MS3 synthetic oil and filter

[ms3077]

It seems most of the techs at the Mazda dealerships are retarded at best and they could give a shit about your car. The RX-8 is the only Mazda as of late that doesn’t take kindly to synthetic motor oil. It’s apparent some techs are getting the MS3 confused with the RX-8 and or putting it in the same category just because it’s a high performance vehicle.

I was at the dealership the other day getting my oil changed / tire rotation and one of the techs started talking to me. He started talking about how a CAI (cold air intake) yields awesome power! 5-6hp he says all enthusiastically and in the same sentence says too bad it will void my warranty.

The more he spoke the more my confidence dropped in their abilities to help me maintain my vehicle. It was scary to learn how little these people actually know. It’s like they literally pick people up from off the street, hand them a wrench and say have at it! I brought to them my own oil (Amsoil 5w30 full synthetic /6qts - 7bucks per qt) but I wouldn’t be surprised if they took my shit (to sell) and put in their factory garbage instead.

I should have asked them where the empty containers were. When they were finally finished with everything I asked about the tire pressure and the tech said he put them at factory specs (34f /32r). However, I recently put my tires at 40psi all around and low and behold they were still at 40psi all around. The cock sucker lied to me, big surprise!

Oh and when I took my car in to them it was clean because I just washed it. When they pulled it up front after they were done it was filthy! They say they washed it as a complimentary service but they did a really crappy job. It was still very wet and water spots all over the fucking place. I had them dry it off and explained to them it was obviously very clean when I bought it in.

Yeah it’s a better idea to just do your own maintenance. You’re the only person that gives a damn about your car. It’s sad but unfortunately true.

- This is Cory Fairbanks Mazda by the way. Off 17/92

[mr_mazda329]

i am currently using PP 10w30. might make the switch to Rotella or Eunos or Motul

[phantom3]

Originally Posted by DR_ I cut a hole in the plastic under tray that is just big enough to change out the oil filter. There is already a hole there but it doesn’t line up with the filter so I just made one that did line up.

My plastic under tray is all cracked up from last winter... My next project is going to be a Carbon fiber / fiberglass version... without filter hole.

[sviki]

Just did my first oil change (myself) at 3100 miles. I used Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 and Mazda OEM filter

[kwsmithphoto]

I think the reason Mazda dealers are so inconsistent about synthetic oil is that you can't run it in rotary engines. But we don't have a rotary engine...

I use PP 5W30. Many reports of it reducing or eliminating the smoking turbo issue on older models, so I figured it's probably the best for this car. Thought about using a 10W30 or 10W40 for it's thicker base stock, but the manual says 5W30 and I like having a warranty.

For filters, any of the synthetic filter media carts are fine. Purolator Pure One, WIX, and Motorcraft all use it (Purolator makes the Motorcraft filters). They filter out finer particles than cheaper, paper filter media.

As for intervals, I've only got 9500 miles on my 13 month old car. The first 2 changes I did at 3K right on the nose, and what came out was dark brown. But I've only got 3500 on what's in there now, and it looks pretty bad, almost black. Granted, there's some hot lapping time and mostly thick, urban, relatively short trip driving in there, but it's getting changed on Monday.

These cars are brutal on oil, so get the good stuff, and change it often.

BTW, the main benefit of using synth oil in these cars is the turbocharger bearing, not extended intervals. Synth oil doesn't turn to coke when it sits in a heat soaked turbo. It also withstands higher temps in general, and has other benefits too.

Back to intervals, they will change because of driving conditions, so just keep your eye on it - if it starts looking like extra dark chocolate, change it out regardless of miles.

