motor mount confusion

[mexicant]

i have been gone for a while, please cut me a little slack.

There is a dark star passenger mount group buy and also a trz transmission side mount for sale on the pg website, which one would be more beneficial? Nobody seems to know anything about either of the 2. thanks. my goal is performance not comfort. sacrifice for performance

[AutoXRacer]

The TRZ tranny mount is more beneficial initially.

My TRZ poly cured wheel hop, minimized my engine movement to improve shifting quality, and improved engine response.

Definitely one of the best mods you can do.

[mexicant]

I was actually talking about this trz Mazda3Online :: ProtegeGarage :: MazdaRX8Online - Your Source for Mazda Performance

vs. the dark star passenger side mount group buy going on http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...0-shipped.html

[AutoXRacer]

What the hell does that TRZ tranny mount bolt in on a MS3...? As far as I know, we only have 3 mounts; one on each side and the tranny mount...

I have no idea where that mount goes...looks like something for a MS6 instead of a MS3... Sorry, I'm no help here.

The Dark Star ones make sense, those are just like stock side mounts. But TRZ's just doesn't look like anything I've seen on the car.

[Grim]

Originally Posted by AutoXRacer What the hell does that TRZ tranny mount bolt in on a MS3...? As far as I know, we only have 3 mounts; one on each side and the tranny mount... I have no idea where that mount goes...looks like something for a MS6 instead of a MS3... Sorry, I'm no help here. The Dark Star ones make sense, those are just like stock side mounts. But TRZ's just doesn't look like anything I've seen on the car.

Its the tranny mount under the battery.The darkstar one is the one that's on the passenger side by the power steering reservoir.

[CraigHJr]

The transmission mount will be way more benificial. It is supposed to reduce the flex and help eliminate the broken mounts and engine dropping failures. The TRZ will also be avalible with a bracket to replace the crappy aluminum one on the stock speed 3. PTP is also working on a mount (different design same goal) for this location that as of today is you guessed it 2 weeks away.

The Darkstar mount is a rebranded solid motor mount for the engine side. Personally I am not a fan. There is word that TRZ is also working on a solution for this side.

[gsrtype1]

subscribe button

[mexicant]

hahaha, too late. I just bought the dark star mount. And when trz is gonna finalize the trans side mount, im gonna get that too

[ptperformance]

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...new-mount.html

Try this if you want a real trans mount. The stock tower is crap and by putting rigid urathane in there its just going to transfer the energy into the bolt and tower. Causing even more problems then the stocker.

[mexicant]

i am in the market for a trans side mount. give us a date or and a production picture and i will be on board :-)

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by 08ms3bm i am in the market for a trans side mount. give us a date or and a production picture and i will be on board :-)

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...start-now.html

Parts are here, see picture in the above thread. I hope to have the first 10 to 15 ready for powder coating Tuesday. End of next week should have units up on the site ready for ordering. I will be NDA'ing a few people on here parts so they can write a review on them.

[darkstarmotorsports]

Originally Posted by 08ms3bm hahaha, too late. I just bought the dark star mount. And when trz is gonna finalize the trans side mount, im gonna get that too

Our transmission mount will be release next week. and it will be made with same great material that our Rear motor mount was made with.

As for our passenger side mount, it's not just a rebadged OEM mount. The structure of the mount is stronger, and it consiist of a solid core, not a liquid core like the OEM mount

[CraigHJr]

Originally Posted by darkstarmotorsports Our transmission mount will be release next week. and it will be made with same great material that our Rear motor mount was made with. As for our passenger side mount, it's not just a rebadged OEM mount. The structure of the mount is stronger, and it consiist of a solid core, not a liquid core like the OEM mount

I didn't say rebranded OEM. It looks to be a rebranded Midevil mount? Are you the same company or something. I also saw in a thread that you stated BS delete and oil pan baffle are F2 units. I just like giving credit where credit is due.

[mexicant]

Originally Posted by CraigHJr I didn't say rebranded OEM. It looks to be a rebranded Midevil mount? Are you the same company or something. I also saw in a thread that you stated BS delete and oil pan baffle are F2 units. I just like giving credit where credit is due.

