My motor also blew today.

[tburton101]

Well my motor blew today. Wasn't driving it hard or anything. Shifted 3rd to 4th at about 3500 and it went on me. Towed to my friends house. I'll be tearing it all apart puting back to stock to hopefully get warranty. Look for the forsale section ill have all my parts for sale since im done with this car..

[RedBliss]

wtf! sorry to hear this! fuck man i think imma be done wit this car too..this is just gettin way outta control

[starscream]

sowwie to hear mang... fucken gay shit... mines staying stock for sure now. gonna call Mazda Canada and see what they say in general about these motors and them blowing up. I dont think I'll get far, but I am going to see what I can get out of them.

Also do you konw what cylinder you broke (if you did that is break a rod...)....

[tburton101]

Not to sure. I just got the car to my buddys house and in his garage. Starting to strip down tomorrow.

[Dino V]

sorry to hear.

[tburton101]

Yeah. It was pretty upsetting lol. Considering im now broke dropping all this money in this car. I hope i can get under warranty.

[ms3077]

Wow, you're going to have a hell of a time removing all those mods...
Sorry this had to happen to you man
Seems these motors are ticking time bombs.. My was making this strange clicking sound I never heard before so I'm going to check it out and drive around a bit. Hopefully its not my motor about to go boom.

[evo2ms3]

Sorry to hear. How many miles were on the car? What map, and how much boost and what were your AFRs?

[Speedn3]

this sucks dead monkey nuts.....

06-09 Mazda Speed 3 6 CX7 2.3L Turbo Engine Motor 4K:eBay Motors (item 250494987376 end time Oct-07-09 10:57:57 PDT)

good luck!

[Lex]

I am sorry for your loss. You recently mentioned that you were messing around with an MBC and the AP at the same time. What happened with that? How was your car running now? Still overboosting?

Think if there is anything that more or less recently could have led to some damage.

[Darksun280]

Sorry man hope you get warrantied

[fjames]

What is the fucking deal with shifting? This seems to be the highest correlation - not PT, but shifting at PT. Seems to fit with PT-P's hydrolock theory, as does the weird number of bent rods with good piston tops.

No one has said it, but Cobb's ots throttle mapping is tailor made to induce such a thing.

[subparpunk03]

Originally Posted by fjames No one has said it, but Cobb's ots throttle mapping is tailor made to induce such a thing.

Please elaborate?

[glocK23]

Originally Posted by subparpunk03 Please elaborate?

That more and more Cobb AP Tuned engines are achieving massive engine failures.

From my observation.

[fjames]

My personal pet peeve. Compare stock DBW with Cobb's. Compare stock TRL (the global, not gear one) with Cobb's. Generally you could say that the stock tuning theory is to have aggressive TRL with mellow DBW - the load is there if you ask for it, but the conservative DBW makes it hard to ask. You could probably reverse it and arrive at the same point. A nice logical blend in other words.

But Cobb kept the aggressive TRL, added to it up top, then made the DBW aggressive as well. So, when you ask for a little you get a lot. Through the midrange (where a lot of people would be when shifting) there's 2-3 times more throttle DC on Cobb's mapping.

Example: 1.25 load @3K - stock=22.x TDC and Cobb=55% TDC. Mine is 32.x as a reference.

Of course it's all exacerbated by the quick spool stock turbo.

So it fits into his theory of a slug of oil, having pooled in the IM, breaking loose with a sudden hit of boost.

[madvillain]

you've got to be kidding me, another one?

[MS3Zoom24]

not that we dont know allready but i have been aware that like mostly all of the blown motors had a DP, just adding to the theories of everything, by no means am i a engineer, but it is a common thread regarding "boom"

with regards to james, i just noticed what you meant about the DBW and am now in the process of making a new make appropriately named the ANTi-Boom map, some may call it stock but after reading LEx's post about the ungodly amount of torque we get at 3krpm compared to other cars of high performance, im looking to make a new map that is essentially creating a little turbo lag and trying to displace the torque at a higher rpm. Also took away all of the OTS DBW from 1.31 below across the rpm range and put it to stock well look for yourself

