motor mount confusion

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by medieval I have learned long ago that a great deal of bias and unproven statements are loosen thrown around. Every manufacture feels their product is better than the next ( Just ask them ) and some go to lengths of trying to look as though they have all the answers without supporting it with test results. Attempts to pick apart another companies product with simple minded comments of so called concern for the customer is opinion unless supported with actual test results.. I am always open to having my products tested against the next. If the competitors product beats ours in a test, we will go back to the drawing board and redesign. I will be doing a test next week to end all this, "The bolt is weak" conspiracy theory's. I will mock up a jig and test a STOCK transmission mount and the stress needed to shear the bolt. I will then do the same test on our mount. Data supported with actual test's and facts.

I will be more then happy to send one of our mounts for the testing. I would like to see cycle testing as well to confirm the bolts cycle life. I have to ask what happens when the tripod gives out before the bolt... then what.

Last thing I wanted to offer out there. If the bolt is not the problem... then why are so many breaking at the bolt and why did Mazda have a recall on them and the mount? I am sorry but I think that Mazda is far from being "biased" on what the problem is.

[medieval]

Originally Posted by ptperformance I will be more then happy to send one of our mounts for the testing. I would like to see cycle testing as well to confirm the bolts cycle life. I have to ask what happens when the tripod gives out before the bolt... then what. Last thing I wanted to offer out there. If the bolt is not the problem... then why are so many breaking at the bolt and why did Mazda have a recall on them and the mount? I am sorry but I think that Mazda is far from being "biased" on what the problem is.

I have no issue with that. I'll let you know next week and have you send over your mount.
As for the bolt Mazda uses and the one we use, 2 different things ( just like your bolt choice).
If you look at your mount and mine, they are not far off on design.

[medieval]

Originally Posted by ptperformance 100% correct, whats the cycle life of the bolt? What is the % of total deflection before it quits returning to it "center". These are the questions you are going to have to look at. There are 10 12mm head bolts on a SRT4 motor. It has been proven that they start to get weak over time vs with raw power. Heat cycling plays a part in these bolts but this is just an example of how you can have over 1 million psi of total tensile strength holding the head down but the little ole 80k psi generated by the motor can weaken the bolts over time. Time will be the enemy and if not that the lower tripod will be when you start seeing higher HP MS3 using the other mounts. Its a design flaw, simple as it gets. Those that know what I am talking about can connect the 2, others can see that there is more put into addressing the problem with our mounts then the others on the market. We changed the load point on the bolt, we changed the mount axsis, we changed out the lower tripod. Why is it that we did this? To fix the problems that come with the stock mount and tripod. Is that biased, nope it simple fact that the factory design was garbage and continuing to build around it is foolish.

I understand stress and heat fatigue. The hardware we choice was picked with that in mind. As for the mount itself, we have changed everything including the tripod. I'm wondering if you have our final product mixed up with someone else.
Here are pictures to our mount being offered on a GP with Dark Star.
http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...5-shipped.html

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by medieval I understand stress and heat fatigue. The hardware we choice was picked with that in mind. As for the mount itself, we have changed everything including the tripod. I'm wondering if you have our final product mixed up with someone else. Here are pictures to our mount being offered on a GP with Dark Star. http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...5-shipped.html

Sorry I was told that the mount was not coming with the tri-pod, thank you for the clarification.

[darkstarmotorsports]

I just want to say thanks to both Medieval and PTP, this is great infomation you guys are posting!

[Betelgeuse]

^ Agreed! I'm just glad we now have a solution(s) to this tranny mount problem. I'm sure they'll both be great products.

Just to add to the points made above:

From my observation, since Mazda changed the bolt size from 8 to 10, it seemed the weak point moved from the bolt to the tri-pod itself. I've seen at least 3 or more broken completely. That's what scary about the oem mount and why I want it out of my car asap.

[phillyb]

great information guys. i'm really liking that there are vendors in here playing nice. i'm proud of you guys.
god, that sounded condescending.
betel, you can delete your own posts by clicking on edit and then delete

[fred114]

I was reading this thread with a lot of interest since I thought my next mod would be a rear engine mount. Hopefully in early January. But, and this is my cluelessness coming out, I am totally confused on the mounts. How many are there? 3 engine and a trans mount? or just 3 mounts? Is the trans mount a better next mod over the rear engine mod? Maybe I will be able to both, but in case I can't, what in your opinions is the best route to take.

Thanks

[phillyb]

3 mounts...
rear motor mount (which actually is the tranny, but whatever)
passenger side motor mount
driver's side tranny mount under the battery
start with the rear mm

[Betelgeuse]

Originally Posted by fred114 I was reading this thread with a lot of interest since I thought my next mod would be a rear engine mount. Hopefully in early January. But, and this is my cluelessness coming out, I am totally confused on the mounts. How many are there? 3 engine and a trans mount? or just 3 mounts? Is the trans mount a better next mod over the rear engine mod? Maybe I will be able to both, but in case I can't, what in your opinions is the best route to take. Thanks

There are 3 mounts - rear/passenger/tranny. The tranny (driver's side) is the trouble mount that some people have been breaking - expensive to fix all the resulting damage. All 3 mounts should be replaced imo, but most people start with the rear mount as it tends to dampen a lot of the back and forth movement.


