MZR DISI Heat Management

[twenty5psi]

Sounds like it's just a surface tension reducer like Water Wetter, should be a ratio given on the bottle.

You can still run up to 50/50 with Water Wetter but it's most effective running it with pure water.

Pure water with Water Wetter, 180 degree T-stat, and the fan controller mod would be a nice way to beef up the cooling system for track guys.

[ms3blackmica]

I've been using purple ice for 4 years now with a 30/70 coolant/water mix during every flush and also see very cool temps.

I usually see 183-187 while cruising on the highway all day long fan off. No higher than 196 while driving around town. Only above 200 if sitting in traffic unless the fan comes on or I use A/C.

I should mention..I haz failz with an upgraded TMIC.

[El_Diablo]

Originally Posted by Mizzle My point being there are better places to get it from. If anything, you'd want to vent the hood by the windshield and create a belly pan so all the air coming in the grill shoots out the top. If not, black crinkle paint on the trans pan & oil pan has been proven to help dissipate heat.

Back by the windshield is a high pressure area so any "venting" back there would likely have less than desireable results, even with a belly pan.

[Voltwings]

I realize i could google this but i figure since we're on the subject i'll pick yalls brains.

I recently relocated a coolant hose (that annoying one touching the cold pipe), and refilled with water and coolant. I noticed my temps were getting pretty hot, so i went and saw my level was low... ok, go to open the cap to put more in and hear a hissing, AHH, i forgot to burp the system. Drive around, twist cap until "hiss" 2-3 more times to try to get all the air out, but then i got to thinking ... when water absorbs heat it turns to steam, am i just purging all my water out thinking its air? i know the boiling point of water is ~212*, and my temps arent hitting that, but maybe theres some partial evaporation going on?

I'd like to keep water in the system because of its superior heat rejection, but i'm having trouble burping the system at this point. Thanks.

[btstarcher]

I don't know, I keep burping my system and it always seems to either lose coolant somewhere or more air is coming to the surface in the reservoir. I idled for 3 hors and there were still bubbles coming to the surface, and after a quick drive and parking again I continued to see bubbles.

[Ziggo]

Its under pressure, which raises the boiling point of water. IIRC with a 15psi cap it's ~250*F

It basically acts like a safety for the car. If it gets too much heat, it will boil and blow off steam. So the coolant will just start to boil off, but won't actually get any hotter till there is no coolant in the block.

Zigatapatalka

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by Ziggo Its under pressure, which raises the boiling point of water. IIRC with a 15psi cap it's ~250*F It basically acts like a safety for the car. If it gets too much heat, it will boil and blow off steam. So the coolant will just start to boil off, but won't actually get any hotter till there is no coolant in the block. Zigatapatalka

So basically i am low and should still be adding some?

[btstarcher]

Hopefully.....if not there might be a leak, that's what I'm worried about.

[aggierandy]

Originally Posted by Voltwings I realize i could google this but i figure since we're on the subject i'll pick yalls brains. I recently relocated a coolant hose (that annoying one touching the cold pipe), and refilled with water and coolant. I noticed my temps were getting pretty hot, so i went and saw my level was low... ok, go to open the cap to put more in and hear a hissing, AHH, i forgot to burp the system. Drive around, twist cap until "hiss" 2-3 more times to try to get all the air out, but then i got to thinking ... when water absorbs heat it turns to steam, am i just purging all my water out thinking its air? i know the boiling point of water is ~212*, and my temps arent hitting that, but maybe theres some partial evaporation going on? I'd like to keep water in the system because of its superior heat rejection, but i'm having trouble burping the system at this point. Thanks.

Nah, you're fine. The boiling point of your coolant water mixture is probably 250ish

Plagiarized from internet.
"The pressure cap on a cooling system is the key to raising the boiling point of the 50/50 mix of antifreeze and distilled water. For every pound of pressure cap rating the boiling of point of the above mixture raises 3 degrees. If you had plain water in your cooling system with a 15 pound pressure cap the water would boil @ 257 degrees. If you had a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water the coolant would boil @ 265 degrees with a 15 pound cap. The boiling point would raise to 270 degrees if you had a 60% antifreeze mixture with a 15 pound cap. If you had a 70% mixture the boiling point would raise to 276 degrees."

