Mz3 & MS3 Half-breed
 

No solicitation for parts please! I'll make it known when I start selling parts again.

I've started a project to install a '07 MS3 drivetrain into my '05 Mz3 SP23 hatch. It started with the curse of "I took my CB MS3 to the track and look what happened" that allowed me to end up with a slightly used MS3 Sport as a donor car.

http://www.digitalguy.net/mazda/dscf3603_small.jpg
http://www.digitalguy.net/mazda/dscf3599_small.jpg

Picked up the car last fall, got it paid off this winter, and now have enough money to pick up the FMIC (hurry up Cobb!) and a few other mods to complete this project. The end result will be a '05/'07 Mazdaspeed SP23 Half-breed with the MS3 drivetrain, brakes, suspension (possibly coilovers in the future) and as much of the extra bracing as possible. Eventually I may also install parts of the MS3 interior, like the seats and climate control, but I currently have the brown leather interior unique to the SP23, so I won't be parting with that quickly.

I was pretty much a noob to doing this type of work to a car (other then fluids, belts, and brakes) before starting this. Thankfully, with the help of friends, the local Mazda club, and forums like this, I've managed to pull the engine from the donor car and expect to overcome any issues along the way.

http://photos-h.ak.facebook.com/phot...07159_5549.jpg
http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/phot...07165_8297.jpg

A couple issues I've noticed to this point.

One is the fuel lines are routed slightly different in the MS3 vs. the SP23, looks like they will be in the way of the turbo. I won't be looking for a solution to this till I have the engine out of the SP23 and can do a complete comparison of both engine bays and the differences (I have not been able to confirm the claims that changes have been made to the firewall in the MS3, other then extra heat shields).

I noticed that the wiring harness from the engine to the fuse box on the MRZ engine has at least one extra wire, and more possibly. The fuse box in the MS3 was damaged, so this is something I will have to spend some time on to solve.

The power steering system is quite different. My 'O5 SP23 has an electric PS pump, where the MS3 has a belt driven one.
Couple questions here; is this a difference between the MS3 and the Mz3 (ie '07 Mz3 has electric and '07 MS3 has belt) or is it a difference between model years (ie either in '06 or '07 they switched from electric to belt)?
Was this change made for any reason other then an economic reasons?

At this point I'm planning on using the electric pump for a couple reasons.
1. It puts less of a load on the engine
2. The electric fuel pump has 3 separate wiring harnesses going to it, so removing it without dealing with electrical or computer problems seems unlikely to me, but maybe I'm wrong here.

One of the local Mazda guys suggested I remove power steering completely. not really sure I want to do this, as I enjoy the way my Mazda feels and handles now, and I like those creature comforts like PS and A/C.

Thanks in advance to everyone for your help and advice.

CBM Sport's are prone to FAIL!

Sounds like an awesome undertaking. Keep us posted on how things come along.

That was me suggesting the removal of the power steering. Clean up the engine bay, and given that this is already a frankenstein, might as well make it as easy as possible.

I believe all MS3 are electric power steering... My 2008 is...why would the 2007 not be...?

Double check that...

this is badass, keep us posted

I should look at mine later. Prolly not today, but soon.

Looked a little more into it, seems its electric, but I never saw the pump, so that ones solved.

One step closer! How does the wiring look for the ECU? Plugs the same or are you going to have to rip out the MS3's wiring harness?

As far as the fuel lines are concerned, rip them all out of the sp23, and replace them with the ones from the ms3. Same with the in-tank fuel pump/bucket assembly. Reason being, the fuel system on the di motor needs to be fed at least 61psi of fuel pressure. It is very particular. The sp23's fuel pump won't be sufficient for that, and neither will the lines, I don't think.

Yea, thinking I will do that with the fuel lines, just pull the whole take and replace it.

ECU Should be pretty easy, the harnesses are nicely wrap with the engines, and really only 3 connections: 2 to the ECU, and one to the fuse box. I'll be swapping the ECU so the only real issues is what wires are different to, and within the fuse box. I have 2 different service manuals, one HTML based one for an '04 3 (very handy) and one in PDF format for an '07 MS3.