0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
1.50	1.00	1.00	1.00	1.00	1.00	1.00	1.00	1.00	1.00	1.00	1.00	1.00	2.00	2.00
1.70	1.50	1.50	1.50	1.80	2.00	2.00	2.00	2.00	2.00	2.00	2.00	2.00	3.50	3.50
1.90	2.50	2.60	2.60	2.90	3.30	3.00	2.60	3.00	3.00	3.00	4.00	4.00	5.00	5.00
2.10	3.50	4.40	4.40	4.60	4.90	4.60	4.50	3.90	4.50	4.50	5.50	6.00	7.00	5.80
2.30	4.00	5.00	5.70	6.10	6.50	6.40	6.20	6.00	6.70	7.00	7.00	7.60	8.10	7.70
2.50	4.50	5.50	7.30	7.80	8.20	7.80	7.60	7.60	8.20	8.40	8.90	9.90	9.60	9.60
2.70	5.00	6.80	9.50	9.70	9.90	9.80	9.20	9.20	10.00	10.10	10.40	11.40	11.20	10.30
2.90	5.50	8.20	10.90	11.30	11.70	11.00	10.70	10.50	11.40	11.70	12.00	12.20	12.50	12.20
3.10	6.00	10.00	12.60	12.80	13.10	12.50	12.30	11.80	12.20	12.60	13.10	13.80	13.80	14.10
5.30	7.20	11.70	14.20	14.50	14.80	13.80	13.20	12.80	13.30	14.50	14.40	14.70	14.90	16.70
7.40	9.40	13.60	15.90	16.10	16.40	15.50	14.40	13.60	14.50	15.30	15.50	16.00	15.80	19.30
18.00	11.10	16.10	17.90	17.90	17.90	16.50	15.30	14.70	15.60	16.00	16.50	17.80	19.50	22.50
60.00	22.00	18.60	19.00	18.70	18.30	17.10	16.10	15.80	16.90	17.30	18.20	19.50	21.50	24.10
60.00	60.00	20.30	20.50	20.00	19.50	17.80	16.90	16.50	17.70	18.60	19.70	21.10	22.00	27.00
60.00	60.00	23.80	22.00	21.30	20.60	18.10	17.70	17.50	18.40	20.30	21.20	22.80	24.40	27.00
60.00	60.00	35.60	24.50	23.30	22.00	19.00	19.00	19.10	20.10	22.20	23.30	27.52	27.00	27.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	26.60	24.70	22.80	19.70	20.00	20.40	21.70	23.30	24.70	32.24	29.90	27.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	32.00	27.80	23.60	20.00	21.10	22.30	23.60	25.10	27.20	36.96	29.90	27.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	50.00	30.80	24.00	21.50	23.30	24.50	26.00	28.20	30.90	41.68	29.90	27.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	80.00	35.30	24.90	22.70	25.60	28.00	28.90	31.30	37.00	53.30	29.90	27.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	80.00	39.80	25.20	25.30	31.50	32.70	41.67	43.47	45.20	55.50	48.50	27.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	80.00	45.00	43.47	43.53	47.67	48.47	54.45	55.65	48.70	55.84	48.50	27.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	80.00	50.00	61.73	61.77	63.83	64.23	67.22	67.82	51.50	60.56	48.50	27.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	61.20	65.28	48.50	27.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	75.00	70.00	48.50	27.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	75.00	70.00	48.50	27.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	75.00	70.00	48.50	27.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	75.00	70.00	48.50	27.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	75.00	70.00	48.50	27.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	75.00	70.00	48.50	27.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	75.00	70.00	48.50	27.00
60.00	60.00	70.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	80.00	75.00	70.00	48.50	27.00

Currently i see peak wtq at 3700 according to the AP and peak whp at 5700rpm.

[tburton101]

No the mbc and cobb ap didnt go together mbc came right off next day been running the way it been running without mbc just went to track friday ran great. Next day oil levels fine everything good kaboom :-/

[DaleNixon]

I guess bad shit always comes in threes.

[2007speed3]

Fuck that, whos next^^

[flyrevs2]

Originally Posted by fjames My personal pet peeve. Compare stock DBW with Cobb's. Compare stock TRL (the global, not gear one) with Cobb's. Generally you could say that the stock tuning theory is to have aggressive TRL with mellow DBW - the load is there if you ask for it, but the conservative DBW makes it hard to ask. You could probably reverse it and arrive at the same point. A nice logical blend in other words. But Cobb kept the aggressive TRL, added to it up top, then made the DBW aggressive as well. So, when you ask for a little you get a lot. Through the midrange (where a lot of people would be when shifting) there's 2-3 times more throttle DC on Cobb's mapping. Example: 1.25 load @3K - stock=22.x TDC and Cobb=55% TDC. Mine is 32.x as a reference. Of course it's all exacerbated by the quick spool stock turbo. So it fits into his theory of a slug of oil, having pooled in the IM, breaking loose with a sudden hit of boost.