Yes, in dark star's group buy thread it states that they are medieval mounts :-)

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by darkstarmotorsports Our transmission mount will be release next week. and it will be made with same great material that our Rear motor mount was made with. As for our passenger side mount, it's not just a rebadged OEM mount. The structure of the mount is stronger, and it consiist of a solid core, not a liquid core like the OEM mount

Hope you got rid of the tower and vertical bolt. That is where 90% of the problem comes from with the OEM design.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by darkstarmotorsports Our transmission mount will be release next week. and it will be made with same great material that our Rear motor mount was made with. As for our passenger side mount, it's not just a rebadged OEM mount. The structure of the mount is stronger, and it consiist of a solid core, not a liquid core like the OEM mount

I want to have some input on the pass side mount that you guys market. Its not the liquid filed unit but its still of the stock design. Weather or not you use a solid inner bushing or not, the design sucks and failures are still going to happen with the stock design. You need to move away from the stock design and get into new design that addresses the top and bottom (vertical loading) of the mount. The mounts need to have X and Y axis addressed in order to keep the motor fixed but still keeping the vibes down. This is the trick to resolve wheel hop and broken mounts.

[darkstarmotorsports]

Originally Posted by ptperformance I want to have some input on the pass side mount that you guys market. Its not the liquid filed unit but its still of the stock design. Weather or not you use a solid inner bushing or not, the design sucks and failures are still going to happen with the stock design. You need to move away from the stock design and get into new design that addresses the top and bottom (vertical loading) of the mount. The mounts need to have X and Y axis addressed in order to keep the motor fixed but still keeping the vibes down. This is the trick to resolve wheel hop and broken mounts.

The current passenger side mount we market now, uses a stronger bracket than the OEM mount. As regarding the design, Medieval Motorsports is looking into another design, where it will use that concept and the 70A hor pour material that they use in thier curent mounts.

[meha11]

I am about to through money at some side/trans mounts,I also wanted to get all the info together in one place for the next guy and since this thread exists, whats the point of starting a new one. here’s what I know of-

SU side & trans mount combo
Mazdaspeed 3 Motor Mounts


TRZ Trans mount
Mazda3Online :: ProtegeGarage :: MazdaRX8Online - Your Source for Mazda Performance
Is this the same TRZ? TRZ Motorsports


PT Performance trans mount
http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...new-mount.html
PT Performance site doesn’t show the trans mount…… PT-Performance.com


Darkstar passenger mount
http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...0-shipped.html

Mazda 3 Front Passenger Motor Mount



I don’t want to buy something built by a Hillbilly/Hayseed type in his shed, I’m looking for a product engineered and designed by competent people to be better than the stock mounts, something with some thought put into it and above all something that works. I don’t want to install mounts then have them break and be in a whole world of poop with no chance of warranty work getting done. I guess my point is we have poor mounts and with a modded car warranty work is at the discretion of the dealer but at least I stand a chance of getting it fixed if the stockers break, I don’t want to spend money and be worse off if the new mounts break.

If there are any more available other than the ones above and especially if you have first hand knowledge of them please post up, I am looking for info on the following-
1 Build quality
2 Manufacture reputation
3 Availability
4 Side affects of the install.

From reading it seems like the PT performance mounts are a good product but I have not read any independent customer reviews on any side/trans mounts, surprisingly I know least about the SU mounts.
Suggestions anyone?

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by meha11 I am about to through money at some side/trans mounts,I also wanted to get all the info together in one place for the next guy and since this thread exists, whats the point of starting a new one. here’s what I know of- SU side & trans mount combo Mazdaspeed 3 Motor Mounts TRZ Trans mount Mazda3Online :: ProtegeGarage :: MazdaRX8Online - Your Source for Mazda Performance Is this the same TRZ? TRZ Motorsports PT Performance trans mount http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...new-mount.html PT Performance site doesn’t show the trans mount…… PT-Performance.com Darkstar passenger mount http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...0-shipped.html Mazda 3 Front Passenger Motor Mount I don’t want to buy something built by a Hillbilly/Hayseed type in his shed, I’m looking for a product engineered and designed by competent people to be better than the stock mounts, something with some thought put into it and above all something that works. I don’t want to install mounts then have them break and be in a whole world of poop with no chance of warranty work getting done. I guess my point is we have poor mounts and with a modded car warranty work is at the discretion of the dealer but at least I stand a chance of getting it fixed if the stockers break, I don’t want to spend money and be worse off if the new mounts break. If there are any more available other than the ones above and especially if you have first hand knowledge of them please post up, I am looking for info on the following- 1 Build quality 2 Manufacture reputation 3 Availability 4 Side affects of the install. From reading it seems like the PT performance mounts are a good product but I have not read any independent customer reviews on any side/trans mounts, surprisingly I know least about the SU mounts. Suggestions anyone?