[Speed3 Geezer]

Every car group I've belonged to has threads about oil and filters. All of them contain the same opinions and misinformation. Do some research and learn at sites like this:
Oil Filters Revealed - MiniMopar Resources
and this:
The Motor Oil Evaluator: Online Oil Comparison Service

Don't get sucked into the "3,000 mile" BS. It's simply a way for auto parts stores, oil change services, and others to sell their product. Oil changes that exceed manufacturer's recommendations simply piss your money away. Example; back in June I was invited to test drive and evaluate the new R-series Jaguars. Their extremely expensive, high-tech supercharged engines have a recommended oil change interval of 15,000 miles. The technical director from Jaguar was there and he said they were very confident that interval was correct with a conservative safety factor. He pointed out that most of these $85,000+ cars would be leased, and Jaguar would have to resell them with an adequate warranty. If they had any reservations about the oil change interval, they would decrease it, but it wasn't necessary.

[Frequentflyer]

I have more confidence in today's oils than I do in today's oil filters. Oil filter technology hasn't really changed much compared to oil and engine technology. I guess it's one advantage of the spin on conversion, since it lets you use a larger filter element.

[lidokrantz]

Originally Posted by Speed3 Geezer Every car group I've belonged to has threads about oil and filters. All of them contain the same opinions and misinformation. Do some research and learn at sites like this: Oil Filters Revealed - MiniMopar Resources and this: The Motor Oil Evaluator: Online Oil Comparison Service Don't get sucked into the "3,000 mile" BS. It's simply a way for auto parts stores, oil change services, and others to sell their product. Oil changes that exceed manufacturer's recommendations simply piss your money away. Example; back in June I was invited to test drive and evaluate the new R-series Jaguars. Their extremely expensive, high-tech supercharged engines have a recommended oil change interval of 15,000 miles. The technical director from Jaguar was there and he said they were very confident that interval was correct with a conservative safety factor. He pointed out that most of these $85,000+ cars would be leased, and Jaguar would have to resell them with an adequate warranty. If they had any reservations about the oil change interval, they would decrease it, but it wasn't necessary.

Normally i would agree, but after driving for 30years+ now and alway's changing my oil every 5,000 miles with Castrol GTX 10-40...the Mazda DI MZR is different. After reading all the oil analysis charts that members have posted, it was indeed recommended to change it "more frquently" than a normal engine.not an expert here but for some reasons there were signs of gas in the oil in these cars, and the longer one waits on oil changes the more the oil breaks down... so it was made known the oil analysis recc was to change it more....and at $30. for 6 qts of Mobil1 or PP it's cheap insruance. But hey, if you wanna wait till 5-7-15,000 miles go for it....I sleep better changing more frequently and so far in 3 yeas MY CAR HAS RESPONDED by running great, it likes fresh synth oil, it told me so as well...the 2010 Speed3's are quite outspoken with that all new front end fish "GILL" face, and way more outspoken......

[smakdown61]

Most of the PP oil analysis I have seen show the oil beginning to break down with aluminum and low tbn at around 6500-7k miles. I usually change mine every 4-5k miles. Even on this motor I don't think 3k changes on the dot is necessary unless you beat and track the car. 7500 miles like the manual says is definitely pushing it though.

[kwsmithphoto]

Don't get sucked into the "3,000 mile" BS. It's simply a way for auto parts stores, oil change services, and others to sell their product.

I completely agree, but this is not a Jaguar engine we're talking about - it's basically a just an old light truck engine that was modified for DI and turbocharging. The motor pollutes it's own oil, thanks to a screwy PCV system, and an ECU that thinks throwing more fuel into it is the solution to everything.

Result? 1960's oil change intervals. I don't need to run a UOA to tell me that black oil after 3500 miles needs to be changed.

I'm not real happy about it, but it is what it is. I never abuse my car but I do drive it quickly, and at times, very quickly. Combined with some cold start, short trip, errand running, I can see and smell that the oil in these motors needs to be changed at much shorter intervals than most modern cars do, regardless of the products you use.

It's just the nature of the engine, and how you use it. If you go 5K+ and your oil color and level is still clean and full, then you're doing quite well. But if it's dark and low after 3500 miles, you obviously need to change the oil and filter. It really is that simple, regardless of what the manual says, or what other engines can do.