So are you sayin that a map with Dreads throttle mod would be WORSE than the stock map because the power comes on smoother rather than suddenly ?? Worse in the sense that it would be easier to go boom.
I can't believe how many motors are popping lately - unreal.

[acidbbg]

Not really a surprise here.

I noticed the same thing happen in the previous years.

Every time the weather goes cold..more mazdaspeed3 & 6 motors go boom.
First to go are usually those that are full bolted.

Boost goes up when weather gets cold.
Also, as mentioned a/f tends to go leaner due to the denser air.
And has Hal mentioned, the ecu adv timing during these cold conditions.
This equals more power and allot more tq at low rpms.

I would recommend people start figuring out a way to make peak boost at a later rpm.
AKA making peak tq around 4k instead of 3k rpms.

[Dash08]

Sucks man. Sorry to hear. Now your part of the club. I'm on my third fucking engine!

My only mods now are SRI and RP, that's it. New motor running good though.

[djuosnteisn]

I'm getting tired of subbing to all these threads of fail. I'm probably one of the bigger advocates of how strong our bottom ends are, purely based on the lack of wot blows. But to be honest, I'm highly allergic to crow, and a built motor is looking more and more like the right thing to do before it's too late.



Sigh.

[flyrevs2]

Originally Posted by Dash08 Sucks man. Sorry to hear. Now your part of the club. I'm on my third fucking engine! My only mods now are SRI and RP, that's it. New motor running good though.

3rd engine ????? wow that's crazy. were they covered under warrantee ?

[FantasmoNegro]

Originally Posted by MS3Zoom24 not that we dont know allready but i have been aware that like mostly all of the blown motors had a DP, just adding to the theories of everything, by no means am i a engineer, but it is a common thread regarding "boom" with regards to james, i just noticed what you meant about the DBW and am now in the process of making a new make appropriately named the ANTi-Boom map, some may call it stock but after reading LEx's post about the ungodly amount of torque we get at 3krpm compared to other cars of high performance, im looking to make a new map that is essentially creating a little turbo lag and trying to displace the torque at a higher rpm. Also took away all of the OTS DBW from 1.31 below across the rpm range and put it to stock well look for yourself 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 1.50 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 2.00 2.00 1.70 1.50 1.50 1.50 1.80 2.00 2.00 2.00 2.00 2.00 2.00 2.00 2.00 3.50 3.50 1.90 2.50 2.60 2.60 2.90 3.30 3.00 2.60 3.00 3.00 3.00 4.00 4.00 5.00 5.00 2.10 3.50 4.40 4.40 4.60 4.90 4.60 4.50 3.90 4.50 4.50 5.50 6.00 7.00 5.80 2.30 4.00 5.00 5.70 6.10 6.50 6.40 6.20 6.00 6.70 7.00 7.00 7.60 8.10 7.70 2.50 4.50 5.50 7.30 7.80 8.20 7.80 7.60 7.60 8.20 8.40 8.90 9.90 9.60 9.60 2.70 5.00 6.80 9.50 9.70 9.90 9.80 9.20 9.20 10.00 10.10 10.40 11.40 11.20 10.30 2.90 5.50 8.20 10.90 11.30 11.70 11.00 10.70 10.50 11.40 11.70 12.00 12.20 12.50 12.20 3.10 6.00 10.00 12.60 12.80 13.10 12.50 12.30 11.80 12.20 12.60 13.10 13.80 13.80 14.10 5.30 7.20 11.70 14.20 14.50 14.80 13.80 13.20 12.80 13.30 14.50 14.40 14.70 14.90 16.70 7.40 9.40 13.60 15.90 16.10 16.40 15.50 14.40 13.60 14.50 15.30 15.50 16.00 15.80 19.30 18.00 11.10 16.10 17.90 17.90 17.90 16.50 15.30 14.70 15.60 16.00 16.50 17.80 19.50 22.50 60.00 22.00 18.60 19.00 18.70 18.30 17.10 16.10 15.80 16.90 17.30 18.20 19.50 21.50 24.10 60.00 60.00 20.30 20.50 20.00 19.50 17.80 16.90 16.50 17.70 18.60 19.70 21.10 22.00 27.00 60.00 60.00 23.80 22.00 21.30 20.60 18.10 17.70 17.50 18.40 20.30 21.20 22.80 24.40 27.00 60.00 60.00 35.60 24.50 23.30 22.00 19.00 19.00 19.10 20.10 22.20 23.30 27.52 27.00 27.00 60.00 60.00 70.00 26.60 24.70 22.80 19.70 20.00 20.40 21.70 23.30 24.70 32.24 29.90 27.00 60.00 60.00 70.00 32.00 27.80 23.60 20.00 21.10 22.30 23.60 25.10 27.20 36.96 29.90 27.00 60.00 60.00 70.00 50.00 30.80 24.00 21.50 23.30 24.50 26.00 28.20 30.90 41.68 29.90 27.00 60.00 60.00 70.00 80.00 35.30 24.90 22.70 25.60 28.00 28.90 31.30 37.00 53.30 29.90 27.00 60.00 60.00 70.00 80.00 39.80 25.20 25.30 31.50 32.70 41.67 43.47 45.20 55.50 48.50 27.00 60.00 60.00 70.00 80.00 45.00 43.47 43.53 47.67 48.47 54.45 55.65 48.70 55.84 48.50 27.00 60.00 60.00 70.00 80.00 50.00 61.73 61.77 63.83 64.23 67.22 67.82 51.50 60.56 48.50 27.00 60.00 60.00 70.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 61.20 65.28 48.50 27.00 60.00 60.00 70.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 75.00 70.00 48.50 27.00 60.00 60.00 70.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 75.00 70.00 48.50 27.00 60.00 60.00 70.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 75.00 70.00 48.50 27.00 60.00 60.00 70.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 75.00 70.00 48.50 27.00 60.00 60.00 70.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 75.00 70.00 48.50 27.00 60.00 60.00 70.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 75.00 70.00 48.50 27.00 60.00 60.00 70.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 75.00 70.00 48.50 27.00 60.00 60.00 70.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 80.00 75.00 70.00 48.50 27.00 Currently i see peak wtq at 3700 according to the AP and peak whp at 5700rpm.