To burp the system, just take the cap off and let the car run for a while until it heats up the thermostat opens. Once you stop seeing bubbles in the reservoir you're good.

There might be some micro areas that are able to boil but they should condense pretty quickly within the pressurized system.

[djuosnteisn]

I haven't had a chance to look really, just wondering if anyone in here knows - What's the thread / pitch for an oil sandwich plate on our motors? I'd like to try a themostatic sandwich plate for a remote cooler at some point:

http://97.74.32.155/files/thermos$.pdf

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn I haven't had a chance to look really, just wondering if anyone in here knows - What's the thread / pitch for an oil sandwich plate on our motors? I'd like to try a themostatic sandwich plate for a remote cooler at some point: http://97.74.32.155/files/thermos$.pdf

@Tomas; got the greddy one off Ebay that was for the Sr20 i believe.

[Todd98SE]

The regular sandwich plate that fits our engine is Greddy part# 12002801. The thermostatic sandwich plate is part# 12401126. It has the M20xP1.5 threads.

[djuosnteisn]

Muchos Gracias.

[Tomas]

Originally Posted by Todd98SE The regular sandwich plate that fits our engine is Greddy part# 12002801. The thermostatic sandwich plate is part# 12401126. It has the M20xP1.5 threads.

This is incorrect.
You need the 3/4x16 UNF. Just like the spin ons we use.

[Celestspeed3]

I used Motul Mocool, it's 500mL for 10L. I think I used about 375mL according to the factory spec on coolant capacity.
@Voltwings; If you are having trouble bleeding the coolant system I suggest you run the system and raise the coolant bottle so all 3 hoses are covered by whatever mix you are using, leave it like this for a few minutes until the motor is up to temp. Some people recommend turning the heater on to full blast as well while doing this. If you want to get more particular you can raise the front of the car on jack stands or do it on a driveway with the front of the car at a higher position then the rear to help force the air out. After that you should be good to go. A few nights around freezing I don't think it's enough to worry about, if you leave a water bottle in the car overnight and it freezes tats a good gauge as to whether or not you should be running antifreeze in the winter. I will be switching back to FL22 or whatever the Mazda mix is around October then back to water in May.

[Todd98SE]

Originally Posted by Tomas This is incorrect. You need the 3/4x16 UNF. Just like the spin ons we use.

Crap, sorry Tomas. I could have sworn it was the 20mm version. I have just removed the plate from my car yesterday. The 2 greddy adapters aren't labeled, I swore I had used the metric one. Good catch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by Tomas This is incorrect. You need the 3/4x16 UNF. Just like the spin ons we use.

Thanks for the correction Mr. Tomato.

I'm thinking of trying this Mocal plate out:
http://97.74.32.155/files/thermos$.pdf

SP1T has the right threads... but i'm not entirely sure how well it will fit. Most likely, the spin on dimensions are fairly standard in the industry... but who knows. $90 isn't bad for a thermostatic spin on oil cooler.

I'll post pics whenever i get it on.

[Voltwings]

My project for the day.

[Dano]

cooling the home depot bucket ?

[Celestspeed3]

You may loose efficiency with the fan by cutting the should open. If you are going to do that I would suggest removing the AC condenser or at the very least use aluminum tape and cover the sides as well as top and bottom of the condenser to force all of the air through the condenser and the rad.

Are you planning to add another fan on the other side?

[Voltwings]

One thing at a time. the plan of action is this, then switching to a higher concentration of water, then ducting so I can quantify each phase. I'm never in stop and go traffic, but with the 100+ degree temps we see here for quite a few months out of the year, my ECT's will still end up around 195 cruising. In the cooler parts of the year its around 183 cruising, so I'm looking to do what I can to help bring it down in the hotter months. If all I managed to do was fuck up my shroud then oh well, I tried.