If all goes well we will have a review up in little over a weeks time. I want to break down your 1 - 4,

1. .250 plate steel and our urathane is only used by 2 other speed shops nation wide. These are about the best materials your going to get. Mounts are welded and assembled by a 10 year licensed welder. We "garrentee" the quality.

2. This is going to be a tough one because I have been slow in getting anything else to market for the MS3. I have backed up any and all problems that we have had here on the forum.

3. 50 on hand in 10 to 15 days with another 100 ready in 2 weeks if necessary.

4. Little bit of vibration and a whole lot less wheel hop. There is going to be a little surprise coming with all our trans mounts as well, something to make it a wheel hop eliminating "kit". I am going to let the review point out the additional part that completes this mount.

A lot went into the design of our mount. We have 4 different prototypes built (and failed) till we got to this final design. The major thing to look at is the location and direction of the bolt. You do not want the bolt to be the load bearing and vertical stabilizer that holds both the lower and upper parts of the mount together. The poor bolt is getting twisted, pushed, lifted, dropped, and bent all at the same time. Our mount transfeers the load into the mount and away from the bolt. There will not be another mount on the market that can match our design (unless its copied) or strength, while still offering DD comfort.

[darkstarmotorsports]

Originally Posted by ptperformance If all goes well we will have a review up in little over a weeks time. I want to break down your 1 - 4, 1. .250 plate steel and our urathane is only used by 2 other speed shops nation wide. These are about the best materials your going to get. Mounts are welded and assembled by a 10 year licensed welder. We "garrentee" the quality. 2. This is going to be a tough one because I have been slow in getting anything else to market for the MS3. I have backed up any and all problems that we have had here on the forum. 3. 50 on hand in 10 to 15 days with another 100 ready in 2 weeks if necessary. 4. Little bit of vibration and a whole lot less wheel hop. There is going to be a little surprise coming with all our trans mounts as well, something to make it a wheel hop eliminating "kit". I am going to let the review point out the additional part that completes this mount. A lot went into the design of our mount. We have 4 different prototypes built (and failed) till we got to this final design. The major thing to look at is the location and direction of the bolt. You do not want the bolt to be the load bearing and vertical stabilizer that holds both the lower and upper parts of the mount together. The poor bolt is getting twisted, pushed, lifted, dropped, and bent all at the same time. Our mount transfeers the load into the mount and away from the bolt. There will not be another mount on the market that can match our design (unless its copied) or strength, while still offering DD comfort.

LOL, sounds like we need to have a Transmission motor Mount shoot out!!!

Medieval will be releasing their Transmission motor mount this week, I will receive the first shipment, and I'll start a Group Buy for all the forum members with a discounted price. The Mount will consist the NASA grade 70A hot pour material for the mount. Just like our rear motor mount, this material will hold like 90 duro, but will the vibrations of 70 duro because of the anti-vibration molecules. Also brackets will be made with Military spec steel for durability and lasting performance. The price will be lower than any competitors mount on the market.

[Laloosh]

like i said before....lol at denial

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by darkstarmotorsports LOL, sounds like we need to have a Transmission motor Mount shoot out!!! Medieval will be releasing their Transmission motor mount this week, I will receive the first shipment, and I'll start a Group Buy for all the forum members with a discounted price. The Mount will consist the NASA grade 70A hot pour material for the mount. Just like our rear motor mount, this material will hold like 90 duro, but will the vibrations of 70 duro because of the anti-vibration molecules. Also brackets will be made with Military spec steel for durability and lasting performance. The price will be lower than any competitors mount on the market.

When you ready let me know, a good shoot out is what the community needs. Its great to hear about the price but did you change the stress riser that occurs with the stock mount/bolt? You can replace all the parts you want but if the location of the bolt stayed the same.... I can not see this being a solution to the problem of breaking bolts. I guess we all have to wait for the pictures to show up, then we can decide.

[meha11]

Anyone know anything about this

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by meha11 Anyone know anything about this

Same problem, bolt location was never changed. Stock bolt location for the mount will only end bad for the trans side mount.

