MazdaSpeed 2.3L DISI Turbo Blown Engine Resource Thread

[Smoke_31]

Originally Posted by Mazdaspeedgirl Second brand new motor has already blown. I give up.

Mods? Tune? Mileage? Hard driving habits? Tromping on it below 3000RPM?

[Stealth01]

Originally Posted by Mazdaspeedgirl Second brand new motor has already blown. I give up.

WTF? Still bone stock, I assume? Did they use any parts from the old motor?

[phillyb]

Originally Posted by Mazdaspeedgirl Second brand new motor has already blown. I give up.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA.
dumb bitch.
something tells me there is some operator failure here.

[rodrigo]

like i told u the first time u blew up........ user error can never be overlooked. and now second time......the odds.....


get a corolla..... i hear those are great race cars

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Mazdaspeedgirl Second brand new motor has already blown. I give up.

How did this one happen?

[phillyb]

probably flooring it at 30mph going up a hill in 4th.
fuck it...what were those things msfers told me not to do????

[phillyb]

does she speaketh?

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by Smoke_31 Mods? Tune? Mileage? Hard driving habits? Tromping on it below 3000RPM?

None. No. 3k on the new motor. I drive it hard occasionally. I do NOT get into boost below 3k per research here and on other boards

Originally Posted by Stealth01 WTF? Still bone stock, I assume? Did they use any parts from the old motor?

No, the motor was completely new from Mazda and the turbo.

Originally Posted by phillyb HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA. dumb bitch. something tells me there is some operator failure here.

Originally Posted by lenny127 like i told u the first time u blew up........ user error can never be overlooked. and now second time......the odds..... get a corolla..... i hear those are great race cars

yeah yeah, fuck you two as well. You can give as much shit as you like, but to me you're just as dumbfuck blind as the RX-8 guys who thought their cars were immune to any motor failures. Now they're all dropping like flies.

Read above. I have taken care to drive the care carefully almost always and when i am getting on it i never got close to redline, kept it below 6k, always let the boost build gradually ABOVE 3k, and always downshifted to accelerate. It wasn't even time for the first oil change. The motor barely runs and is making a loud clanking noise.

Originally Posted by phillyb probably flooring it at 30mph going up a hill in 4th. fuck it...what were those things msfers told me not to do????

Regardless of the fact that I never did such a thing (as a person who's driven standard cars for 16+ years who knows it's not good to lug an engine, to always downshift to accelerate), do you all think it is acceptable for a production car to throw rods if boost builds at a low rpm? I have never heard of ANY other car that has the same problem. that doesn't even sound like an acceptable issue: "hey man don't give it too much gas or it'll blow". Sound like an engineering flaw to me.

[Lex]

^ Sounds like a lemon to me. Is the noise rod knock? Other things can bang around. Are you taking it in again?

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Some quotes from my friend who is much wiser than some people debating the topic:

Ricky Crow If you can't load it at 2k rpm, there is something seriously wrong with it. I can go WOT on my CRX (with turbo -- something that engine was never designed for) from 1200rpm all the way up and never worry about anything.

Ricky Crow Give me a good reason why it should be acceptable that a mass-produced engine designed by a manufacturer to have a turbo on it in the first place should be unable to withstand the type of driving that somebody like my dad would do (he always shifts cars at lower RPMs)...?? Why do you think V8s sell so well in America? Because people like ... See MoreLOW END TORQUE... That's exactly what a moderate-displacement turbo engine like the Speed3 will provide. You don't have to rev that engine to the moon to get more than enough torque out of it for everyday driving. If you ever looked at the connecting rods of a D-series Honda engine, you'd be amazed that they can put up with boost at all...let alone high throttle positions/loads at low RPMs under boost.

Ricky Crow I don't even care what a 'load table' is.... I *know* the physics behind what forces exist in an engine at various points of the compression and power strokes, especially under boost. I am simply telling you that *no* manufacturer should even let a powerplant out of the test facility if it cannot withstand high loads at low RPMs. They absolutely... See More, positively, must take into account ALL sorts of driving conditions and environments because everybody has different driving styles... That's the bottom line. Not everybody can, nor does everybody WANT to rev the snot out of their car all the time.

Originally Posted by Lex ^ Sounds like a lemon to me. Is the noise rod knock? Other things can bang around. Are you taking it in again?

I think it's more likely a rod knocking than anything else. the noise before was a "smaller" noise and that was the valve heads bouncing around in the cylinder.