[Dano]

why worry about 195?

if you remove the shroud and don't put in another fan you indeed went backwards.

[Easter Bunny]

Open is better while the car is moving.......

[Dano]

yes but do you see the little flappers? guess what they do when you're moving?

those were the precursors to Fords, and others "active flappers" on a lot of the newer models.

I really assumed he was adding an 8" fan over there.

[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by Dano yes but do you see the little flappers? guess what they do when you're moving? those were the precursors to Fords, and others "active flappers" on a lot of the newer models. I really assumed he was adding an 8" fan over there.

Im stupid. I have had the good fortune to not have a need to pull my shroud out. I take it back should be about the same on the highway

[Voltwings]

I'm aware of the tiny flappers and their function, but I've literally more than doubled the flow area in that spot now. I'm not worried about 195 ect's, but cooler is always better, so I'd be happy if they stayed in the 180s. adding another fan since I do only highway driving will do little to nothing, so worst case scenario with my mod here is I now have space for one anyways.

[blackms3_71]

Originally Posted by Voltwings I'm aware of the tiny flappers and their function, but I've literally more than doubled the flow area in that spot now. I'm not worried about 195 ect's, but cooler is always better, so I'd be happy if they stayed in the 180s. adding another fan since I do only highway driving will do little to nothing, so worst case scenario with my mod here is I now have space for one anyways.

So what Exactly are you doing? No questioning you just wondering bc i also believe cooler is better even if the temps are in normal ranges

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by blackms3_71 So what Exactly are you doing? No questioning you just wondering bc i also believe cooler is better even if the temps are in normal ranges

hoping that opening up the area for air to flow through at cruising will lower temps. each of those flappers is 1.6", with a roughly equal amount of dead space above and below. Theres also 2 or so inches of dead space on either side of them, and 4" of dead space below them at the bottom.

My understanding of those flaps, was to aid in warm up by keeping heat in the radiator at idle, as well as keeping the car warm in the winter months when the car is not on the throttle... Thats certainly not an issue we have here in Houston anyways so i figured id ditch them and see what happens.

[blackms3_71]

Originally Posted by Voltwings hoping that opening up the area for air to flow through at cruising will lower temps. each of those flappers is 1.6", with a roughly equal amount of dead space above and below. Theres also 2 or so inches of dead space on either side of them, and 4" of dead space below them at the bottom. My understanding of those flaps, was to aid in warm up by keeping heat in the radiator at idle, as well as keeping the car warm in the winter months when the car is not on the throttle... Thats certainly not an issue we have here in Houston anyways so i figured id ditch them and see what happens.

So all you did was cut that side out? And i dont believe even in cold weather that the flaps help "that" much

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by blackms3_71 So all you did was cut that side out? And i dont believe even in cold weather that the flaps help "that" much

pretty much. I got through about half of it with my dremel when it decided to die so the rest was done with a hack saw and dykes -_-. A little less than ideal if i'm honest, but we'll just have to wait and see i guess.

Me and @86azms3; were talking about doing this earlier in this thread if anyone remembers, i happened to have my intake manifold out today so decided to just go for it.

[blackms3_71]

Originally Posted by Voltwings pretty much. I got through about half of it with my dremel when it decided to die so the rest was done with a hack saw and dykes -_-. A little less than ideal if i'm honest, but we'll just have to wait and see i guess. Me and @86azms3; were talking about doing this earlier in this thread if anyone remembers, i happened to have my intake manifold out today so decided to just go for it.

Okay kool i will be waiting to see the results

[Tabasco69]

There is something else to consider when running a mix of water and surfactant like water wetter, this mix lack conditioners for seals and gaskets and cleaning agents, I wouldn't run it all of the time and I would do a thorough flush when swapping back to glycol for colder seasons

[86AmishMs3]

Originally Posted by Voltwings pretty much. I got through about half of it with my dremel when it decided to die so the rest was done with a hack saw and dykes -_-. A little less than ideal if i'm honest, but we'll just have to wait and see i guess. Me and @86azms3; were talking about doing this earlier in this thread if anyone remembers, i happened to have my intake manifold out today so decided to just go for it.