[meha11]

Originally Posted by Laloosh only option? Your saddly mistaking. TRZ has the mount and bracket shipping as we speak. Darkstars mount will be available this week and CPE is finishing them up as we speak.

Is the statement about CP-e an actual fact or just rumors? They make very good quality products and if their's isnt far away then it will be worth waiting to compare it with PTP's

Randy, you got info on this?

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by CraigHJr The transmission mount will be way more benificial. It is supposed to reduce the flex and help eliminate the broken mounts and engine dropping failures. The TRZ will also be avalible with a bracket to replace the crappy aluminum one on the stock speed 3. PTP is also working on a mount (different design same goal) for this location that as of today is you guessed it 2 weeks away. The Darkstar mount is a rebranded solid motor mount for the engine side. Personally I am not a fan. There is word that TRZ is also working on a solution for this side.

Mounts are done and we will be taking pre-orders on Friday. Please, the design is far beyond what the others have to offer. The vertical bolt is the problem and if you think replacing the top and bottom brakets is going to keep that one bolt from breaking, your kidding yourself. We now have an insert that comes with our trans mount for free to help with the problems we are starting to see with the pass side mount. Its not a new mount, just an insert to keep the mount from moving around so much. So far its a huge help in keeping the mount in place and a little more rigid. Pictures are up http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...now-stock.html at this link. Thanks.

[darkstarmotorsports]

New Transmission mount Group Buy

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...0-shipped.html

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by darkstarmotorsports New Transmission mount Group Buy http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...0-shipped.html

The bolt loading should have been moved to a different load axis. I would include a saftey wire or strap to keep the trans from dropping out when the bolt breaks, just an insurance policy.

Take this as me offering, help not critizing the part or bashing it, just help in trying to keep your customers happy.

[darkstarmotorsports]

.

[TRU-BOOST]

i have the TRZ trans mount and it rocks. the story about the bolt location doesnt mean anything once you remove the lash. the stock bolts/tower piece brake because the stock mount allows the full weight of the driveline to slam off of them. once a firm mount(TRZ) is fitted to the car that same old bolt/tower do just fine. i have hole shotted mine numerous time off the 2 step and on slicks...what more proof can you need. as for the pass side mount. i dont think its needed, but thats just my thought. that mount really doesnt take any abuse. with the other mounts done i will leave the pass. side alone. that way there is some rubber to absorb "some" vibrations.

ugh... more bolt together parts from SU. as if 1 bolt on the trans mount isnt bad enough, they add an additional bolt to their mount. dumbasses !

laloosh has a TRZ mount on the way thay i sent him. it will be nice to see someone elses opiion on it.

[ptperformance]

No comment, there is so much wrong with what you just stated everthing I would have to say would just not be nice. I am here to play nice so I will let others make up there minds on the design and "lash" of the motor.

[TRU-BOOST]

i am open to criticism. in fact i like it. i know what works, and so does TRZ. they have been doing mounts/suspension related parts for decades for cars that make more power than any MS3 will ever see. if it wasnt the right way to go about it, believe me it wouldnt be this way. this thing is just like their lower mount...simple and effective. all the other over engineered stuff just complicates things and this usually leads to failures. 2 piece designs, re-filled stock mounts, "wonder rubber" instead of polurethane, relocated bolt holes/mounting points are all examples. but hey i can only speak about what i have. and what i have is a race ready, but still streetable trans mount that has taken everything i have thrown at it, and will continue to do so.

[desertrat]

If I've been a good boy this year santa is gonna bring me something from TRZ.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by TRU-BOOST i am open to criticism. in fact i like it. i know what works, and so does TRZ. they have been doing mounts/suspension related parts for decades for cars that make more power than any MS3 will ever see. if it wasnt the right way to go about it, believe me it wouldnt be this way. this thing is just like their lower mount...simple and effective. all the other over engineered stuff just complicates things and this usually leads to failures. 2 piece designs, re-filled stock mounts, "wonder rubber" instead of polurethane, relocated bolt holes/mounting points are all examples. but hey i can only speak about what i have. and what i have is a race ready, but still streetable trans mount that has taken everything i have thrown at it, and will continue to do so.

I am sorry but :phillyb: on the bolded part. I guess you would rather fly in a plane that is "just ok" then one that has back us systems on top of back up systems. Now before you say "there not even similar", they are. If you engineer something it doesn't matter if you put it on a candy bar or the space shuttle, you put the most thought and process the proper way of doing it not what works best as the simplest design.... thats just foolish.

