in person and maybe first sedan I've heard of. very VERY nice and clean car too.

p.s. ALso suprises me that she sounded like she had no clue what the "Magnuson Moss Act" even was. This federal law is a big thing on the Modification scene and should be well know through the community as well as manufactorers.

[802MS3]

you said it yourself...you don't have the time or resources to fight it. if you do, then you should buy a beater car and find a lawyer.

And having Mazda source you a new motor and asking them to do the install is probably a bad idea. You'll probably get slammed with a $8-10,000 bill. Your best bet at this point is find a used motor on ebay/craigslist/junkyard and having a local shop install it for you. Since you are in Washington, you should contact PT-P, they might be able to help you out.

[Spoolme]

+1 " Since you are in Washington, you should contact PT-P, they might be able to help you out." Call John, he is building a short block for me.

[kwsmithphoto]

Originally Posted by skipunk11 I'vew spoken with people that work at other dealers of other manufactorers and they said they would at least help in some way(at owners cost) to get their car on the road. Mazda did no such thing. I asked where I could get a new engine. Responded with we wont get you one. THis attitude suprises me. I may have modified a car but I am still a Mazda owner. Why one company wouldnt want to help such a consumer suprises me. Audra is here, well deployed from here in Wa state. Shes been to a couple of our meets before she shipped. Should be back here in Sept and in her car hitting our meets up. Nice Boosted Sedan. FIrst one I've ever seen in person and maybe first sedan I've heard of. very VERY nice and clean car too. p.s. ALso suprises me that she sounded like she had no clue what the "Magnuson Moss Act" even was. This federal law is a big thing on the Modification scene and should be well know through the community as well as manufactorers.

I can't imagine that a dealer would refuse to sell and install a new motor at your expense, that does sound strange.

But the other guys are right - for what a dealer would charge for a stock engine, a good engine builder can use your mods, beef up the internals, etc. by rebuilding a used motor. Your powertrain warranty is gone anyway, so you might as well go that route.

Navy girl? My mom lives on Bainbridge Island, and there's a casino just across the bridge where a lot of Navy types from Keyport(?) and Brmerton hang out on weekends. One time at the bar an under-age Navy guy was buying a Coke. I said "hey dude, if you're old enough to serve our country, you're old enough for a REAL drink, you want one?" He was like "Hell ya!" So I bought a double Jack Daniels to slip into his soda pop. It was pretty slick, he just casually held his Coke below the bar so the cameras couldn't see it while we chatted for a couple minutes, then I took the JD and dumped it in while the bartender was distracted!

Anyway, sorry about your car. Sounds like you're in a better frame of mind. What are the 4 stages of loss again? Denial, grief, anger, and acceptance? Sounds like you're moving through them pretty well. And you learned a valuable lesson. Bummer that the Northwest Mazda rep was such a tool, but especially since their split from Ford, they're under a lot of pressure to really clamp down on costs across the board.

[ASIC_BSEE]

I can get you an engine at a little over wholesale + you woul dhave to pick it up at Ron Tonkin Mazda in OR. Let me know. Sorry about your car

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by ASIC_BSEE I can get you an engine at a little over wholesale

Out of curiosity...... how much would that be.

[Lvis]

anybody have a fmic with 93 octane regularly used? if its an overheating issue thats causing it then im sure the fmic and 93 ocatane will help

[Mikey95hd]

38,6@@ called MAZDAUSA, replacing TURBO TODAY, SMOKE OUT THE EXHAUST, PCV BLOWING OUT THE OIL FILL CAP (SHOULD BE VACUUM), WORN OUT TIRES (THREE SETS) BRAKES ARE SHOT, BOTH FRONT AND REAR, REPLACED FRONT WITH STOCK PADS OUCH, DID THEM MYSELF OF COURSE, CLUNK NOISE LIKE A BAD BALL JOINT IN A 1970 TRUCK FROM THE FRONT, GEAR SHIFTS FUNNY IN 2ND, 3RD, AND 6TH. FULLY LOADED 2007 GT, MAY 2007. I SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT A LEMON. THE DEALERSHIP TOLD ME MY WARRANTY IS UP 3 YEARS, 36,000 MILE LIMIT. I TOLD MAZDAUSA, THEY CAN HAVE THE CAR BACK PERIOD, SMOKE OUT THE BACK AND NOW THERE BLOWING SMOKE UP MY @$$. SO FIX IT OR KEEP IT. I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS CAR. DON'T WANT YOUR GEN 2, AND JUST GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK, BONE STOCK NEVER DID ANYTHING BUT DRIVE IT, ZOOM-ZOOM, BOOM-BOOM.

THEN AGAIN I COULD HAVE GOT THE FIRST ROTARY ENGINE THAT GOT 10 MPG, AFTER THEY FIXED THE PROBLEMS, BACK WHEN THE WANGLE CAME OUT, COULDN'T PASS SMOG AND THIS POS WON'T EITHER IN 2012.

BOTTOM LINE...

JUNK.

[skipunk11]

UPDATE: Got myself a stock 2010 MS3 engine long block at dealer cost !!! Well..just over..it was DAYUM CHEAP though!! Zero miles zero problems. I am installing it myself. Sat/sun last weekend were the first days. I am doing it on FT Lewis at their auto shop and hopefully it will be 90% complete Wed night when they open back up. I am taking pics along the way but it will still be difficult for me to do a "how-to" thread as there are different ways you can do this. I have a buddy that came up from Ron Tonkin that helped for one day (best day of the 2). All in all this has been an experience. If I deploy again (National Guard) I will be getting all forged internals....COMPLETE. And then we can all talk !! Thanks for the support guys !! Pics to come

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Second brand new motor has already blown. I give up.