Someone else brought up the point that it could be bad injectors or a bad tune, but as far as I know the car is stock and running rich to the point of black smoke coming out of the exhaust, so the car leaning out isn't as plausible.

[phillyb]

how long was it running for before the 2nd engine went?

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by phillyb how long was it running for before the 2nd engine went?

About 3k miles. it was installed in late march, so it's been under 2 mos.

[phillyb]

maybe the problem is that you're getting information from someone who's used to using a 20 year old engine, old technology, and a simpler ecu and trying to compare that to the mazdas.
it's a fact, that if you load this car up down low, it's not good.
too much load.
it's a fact, regardless of what ricky crow and his 20 year old crx is accustomed to doing.

[Lex]

The "dont load the car up early" applies to vehicles that are modified and outside the parameters of the stock vehicle and exhibit boost spikes and such fun behavior.

This new motor is either a lemon, wasn't installed correctly, there is an underlying issue carried from the old motor, or you did something to break it. Simple as that - take it back in to the dealer.

That being said, I have seen many DISI engines blow and I haven't seen any that lost valves like your first motor did which looked like a timing chain/mechanism issue or severe over-rev.

[SRTie4k]

I tend to agree with her. I'm be more than willing to bet Mazda would not release a car that can't take flooring the throttle below 3k RPM bone stock without blowing up after 3k miles.

I'm more apt to believe that the mechanics screwed something up when they installed the 2nd engine.

[phillyb]

Originally Posted by SRTie4k I tend to agree with her. I'm be more than willing to bet Mazda would not release a car that can't take flooring the throttle below 3k RPM bone stock without blowing up after 3k miles. I'm more apt to believe that the mechanics screwed something up when they installed the 2nd engine.

how would it run for 3000 miles and two months if it were installed incorrectly?
and do you really believe your first statement?
this has been ongoing for a long time now.
many people believe that due to the small turbo and its quick spooling capability, the torque loads the engine too much too quickly.

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

The word is in: #2 cylinder had a valve head that sheared off again. This is not the same issue as a bent rod. I have been adamant about using Chevron 93 or Exxon, whichever is closest, but always 93. I don't think pre-detonation due to carbon buildup would be the exact cause in that respect. Mazda is having their tech come out to inspect the motor again. We'll see how it goes...

I will talk to the tech who installed the motor last time and see if they did anything with the timing mechanisms. I would think if these motors had timing chains that they would come with new ones from the factory. That or if they had timing belts that they would install a new belt/tensioner.

[rodrigo]

i see alot of yapping about connoisseurs yet we still blow 2 times in a row.

i really think this car is obviously too unreliable for your type of fail driving. get something ricky crow would recommend.

in the meantime ill keep beating the shit out of my 70k miles, 22psi pumpinf fully bolted k04 ms3 ........

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by lenny127 i see alot of yapping about connoisseurs yet we still blow 2 times in a row. i really think this car is obviously too unreliable for your type of fail driving. get something ricky crow would recommend. in the meantime ill keep beating the shit out of my 70k miles, 22psi pumpinf fully bolted k04 ms3 ........

You're so sure it's just me, huh? How about we trade cars when I get a brand new motor and you beat on this car and see if it doesn't have an internal failure again.

[SRTie4k]

Originally Posted by phillyb how would it run for 3000 miles and two months if it were installed incorrectly? and do you really believe your first statement? this has been ongoing for a long time now. many people believe that due to the small turbo and its quick spooling capability, the torque loads the engine too much too quickly.

Improper timing, bolts not torqued to capacity letting go...? There are a ton of different scenarios that could cause to a catastrophic failure after a couple thousand miles.

And what does the size of the turbo have to do with anything? SRT-4's have tiny turbos, make loads of torque at a low RPM and don't have any problem. VW GTI's have the exact same turbo as us...why don't more of them blow up completely stock?

We're talking about a 100% stock car here, not a car with full bolt-ons and a half ass tune. I'd put money down that a good 85% of MS3 engine failures were due to crap tunes that caused detonation, but I don't believe for a second that a 100% stock car is just as likely to blow as all the fully bolted cars we've had blow up.

[Lex]

Hmmm valves shearing off again ... meaning piston/valve impact again ... meaning timing fail again.

[DaleNixon]

I've always got that one moment of 6 degree knock I got at WOT at about 18PSI around 5000 RPMs in the back of my mind. Oh well... car's running strong for now.