I also beleive FMICs are a big part of the problem too.

[rodrigo]

shiftinging into the next gear by nature causes an instant increase load change and could in theory expose any weaknesses.

example: it's well known my car is a pos.... I can induce the highest KR read when powershifting from 3rd into 4th ...can go as high as 7.1 and stay there until about 5800 rpm and then it will drop down to zero .

so it isnt surprising that u guys tuning it to the edge or not.... are experiencing catastrophes at the beginning of a shifted into gear.

Originally Posted by fjames What is the fucking deal with shifting? This seems to be the highest correlation - not PT, but shifting at PT. Seems to fit with PT-P's hydrolock theory, as does the weird number of bent rods with good piston tops. No one has said it, but Cobb's ots throttle mapping is tailor made to induce such a thing.

[Lex]

Lenny it only drops to 0 because past 5700 RPM the car no longer listens to the knock sensor because the engine itself is too noisy.

[zoom1&zoom2]

Originally Posted by glocK23 That more and more Cobb AP Tuned engines are achieving massive engine failures. From my observation.

this is exactly why I do not have a AP.

[rodrigo]

yeah i knew that, but no i speak of KR that u dont need a dh to read (my shit will sound like its got drummers inside the engine)..... the logs I make even show it. my point is that at the beginning of any gear load is always highest for that particular gear. think of it as a strongman competition when they do the truck pulls, .... load is highest at the very moment of them trying to get the truck moving because the re is no momentum. well in gears there is momentum but 2 things, the split second that u clutch it load drops to zero and the gear before had by size less load, these 2 reasons are why entering the next gear is always the highest inducer of knock/load.

but pretty sad to hear all these stories.

one thing that is worth mentioning..... both SLS and Tburton had high trapping ms3's , obviously the stronger cars run a higher risk , which might explain also why my pos will not blow no matter how much i beat it.

like its said before, cooler temps are coming and u guys that have the faster ms3 s u best re think your strategy . i think the best way to mod this car is to start from the shortblock....anything else is a coin toss

Originally Posted by Lex Lenny it only drops to 0 because past 5700 RPM the car no longer listens to the knock sensor because the engine itself is too noisy.