Now I did a search in the MS3 service manual for power steering and it came back with a ton of matches for an electric ps pump. I concluded that it was electric. But if it is electric, then someone explain theses pics to me.

http://photos-h.ak.facebook.com/phot...41159_9635.jpg
http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/phot...41160_9909.jpg

This is what I'm calling the power steering pump at this point, you can see the red fluid, this is where I disconnected my PS hoses from.

http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/phot...241163_825.jpg
http://photos-e.ak.facebook.com/phot...41164_1132.jpg

This is the electric steering pump and res. in the SP23

http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/phot...41165_1417.jpg
http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/phot...241161_251.jpg

And these are pics of that same location on MS 3. Completely different, also missing a bracket you can't see. So something is fishy here. More digging required

Update:
Over the weekend I got the 2.3 out of the SP23 along with the front suspension in both cars. Next I'm going to check part numbers on the in-tank fuel pumps, see if there is a difference and switch out the master brake cylinder, which looks a big bigger on the MS3.

Did some talk with a pretty smart guy at a dyno event we had this weekend (who showed up in a 850ci:684:) who had a few ideas on the power steering pump. We confirmed that an '07 Mz3 also had an electric PS pump and that both '07 and '08 MS3 run a belt driven one. He suspected the reason they may have used a belt driven one may be because of increased power consumption by DISI system.

So I'm thinking it's either that, or a cost savings option, as the MZR has ample power to run it, where it be more taxing on the NA motor. Either way, I will be running the electric pump, possible with an upgraded alternator. Anyone know where to find a 120 amp for the MS3?

Another Update (Here's what I've posted at my home site, mnmazda.com)

Update 5/19/08:
Both engines and both sets of front suspension are now up. Next is to figure out what, if anything is need in the fuel system, and to switch out the master cyclinder.


Update 5/23/08:
I've been working this week on the brake and electrical systems, pulling the main brake components and studying the electrical system. I have come to the conclution that my best bet, with what I know at this point, is to swap the entire electrical system. I have several reasons for this: I am unable to find a wiring diagram for the MFB (Main Fuse Block- engine bay) for either the 05 or 07. There are differences in the PJB (passenger Junction Box) between the 04 Euro Manual and the 07 Manual, but I'm unsure at this point if the 04 euro translates into my 05 us spec car. There are many more relays in the MFB of the 07 speed 3 vs a 07 n/a 3, and at this point, no way to comfirm if the n/a 3 is wired for those relays or not, and even less if it's in my 05. I also am working on the braking system. I started with the calipers. Figured I should do the master cylinder to make sure I don't have any issues. Well now the brake booster (what the MC is connected to) is twice as large, and the brake lines are different, and then the ABS is now a DSC which has twice the sensors.... So I'm at the point where I may as well just do it all. Lastly, I want the auto climate control as well, and good luck trying to make that work without the 07 wiring.

So all this leads to the conclution that my project has doubled in size this week. I'm not certain I will need to do this, but once I get into the MFBs wiring in both cars, I will have a clearer picture.


Update 6/7/08:
Wires, wires everywhere, but progress is being made. DSC system, brake booster, MC, and a few brake lines have been installed and wired in. Stillneed to install the combined sensor under the passengers seat. Tonight I've been disecting and mapping the MFB's relays and fuses. Once that is done, I'll need to make a few additions and alterations to the MFB and I should be set to install the engine electrically. Think I've decided to go with the MS3 power steering setup. The DISI fueling sytem and MS3 cooling fan place a large electrical load on the system. I also still need to change out clutch cables, somebrake lines, fuel tank and fuel lines before installing the engine. Lots more to do, but taking my time and trying to make sure its done right the first time. Reworking any of this would be a complete PITA


Update 6/23/08:
Fuse box is completed. Wired directly into the fuse box my HID indy fogs, my halos, an additional relay for future use (HID high beams?), along with the relays and fuses for the new fuel system, the upgraded radiator fan that the speed has, and dedicated power wires for the interior, one always on, the other activated by the main relay. Also removed the wiring for the power steering pump.

The cabin has also been mostly wired up, other then for my halo switch and the power wires I ran to the center concel. I've wired in and installed both the steering angle sensor and combined sensor for the DSC system. I've put the SAS on a switch, as I've read it can be disconnected to eliminate the toque limiter at certain steering angles (unsure if this is only works with Piasini flash, but I will soon find out). I've also wired in the DSC off button and wired in the larger power cable for the fuel pump along with the different connector that goes with it.

Now to the suspension. Completed the swap of the rear subframe while installing the Cobb RSB and springs, minus one mistreaded bolt that will need to be fixed. Also installed FSB and springs, and installed the front strut setup from the speed 3.

Fuel and brake lines have all been swaped along with A/C and power steering lines. Still need to button up the brake lines and double check that I have them connected all correctly.