Just saw phillyb's post.

[mrjoshyman]

finally we have vendors making driver side and passenger transmission mounts...

the problem is i don't know which one to get?!?! everyone is convinced they've got the best designs...we need some 3rd party non-biased testing. i just hope that we get some more reviews on here (so it will be easier to decide which mount to buy) before my engine drops out haha

[phillyb]

Originally Posted by mrjoshyman finally we have vendors making driver side and passenger transmission mounts... the problem is i don't know which one to get?!?! everyone is convinced they've got the best designs...we need some 3rd party non-biased testing. i just hope that we get some more reviews on here (so it will be easier to decide which mount to buy) before my engine drops out haha

get all three mounts.
the ptp tranny mount is a great design and moves the problem bolt to a whole new location. mine is still in the mail, so idk how it actually is.
trz tranny mount is nothing but a plate that goes on top of the actual mount and does nothing for the actual bolt (if understand correctly)
darkstar (medieval) mount needs to be spoken for by someone else, i'm not too sure.

i just installed my passenger side mount from darkstar and it's a nice piece. much stronger than stock and i didn't notice any new noises or anything.
ptp makes a fix for the pass side now, but is coming out with a passenger mount.
i don't know who else makes a pass mount.

as for the rear mount, there are TONS of options. cpe, trz, awr, streetunit, corksport inserts, medieval...there are probably others as well.
i have the trz and fucking love it. there are definitely vibes that come along with it. the cpe has been getting great reviews and is one hell of a beefy mount. and the su mount is good and also doesn't vibe as much as the others (from what i understand)

[darkstarmotorsports]

Originally Posted by phillyb get all three mounts. the ptp tranny mount is a great design and moves the problem bolt to a whole new location. mine is still in the mail, so idk how it actually is. trz tranny mount is nothing but a plate that goes on top of the actual mount and does nothing for the actual bolt (if understand correctly) darkstar (medieval) mount needs to be spoken for by someone else, i'm not too sure. i just installed my passenger side mount from darkstar and it's a nice piece. much stronger than stock and i didn't notice any new noises or anything. ptp makes a fix for the pass side now, but is coming out with a passenger mount. i don't know who else makes a pass mount. as for the rear mount, there are TONS of options. cpe, trz, awr, streetunit, corksport inserts, medieval...there are probably others as well. i have the trz and fucking love it. there are definitely vibes that come along with it. the cpe has been getting great reviews and is one hell of a beefy mount. and the su mount is good and also doesn't vibe as much as the others (from what i understand)

Medieval is releasing their passenger side mount next week.

[phillyb]

everywhere i have typed medieval regarding the pass side mount, please read: top speed

[mrjoshyman]

Originally Posted by phillyb get all three mounts. the ptp tranny mount is a great design and moves the problem bolt to a whole new location. mine is still in the mail, so idk how it actually is. trz tranny mount is nothing but a plate that goes on top of the actual mount and does nothing for the actual bolt (if understand correctly) darkstar (medieval) mount needs to be spoken for by someone else, i'm not too sure. i just installed my passenger side mount from darkstar and it's a nice piece. much stronger than stock and i didn't notice any new noises or anything. ptp makes a fix for the pass side now, but is coming out with a passenger mount. i don't know who else makes a pass mount. as for the rear mount, there are TONS of options. cpe, trz, awr, streetunit, corksport inserts, medieval...there are probably others as well. i have the trz and fucking love it. there are definitely vibes that come along with it. the cpe has been getting great reviews and is one hell of a beefy mount. and the su mount is good and also doesn't vibe as much as the others (from what i understand)

,

as for driver side transmission mount, the reviews for the TRZ piece are nothing but praise...sure it doesn't relocate the bolt location but perhaps the other aspects of the design make so that the bolt is no longer the weak piece? -- im just talking here idk if this is in fact true... the ptp mount looks pretty good although there just aren't enough reviews out...

as for the passenger side mounts...the ptp unit isn't out yet, right?

and yea rear mounts there are tons of although some of the mounts have had issues..I know some people have noticed the urethane crack on the street unit ones...ive got a SU reae mm myself -- not cracked though, probably gonna switch to the TRZ poly...i like the 1 piece design and I can handle a little bit more vibes...