[rodrigo]

Originally Posted by Mazdaspeedgirl You're so sure it's just me, huh? How about we trade cars when I get a brand new motor and you beat on this car and see if it doesn't have an internal failure again.

i am 100% down. ive been trying to off load my car for 2 years

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

Originally Posted by DaleNixon I've always got that one moment of 6 degree knock I got at WOT at about 18PSI around 5000 RPMs in the back of my mind. Oh well... car's running strong for now.

Thanks. That's good info for me to make some deductions.

Originally Posted by lenny127 i am 100% down. ive been trying to off load my car for 2 years

lmao Why??

[Smoke_31]

Originally Posted by Mazdaspeedgirl lmao Why??

Probably the same reason I am trying to get rid of my car.

Once you have modified it, it is no longer fun stock.

Modified, it likes to blow up. There are several people who have not blown up, but many that have.

When your engine blows up on you once, it is like sheer terror driving it again. I hate driving my car. It's fun and quick on the current setup (Intake, TBE, Forge V2 BPV, Cobb AP) and makes me grin, but the constant thought lingers... When is it going to blow up again?

[knarfies]

thats why i stick to the cai.

no need to mod it. its quick enough.

[skeeter149]

speedgirl no disrespect, just curious what was the break in procedure you used?

[kwsmithphoto]

Originally Posted by knarfalvarez thats why i stick to the cai. no need to mod it. its quick enough.

I'm inclined to agree.

I really, really like my 60K powertrain warranty, and intend to keep it intact. Yes it would be fun to have a faster car, but I bought it new for 25K out the door, and the front end was struggling for power grip on the test drive.

If I want a faster car I'll buy one...if or when I can afford to.

But if my very well maintained stock motor blows, I'm covered. I need that. This is not a race car!

And FWIW, I take no "special care" to avoid the RPM and throttle input zones where most engines let go. Why should I, it's an un-modified production engine that's never been abused, just driven like any other car I've ever had. And as you can see by the Fuelly graphic in my sig, I don't drive it like an old lady, because I get god awful gas mileage just keeping up with traffic, and occasional forays into non-competitive track days just for fun.

So if the motor let's go and there's a warranty "issue," Mazda will lose if it comes down to a fight. I know how to deal with shit like that. BTW, did I mention that my motor is stock?

BTW, I still love this car!

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by kwsmithphoto I'm inclined to agree. I really, really like my 60K powertrain warranty, and intend to keep it intact. Yes it would be fun to have a faster car, but I bought it new for 25K out the door, and the front end was struggling for power grip on the test drive. If I want a faster car I'll buy one...if or when I can afford to. But if my very well maintained stock motor blows, I'm covered. I need that. This is not a race car! And FWIW, I take no "special care" to avoid the RPM and throttle input zones where most engines let go. Why should I, it's an un-modified production engine that's never been abused, just driven like any other car I've ever had. And as you can see by the Fuelly graphic in my sig, I don't drive it like an old lady, because I get god awful gas mileage just keeping up with traffic, and occasional forays into non-competitive track days just for fun. So if the motor let's go and there's a warranty "issue," Mazda will lose if it comes down to a fight. I know how to deal with shit like that. BTW, did I mention that my motor is stock? BTW, I still love this car!

But the extra ~120 ft-lbs of torque is sweet...

[knarfies]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go But the extra ~120 ft-lbs of torque is sweet...

untill it blows. as a dd its better to just have fun with it as it was intended.

[Stealth01]

Well, good luck with it MSGirl. Whatever the cause, if it happens a third time, get rid of it or take it to a different dealer for repairs/install.

[phillyb]

i hope it does happen a third time

[Smoke_31]

I

Originally Posted by kwsmithphoto I'm inclined to agree. I really, really like my 60K powertrain warranty, and intend to keep it intact. Yes it would be fun to have a faster car, but I bought it new for 25K out the door, and the front end was struggling for power grip on the test drive. If I want a faster car I'll buy one...if or when I can afford to. But if my very well maintained stock motor blows, I'm covered. I need that. This is not a race car! And FWIW, I take no "special care" to avoid the RPM and throttle input zones where most engines let go. Why should I, it's an un-modified production engine that's never been abused, just driven like any other car I've ever had. And as you can see by the Fuelly graphic in my sig, I don't drive it like an old lady, because I get god awful gas mileage just keeping up with traffic, and occasional forays into non-competitive track days just for fun. So if the motor let's go and there's a warranty "issue," Mazda will lose if it comes down to a fight. I know how to deal with shit like that. BTW, did I mention that my motor is stock? BTW, I still love this car!

