MazdaSpeed 2.3L DISI Turbo Blown Engine Resource Thread

[Stealth01]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Occasionally I'd floor it from about 2000rpms in 6th on the highway and just enjoy the low end torque whoosh.

Good GOD tell me you're kidding....

[Tokay444]

Wish I was. First ever turbo car.

[kwsmithphoto]

Occasionally I'd floor it from about 2000rpms in 6th on the highway and just enjoy the low end torque whoosh.

The turbo isn't up to speed at 2K, so there's relatively power there. I would advise downshifting to get the rpm's above 3K before hammering the go pedal.

Often though, while driving urban freeways, I often feel a stumble in the torque curve if I don't have time to downshift and just hit the pedal from below 3K to merge onto a freeway, when some asshole in the right lane doesn't understand the concept of merging.

So on my 2009 anyway, I try to keep it above 3K while mixing with traffic flow to avoid that power dip that happens on the way from 2.5k to 3k. Lately, most of my driving is at 70mph on urban freeways, which is about 2.9K, right in the danger zone. So I drive it a bit faster in 6th when I can, or downshift and run it in 5th below 70 to keep the revs above 3K.

Meanwhile, the car has acquired an intermittent smoking issue. Runs fine, just billows out smoke if I park it for 20-30 minutes after a long freeway drive. And yes I do some slow driving and idle cool down time before I shut it off. And it's not just startup idle smoke, driving the car just blows even more smoke out.

It's only happened twice though. Once at the end of a 7K interval with Pennzoil PP synthetic 5W30, so I changed it to 5W40 Castrol Syntech and it happened again. So who knows. Gotta feeling a new turbo is in my future. Meanwhile, I mostly just drive it like a normal car without worrying too much about it's fate. Stock motor, no mods at all, and complete records of oil changes done by pro shops. When the turbo fully pops, I'm clear. If the MOTOR pops, I'm clear too. Unless they tell me I'm not, in which case they will see me in court, and lose.

BTW, my car has been carefully maintained and driven, but when when the 60K powertrain warranty is up, it's gonna be for sale. A blown motor at 61K would cost as much as the car is worth. Love the car, but they fuctup the motor. The Gen2's have a new ECU and other minor improvements, but I won't buy one because they're ugly and slower and ugly. And there's some interesting cars in the "hot hatch" category on the horizon.

BTW, next car is gonna be leased, not bought, regardless of who makes it.

[Lex]

^ Your thinking a Focus ST aren't you?

[kwsmithphoto]

Maybe, though I'm not a big fan of 5 cylinder engines. One of the reasons I bought this car instead of a Volvo C30.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by kwsmithphoto Maybe, though I'm not a big fan of 5 cylinder engines. One of the reasons I bought this car instead of a Volvo C30.

It has the 2.0 Ecoboost 4 cylinder.

[DaleNixon]

Wow look at all those linkbacks lol.

[wankular]

haha I always get nervous when I see this thread bumped and see the last poster and think "oh fuck, did so-and-so blow?"

(Dale I'm glad you didn't blow either of your gay cars.)

[mrQQ]

Hi,

I want some clarification on driving MS6 safely

ever since i've read about these rods flying out at part-throttle load, even been PARANOID of getting into boost under low rpm and high load.. paranoid so much, that I stare more into rpms than onto road lol.. ok joking about that, but let's take this scenario:

i'm climbing uphill, 4th gear, and it's @ 2k rpm, and it gets steeper so i need to push it a bit more, no where near WOT, just a bit of push to get some more power for climb..

as it is now, i'm paranoid and i'd downshift to 3rd, but usually i only need just a bit of push in the 4th, but is it safe??