You have valid points on what you have stated otherwise. Please let us know when it stops putting up with the daily abuse .

[TRU-BOOST]

Originally Posted by ptperformance Please let us know when it stops putting up with the daily abuse .

i'll make sure to do that. and you can go ahead and hold your breath until it happens...deal ?

[darkstarmotorsports]

Originally Posted by ptperformance The bolt loading should have been moved to a different load axis. I would include a saftey wire or strap to keep the trans from dropping out when the bolt breaks, just an insurance policy. Take this as me offering, help not critizing the part or bashing it, just help in trying to keep your customers happy.

Our design has changed, to give better support

[medieval]

Originally Posted by ptperformance The bolt loading should have been moved to a different load axis. I would include a saftey wire or strap to keep the trans from dropping out when the bolt breaks, just an insurance policy. Take this as me offering, help not critizing the part or bashing it, just help in trying to keep your customers happy.

Helping, no. Your information is bias. To much bias information is being spread with little to no technical data to support it. As for the bolt breaking, it will not happen. The bolt is not the weak point in our transmission mount. The bolt is far stronger than the bushings or the transmission bolt hole threads.

The simple fact is the bushings are far weaker than the bolt. The bolt is stronger than the bolt hole threads in the transmission case. The bushings would give out long before the bolt would. The axis in which the torque is driven through plays a roll in where my bushing and bolt location was placed. That bolt has a minimum of 150,000 psi of tensile strength and 130,000 psi of yield strength. There is no way the speed 3 could deliver the horsepower or torque needed to shear this bolt.

[kingpin748]

Originally Posted by medieval That bolt has a minimum of 150,000 psi of tensile strength and 130,000 psi of yield strength. There is no way the speed 3 could deliver the horsepower or torque needed to shear this bolt.

Mine can, but I don't' have a dyno sheet so you'll just have to take my word for it.

[medieval]

Originally Posted by kingpin748 Mine can, but I don't' have a dyno sheet so you'll just have to take my word for it.

I have learned long ago that a great deal of bias and unproven statements are loosen thrown around. Every manufacture feels their product is better than the next ( Just ask them ) and some go to lengths of trying to look as though they have all the answers without supporting it with test results. Attempts to pick apart another companies product with simple minded comments of so called concern for the customer is opinion unless supported with actual test results.. I am always open to having my products tested against the next. If the competitors product beats ours in a test, we will go back to the drawing board and redesign. I will be doing a test next week to end all this, "The bolt is weak" conspiracy theory's. I will mock up a jig and test a STOCK transmission mount and the stress needed to shear the bolt. I will then do the same test on our mount. Data supported with actual test's and facts.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by medieval Helping, no. Your information is bias. To much bias information is being spread with little to no technical data to support it. As for the bolt breaking, it will not happen. The bolt is not the weak point in our transmission mount. The bolt is far stronger than the bushings or the transmission bolt hole threads. The simple fact is the bushings are far weaker than the bolt. The bolt is stronger than the bolt hole threads in the transmission case. The bushings would give out long before the bolt would. The axis in which the torque is driven through plays a roll in where my bushing and bolt location was placed. That bolt has a minimum of 150,000 psi of tensile strength and 130,000 psi of yield strength. There is no way the speed 3 could deliver the horsepower or torque needed to shear this bolt.

100% correct, whats the cycle life of the bolt? What is the % of total deflection before it quits returning to it "center". These are the questions you are going to have to look at. There are 10 12mm head bolts on a SRT4 motor. It has been proven that they start to get weak over time vs with raw power. Heat cycling plays a part in these bolts but this is just an example of how you can have over 1 million psi of total tensile strength holding the head down but the little ole 80k psi generated by the motor can weaken the bolts over time. Time will be the enemy and if not that the lower tripod will be when you start seeing higher HP MS3 using the other mounts.

Its a design flaw, simple as it gets. Those that know what I am talking about can connect the 2, others can see that there is more put into addressing the problem with our mounts then the others on the market. We changed the load point on the bolt, we changed the mount axsis, we changed out the lower tripod. Why is it that we did this? To fix the problems that come with the stock mount and tripod. Is that biased, nope it simple fact that the factory design was garbage and continuing to build around it is foolish.