My last car had a high revving, normally aspirated V6. The oil always looked good for about 5K-7K, depending on how I drove it. This car, not so much, the dipstiick has taught me that it needs more frequent changes. Like I said, it mostly depends on how you drive it, but I haven't had a car that is this hard on oil since the 1980's.

Originally Posted by Blackspeed you can get the filter wrench with a puchase of a box of filters here: Genuine(Cartridge) Mazda Oil Filter New Lower Price Pack of 5 with Free Oil Filter Wrench

Originally Posted by smakdown61 Most of the PP oil analysis I have seen show the oil beginning to break down with aluminum and low tbn at around 6500-7k miles. I usually change mine every 4-5k miles. Even on this motor I don't think 3k changes on the dot is necessary unless you beat and track the car. 7500 miles like the manual says is definitely pushing it though.

Indeed. If I just added a quart and drove it another 4000 miles, that would be abusive for sure. Ironically, it would still have been maintained properly, as noted in the manual.

Like I said above, learn to read your dipstick, and change it as needed. In my case that seems to be about every 3K. And like I said above, I'm not real happy about it, but I'm doing it anyway because I bought the car new, and need it to last.

[smakdown61]

Originally Posted by kwsmithphoto I completely agree, but this is not a Jaguar engine we're talking about - it's basically a just an old light truck engine that was modified for DI and turbocharging. The motor pollutes it's own oil, thanks to a screwy PCV system, and an ECU that thinks throwing more fuel into it is the solution to everything. Result? 1960's oil change intervals. I don't need to run a UOA to tell me that black oil after 3500 miles needs to be changed. I'm not real happy about it, but it is what it is. I never abuse my car but I do drive it quickly, and at times, very quickly. Combined with some cold start, short trip, errand running, I can see and smell that the oil in these motors needs to be changed at much shorter intervals than most modern cars do, regardless of the products you use. It's just the nature of the engine, and how you use it. If you go 5K+ and your oil color and level is still clean and full, then you're doing quite well. But if it's dark and low after 3500 miles, you obviously need to change the oil and filter. It really is that simple, regardless of what the manual says, or what other engines can do. My last car had a high revving, normally aspirated V6. The oil always looked good for about 5K-7K, depending on how I drove it. This car, not so much, the dipstiick has taught me that it needs more frequent changes. Like I said, it mostly depends on how you drive it, but I haven't had a car that is this hard on oil since the 1980's. Indeed. If I just added a quart and drove it another 4000 miles, that would be abusive for sure. Ironically, it would still have been maintained properly, as noted in the manual. Like I said above, learn to read your dipstick, and change it as needed. In my case that seems to be about every 3K. And like I said above, I'm not real happy about it, but I'm doing it anyway because I bought the car new, and need it to last.

Actually in this case with this motor, I think the oil tends to look way worse than it is. When I did my second oil change at 3k miles my oil looked pretty dark, but the analysis came back like it could go another 3k. Same with the one I did at 5k, dark oil but still fine.

[kwsmithphoto]

Interesting. What lab did you use?

All I know is that I was trained to read dipsticks the old fashioned way, with carbureted muscle cars that just freaking dumped fuel into the motor all the time when modded for performance. Or they just didn't work right and ran too rich.

My last 3 cars had modern fuel injection, and the oil was never black at oil change time, even with extended intervals like 7K. Some explanation of how an MS3's oil, that's as as black as the tires are, is still good for another 3000 miles would be appreciated.

I've always been told that black oil means excess, partially burned fuel, is blowing by the piston rings, and compromising the oil's ability to do it's job.

IOW, if your oil is black or near black, the oil filter is usually clogged and is just using it's bypass valve to recirculate it back into the crankcase. This, as I've been told for many many years, by people who should know, is not a good thing.