[Stealth01]

Originally Posted by mrQQ Hi, I want some clarification on driving MS6 safely ever since i've read about these rods flying out at part-throttle load, even been PARANOID of getting into boost under low rpm and high load.. paranoid so much, that I stare more into rpms than onto road lol.. ok joking about that, but let's take this scenario: i'm climbing uphill, 4th gear, and it's @ 2k rpm, and it gets steeper so i need to push it a bit more, no where near WOT, just a bit of push to get some more power for climb.. as it is now, i'm paranoid and i'd downshift to 3rd, but usually i only need just a bit of push in the 4th, but is it safe??

Downshift. Definitely.

[mazda.speed3]

Always downshift for an increased load, it's not an automatic that will downshift for you.

[cld12pk2go]

I think it is mostly in the tune or some people simply having the misfortune of having lemon engines.

I have 100's (perhaps >1000 at this point) of WOT pulls starting from 1500-2000 RPMs with the stock turbo...many of them in 6th gear...

No issues.

Of course, my AFR is under control, my boost is in check, and KR is minimal (again all tune related)...

[mrQQ]

auto wouldn't downshift in that scenario, it's not enough load that you'd need to push a lot, just a tad. i guess i could check if turbo spools up any at that setting...

[R.MS3]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go I think it is mostly in the tune or some people simply having the misfortune of having lemon engines. I have 100's (perhaps >1000 at this point) of WOT pulls starting from 1500-2000 RPMs with the stock turbo...many of them in 6th gear... No issues. Of course, my AFR is under control, my boost is in check, and KR is minimal (again all tune related)...

This...

Many people were blowing before because they didn't know of the load/high boost under low RPM issue + putting OTS maps on their cars and not knowing if it was good or not.

We still see a lot of people posting that put an OTS map in but have no idea how their car is behaving. I can only say that's dangerous. The OTS maps from Cobb are far from perfect for these cars.

[Tabasco69]

I was under the impression DISI came from the factory with forged internals? Wrong assumption?
I 'm currently having my original n/a mzr engine built because I foolishly trusted the word of a friend, he claimed that the stock cast internals could withstand 14 psi from a gt28, it did for awhile, but a ring land finally failed, the ultimate cause is hard to determine, it could of been a combination of factors, i.e. a 10% flow devaition on a n/a setup will be nothing but a hiccup, sure the engine will not be running optimal but this not situation that would cause damage 90% of the time but throw a turbo into the mix and a deviation of flow as little as 6% could likely cause a damaging lean occurance, high EGT, and there goes the valve and bam detonation likely to follow causing a ring or land to fail.

Many know this and many don't, proper air to fuel ratios under wot -boost loads are the life and death of an fi engine....one millisecond not in proper state and even the strongest forged parts will fail, and the reason for rich afr's under boost is to provide extra fuel to the cylinder to for quenching/cooling to prevent undefined detonation...if you don't have this quenching going on you have an air rich mixture that burn too hot and uncontrollably.

It is a caculated risk/gamble, we can do everything under the sun and still not have it all covered.....even running stone cold stock, plenty of STI owners and their number 4 cylinder can attest to this and they paid about 10-12k more then we did.

My personally opinion is that part of the problem sounds like loading issues, driver error, that little borg warner it comes with spools fast as shit and builds a fuckton of torque in a heart beat low to mid rpm band, some people may be downshifting try to get inot more boost sooner and just pushing things a little too fast and a little too hard....no car is truely bullet proof and they all like to be driven a certain way....like I said this is just my opinion.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go I think it is mostly in the tune or some people simply having the misfortune of having lemon engines. I have 100's (perhaps >1000 at this point) of WOT pulls starting from 1500-2000 RPMs with the stock turbo...many of them in 6th gear... No issues. Of course, my AFR is under control, my boost is in check, and KR is minimal (again all tune related)...

Just for shits and giggles, here is an example of a pull from < 2000 RPMs from this afternoon...