Yeah when I knew I was moving to PA and the fact it would take more then an hour, I was like fuck it. I sit at 183F while cruising now in PA instead of 210...so NCE

Basically voltwings is removing the shrouding which should lower the pressure after the radiator helping to create a bigger pressure differential between from and rear of the radiator allowing more ambient air to flow through. In the southern states, I don't think you need to worry about warm up times.

The only worry me and volt had was that when stopped it might reduce the efficiency of the fan now that the fan can pull air from the rear of the radiator instead of being forced through. But at speed this should help.

[Voltwings]

Well either i fail at burping the system or our cars just a bitch. Let the thing idle for a few minutes, Temps got up to about 190 and i decided that was good since there were no bubbles. Well, tonight was our "meet night" so between driving around various places i would check if there was still any air, and son of a bitch, opened that shit 3 times throughout the night and was greeted with a nice sturdy "hiss."

I figure the above is what lead to the interesting results below, so im going to jack the bitch up tomorrow and let it idle for like 10 minutes to make sure its fully purged and hopefully have a solid update. So far however, with it being between 85 and 90 tonight with like 90% humidity, the temps were mostly steady at 185 or so ... ok, not much different than before, but they would also tend to bounce as high as 190 and as low as 182. I figure the bouncing is due to the air in the system, because that was like 20 minutes straight at 65 mph, but before the temps would never get that low in this heat so hopefully this did something.

Going to try the bleed before my drive to work tomorrow morning ( i go in at 10:30 ) so hopefully i can have a good representation of what we're looking at. I can say though, that just sitting the car did not seem to heat up any faster, granted it wasnt exactly blazing outside.

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by Voltwings I'm aware of the tiny flappers and their function, but I've literally more than doubled the flow area in that spot now. I'm not worried about 195 ect's, but cooler is always better, so I'd be happy if they stayed in the 180s. adding another fan since I do only highway driving will do little to nothing, so worst case scenario with my mod here is I now have space for one anyways.

Cooler is NOT always better. For one, the engine oil needs to get hot enough to boil off the water and fuel in it. Second, running too cold will lead to inefficient combustion and reduced power.

IMHO, if you don't have detonation issues there is no need to run the engine cooler.

[udntknw]

Have you looked at the FSM for how to bleed the air from the coolant system?

just tappa it in...

[aggierandy]

Originally Posted by Voltwings Well either i fail at burping the system or our cars just a bitch. Let the thing idle for a few minutes, Temps got up to about 190 and i decided that was good since there were no bubbles. Well, tonight was our "meet night" so between driving around various places i would check if there was still any air, and son of a bitch, opened that shit 3 times throughout the night and was greeted with a nice sturdy "hiss."

Maybe I'm wrong here but I'm pretty sure, if you let the car get up to temp with the cap on, you will get the hiss. The system is designed to build pressure. You are just hearing that pressure release.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by silvapain Cooler is NOT always better. For one, the engine oil needs to get hot enough to boil off the water and fuel in it. Second, running too cold will lead to inefficient combustion and reduced power. IMHO, if you don't have detonation issues there is no need to run the engine cooler.

the coldest it ever gets here is like 30-40* ... occasionally. I dont think running too cold is MY problem, but good info none the less, thats not something i was aware of.

Originally Posted by aggierandy Maybe I'm wrong here but I'm pretty sure, if you let the car get up to temp with the cap on, you will get the hiss. The system is designed to build pressure. You are just hearing that pressure release.

It is designed to build pressure, and you may be right, but if the water or coolant isnt boiling then whats the "hiss" coming out? Has to be air right? I havent made it out to my car this morning, but ill check on the coolant level after having done it a few times last night.

[El_Diablo]

The hiss is the pressure built up by the radiator cap.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by El_Diablo The hiss is the pressure built up by the radiator cap.

well... i was kind of hoping air being in the system was the reason for my vastly differing ECT's but i guess i'll just have to spend a few more days watching them to see whats going on.