So enlighten me. This is my first turbocharged car. I don't do oil changes myself anymore, but I did manage to hose a Toyota AE86 engine by ignoring what mechanics told me for years - if it's black, change it!

[HLR Element]

yea... i looked my dipstick yesterday and the oil was dark... looked at my dad's car with the a few more miles, his is round 2k, mine 1.2-1.3k, not dark one bit, looks like new oil... why are our cars so dirty?

[nyghtryder]

kwsmithphoto:
i was taught the same way, however i get a uoa everychange and will continue for the life of my car. Blackstone labs is saying i should chnage 5-6k and when i change it, and its pitch black. However, im still changing at 3k cuz oil is cheap.

The reason I think the oil always looks dirty is cuz of this shitty pcv system that keeps putting fuel in our oil

[Frequentflyer]

Ah yes, the dark oil myth. Almost as good as the 3k mile interval myth. Just because the oil is dark doesn't mean it needs to be changed. It means it's doing its job by suspending soot. A good detergent oil will get darker sooner than a crappy oil. Wouldn't you rather have that soot and shit in the oil and not getting caked on to parts in your motor? This soot poses no danger to the motor while suspended in the oil and it doesn't mean the filter is clogged. Most soot gets passed through the filter because it's too small. The only accurate way to tell whether an oil has life left in it or not is by getting a UOA. Not by smelling it and not by seeing how dark it is. I go 5,000 miles on my Rotella T Syn and I've gotten 3 UOA's showing normal wear and high TBN. They've recommended I go 6,500, but I'll probably stick with 5k.

[kwsmithphoto]

Well I'm not going to argue with test results, and yes I know a primary goal of any lubricant is to hold abrasives in suspension so they don't wear the metals down. Also, the whole point of synthetic media in oil filters is the oil stays visibly cleaner for a longer amount of time, because they trap finer particles than paper media filters do. I had my last car for 10 years, tried different filters, so I've seen it first hand.

Maybe I need to update my thinking, but for more decades than I've been alive, the rule of thumb by experienced techs is that the darker it is, the less effective it is. And if it's gone totally black, it's no longer being filtered but is being bypassed because the filter media is saturated.

Unfortunately I didn't get a sample of my oil change last week, but I'll run this fill until it turns black and send it in for analysis. It just runs against everything I know about this stuff. And checking the oil to find it pitch black is a bit disconcerting, the only time I've see that before is with neglected engines, including one I neglected myself, and it got pretty expensive.

But technology marches on. I just want to see a UOA of blackened oil in my car first before I decide it's ok to run it that way. I'll post back next year to say thanks for the update. )

[06Speed6]

In all honesty, the fram filters are fine for this car since we run a cartrige filter. The bad rep that the Fram filters got was from racers using older v8s that had upgraded oil systems that could push more than 300psi and pull a hard enough vacuum to collapse a standard filter. The reason they had these oil systems is because of the massive bearing clearances they ran and the thick 30w50 oil they had to run to keep from crushing the molicules in their bone oil with their mega hp nitrous and forced induction systems. This is why you can buy those huge fram hp series filters that cost $20 a pop... they have a burst strength of over 500psi.

As far as oil is concerned, Moble 1 "full synthetic" is actually a blend. You have to buy the Mobil 1 Racing oil to get a actual synthetic, but that stuff isnt emissions compatible.

Castrol Syn Euro Spec, Rotella, and PP are probably the best commonly available oils out there right now.

[shpankey]

The Fram Extended Guard filters are definitely one of the best filters out there. Period. Their other lower quality ones however are pretty crap.

[JLB26]

What about Royal Purple??

[nyghtryder]

Originally Posted by JLB26 What about Royal Purple??

its good stuff and you can find it at pepboys.

[kwsmithphoto]

And it's really, really expensive. Why?

[Frequentflyer]

Don't bother with Royal Bullshit, errr.. I mean Purple. There are better oils for less $$$ out there, namely PP and Rotella T.