[802MS3]

detonation kills.

they should teach that in schools

[jozi-111]

Originally Posted by Tabasco69 I was under the impression DISI came from the factory with forged internals? Wrong assumption? I 'm currently having my original n/a mzr engine built because I foolishly trusted the word of a friend, he claimed that the stock cast internals could withstand 14 psi from a gt28, it did for awhile, but a ring land finally failed, the ultimate cause is hard to determine, it could of been a combination of factors, i.e. a 10% flow devaition on a n/a setup will be nothing but a hiccup, sure the engine will not be running optimal but this not situation that would cause damage 90% of the time but throw a turbo into the mix and a deviation of flow as little as 6% could likely cause a damaging lean occurance, high EGT, and there goes the valve and bam detonation likely to follow causing a ring or land to fail. Many know this and many don't, proper air to fuel ratios under wot -boost loads are the life and death of an fi engine....one millisecond not in proper state and even the strongest forged parts will fail, and the reason for rich afr's under boost is to provide extra fuel to the cylinder to for quenching/cooling to prevent undefined detonation...if you don't have this quenching going on you have an air rich mixture that burn too hot and uncontrollably. It is a caculated risk/gamble, we can do everything under the sun and still not have it all covered.....even running stone cold stock, plenty of STI owners and their number 4 cylinder can attest to this and they paid about 10-12k more then we did. My personally opinion is that part of the problem sounds like loading issues, driver error, that little borg warner it comes with spools fast as shit and builds a fuckton of torque in a heart beat low to mid rpm band, some people may be downshifting try to get inot more boost sooner and just pushing things a little too fast and a little too hard....no car is truely bullet proof and they all like to be driven a certain way....like I said this is just my opinion.

This is snapshot from ms6 Tech Training.

Why are these rods so fragile if they are forged?

[Tabasco69]

Read through some of this...I think this is an example of the corporate attitude of acceptable failure ratios....which is evidently not isolated to corporate Mazda
http://http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1632634

[_Toxic_]

Originally Posted by mrQQ Hi, I want some clarification on driving MS6 safely ever since i've read about these rods flying out at part-throttle load, even been PARANOID of getting into boost under low rpm and high load.. paranoid so much, that I stare more into rpms than onto road lol.. ok joking about that, but let's take this scenario: i'm climbing uphill, 4th gear, and it's @ 2k rpm, and it gets steeper so i need to push it a bit more, no where near WOT, just a bit of push to get some more power for climb.. as it is now, i'm paranoid and i'd downshift to 3rd, but usually i only need just a bit of push in the 4th, but is it safe??

Downshift when u need to.. when u feel u loosing speed say when u going up a hill or something.... how fun can it be driving if u always feel paranoid about breaking something?

I mean if u loosing speed or need more speed, downshift! And i dont think the rods would come flying thru your hood just because u accelerate under 2k rpm in 6th gear sometimes... (why u would do that i dont know)

[LilTrix1993]

K, time to break the record... Back in October 2010...

Year: 2010
Make: Mazda
Model: Mazdaspeed 3
Damage: #1 piston through block
Miles: 1x,xxx
When: WOT 5k RPM in 3rd, didn't get to work on time...
Mods: Corksport SRI/TIP, CP-E Catless DP + CP-E CB, UR FMIC, Forge BPV, PT Performance HPFP, Tune...

Only boosted at 3k+ rpms and never went over 6200.
With 9 months of driving it total I didn't even have time to beat on the car.
Scheduled maintenance and oil changes.

[Tomas]

hmmm... #1 piston.
got pics?

[Karmat]

Originally Posted by LilTrix1993 K, time to break the record... Back in October 2010... Year: 2010 Make: Mazda Model: Mazdaspeed 3 Damage: #1 piston through block Miles: 1x,xxx When: WOT 5k RPM in 3rd, didn't get to work on time... Mods: Corksport SRI/TIP, CP-E Catless DP + CP-E CB, UR FMIC, Forge BPV, PT Performance HPFP, Tune... Only boosted at 3k+ rpms and never went over 6200. With 9 months of driving it total I didn't even have time to beat on the car. Scheduled maintenance and oil changes.