Different strokes for different folks.

We all drive our cars differently and we all have different ideas about what this car should be.

Cheers

[qiknotch92]

the only way that you can drop a valve with out drinking some water is missing a shift or not knowing how to down shift you can sit at a stop and floor it and the rev limiter wont let you over rev it it will just sit there bouncing off the rev limiter if your driving and go from 5 to to first then the transmission will over rev the motor and then its boom these motor have timing chains and the motor come complete you dont use old parts from motors they come complete its called a long block short blocks dont come with that

[t0p_mounted]

after reading this i kind of want to return my car back to stock and go sit in a quiet place for a while

[knarfies]

Originally Posted by t0p_mounted after reading this i kind of want to return my car back to stock and go sit in a quiet place for a while

no need to worry man, yes people blow but that doesnt mean you are. Theres a thread out there and ill try to find it after i take my smoke break (haha) but most of the people that blew were tunning etc. my personal opinion or theory is that people were tunning and didnt know how to properly do so. They were modifying which is great but either were using ots maps or not tunning the car to what it exactly needed. If your worried about blowing though theres always the option to do a few quick bolt ons and demod if warantee work is needed.

When you think about it our cars are pretty damn fast as is and modding is an adiction. Trust me lol. I may only have a cai but the amount of time i spend looking at diff things to buy lol, oye!

[kwsmithphoto]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Mazda pretty wrung out the ole 2.3L as best they could, but neither Ford nor Volvo adopted it (this was back when they were still friends). It wasn't designed from a clean sheet of paper to produce the power it does.

IMHO, considering what they had to work with, and go it alone with development to meet a price point, they did a pretty good job with an old engine as a starting point. Remember, at roughly the same time, they got Ford to sign off on the rotary Genesis motor...which was also not adopted by any other F/M/V vehicle, but Detroit signed off on it anyway.

Basically, when they were all friends, Ford pretty much gave Mazda just enough rope (and money) to hang themselves. Now Mazda is on their own, with 2 motors that are only in Mazdas.

Why? I don't know. But we all know Ford used the T5 Volvo motor for their latest Focus RS, which is based on a newer/better platform than any Mazda3, but is unique to Ford. It remains to be seen if their technology sharing contracts extend beyond the divorce, but there has to be a reason why the Turbo DISI motor is exclusive to Mazda, when Ford or Volvo could have just dropped it into any number of vehicles, back when they were still friends.

BTW, Volvo has nice new inline 6 and a pretty good small V8. That also aren't found in a Ford or Mazda vehicle.

Point being, this motor is a loner, exclusive to Mazda. It isn't a bad motor, I just think they got the most out of it that they could on their own. And I think they did a pretty good job as a small manufacturer going it alone. They worked wonders on the 3.0LV6 Taurus motor, but the turbo 4's needs a little more care and feeding, and clearly don't like to be modded a lot for big power.

But how much power do you really want in a front wheel drive car anyway??

Bone stock, it already has problems with torque steer on uneven surfaces on it's current platform, so IMO it's just not a car to make too much out of. Race teams have tried and found it lacking, even with custom ECU's. It has aero problems, suspension problems, etc.

The suspension can be tamed though, and you can get about 10% more power out of it cheaply with factory parts that won't void your powertain warranty.

I understand the fuss, and feel deeply for those whose motors have blown, but I also feel this car is not a good project go-fast car; it's just a reasonably priced, nicely equipped, affordable car that just needs a few inexpensive tweaks to be a fun, reliable, solid, and trusty ROAD car.

I like mine a lot, even it's current state of tune (stock motor). If I were dumb enough to take a car with a 60K powertrain warranty then void it with thousands of dollars of go-fast parts, and the motor blows, well, I would have dug my own grave already. Bummer, but the point I'm trying to make is that the stock motor is already pretty much running near it's limits from the factory.

That doesn't make it a bad engine though. It just means it's not a great engine to extensively modify. Especially if you like your warranty; I sure like mine!

[Lex]

^ It has aero and suspension problems too??

[kwsmithphoto]

Ya, it has a rear lift issue that I hope to visually document soon. And the stock suspension issues are pretty well documented already.

But what did you expect for $25K, a Ferrari 430?

[Lex]

Originally Posted by kwsmithphoto Ya, it has a rear lift issue that I hope to visually document soon. And the stock suspension issues are pretty well documented already. But what did you expect for $25K, a Ferrari 430?

Suspension we're well aware of - but I am very curious about this lift issue. Spoiler is only aesthetic?