[ms3077]

So is the general consenses that a 5w40 full synthetic motor oil better for the MS3? I just started noticing my turbo smoking under the hood these past couple of days after some really hard pulls. I'm hoping maybe that switching to 5w40 helps with this..

[nyghtryder]

Originally Posted by ms3077 So is the general consenses that a 5w40 full synthetic motor oil better for the MS3? I just started noticing my turbo smoking under the hood these past couple of days after some really hard pulls. I'm hoping maybe that switching to 5w40 helps with this..

im not smoking yet and i switched. I will have a uoa in a few weeks to see if there are any other real differences besides less smoke, for those who do.

[uthemang31]

Originally Posted by ANGRYEAGLE I was also told by my dealer that they do not recommend synthetic. i thought that they would jump at the chance to make more money off of me, but no. so I just let them do my oil changes while it is under warranty.

I was told the same thing, when I brought my car in for oil change during this winter. It cost me ~50 dollars for an oil change. Wow

[IshiKage]

PP 10w30 FTW. smoked on amsoil and mobile 1 5w30 and 40. going on my 4th oil change with PP and no smoke. now i use 5qts PP and 1qt Lucas oil stabilizer

[08cosmic3]

I have always run the Mobil 1 5w-30 extended performance with Mazda filters every 5000
miles. Studies I have seen say that the M1 ext per is among the best and much better than the reg M1

Is the smoking turbo issue the only reason to switch to the Rotella 5w-40 or another 5w-40 oil? I don't smoke.

I have never used the Rotella oil. Tell me more because I'm due for a change and yesterday my Wal mart was out of the Mobil 1 5w-30 ext per.

PP 5w-30 0r 5w-40?
Rotella 5w-40?

[mr_mazda329]

Originally Posted by 08cosmic3 Is the smoking turbo issue the only reason to switch to the Rotella 5w-40 or another 5w-40 oil? I don't smoke.

No. It also is a real synthetic where as M1 is just a blend. Rotella is a heavy duty oil that helps fight fuel dilution. A problem found in diesel motors.

[nyghtryder]

I use the M1 5w40 for turbo diesel trucks, which im almost positive is a full synthetic. Walmart carries it too.

[BacDoc]

I was always a M1 fan until I noticed my LGT was eating it for lunch. Now I use GTX and Fram filters. Previous owner used M1 my ms6 so well see.

[PAM.srt4]

Originally Posted by bbonkboy a) how often to change the oil on synthetic oil? (ex 7.5k miles) b) what kind/brand/type of filter to use? so I'm using Mobil 1 full synthetic 5w-30. But which filter should i match with it? i was told to stay away from "fram". recommend any good ones?

The filters we sell at PT-Performnance are the Genuine Parts oil filter. thats what we recommand. here is a link.
PT-Performance.com

[shpankey]

Currently Penzzoil Platinum 5w-30 with Wix filter, but I'm switching to a Purolator Pure One filter since a lot of the Wix are now being made in Mexico and China. Some aren't, so it's a chance thing. I'm also switching to German Castrol (aka GC) 0w-30 since I got a stockpile of it on AAP's last sale, in which I got AutoZone to match.

I change at 4,200 miles, but that's early. I do it so my miles match perfectly with Blackstone Laboratories average testing miles. When I finalize on oil, I will probably go to 5k. After the warranty probably to 7.5k, or at least 6k.

I plan on testing a bunch of oils.

Current: PP 5w-30, then GC 0w-30, then M1 0w-40, then SynPower 5w-30 then PP 5w-50 Euro, then QS Ultimate 5w-30. I'll probably do some of them twice. I'm doing a UOA on each as I go.

p.s. the cheap Fram's are garbage, stay away from them! but the "Extended Guards" are absolutely some of the best filters out there. Do not hesitate to use one of those. The Tough Guards are decent to average. Would use one myself. But the cheappy Fram's, oh my, do not put one of those on!