How was it tuned?

[LilTrix1993]

Only pic as of now that I would be able to show is what's left over of the oil pump that got violently spewed from the block.. could post in a few hours. Custom tuned, no afr's or psi out of the ordinary.

[R.MS3]

Probable FP problem?

[cld12pk2go]

Tuned by what device exactly?

As an example, if the "tuning device" was a BCD coupled with a MBC then the fail is not unexpected.

[vatordoc]

Originally Posted by LilTrix1993 K, time to break the record... Back in October 2010... Year: 2010 Make: Mazda Model: Mazdaspeed 3 Damage: #1 piston through block Miles: 1x,xxx When: WOT 5k RPM in 3rd, didn't get to work on time... Mods: Corksport SRI/TIP, CP-E Catless DP + CP-E CB, UR FMIC, Forge BPV, PT Performance HPFP, Tune... Only boosted at 3k+ rpms and never went over 6200. With 9 months of driving it total I didn't even have time to beat on the car. Scheduled maintenance and oil changes.

[Cataphract_40]

Looks like 2010s aren't invincible either...

[LilTrix1993]

Ecutek tune. Yea had I known this was such a pile I woulda kept my 05 mazda 3 and lt1 formula, but im gonna upgrade to a ls3 maro, so yea; I'll be leaving this turd, when it was in "it's glory days," in the dust... stock. god bless for those who are making more than 310+ whp and are still going strong, I prolly just got a lemon. <-- Haha yea a lemon, mmm hmmm...

[LilTrix1993]

Teh pics.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by LilTrix1993 Teh pics.

Any chance you can get one of the non broken rods and piston from that motor and send them to me? I will cover shipping.

[cld12pk2go]

Ecutek tune?

You are the first person I have seen with that tuning platform, which still leaves tune up in the air as the root cause of failure. Was there any particular reason you didn't go with Cobb or CP-E, which are more proven?

[Stealth01]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go Ecutek tune? You are the first person I have seen with that tuning platform, which still leaves tune up in the air as the root cause of failure. Was there any particular reason you didn't go with Cobb or CP-E, which are more proven?

$$ I'm betting.

And just because it was tuned doesn't mean it was tuned RIGHT. If the tuner isn't familiar with the DISI 2.3 platform, he could have fucked up any number of things.

[Ckmazdaspeed3]

John@theshop used ecutek. Was it him. I'd be surprised, because the general opinion of him on this forum is that he's a saint. Lol

For those that aren't familiar, it was one of the only tuning options available for gen2 at the time.

[Amazon]

Not the first gen2 to blow Cata, John already popped my buddy's gen2 a few months ago. LilTrix, you have a failure of a fuel pump and were tuned by a guy notorious for his inability to control boost spike, enter in my friend's gen2, smitty, JTMS3, and several others.

Was that "310 whp" on John's dyno? lol

[Texas Speed Demon Fag]

Joe McLugen FTW...not one issue to date, tuned now for more than 6 months.

[wolly6973]

Originally Posted by Ckmazdaspeed3 John@theshop used ecutek. Was it him. I'd be surprised, because the general opinion of him on this forum is that he's a saint. Lol For those that aren't familiar, it was one of the only tuning options available for gen2 at the time.

John is not a saint anymore. It was finally realized that he has no idea what he is doing and is screwing up people's cars.
Now he is in the same failboat as the other John...

[R.MS3]

A warning to all those people that had John's tune in their cars... this is probably because of the fuel pump problem.

[Ckmazdaspeed3]

Originally Posted by wolly6973 John is not a saint anymore. It was finally realized that he has no idea what he is doing and is screwing up people's cars. Now he is in the same failboat as the other John...

I was just kidding bro.

[dizzydtrain]

Any update on that blown 2010? I am curious if it was john that tuned the car or what actually did happen.