[TRU-BOOST]

The TRZ is not just a plate that does not replace the mount. Thenplate is infact the mount. What TRZ didnt replace was the mounting bracket that is only a problem with loos sloppy mounts. Because of popular demand you willbe able to add a strengthened version of this piece if you feel you need it. I seem to be the only one who launches on slicks with a 2 step and my moun seems just fine. You can sit in here and read through pages of making claims about bolt placement and strength, but the fact is there no no proof to support any of it. And i am not hating on their design, i just dont think any of it matters one you solidify the mount. There are over a dozen cars running around withTRZ mounts now and there has yet to be a complaint. I stand by my decision that a passenger side mount is 100% worthless though.

[Ferdball]

Originally Posted by ptperformance I will be more then happy to send one of our mounts for the testing. I would like to see cycle testing as well to confirm the bolts cycle life. I have to ask what happens when the tripod gives out before the bolt... then what. Last thing I wanted to offer out there. If the bolt is not the problem... then why are so many breaking at the bolt and why did Mazda have a recall on them and the mount? I am sorry but I think that Mazda is far from being "biased" on what the problem is.

Originally Posted by medieval I have no issue with that. I'll let you know next week and have you send over your mount. As for the bolt Mazda uses and the one we use, 2 different things ( just like your bolt choice). If you look at your mount and mine, they are not far off on design.

Originally Posted by medieval I understand stress and heat fatigue. The hardware we choice was picked with that in mind. As for the mount itself, we have changed everything including the tripod. I'm wondering if you have our final product mixed up with someone else. Here are pictures to our mount being offered on a GP with Dark Star. http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...5-shipped.html

Lots of good info here and its good to see manufacturers playing nice. Kudos to both.

I do have the Medieval mount installed and I will say that NVH might be an issue. Like I said in the GB thread, I can tell if the clutch is engaged or disengaged when in neutral. If the axis orientation of the bolt can really help with this and with wheelhop, then the PTP mount has the advantage. Otherwise, Medieval has the cost advantage.

With either, if the motor doesn't drop, then both are winners.

[phillyb]

Originally Posted by TRU-BOOST The TRZ is not just a plate that does not replace the mount. Thenplate is infact the mount. What TRZ didnt replace was the mounting bracket that is only a problem with loos sloppy mounts. Because of popular demand you willbe able to add a strengthened version of this piece if you feel you need it. I seem to be the only one who launches on slicks with a 2 step and my moun seems just fine. You can sit in here and read through pages of making claims about bolt placement and strength, but the fact is there no no proof to support any of it. And i am not hating on their design, i just dont think any of it matters one you solidify the mount. There are over a dozen cars running around withTRZ mounts now and there has yet to be a complaint. I stand by my decision that a passenger side mount is 100% worthless though.

this is good to know. it just looks like the plate from pg's website



there are three pieces to the stock mount, it appears that trz is only changing one piece.
OR, does the trz replace both of the top pieces?

there pieces included in stock mount are...the plate, then the mount, then the bracket. the bolt holds the mount to the bracket. again, does the trz replace both of the black pieces on the stock mount?

[badams118]

Originally Posted by phillyb there are three pieces to the stock mount, it appears that trz is only changing one piece. OR, does the trz replace both of the top pieces? there pieces included in stock mount are...the plate, then the mount, then the bracket. the bolt holds the mount to the bracket. again, does the trz replace both of the black pieces on the stock mount?

The TRZ replaces ONE of THREE pieces. It replaces the piece with the actual rubber mount that the bolt goes through. It does not replace the top piece that the batter bolts to. It does not replace the gray tripod that the bolt screws into.

[phillyb]

thank you

[TRU-BOOST]

The part the battery bolts to is really not part of the mount. That piece gets reused with the TRZ. That piee has no performance benefit what so ever. Ib only purpose it to give the battey tray something to mount to. The trz mount only addresses the actual problem..... The mount. Until i see a motor fall out with their mount i will continue to tell you that the other manufacturers are just making things up and calling it fact.
You can try to reinvent the wheel but the fact is its wasted time.

[yayogt666]

Hey all,, just installed PT drivers side mount and pass fix.. install was fairly painless
but car now has moderate vibes/ gear noise, might be too much for sum, especially at idle with clutch out . definately helped to limit wheelhop though. FYI I have the corksport inserts in rear mount also. overall the pt mount is pretty good quality and fit well. complaints in my anal OCD way would be it looked like a 3rd grader welded it, and the Batt tray required a shim (not included) under the rear bolt to level it back up..
maybe PT can address these issues in future design
thanx, B

[Betelgeuse]

^According to ptp it takes some time (~1500miles) for the vibes to settle in so they should decrease over time. I have only the darkstar pass and medieval rear and I get gear noise. I'm not sure (aside from soft mounts) there's a way to get rid of that. I'm already used to it though.

I currently have my ptp trans mount pieces sitting in front of me and they seem like very strong pieces. The welds are more about function over looks. They are a little rough but they seem well done which is all that matters. Can't wait to install them next weekend.