[Blink]

Sucks man, i got my car back about a month ago now, have almost 3k miles on the new engine. Spent alot of time breaking it in as best i could.

If you strip down to complete stock and have service records, oil change receipts, etc, mazda should honor your warranty. At no point should you ever admit to have an engine mod on it. A CBE is about all you can get away with.

Expect to wait about a month as they have a long troubleshooting process. Only took 3 days to intall my new engine but waited 25 days for them to decide to replace it.

On the plus side my new engine is running really good. The car is <3

[smakdown61]

We all noticed the colder air causes more shit to end up in our occ's in the winter....I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

[ms3077]

Lenny127 you can thank the 91OCT for you not blowing lol, you're not producing enough raw horse power like us dudes on the East coast with 93OCT. The reason you aren’t trapping higher is probably due to your weight (350lbs, no offense), track conditions, temps and the fact this car just plain sucks from a stop. Just by me (140lbs) driving your car could yield +2mph on the trap, add in better conditions and 106-108 isn’t completely out of the picture. I doubt your car is a turd.

I think most of us can agree that switching out the DP seems to greatly increase the likelihood of one blowing. The stats probably show something like 80-90% of engines that blow have an after market dp

[tburton101]

yep well got up earlie starting to strip. Got fmic off,e-Cut off,Cp-e gauge pod, and cobb ap. I found one hole so far it at the bottom of the oil pan. Still not finished got alot to do to make back to stock and look like i never touched it.All my parts will be for sale soon guys. Im buying a play toy so i dont ruin a car i bought its already bad enough with blown motor hehe.

this is why i run 24psi. its not boosting that blows motors

[mr_mazda329]

damn burt.. sorry for your loss. DP's FTL

[fjames]

Originally Posted by flyrevs2 So are you sayin that a map with Dreads throttle mod would be WORSE than the stock map because the power comes on smoother rather than suddenly ?? Worse in the sense that it would be easier to go boom. I can't believe how many motors are popping lately - unreal.

No, not at all. I'm basically saying that I follow factory theory, or try to, when tuning. I try to keep the same curve shape but change the values. So the factory theory is to control torque with the throttle and I use that (DBW) to control the flow of power. If you keep the ots DBW and mellow out TRL, you're going exactly opposite the factory tuning theory. That's important to me, because there's a shit ton of logic in the ecu we don't have access to, so I want to keep the little fucker happy by giving it what it expects to see.

My own TRL is pretty mellow in the midrange, but I don't think it matters much. Below WG pressure it doesn't (shouldn't) matter much what you do, unless the ecu cuts torque with the throttle (I've seen it do that I think in logs.) What I mostly did with TRL was try to match it up with Boost Targets so it wouldn't matter where the ecu was looking because no one knows. I wanted the transition from BT to TRL to be nice and smooth (just me being anal.) Oh, I actually have values in my BT table, so if you don't change the ots BT table it wouldn't matter.

Originally Posted by Lenny127 shiftinging into the next gear by nature causes an instant increase load change and could in theory expose any weaknesses. example: it's well known my car is a pos.... I can induce the highest KR read when powershifting from 3rd into 4th ...can go as high as 7.1 and stay there until about 5800 rpm and then it will drop down to zero . so it isnt surprising that u guys tuning it to the edge or not.... are experiencing catastrophes at the beginning of a shifted into gear.

Sure, but these seem to all be part throttle shifts. When most guys shift a car like this they tend to hit it a little. But a little on the ots maps is really a lot is my point.

I love your car btw. Every time I see a little KR I just think of you and say nah, fuck it. Really, your stuff is good evidence that the way this car shows KR isn't something to panic about. The other night I was doing a logging run and made it to about 4700 in 6th. Looking at logs later, I got 3.x KR starting at 5K in 5th. It worked down to zero before I shifted, ran about 11.2 AFR (half a point rich from target or so) and all was well.

[boosted3]

yea on my cx-7 motor i picked up i get alot of knock the highest i saw was 7.4 lol.its annoying.Sorry about ur motor..

[Haltech]

100% of the cars that blew up also had a SRI or MSCAI.. So, you guys better remove that too!

I mean seriously, you guys are blaming downpipes and FMIC's now? Dial down the fuckin boost in colder weather or butcher the timing.

[AFcadet]

I agree...its not about mods...I think its about tuning.

I know when i get my new motor Im going to be taking out my Meth...running 11 AFR...and a peak of 17 psi....instead of 21