What needs to be done. Fuel tank is in progress. Was a dumbass and forgot to install the stock MS3 exhaust (still in one piece), so I'm going to have to have a flange welded in, unless I decide to disassemble the rear end again to install it. Also will need to install the added bracing for the tunnel and some heat shielding inside the engine bay. After that, it's time to replace the engine.

dam great project keep it up :)

The SP23 has been imbued with the power of the DISI, behold:
http://www.digitalguy.net/jurgen/12.jpg

Very successful day yesterday. Heat shield was buttoned up and the engine was mounted. Connected most of the A/C, PS and coolant lines. Some repairs were made; the vacuum line for the BPV was J/B welded into place on the intake manifold, and the swirl valve control solinoid value was replaced.

We still need to fix up the connection to CDFP, as seen here.
http://www.digitalguy.net/jurgen/15.jpg

Much thanks to Young Roids and Aviateur for there time and help with this rebuild!

Will she be running soon? Could be...

Very cool man! Why bother with the stock MS3 exhaust though? Might as well do something custom to keep with the theme :)

nice, gonna be a fun car once you get it swapped..should be just like if not very close to a MS3

One hell of a sleeper. Did you have to make custom mounts, or did things actually line up?

Budget is tapped for now, but that's next on my list.

Everything lined up fine with the mounts.

Got the engine buttoned up today and the battery put in. Turned it on, and as I figured, I'm going to have to merry my keys to the new computer. Also, the ODB reader I'm using isn't communicating with the car. Doesn't appear to be any issues with the odb connector on the car and we tested the reader on another car without issue. I still have to put parts of the suspension and the brakes back on, so I got sometime to trouble shoot.

The odometer is linked to the ECU. So, you should get a reading once the PATS system verifies your keys are legit. They need to be programmed in pairs btw.

Yea, I've verifed that its detecting unregistered key ID numbers. Any idea if more keys can be registered via an ODB reader, or does it need to be done at the dealership? There is a mazda dealership about a 1/2 mile that is pretty much down hill, so pushing the car there is an option :)

I'm glad to see you're still going strong with this project. What are you using as a daily driver until FrankenSpeed is finished? Keep up the good work.

If you don't have 2 keys already correctly programmed, you'll have to take a trip to the dealership.

I have both the keys and the cylinder from the ms3, but I didn't swap that out, might give that a try tonight, but I don't want to have to change out the door lock as well.

Nope, Ford PATS only authorizes 2 keys, thats it. You need to get it done at the dealer unless you reflash the ecu without this programming done. I had my Ford ECC*5 reflashed in 2004 without the PATS to test some calibrations. I flashed it back with the PATS system re-enabled but i had to go back to the dealer to get it done. Costs me $113 to do it.

I got a POS '97 Grand Am. The only things that actually fully works on the car is the engine and tranny. I need a new beater badly.

I've got 3 keys registered with my Speed6 from the factory.
One Valet key, and two key cards, each with a removable key with a PATS (unless the changed the technology) transponder in each. All of them start the car.

BTW, nice project to take on! Good to see you having success!

Well, keys replaced. Next issue, com error between PCM and cluster, gonna recheck the wiring and try and work this out. Hope my PCM isn't a brick :-/

Com error? I have to assume, the pigtail connector is different on your reg 3 compared to the MS3? How many wires did you have to solder up there? I have a diagram if you need it.

It's all good, seems disconnecting everything and reconnecting did the trick!

She's ALIVE!!!

First Engine Start with no codes @ 5:30 pm cdt on 6/30/2008

Congrats bro! The hardest parts are behind you. Now, just get it buttoned up and snap some shots of that masterpeice!

Yahoooooooooooooooooo, that's great. That has got to be satisfying.

congrats! Your now a elite member of the engine swap club. Seriously, thats no easy feat you just accomplished :)

can you imagine this engine in a miata??? that would be awesome...

life gives you lemons you make lemonade. it will be funny to catch some MS3 owners sleeping

nice, take vids and pics

I love this project! I only wish that it was done in a sedan. That would truly complete the sleeper effect.

Congrats man!

Thanks for the support everyone. This was by no means a one man job. From the people who help me aquire the service manuals and wiring scimatics to my many friends that helped by slaved away for hours, I owe much thanks to all who helped make this happen.

I do have plans for the other block at some point in the future. I'd like to get it built and thinging of putting it in a miata, or, preferably, an elise. But that's a ways off.

Her some pics for yesterday:
http://www.digitalguy.net/jurgen/20.jpg
http://www.digitalguy.net/jurgen/22.jpg
http://www.digitalguy.net/jurgen/25.jpg

Had her out for awhile last night, so much fun...
More updates once I get my FMIC on.

cool!

Let's see some videos. Again congrats